Tremaine Edmunds does not look lost; Frazier: “game is starting to slow down for him”

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

[Might Rather]

He"s a sure tackler also

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Yeah, I’m not worried about TE at all.  

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

One of the great TBD "too soon" over reactions was worrying about a 20 Y/O MLB looking lost. 

 

Once the game really slows down for him, and he's not thinking so much, we'll have ouselves a damn good player. He'll be hitting his prime at 24 Y/O...

[PlayoffsPlease]

2 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

One of the great TBD "too soon" over reactions was worrying about a 20 Y/O MLB looking lost. 

 

Once the game really slows down for him, and he's not thinking so much, we'll have ouselves a damn good player. He'll be hitting his prime at 24 Y/O...

Just as the rookie contract comes to its conclusion. 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

14 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Just as the rookie contract comes to its conclusion. 

 

That doesn't mean he won't be good until then. He very well could be a pro bowler player well before his rookie contract is up.

 

And how is that any different than any other player in the league? I'll tell you: he will be 2-3 years younger than those other players.

[PlayoffsPlease]

2 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

That doesn't mean he won't be good until then. He very well could be a pro bowler player well before his rookie contract is up.

 

And how is that any different than any other player in the league? I'll tell you: he will be 2-3 years younger than those other players.

I think you miss the point.  His age does not matter.  It will only make him more attractive to other teams (or more expensive to the Bills when the rookie contract is up).   You get a rookie for the life of the rookie contract, whether he is 20 or 23 at the start does not change that fact. 

[Utah John]

It's the same for all players and in all positions.  Teams hold on to a few of the draft picks from four years ago, the ones they really want to keep.  This year it looks like the keepers (past the end of the rookie contracts) will be Allen, Edmunds, and maybe Harrison.  How many from the past few drafts will they want to keep?  White, Milano, Dawkins...?  This dismal drafting performance will be good news in a couple of years when the Bills are able to let most of their subpar players walk, if they can get good offers elsewhere, or stay for low-end veteran contracts.  Teams that drafted better than Buffalo will have a much harder time keeping all their players moving off their rookie contracts.  The real crunch will start when the accumulated keeper players from several drafts in a row, all get to the new contract point at the same time. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Definite potential to be even better than Talley or Conlan were, based on what he brings to the table with his physical skillset--pair that with maturing linebacking smarts, and there's no ceiling for this guy anytime soon

[Roundybout]

6 minutes ago, Utah John said:

It's the same for all players and in all positions.  Teams hold on to a few of the draft picks from four years ago, the ones they really want to keep.  This year it looks like the keepers (past the end of the rookie contracts) will be Allen, Edmunds, and maybe Harrison.  How many from the past few drafts will they want to keep?  White, Milano, Dawkins...?  This dismal drafting performance will be good news in a couple of years when the Bills are able to let most of their subpar players walk, if they can get good offers elsewhere, or stay for low-end veteran contracts.  Teams that drafted better than Buffalo will have a much harder time keeping all their players moving off their rookie contracts.  The real crunch will start when the accumulated keeper players from several drafts in a row, all get to the new contract point at the same time. 

 

Dismal?

 

2017- 3/6 good to great to awesome starters

Tre

Dawkins

Milano 

 

2018- 

Allen

Edmunds

Phillips

Johnson

Neal 

 

Are all players that have had an impact already, and I'm not even counting Ray-Ray. That is a lot of solid players. Better than a lot of other teams. 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

42 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

I think you miss the point.  His age does not matter.  It will only make him more attractive to other teams (or more expensive to the Bills when the rookie contract is up).   You get a rookie for the life of the rookie contract, whether he is 20 or 23 at the start does not change that fact. 

 

Got ya. Not that big a deal to me, though. If you're trying to build through the draft, and he turns out to be an integral piece to success, pay the man. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

One of the great TBD "too soon" over reactions was worrying about a 20 Y/O MLB looking lost. 

 

Once the game really slows down for him, and he's not thinking so much, we'll have ouselves a damn good player. He'll be hitting his prime at 24 Y/O...

 

I also think an off season of adding about 20 pounds of muscle will make a huge difference too.  You hear that all the time about rookies, they come in their first season too weak.  It's even more compounded here as he's only 20 years old. 

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

The guy really looks like an athletic freak of nature out there. I don't think we have ever had a cover mlb like him and watching him develop will be a thing of beauty. The defense really is coming together if we could just get something consistent on the other side of the ball i think we can at least be competitive.

[LSHMEAB]

Edmunds has looked better every single time he's stepped on the field. That's what you want to see from a rookie.

 

Zero worries about this kid.

[US Egg]

.....and I found a shiny nickel on the sidewalk today Coach Frazier.

 

Yes son, things are looking good.

