Rodak: Bills Should Explore Trades for McCoy and Benjamin

[ctk232]

Honestly, I'd take a second or third pick for shady at this point to open up cap and just have more drafted youth on the team. Love the guy and would hate to see him go, but he's not a long term solution, and don't think we'll be an actual contender in the league before he gets too old.

 

KB is an enigma, he was never great, but his hands were never really the issue with him. He's regressed since being traded last year, and his initial flash of hot hands and contesting jump balls is now gone. Did something happen? It's not like he's purposefully tanking his play to have another team sign him in FA, but I'd like to retain him as a WR2/3 option if his hands get better moving forward. I think he'll perform better in those matchups than against DB1s.

[BuffaloBillyG]

52 minutes ago, billykay said:

The Jets ?

What about them?

[bouds]

I agree with this but when Allen continues to fail everyone will give him a pass due to lack of talent, when Allen lacks talent himself.

 

I've seen enough of Allen to realize he's going to go 1 of 2 ways.  JP Losman, or Tyrod Taylor, that's his floor and ceiling respectively.

Edited October 1, 2018 by bouds

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, bouds said:

I agree with this but when Allen continues to fail everyone will give him a pass due to lack of talent, when Allen is lacks talent himself.

 

I've seen enough of Allen to realize he's going to go 1 of 2 ways.  JP Losman, or Tyrod Taylor, that's his floor and ceiling respectively.

 

This simply isn't true.  There's a difference between lack of talent and being raw. 

[Heavy Kevi]

I am very uncomfortable with this thread because I have never agreed with Rodak before, but yeah move these guys if anything resemblimg a fair trade offer comes in.

[bouds]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This simply isn't true.  There's a difference between lack of talent and being raw. 

That's fine, the kid has some athletic talent, arm strength, but lacks accuracy and has a history of poor decision making.  He lacks QB talent, he simply can't throw the ball to spots consistently, doesn't anticipate well, and his amateur history showed this to be true.

 

I'm done with him, I never liked the pick, you don't take someone with that kind of risk in the first round, your first rounders need to be starters, and Allen is as raw as they come.  You want to take a project QB that needs to sit, fine, do it on the 2nd day, not day 1, and certainly don't trade up for him.  He'll never develop here, and I doubt he would have developed anywhere.

Edited October 1, 2018 by bouds

[BuffaloBaumer]

One 7th for both of them is better than nothing. This team has such little talent that there is no reason to hang on to people who won't be here next year

Edited October 1, 2018 by BuffaloBaumer

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

45 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

When he was out yesterday,McD had Foster,Holmes and Jones on the field.Not one of those three belong on a NFL roster.

I agree I don't see anything promising as far as WR's go on this roster. I would rather try and develop a rookie from another teams PS than watch KB with a Bills jersey on.

[Heavy Kevi]

5 minutes ago, bouds said:

I agree with this but when Allen continues to fail everyone will give him a pass due to lack of talent, when Allen lacks talent himself.

 

I've seen enough of Allen to realize he's going to go 1 of 2 ways.  JP Losman, or Tyrod Taylor, that's his floor and ceiling respectively.

 

1 minute ago, bouds said:

That's fine, the kid has some athletic talent, arm strength, but lacks accuracy and has a history of poor decision making.  He lacks QB talent, he simply can't throw the ball to spots consistently, doesn't anticipate well, and his amateur history showed this to be true.

 

I'm done with him, I never liked the pick, you don't take someone with that kind of risk in the first round, your first rounders need to be starters, and Allen is as raw as they come.  You want to take a project QB that needs to sit, fine, do it on the 2nd day, not day 1, and certainly don't trade up for him.  He'll never develop here, and I doubt he would have developed anywhere.

 

Done with him?

 

Wow. That was quick. Imagine how many good QBs would never have been good if they were given up on 4 whole games into their career.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, bouds said:

That's fine, the kid has some athletic talent, arm strength, but lacks accuracy and has a history of poor decision making.  He lacks QB talent, he simply can't throw the ball to spots consistently, doesn't anticipate well, and his amateur history showed this to be true.

 

I'm done with him, I never liked the pick, you don't take someone with that kind of risk in the first round, your first rounders need to be starters, and Allen is as raw as they come.  You want to take a project QB that needs to sit, fine, do it on the 2nd day, not day 1, and certainly don't trade up for him.  He'll never develop here, and I doubt he would have developed anywhere.

 

I share many of the same concerns, but I'm very much willing to wait until his surrounding circumstances improve before "passing" any judgment. 

