Questions about 2018 Roster

[Tatonka68]

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

[ddaryl]

We need ot see the product on the field because every single one of those questions is still a question IMO

[Kirby Jackson]

I’m not sure that even the Bills are as optimistic as you are. I think that long-term the QB play is better but it is likely to be worse this year. The RB position is a year older running behind a worse OL. The pass catchers are the same as they were before, bad. 

 

The defense should improve. They have a chance to be good. This team looks like it takes a step back to me. I’m fine with that as long as Allen is the guy.

[elltrain22]

Problem with that is, IMHO, our offensive line is ALOT worse, and I can see this really making passing & running difficult. We really need to bolster this unit in order for offense to do damage. 

[SMAKCruiser]

I think the D will be a lot better, but I think this offense is going to be complete garbage.   

[BuffaloHokie13]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not sure that even the Bills are as optimistic as you are. I think that long-term the QB play is better but it is likely to be worse this year. The RB position is a year older running behind a worse OL. The pass catchers are the same as they were before, bad. 

 

The defense should improve. They have a chance to be good. This team looks like it takes a step back to me. I’m fine with that as long as Allen is the guy.

Pretty much where I'm at.

QB: Worse

RB: Same

WR: Same

OL: Worse

DL: Better

LB: Same

DB: Same

[JerseyBills]

28 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

I've been saying something similar. Why are we lowering expectations based on the same negative nonsense that we said this time last year? 

But it's all good, they'll feel disrespected again, and use it as motivation on route to 10 wins.

[Soda Popinski]

I can't wait to find out. 

[Captain Hindsight]

I think they stayed the same in most aspects. This isn't a stacked roster by any means. It doesn't have a ton of depth but the starters are solid at most positions. Oline and WR are weak to average. 

 

 This year will be interesting because if Josh Allen plays like they hope he can, the team could look a lot better quick. If he struggles or needs more time, it could be a rough year. 

 

I think they are trending upward long term however. I feel as good about the direction the team is heading in as I have in a long time. Feels like an actual plan in place now as opposed to, lets try this or that for this season. a 5 year plan instead of a one year plan

[DCOrange]

38 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

 

From this perspective, I'm just focusing on the short-term since you're putting it in the context of whether or not this team will be better this year:

 

1. Worse

2. Same

3. Worse

4. Worse

5. Better

6. Same or slightly better

7. Worse

 

On top of this, I don't think Buffalo was really a 9 win team last year. I'd say they played like a 7ish win team and are probably worse this year.

[Antonio]

I think we still hava an 7-9 to 10-6 roster, it will all depend on who the offense can adapt to the new OC, who the o-line gel together. I trust the defense will keep us in a lot of games, but the Offense needs to step up.

[billsredneck1]

44 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

i wouldn't poopoo the oline just yet. i know it takes time to jell, but if we went dawkins, groy or teller, bodine, miller, newhouse..

we could be fine. i don't think groy will be a huge drop off and may be even slightly above average and i think bodine/wood is a wash. newhouse should be an upgrade at rt.

[Seanbillsfan2206]

33 minutes ago, elltrain22 said:

Problem with that is, IMHO, our offensive line is ALOT worse, and I can see this really making passing & running difficult. We really need to bolster this unit in order for offense to do damage. 

I really don’t think it’s going to be as bad as people are saying. Losing Glenn really doesn’t affect anything. He’s barely played the last couple seasons. Dawkins stepped in and did awesome last year. Incognito was on the downslope of his career. He’s 34 years old and maybe had one more year left. I loved Eric Wood but he was pretty average. We signed Jeff Bodine in the offseason to play center and we also have Groy who has been a very solid backup for us. 

[Best Player Available]

59 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

Only disagreement here is #3. IMO the wide receiver group is worse. Not expecting anything from draft picks #6 and #7. I believe on of them was a charity pick by Beane since he knows the kid foreever. Maybe they Could have got those guys as udfa's. 

Jones to date is a trainwreck. Benjamin may or may not make it through the season. Ditto Charles Clay. No speed on the outside. Unless one of the very medicore free agent signings lights it up. What are the chances of that? 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

How can you answer when so much is unknown? There has been so much turnover. True, we didn't go out and sign any free agent studs. But let's wait until we get a look at the new kids in practice.

