Every throw from Josh Allen’s 1st start

[Gugny]

30 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

I have mentioned this but here it is again

 

More accuracy especially to the 2 throws to wide open WR's where the ball was thrown low and behind. Of the 2 INT's one was very ill advised throw and the other was very underthrown. I can accept INT's but the 2 he threw were very bad decisions IMO, and both very preventable.

 

He needs to identify matchups better.. This is something that can happen with experience, but he did miss a few wide open receivers while scanning only 1 side of the field.

 

 

 

 

 

Last word

 

 

 

 

Call me crazy, but I think those are pretty high expectations for a rookie QB on a team that allows 28 points in the first half - or even for a rookie, in general.  We had a guy in his 7th year missing receivers on every drive of every game.

 

I think Josh Allen deserves more time than a week to work on the things you're concerned about.

[Misterbluesky]

39 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

What, exactly, do you expect from a kid making his first NFL start?

Let's not forget about the CFL level type players he's on the field with.

[BananaB]

Considering we probably have the worst offensive squad in the league Allen played pretty well.  

 

If you are worried after one game your expectations are kind of ridiculous. Rookies make mistakes, that’s just how it is. Now it’s all about Josh improving on them.  

[Kelly the Dog]

We weathered an entire season of glaring mistakes and excuses from a rookie with Zay Jones and now he is our #2 WR.

 

I think Josh gets a little time to show let alone master the 25 or so different things you need to do to excel at the hardest position to play in all of team sports in the world. One where at any one time, only about a dozen veterans ever excel at in that world.

[Foxx]

36 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

There are things that come into play when identifying these things

 

On some of those throws where he missed open receivers.....he had immediate pressure in his face.....the commentator for the bills game was driving me nuts with his over anaylztion of Josh's throws......

 

"He really needs to take some chances"

"He really should have not thrown that ball"

WTF

 

"There was a receiver open" (totally dismissing the fact that he had free pass rusher bearing down on him on the play

 

There were things that Josh didnt do in the game that were on him.....but you can easily contribute those things to being a rookie.....rookies dont play like vet guys most of the time.

i wouldn't let anything Steve Buerlein has to say bother me.

[PeterDude]

He's inconsistent, just what the pre-draft scouting suggested.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

i wouldn't let anything Steve Buerlein has to say bother me.

The Steve Buerlein that took ten years before he was mediocre?

[Batman1876]

He looked like a rookie.  But that tells you nothing. Growth vs stagnation is the name of the game. If he stays this guy forever he's a bust. If he improves then hes not. Simple as that.  I'm encouraged because he has traits that often go hand in hand with being able to improve. But it's all a mystery. 

 

I would say that "being concerned "by his performance simply means that you are too easily concerned.  

[K-9]

1 hour ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Yes, but your observation isn't taking into account that it's his first start. you're grading him as if he's a veteran. so it's disingenuous.

 

"im very concerned at this junction" 

 

What junction? the first game he's ever played? you say that phrase when it's like year two and he's not leading WRs. you're being a contrarian. 

Conjunction junction. That’s what junction.

[BillsfanAZ]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

 

2 passes to wide open receivers thrown way off target. Would of liked to see him throw and accurate passes here. He had time he just made piss poor throws to them

 

More than few very inaccurate thrown incompletions

 

2 INT's that were very poorly poorly thrown footballs and one of them should of been thrown out of bounds. The other was underthrown. Not an end all but not encouraging either.

 

Hopefully he is a quick learner and these things fade away quickly.  

 

What do I expect.. improvement

 

 

I think you are being hyper critical. It was his first start against a good defense. Darnold is considered the more polished QB and he struggled against the Dolphins. Darnold made several nice throws but he also overthrew wide open WR's including one in the endzone for a sure TD. Most of the time he had time in the pocket to make his throws. The picks Darnold threw were from a clean pocket even though Pryor took the blame for one of the INT's. 