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, bouds said:

That's fine, the kid has some athletic talent, arm strength, but lacks accuracy and has a history of poor decision making.  He lacks QB talent, he simply can't throw the ball to spots consistently, doesn't anticipate well, and his amateur history showed this to be true.

 

I'm done with him, I never liked the pick, you don't take someone with that kind of risk in the first round, your first rounders need to be starters, and Allen is as raw as they come.  You want to take a project QB that needs to sit, fine, do it on the 2nd day, not day 1, and certainly don't trade up for him.  He'll never develop here, and I doubt he would have developed anywhere.

Door is thhhhhaaatttaway

Because that is the buffalo bills QB....dont like it....tough

[bouds]

Just now, Shotgunner said:

 

 

Done with him?

 

Wow. That was quick. Imagine how many good QBs would never have been good if they were given up on 4 whole games into their career.

Like I said, I hated the selection of Allen, complete reach job, almost as bad as EJ.  

 

This front office !@#$ed us this past offseason, they had all the tools available and they went mad.  I've watched football for 30 years, I know trash when I see it.  Allen was **** in college, he's going to be **** on a ****ty Bills team, and in all likelihood won't develop into a high tier QB.  Feel free to save my posts and throw them back at me if he ever develops, in the meantime I have no hope for him, kid will just be another on a long list.

[Stevie Ray]

And yet another thread devolves into an "Allen sucks" thread. Ridiculous.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

nobody is trading for shady and his $9 mil cap hit. this is his last year with the team. he will be cut after this season with 1 yr remaining on his contract.

 

nobody is trading for KB unless we include draft picks with less coming back. he will not be resigned by the bills next season as a free agent 

 

in the meantime, both need more targets

KB leads the team in targets.  He's 4th in receptions 

 

I put this in the Week 5 prep thread 

 

K Benjamin 21 targets  7 catches 33.3% catch rate

 

Zay Jones 17 targets 10 catches 58.8% catch rate

 

Charles Clay 14 targets 8 catches 57.1% catch rate

 

Shady   13 targets 8 catches 58.8% catch rate

 

Andre Holmes 12 targets 6 catches50.0% catch rate

Jason Croom 9 targets 6 catches 66.7% catch rate

[Heavy Kevi]

2 minutes ago, bouds said:

Like I said, I hated the selection of Allen, complete reach job, almost as bad as EJ.  

 

This front office !@#$ed us this past offseason, they had all the tools available and they went mad.  I've watched football for 30 years, I know trash when I see it.  Allen was **** in college, he's going to be **** on a ****ty Bills team, and in all likelihood won't develop into a high tier QB.  Feel free to save my posts and throw them back at me if he ever develops, in the meantime I have no hope for him, kid will just be another on a long list.

 

I don't care enough to throw these posts back at you, I would be too happy watching a successful Josh Allen.

 

I get it, he sucked in college. Nobody even disputed that. He's a guy everyone knew was a risk but you pick him because the cieling is so high. You didn't like that and that's fine, but people should not be surprised about how he is playing when all along the narrative was he needs time. I don't know why anybody thought a guy who was projected to take years to develop would be great on a roster down to the studs at square one.

 

So, in a way I agree, he's not going to be good this year on a team with no talent, but the assertion that he is predestined to suck forever is not one that I subscribe to.

[Phils n Bills]

I’d like to see shady traded for the benefit of shady. He’s been a warrior with the bills. He deserves to go to a contender where he can finish his career strong, not stay with a team who feels 5 touches is plenty. KB can join the Arena league so his fat arse doesn’t have to run as much 

[bouds]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I share many of the same concerns, but I'm very much willing to wait until his surrounding circumstances improve before "passing" any judgment. 

I respect you homie, and anyone else who feels that way, and I don't want to **** on anyone who feels this way, I try to stay out of the debate as much as I can, but I feel like I've seen this before and I'm making a decision based on my passed experiences.

 

I won't actively cheer for Allen's demise, I'll cheer for him, but I know how this story will end.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, bouds said:

I respect you homie, and anyone else who feels that way, and I don't want to **** on anyone who feels this way, I try to stay out of the debate as much as I can, but I feel like I've seen this before and I'm making a decision based on my passed experiences.

 

I won't actively cheer for Allen's demise, I'll cheer for him, but I know how this story will end.

 

5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

His pre-snap diagnosis, pocket presence (backing up, spinning, drifting, and internal clock), progressing through reads to trust what he sees, and the inability to manipulate coverage with his eyes are all significant problem areas at this juncture.  Add in the lack of a supporting cast and it only exacerbates these issues even further.