[prissythecat]

1 hour ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

 

The ceiling of the QB roster (ie Allen)  may be better. But as others have pointed out,  QB performance for this coming season is a big question mark and may actually be worse.   I know I am not going to hold my breath with McCarron.   Wouldn't be surprised if he stinks up the joint.

[LeGOATski]

51 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Pretty much where I'm at.

QB: Worse

RB: Same

WR: Same

OL: Worse

DL: Better

LB: Same

DB: Same

Agree. A lot of sames. Much unknown.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

 

I'll answer that question...  Because we're not very good - even if we're better.

Both our offense and defense were ranked in the bottom half of the league last year.   Timely take-aways and minimal turnovers gave us a winning record.  

 

We can't count on the getting take-aways at critical times this year.

[yungmack]

Little early to make those conclusions, I'd say.

[John from Riverside]

I think how well we do will directly translate to the turnovers we create.

 

Not much pass rush last year yet our secondary was awesome.....now our secondary is awesome and we have some potential to be much better in getting after the QB and stopping the run so perhaps the winning of the turnover battle doesnt dry up on us like it did last year?

 

I expect us to run the ball....a lot....if we are gonna do that I REALLY hope we platoon our backs so that Ivory takes some of the punishment.

[Ramza86]

1 hour ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

 

Competition.

 

We dont know if the QB position will be better this year.

A QB is very limited with a poor Oline. Especially an immobile one. 

 

Hate Tyrod all you want...but he was able to move the sticks with his legs and mask a lot of the poor offensive line play.

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

I remember a year ago a lot of people crying about how bad the secondary was going to be..

 

Lets see what happens..

Edited May 8, 2018 by Aussie Joe

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

2 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

 

I think maybe you're putting too much thought into "upgrading talent" and not enough thought into the lack of experience of that talent. In year one, I wouldn't expect guys like Allen and Edmunds to come in and instantly improve the production at those positions.

 

Edmunds has the talent, much more so than Preston Brown, and is a great fit for this defense, but he's very young. Brown may have had physical limitations, but he was the "QB" on defense each year. Edmunds will likely show flashes, but his lack of experience will probably negate some of his talent in the first year or two.

 

Allen has a ton of talent as well, but also has a lot to learn. McCarron has some experience, but most of his time was on the sideline. 

 

At DB, the experience is there, but Gaines was a great fit for this defense. Replacing him with Davis may be a bit of a wash overall. White looked great as a rookie, but there could be a "sophomore slump". 

 

Our RBs are long in the tooth, and with a (perceived) worse offensive line, their overall production could take a hit.

 

Then there's Daboll...unknown, and lacks experience in the NFL. 

 

So in relation to this year, I think the Bills take a step back, especially if you consider that they overachieved a bit last year, and had some luck along the way as well. I still think they're a 6-8 win team, but mainly due to the improvements on defense. Most of their additions there are seasoned vets, so experience won't be an issue. 

 

Now, if you were asking about 2-3 years from now, I think we're in great shape, talent wise and cap wise. We'll see how Allen factors into that, but I'm rather optimistic that he'll turn out ok at the very least, as opposed to busting. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat

[berg1029]

the offensive line being worse is going to make a lot of those other position groups look worse on offense. 

[elltrain22]

2 hours ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

I really don’t think it’s going to be as bad as people are saying. Losing Glenn really doesn’t affect anything. He’s barely played the last couple seasons. Dawkins stepped in and did awesome last year. Incognito was on the downslope of his career. He’s 34 years old and maybe had one more year left. I loved Eric Wood but he was pretty average. We signed Jeff Bodine in the offseason to play center and we also have Groy who has been a very solid backup for us. 

 

Glenn is a moot point bc he barely was ever on  the field. Dawkins was great in his rookie season, but you hope he can  stay healthy and continue to improve. Kinda scary that our best OL is in his sophmore season. Both Newhouse & Russel Bodine are backup/depth guys at best, and if we have to count on these playing alot, we are really in trouble. Groy is a nice swing lineman, but def not anything to get excited about

[Tatonka68]

10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not sure that even the Bills are as optimistic as you are. I think that long-term the QB play is better but it is likely to be worse this year. The RB position is a year older running behind a worse OL. The pass catchers are the same as they were before, bad. 