 

https://nypost.com/2018/09/16/jets-receiver-takes-all-the-blame-for-killer-sam-darnold-int/

[John from Riverside]

55 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

I hope he gets much better quickly. His inaccuracy was a concern, and a concern we have all had the moment he was drafted. I saw inaccuracy a little too often and it worries me at this junction .  

He definately should be looking like a franchise QB in that 1st start

23 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The Steve Buerlein that took ten years before he was mediocre?

But he was a pro QB!

 

That means fans should take everything he is saying as gospel....:)

 

The commentators that are former players of the position that are critical without calling out all the things that go with it frustrate me.....

 

"Josh should have made the play there"  (Hey Steve....YOU didnt when you were playing)

 

"Josh needs to be aggressive here".....immediately followed by "Josh should not have made that throw"  WHICH ONE IS IT

 

"Josh needs to see that open reciever" (the receiver was BARELY open and the pass rush was barely down on him by the time he was (talking about the Zay Jones play)

[K-9]

Dude is strong. I didn’t realize how many steps he dragged Ingraham on his first INT. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, K-9 said:

Dude is strong. I didn’t realize how many steps he dragged Ingraham on his first INT. 

Josh Allen is definately a horse.....

 

Farmwork will do that

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Dude is strong. I didn’t realize how many steps he dragged Ingraham on his first INT. 

Reminded me of a young Big Ben 

[Kelly the Dog]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Dude is strong. I didn’t realize how many steps he dragged Ingraham on his first INT. 

And huge. And pretty nimble for his size. He's just a player like no other and needs to be looked at as such. Not saying he is automatically going to be great or even good. But he is unique, and going by stats or what he does not do well that a lot of other QBs do have to take in other factors of what he does better than them.

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

He's a raw rookie.  Saw some good things, saw some bad. Just what you'd expect in his first NFL action.  Way too soon to make career projections. More important is the context of his performance.  No running game, no O-line, no receivers, no defense (at least in first half).  An interesting thought experiment-replace JA with Tom Brady yesterday.  How does Brady do with that context? I assume better, but how much better?

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

And huge. And pretty nimble for his size. He's just a player like no other and needs to be looked at as such. Not saying he is automatically going to be great or even good. But he is unique, and going by stats or what he does not do well that a lot of other QBs do have to take in other factors of what he does better than them.

He needs to “learn” the game and he is certainly smart enough to do that. And continue to work on his lower body mechanics. In the meantime, I’m going to enjoy watching his progression as he makes this team his. I was very impressed with his leadership on the sideline yesterday and it speaks well that KW was, too.

[B-Large]

Homeboy moves around the pocket nicely, and seems to keep his eyes downfield more often than not.  I hope they work on his mechanics and help be the most accurate he can be, because there we're some throws that were' to easy to miss.

 

Imagine if he had a better O-line and a few NFL receivers to throw to...

[Foxx]

previously i was critical of Josh's second interception. after watching all the throws, i may be off in that estimation. while his footwork was not perfect, it may have been more of a miscommunication with the receiver. you can see Josh throws it where had the receiver broke out instead of up, he would have probably hit the receiver.

[BeginnersMind]

When Allen went under center for his 7th time in the game, it was 14-0. 

 

Let's try to avoid that in the future. 

 

Allen looked like a high pick rookie QB. Some good, some bad. We are all going to see better and worse this season. 

 

The problem is that he has no line, no running game, no WRs. And probably no defense. 

 

But besides that Mrs Lincoln, how was the show?

Edited September 17, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[Juice_32]

4 minutes ago, Foxx said:

previously i was critical of Josh's second interception. after watching all the throws, i may be off in that estimation. while his footwork was not perfect, it may have been more of a miscommunication with the receiver. you can see Josh throws it where had the receiver broke out instead of up, he would have probably hit the receiver.