Edited October 2, 2018 by I am the egg man

[RobbRiddick]

He's really benefitted from having Allen drafted the same year. Fans would have been going nuts calling him a bust (the media too) if he'd been our only first rounder. Allen has pretty much soaked up all the attention and Edmunds has pretty much been left to just develop at his own pace.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Just as the rookie contract comes to its conclusion. 

 

He will be extended if he’s good. No question... unlesss they find a hidden gem elsewhere. 

 

They will build the d around him a la keukley  

Edited October 2, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 hour ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

Got ya. Not that big a deal to me, though. If you're trying to build through the draft, and he turns out to be an integral piece to success, pay the man. 

the thing that sucks is if Allen is the real deal, we have the Derek Carr , Khalil Mack situation , where you just can't afford both.  It may not make sense to trade up for two first rounders in the same draft for this reason. 

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Edmunds showing steady improvement.  Wait until he fills out

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I also think an off season of adding about 20 pounds of muscle will make a huge difference too.  You hear that all the time about rookies, they come in their first season too weak.  It's even more compounded here as he's only 20 years old. 

 

20 lbs of muscle is asking a lot IMO, but a year of NFL conditioning makes a difference.

11 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

the thing that sucks is if Allen is the real deal, we have the Derek Carr , Khalil Mack situation , where you just can't afford both.  It may not make sense to trade up for two first rounders in the same draft for this reason. 

 

Maybe, but a good GM makes it work. 

 

The Raiders really botched the whole Mack situation, and I doubt Edmunds will command #1 edge rusher money at MLB.

[mannc]

14 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

the thing that sucks is if Allen is the real deal, we have the Derek Carr , Khalil Mack situation , where you just can't afford both.  It may not make sense to trade up for two first rounders in the same draft for this reason. 

Let’s just hope we have that “problem.”

[FistingBot]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I also think an off season of adding about 20 pounds of muscle will make a huge difference too.  You hear that all the time about rookies, they come in their first season too weak.  It's even more compounded here as he's only 20 years old. 

 

He's already 6'5 250... you want him to play middle linebacker at 270???

[Ramza86]

Really glad to hear about his improvement after what we saw in preseason. 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

23 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

the thing that sucks is if Allen is the real deal, we have the Derek Carr , Khalil Mack situation , where you just can't afford both.  It may not make sense to trade up for two first rounders in the same draft for this reason. 

 

The difference is Mack is a pass rusher with a 100+ million dollar deal 

 

Kuechley is on a 5 year 61 million dollar deal and he is like the highest paid MLB

 

we can afford both 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

the thing that sucks is if Allen is the real deal, we have the Derek Carr , Khalil Mack situation , where you just can't afford both.  It may not make sense to trade up for two first rounders in the same draft for this reason. 

Terrifying thought.

 

What if Dawkins becomes a dominant LT? Even more frightening.

 

With all the doom and gloom, the dangers of having an elite LT, QB, and MLB is really being overlooked. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Terrifying thought.

 

What if Dawkins becomes a dominant LT? Even more frightening.

 

With all the doom and gloom, the dangers of having an elite LT, QB, and MLB is really being overlooked. 

That would really be awful. Good idea to be miserable about it now just in case it happens! Even moreso, imagine if more players are drafted by this regime that turn out great. They might want to ... *shudder*... sign them too. 

[Aussie Joe]

I would love to get a few of our recent draft picks onto second deals... 

 

It would mean at the very least the player doesn’t suck, and wants to stay here..

 

This would be a basic expectation to have of several of your picks, but this doesn’t seem to happen in Buffalo very often of late..

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

22 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

That would really be awful. Good idea to be miserable about it now just in case it happens! Even moreso, imagine if more players are drafted by this regime that turn out great. They might want to ... *shudder*... sign them too. 

 

FIRE EVERYONE NAU

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Terrifying thought.

 

What if Dawkins becomes a dominant LT? Even more frightening.

 

With all the doom and gloom, the dangers of having an elite LT, QB, and MLB is really being overlooked. 

You lost contact with original point.  Posters claiming there is some special edge because Edward is only 20.  It provides the Bills no short term or long term benefit over any other good player. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

That would really be awful. Good idea to be miserable about it now just in case it happens! Even moreso, imagine if more players are drafted by this regime that turn out great. They might want to ... *shudder*... sign them too. 

 

....turrible thought Yolo.....what is even more troubling is if the principal premise for some of McBeane's personnel moves is "getting rid of his guys (Whaley) for my guys".....didn't we let TrainWrecks get away with HIS fine whine about needing "his guys" which set this club back two years?......if this is McBeane's primary modis operandi, "we may be back to "F Troop" runnin' the show..........

Edited October 2, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[YoloinOhio]

17 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....turrible thought Yolo.....what is even more troubling is if the principal premise for some of McBeane's personnel moves is "getting rid of his guys (Whaley) for my guys".....didn't we let TrainWrecks get away with HIS fine whine about needing "his guys" which set this club back two years?......if this is McBeane's primary modis operandi, "we may be back to "F Troop" runnin' the show..........