 

The defense should improve. They have a chance to be good. This team looks like it takes a step back to me. I’m fine with that as long as Allen is the guy.

Hard to be worse than Tyrod. How many times last year when we really need it did he drove for a score?

10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not sure that even the Bills are as optimistic as you are. I think that long-term the QB play is better but it is likely to be worse this year. The RB position is a year older running behind a worse OL. The pass catchers are the same as they were before, bad. 

 

The defense should improve. They have a chance to be good. This team looks like it takes a step back to me. I’m fine with that as long as Allen is the guy.

Where did they take a step back?

10 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

From this perspective, I'm just focusing on the short-term since you're putting it in the context of whether or not this team will be better this year:

 

1. Worse

2. Same

3. Worse

4. Worse

5. Better

6. Same or slightly better

7. Worse

 

On top of this, I don't think Buffalo was really a 9 win team last year. I'd say they played like a 7ish win team and are probably worse this year.

McCarron > Tyrod 

Peterman = Peterman 

Allen ??? 

so how are QB's worse??

[JerseyBills]

9 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'll answer that question...  Because we're not very good - even if we're better.

Both our offense and defense were ranked in the bottom half of the league last year.   Timely take-aways and minimal turnovers gave us a winning record.  

 

We can't count on the getting take-aways at critical times this year.

Phenomenal coaching tends to do that

[Kirby Jackson]

29 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

Hard to be worse than Tyrod. How many times last year when we really need it did he drove for a score?

Where did they take a step back?

McCarron > Tyrod 

Peterman = Peterman 

Allen ??? 

so how are QB's worse??

I know that you believe that but most of the league doesn’t. I don’t know if you’ve watched  McCarron’s pro career to date but it hasn’t been very good. There has been a substantial drop off from Dalton despite great pass catchers. He’s averaged less passing yards than TT as well and is nowhere near as mobile. I think that people that hated Tyrod have this vision of McCarron that just isn’t accurate. That’s why he got paid half of what Josh McCown did.

 

Allen is the question mark. If he is good it is an upgrade. If he isn’t ready it is a downgrade. That was the point that it is “set up to be better long-term but is likely worse this year.” Allen is either the guy immediately or they are worse this year.

 

Too often we fall into the trap of extreme opinions on Bills players because of our emotional investment. We overrate Kyle and underrate Tyrod. We underrated Sammy and overrated Freddie. That doesn’t mean that they are awful or great. They are just worse and better than our perception. The contracts around the league tell the story. Teams pay guys what they think comparable quality players are paid.  

Edited May 9, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[Fadingpain]

11 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

Homer analysis.

 

The QB position is likely much worse, until Allen (if ever) comes up to speed.

 

[The Now Moment]

12 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

We will be in a lot of games with the solid defense and shady but who knows what to expect?  McDermott took a team last year that was predicted to be garbage and broke the drought.   We will see how we do but last year we had a lot of rookies that played really well.  I think our success depends on how quickly this draft class develops.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Buffalo30

[BuffaloRebound]

It’d be nice to get Allen a WR that can run past people.  Coleman from Cleveland is supposedly odd man out and on trading block.  He was highly thought of out of Baylor and hard to hold his last 2 years against him with Kizer and Kessler throwing him passes.  

[Adam727]

12 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

1.  Is the quarterback roster better or worse? Better
2. Is the running back roster better/worse? Better.
3. Is the right end/receivers better or worse? Same
4. Is the the offensive line better or worse? Worse.
5. Is the the defensive line better/worse? Better.
6. Is the linebackers better or worse? Better.
7. Is the defensive backs better or worse? Better.

 

If you say that at least 4 out of the 7 have improved why would your expectations be less than 9-7 and playoffs? No backsliding anymore.10-6 and a playoff victory

1. Worse

2. Same

3. Worse

4. MUCH worse

5. Better

6. Too soon to tell.  I like the moves at this position but so far we swapped the NFL leading tackler for a Rookie with much bigger upside.