 

I wouldn't have selected him, but as a fan of the team I'll continue to hope for the best.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

If anyone looks at this year's tape on Benjamin and his injury history, they'd pass on the kid for sure.    Honestly what does he do better than any other receiver already on your team?  Block?  Get separation?  Hands?  React to blitzes by shortening his route and offering a quick target to his qb?   

 

He's living off the first two years in the league when he looked like a good draft pick.   He looks like a washed up bust now.

 

Shady would have some trade value but we'll be using him more this season or Daboll will be fired.

 

 

 

Hes an “if a super bowl contender loses a pair of starters at WR, he’ll fetch a day 3 pick and save us some money” type right now 

[Domdab99]

Our rookie QB needs MORE skilled position players around to help him, not fewer. 

 

One to make sure Josh Allen doesn't improve the way we want him to, is to get rid of probably the two players he trusts the most in this anemic offense. 

 

Yeah, I'm aware Benjamin is stinking up the joint, but until we get a reasonable replacement, cutting or trading him for a draft pick would be a bad idea.

[Gigs]

4 hours ago, PeterDude said:

They'd be lucky to get a 6th for McCoy and a bag of chips for KB.  It might be a bit too late...

2 bags of chips; we all know KB will eat one of them at minimum

[wppete]

4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

No sh#! Rodak! This guy is a tool. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by wppete

[Nihilarian]

Can we trade away Daboll and Castillo instead? 

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Both McCoy and Benjamin should be shopped. If we could get a second and a thirds I would happy at this point.  I would also shop Shaq and Star. If we could get a 4th and a fifth I would be ecstatic as they both look mediocre, at best.

 

[RPbillsfan]

2 hours ago, bouds said:

Like I said, I hated the selection of Allen, complete reach job, almost as bad as EJ.  

 

This front office !@#$ed us this past offseason, they had all the tools available and they went mad.  I've watched football for 30 years, I know trash when I see it.  Allen was **** in college, he's going to be **** on a ****ty Bills team, and in all likelihood won't develop into a high tier QB.  Feel free to save my posts and throw them back at me if he ever develops, in the meantime I have no hope for him, kid will just be another on a long list.

Go root for some other team and get off this board

[NewEraBills]

2 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Our rookie QB needs MORE skilled position players around to help him, not fewer. 

 

One to make sure Josh Allen doesn't improve the way we want him to, is to get rid of probably the two players he trusts the most in this anemic offense. 

 

Yeah, I'm aware Benjamin is stinking up the joint, but until we get a reasonable replacement, cutting or trading him for a draft pick would be a bad idea.

1

 

He needs more than that.  He's young, but he's going to have to stop the hero ball and understand it's a double edge sword.  Sometimes he helps his team when he's successful with it, but he hurts the team when he's not successful with it.  It's gotta be tough for him.  People want him to trust the protection and step up in the pocket, but damn, it's tough to do that when you've seen the ass of those guys almost clip your knees because they are getting thrown around.  The poise is not there right now.  He's trying to do way too much and that shows up big on a team that actually needs someone to do way too much.  I will continue to root for him, but like others, I was against the pick for the Bills.  I thought if he is to thrive he would need a better situation than the one he stepped into here.

 

I've grown to really like Allen.  I like his attitude.  I like his apparent work ethic.  Hopefully, he can harness his rawness into something special.

You know you've hit rock bottom when the Browns offense looks far superior compared to what you are rooting for an watching.

Edited October 1, 2018 by NewEraBills

[mead107]

Keep them

[MDH]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This simply isn't true.  There's a difference between lack of talent and being raw. 

 

On the flip side there's more to having talent than simply having a big arm and being mobile. "Talent" at the QB position has more to do with quickly processing information, having pocket awareness and getting the ball to the WR accurately and on time. It's not simply who is the biggest, strongest, fastest guy at the position.

 

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I share many of the same concerns, but I'm very much willing to wait until his surrounding circumstances improve before "passing" any judgment. 

 

Yeah, this is the boat I'm in.

 

Personally, I'd like them to just sit him this year even if it means we all have to suffer through Peterman at QB the entire year. Get him some weapons and an OL this offseason and give him two years starting to develop. Right now they've simply thrown him to the wolves and it's the last thing you want to do with a developmental QB. He wasn't ready to start if he had a solid surrounding cast. As it is he has the worst surrounding cast in the NFL. 

11 minutes ago, mead107 said:

Keep them

 

Yeah, Allen has very little help as it is and people want to get rid of two of his best weapons? And yeah, I realize with Benjamin that's not saying much atm, but it's true nonetheless.

[MDH]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

They can't do that. 