Not sure what you mean exactly but I think you are greatly oversimplifying what a principle premise is, and using snark to lay shade toward what has to take place when you have two new systems on both sides of the ball and attempting to build a different culture . If you allow a regime time, there will be players drafted for their schemes, which in turn improves their chances of being successful in the nfl and contributing to the team, such in turn improves their chances of getting extended past their rookie deals. It’s called building through the draft. 

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

One of the great TBD "too soon" over reactions was worrying about a 20 Y/O MLB looking lost. 

 

Once the game really slows down for him, and he's not thinking so much, we'll have ouselves a damn good player. He'll be hitting his prime at 24 Y/O...

 

Funny how simple that is, but yet so complicated and hard for so many around here to understand.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not sure what you mean exactly but I think you are greatly oversimplifying what a principle premise is, and using snark to lay shade toward what has to take place when you have two new systems on both sides of the ball and attempting to build a different culture . If you allow a regime time, there will be players drafted for their schemes, which in turn improves their chances of being successful in the nfl and contributing to the team, such in turn improves their chances of getting extended past their rookie deals. It’s called building through the draft. 

 

...sorry for the confusion, so we'll try it again....you'll NEVER convince me that any Whaley holdovers were ALL "bad cultural people with ZERO talent" versus McBeane's moves being ALL "optimum cultural people WITH talent".....you're implying that "Whaley people" are all bad culturally with NO talent and that their NO TALENT branding is not a scheme fit...what did I miss here?....

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...sorry for the confusion, so we'll try it again....you'll NEVER convince me that any Whaley holdovers were ALL "bad cultural people with ZERO talent" versus McBeane's moves being ALL "optimum cultural people WITH talent".....you're implying that "Whaley people" are all bad culturally with NO talent and that their NO TALENT branding is not a scheme fit...what did I miss here?....

No, I actually didn’t. I alluded to both scheme AND culture fit. Not all were parted with, but those that were fell into either of those categories or they simply didn’t think they were good enough to warrant the money they wanted (Preston is an example). Likewise, they won’t end up keeping everyone they bring in, either. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[billsfan89]

5 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Dismal?

 

2017- 3/6 good to great to awesome starters

Tre

Dawkins

Milano 

 

2018- 

Allen

Edmunds

Phillips

Johnson

Neal 

 

Are all players that have had an impact already, and I'm not even counting Ray-Ray. That is a lot of solid players. Better than a lot of other teams. 

 

The Bills drafting in 2017 and 2018 has been really good so far on the early returns. In 2017 there looks to be 3 very legit starters. White is a number one corner, Dawkins a solid LT, and Milano a starting caliber linebacker. Even Zay Jones still has time to turn into a productive player. The early returns on 2018 are pretty promising. Allen the jury is still out but Edumonds is showing a lot of promise while Phillips and Johnson are off to good starts while Neal could also be a late round gem. 

 

Factoring out Allen for the moment the past two drafts could yield 6-7 starters (possibly 8 if Zay ever develops) that's pretty dam good drafting. Overall I am much more worried about the teams pro-personnel decision making than anything else. This team will need 4 or more impact free agents on the offensive side of the ball and while we have the cap space to make those moves I am not confident that money will be spent properly. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

7 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

One of the great TBD "too soon" over reactions was worrying about a 20 Y/O MLB looking lost. 

 

Everyone associated with this draft must be fired, cut or killed immediately. 

[BringBackOrton]

Put Tremaine at TE please.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 10/2/2018 at 2:18 PM, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

20 lbs of muscle is asking a lot IMO, but a year of NFL conditioning makes a difference.

 

Well I didn't literally mean 20 pounds but you got the idea!

On 10/2/2018 at 2:28 PM, October 1918 said:

 

He's already 6'5 250... you want him to play middle linebacker at 270???

 

No but convert 20 pounds of weight/fat into 20 pounds of muscle.  Basically an off-season year of conditioning and  year of gaining strength.

[BigDingus]

On 10/2/2018 at 10:28 AM, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

One of the great TBD "too soon" over reactions was worrying about a 20 Y/O MLB looking lost. 

 

Once the game really slows down for him, and he's not thinking so much, we'll have ouselves a damn good player. He'll be hitting his prime at 24 Y/O...

 

Let's home he hits his prime earlier than that, because around that time his contract will be expiring.

And if I know the Bills, they'd rather draft his replacement than extend him to a big contract. We got the nickname the "NFL's farm team" for a reason.... Or better yet, whatever new coach that comes into town could just start cutting all the old regime's talent in favor of "character guys." Either way, I'd be shocked if we had a great MLB in their prime & resigned them to a long term deal.