 

A few of the short misses smelled of this too. He had one in particular to Ivory that looked like a bad throw at first glance, but it was just a miscommunication. Ivory squatted and JA expected him to keep moving into space. This happened at least one other time where he threw the ball exactly where he wanted but the receiver wasn't in the spot. Time and reps will cure misses like this.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Juice_32

[Fadingpain]

Watching all his throws one on top of the other, you appreciate just how wild and unpredictable his accuracy is.

 

It is all over the place.  

 

I thought the best ball he threw all game was the fairly long pass to Charles Clay on the Chargers 20 yard line.  Clay was wide open by at least 5 yards and standing still when Allen threw the ball, and he threw a strike.  That is the type of wide open, standing receiver Tyrod would throw to as well.

 

His big pass to Zay Jones (that Jones bobbled and almost dropped) was under thrown by 10 yards.  It was so badly thrown that the DB was out of position by the time the ball arrived and on top of it, the DB decided to stop playing defense for a while.  Very strange play.  If that throw is repeated 9 more times, it is probably intercepted 5 times.

 

Even on short dump offs, ball placement is just awkward enough to make the receiver work to catch the ball and often have to be put off stride or off balance in order to make the catch.  A few throws featured such awkward (but perhaps catchable) ball placement that the receiver in fact did not catch the ball.

 

Folks around here are not seeing what is on the field yet.  That is because we are desperate for a Messiah, we know we gave up a lot of value to get Josh, and we can see he is big and has a strong arm.  He looks the part of a real QB.

 

Eventually, his accuracy issues, inability to read defenses, hesitation in throwing, and unwillingness to throw receivers open or anticipate open receivers before they are open will catch up to him.

 

It took a while for most folks here to want to replace Tyrod too.  

 

Josh needs to greatly improve the weaknesses in his game, and the narrative that he had already addressed them with improved footwork is not accurate IMO.

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Kelly the Dog]

It's really difficult to say that his bomb to Josh was 10 yards too short when it was 64 yards in the air moving to his left. I suppose if you think a QB can throw a ball 75 yards in the air right on the money moving to his left under a rush, you have a good point.

 

The DB had to play catch up because he never thought the ball would be coming. He had no real chance to get the ball that was short, only Zay did who saw it coming. Not a bad ball at all.

[Billsfan1972]

Seeing a lot of conversation as expected about his play, but that TD pass was a beauty and been a while since we've seen one zipped in like that.

 

Again I'll be an optimist until proven otherwise as he was a high first round pick and can't afford for him to be a disaster.

 

Would be nice if he had some receivers.  

 

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Yes, and as much as we (I) rag on Benjamin, he jumped up, knowing he was going to get cracked, and took it!  Great catch

[YoloinOhio]

I loved how Clay went and got the ball for him so he could keep it 

[dave mcbride]

great play overall. 

[MAJBobby]

The best thing about Allen yesterday was running over to Sideline after Ivroy’s TD and firing up the Defense. 

 

Leadership Qualities (you have them or your dont). Rest can be coached 

[zow2]

Yeah i liked the TD pass and catch.  Too many people are trying to tell me today that Allen racked up all his stats in a garbage time drive and one under-thrown ball to Zay. 

 

 

[White Linen]

From the looks of it - he's gained the respect of his teammates rather quickly.  He showed me a lot Sunday.  

 

He's tough as hell and doesn't get rattled.  

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

The best thing about Allen yesterday was running over to Sideline after Ivroy’s TD and firing up the Defense. 

 

Leadership Qualities (you have them or your dont). Rest can be coached 

I liked that too. You can tell he’s used to leading a team.

[Nick the Greek]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

What, exactly, do you expect from a kid making his first NFL start?

To play like Darnold did in his first start? Second did look as good tho so growing pains to be expected. 

[RobbRiddick]

3 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Yes, but your observation isn't taking into account that it's his first start. you're grading him as if he's a veteran. so it's disingenuous.