 

Sending out Peterman again would be criminal. He shouldn't be in the league. No idea why he's still on the team. 

 

They jumped the gun trading McCarron and now they are forced to play Allen. 

 

Then get a vet - any vet - in here even if you have to trade a low round pick to get it done. It's better than sending Allen out there when he's not ready and the team around him isn't ready either.

[4_kidd_4]

 Benjamin is a “take anything you can get” situation, imo.

 

McCoy may have more value as we get closer to the deadline and injuries start to pile up for contenders. Might be able to turn the right situation into a 3rd or a pair of later round picks for his rental services.

 

I’m definitely into moving both of them if we can.

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 Benjamin is a “take anything you can get” situation, imo.

 

McCoy may have more value as we get closer to the deadline and injuries start to pile up for contenders. Might be able to turn the right situation into a 3rd or a pair of later round picks for his rental services.

 

I’m definitely into moving both of them if we can.

 

I AGREE WIT DAT MANE. THAT'S TOTALLY HOW I FEEL IN MY MIND, BODY, AND SOUL!

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Normally don't put much stock in anything that Rodak puts out there (his articles are usually ghost-written by Captain Obvious for starters), but I'm listening...

3 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Our rookie QB needs MORE skilled position players around to help him, not fewer. 

 

One to make sure Josh Allen doesn't improve the way we want him to, is to get rid of probably the two players he trusts the most in this anemic offense. 

 

Yeah, I'm aware Benjamin is stinking up the joint, but until we get a reasonable replacement, cutting or trading him for a draft pick would be a bad idea.

I know it's a pipe dream, but would you still feel the same way if they were traded for semi-decent offensive linemen who could instantly buy JA an extra .5 to 1 second in the pocket? 

[BillsMafia828]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Door is thhhhhaaatttaway

Because that is the buffalo bills QB....dont like it....tough

Agreed! Emotions were high and expectations were elevated after a great week three. The kid has the skill AND the heart to be an exceptional professional. He will make others around him better, an attribute of a leader.

[tcampbell104]

nobody is going to give anything for a thirty year old rb with a 9 million dollar cap hit

[GrizzReaper]

Shady can still run our retarded OC and turnstile OL arent doing the guy any favors. Personally I hope they trade him and he gets to ball out these final years he's wasting talent on this team.

 

KB you'll be lucky to get that 7th from the Coleman deal back. He's probably the most dissapointing player this year behind Vontae Davis and before Zay Jones for me... 

[stinky finger]

6 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

Rodak is probably the leading "forward thinker" of this era IMO................

 

Rodak moment?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

There is no doubt in my mind that Beane can find a sucker...uh...team to give up even a 5th or 6th for Benjamin. He has 2 good years, size and other teams can say "Yea, Buffalo doesnt know how to use WRs." Someone would take a chance on him. 

 

McCoy in my opinion is a guy that teams may look at as a 1 or 2 year rental himself. Philly was rumored to be sniffing around for a Bell trade, but they had intrest in bringing Shady back last year. I can see them inquiring again this year.

 

Wood, Watkins, Goodwin.... I think narrative/excuse can sell 

 

plenty of evidence to point to! 

 

Jordan Matthews, maybe Hogan? 

 

Seriously, Buffalo really may not know how to use WRs

Edited October 1, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[The Red King]

People already writing Allen off obviously never saw Aikman or Eli's first seasons.

 

Back on topic, Rodak is an idiot.  This is a guy that last year said the Bills' season was over before it started, then we broke the drought.  That being said, as much as it pains me to admit, I agree with him.  Benji is a waste, and we're not making a championship run, so why not give Shady a chance elsewhere, assuming the price is right.  Buffalo's offensive line is an outright tire fire that is not helping Allen or Shady, and it's not getting fixed this year.

[Domdab99]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Normally don't put much stock in anything that Rodak puts out there (his articles are usually ghost-written by Captain Obvious for starters), but I'm listening...

I know it's a pipe dream, but would you still feel the same way if they were traded for semi-decent offensive linemen who could instantly buy JA an extra .5 to 1 second in the pocket? 

 

Maybe...but who is going to throw to? Andre Holmes?  Getting rid of KB would actually DECREASE this team's speed. that's how bad it is. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I hope we keep Shady until he retires. He is the best skill position player we have had since the Super Bowl teams. I wish we would give him the ball almost every single play. We are doing ourselves a disservice by wasting him in his final prime years. KB I couldn’t care less about. I was real excited for him to get here...He sucks and he’s lazy. I literally can’t stand a single WR that we have and if every single one was replaced tomorrow, I wouldn’t care.