 

"im very concerned at this junction" 

 

What junction? the first game he's ever played? you say that phrase when it's like year two and he's not leading WRs. you're being a contrarian. 

I think he means 'juncture'. He must be a rookie.

[CardinalScotts]

as a Bills fan who is in this struggle with all of us I still have to ask

 

why are we so stupid?

[Roundybout]

Just now, CardinalScotts said:

as a Bills fan who is in this struggle with all of us I still have to ask

 

why are we so stupid?

 

huh

[YoloinOhio]

 

[CardinalScotts]

2 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

huh

our whining, complaining, crying- how does mcbean lose your faith 18 games in ? after a playoff year i dont get it

the talent level on this team is not high enough you cant get everything taken care of in one year

despite what jarhead white claims on wgr- there a reason he's not in the nfl in any capacity

Edited September 17, 2018 by CardinalScotts

[starrymessenger]

35 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Seeing a lot of conversation as expected about his play, but that TD pass was a beauty and been a while since we've seen one zipped in like that.

 

Again I'll be an optimist until proven otherwise as he was a high first round pick and can't afford for him to be a disaster.

 

Would be nice if he had some receivers.  

 

 

 

Actually it hasn't been a while. Flame throwing a dart accurately through a narrow window is something JA has always been pretty good at. We saw him do it  in the Panthers game (to Ray Ray), the Browns (to Streater), the Bengals (to Benjamin) and again yesterday vs Chargers (Benji again). It's a tough throw and it's great that he can make it. But it's also part of the problem. Too many of his intermediate and deeper throws are ropes with not enuf air under them (like the under thrown  pass to Clay yesterday). Taking the pedal off the metal without sacrificing quickness of release and accuracy is what he must learn to do. Getting to better know his WRs and improving his field vision and anticipation are also on the list. The pass to Ray Ray vs the Panthers was great but he had at least one much easier read if he had been able to recognize it (don't recall who the WR was).

[2003Contenders]

There was plenty to like and plenty to dislike in the performance yesterday. The sample size is simply too small to come up with a genuine evaluation going forward. And guess, what? That sample size will still be too small after next week and the week after. The kid is going to need time to develop -- not only because he is a rookie and everyone needs to be patient, but because he also has a horrible supporting cast.

 

I look back at our last two first-round QBs.

 

1. Losman. From day one, he never looked ready. The stage seemed too large for him, and he had that proverbial deer-in-the-headlights look. But the arm talent and athleticism seemed to be there, so I kept hoping that over time, he would improve but he never appreciably did. He had flaws (ability to read a defense, poor accuracy, etc.) that he never corrected, and that deer-in-the-headlights syndrome never went away. Say what you will about Allen and any shortcomings he displayed in yesterday's game, but he never had that "Where the heck am I?" look that we saw all to often with Losman.

 

2. It is easy to forget that EJ actually looked halfway decent in his first two starts (against the Pats and Panthers) respectively. The problem is that those first two games would represent more of a high-water mark for him rather than the start of something great. The QB position is the most unique position in all of sports. You really have to be born to play the position -- all the while improving your craft as you go along. EJ had all of the physical traits and by all accounts he is a bright guy with leadership qualities. But for whatever reason, these ingredients never meshed to make him a natural QB. Everything always seemed so rehearsed and unnatural. Again, with Allen yesterday he did look very natural standing in the pocket.

 

So there is hope. He clearly has all of the physical tools. I also like that he also seemed confident and did not panic while standing in the pocket. If he can correct the deficiencies, then we have something special here. Time will tell whether he will be able to improve in those areas -- but after one, seriously ONE, NFL start it is hard for me to understand why anyone would be CONCERNED. Progress is the key here. As long as we see progression, even if they are baby steps, there is plenty of reason for optimism. Anyone who can't see that either has a silly agenda to root against the kid -- or has unreasonable expectations about what he should be able to do this early in his career.