7. Worse

 

[Tatonka68]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I know that you believe that but most of the league doesn’t. I don’t know if you’ve watched  McCarron’s pro career to date but it hasn’t been very good. There has been a substantial drop off from Dalton despite great pass catchers. He’s averaged less passing yards than TT as well and is nowhere near as mobile. I think that people that hated Tyrod have this vision of McCarron that just isn’t accurate. That’s why he got paid half of what Josh McCown did.

 

Allen is the question mark. If he is good it is an upgrade. If he isn’t ready it is a downgrade. That was the point that it is “set up to be better long-term but is likely worse this year.” Allen is either the guy immediately or they are worse this year.

 

Too often we fall into the trap of extreme opinions on Bills players because of our emotional investment. We overrate Kyle and underrate Tyrod. We underrated Sammy and overrated Freddie. That doesn’t mean that they are awful or great. They are just worse and better than our perception. The contracts around the league tell the story. Teams pay guys what they think comparable quality players are paid.  

Tyrod did ZERO for the team. His best attribute is "he didn't turn the ball over", which means ZERO if you don't score. McCarron has more post season TD'S than Tyrod.

1 hour ago, Fadingpain said:

Homer analysis.

 

The QB position is likely much worse, until Allen (if ever) comes up to speed.

 

I pretty sure that McCarron or Allen can pass for more than 56yards in a game. Tyrod did nothing last year.

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

Tyrod did ZERO for the team. His best attribute is "he didn't turn the ball over", which means ZERO if you don't score. McCarron has more post season TD'S than Tyrod.

I pretty sure that McCarron or Allen can pass for more than 56yards in a game. Tyrod did nothing last year.

Again, your emotions are clouding your judgement. Tyrod led 2 top 10 scoring offenses in his 3 years. You are dismissing the strengths while exaggerating the flaws. That is your way of justifying it. FWIW, as much as Tyrod struggled last year he still averaged more passing yards than McCarron (who played with Green, Sanu and a good Eiffert). What you think is the case and what IS actually the case are different. That is the point.

 

Again, Allen is the long-term answer (hopefully). If he is the guy, the problem is solved. If he isn’t, we will be looking again in a couple of years. McCarron is simply a placeholder and potential back-up. I suggest you follow this thread in twitter to familiarize yourself with what actually happened when McCarron played:

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[DCOrange]

10 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

Hard to be worse than Tyrod. How many times last year when we really need it did he drove for a score?

Where did they take a step back?

McCarron > Tyrod 

Peterman = Peterman 

Allen ??? 

so how are QB's worse??

In my opinion, McCarron is likely significantly worse than Tyrod. Peterman is Peterman. Allen is a question mark as you said. I think he ends up starting very early and I personally think he’ll develop into a good starter but I don’t expect him to be better than Tyrod in his rookie season. 

[Tatonka68]

1 offense TD against playoff Carolina.

1 offensive TD against playoff Atlanta.

1 offensive TD, not led by Tyrod, against Saints

1 offensive TD against playoff Kansas City.RD

0 offense TDS against New England 

0 TDS against Jacksonville in playoff game.

Tyrod is gone get over it.

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

16 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

1 offense TD against playoff Carolina.

1 offensive TD against playoff Atlanta.

1 offensive TD, not led by Tyrod, against Saints

1 offensive TD against playoff Kansas City.RD

0 offense TDS against New England 

0 TDS against Jacksonville in playoff game.

Tyrod is gone get over it.

Did you just become a Bills fan in 2017?

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

1 offense TD against playoff Carolina.

1 offensive TD against playoff Atlanta.

1 offensive TD, not led by Tyrod, against Saints

1 offensive TD against playoff Kansas City.RD

0 offense TDS against New England 

0 TDS against Jacksonville in playoff game.

Tyrod is gone get over it.

 

Again, no one is talking about Tyrod but you. We are just challenging the notion that McCarron is any sort of upgrade based on what he has done. You pick random things that you hated about Tyrod as your proof and bury your head in the sand regarding McCarron’s struggles at the pro level. He has actually been a worse pro, with better surrounding talent, than Taylor. There is a reason that he is making half of McCown, about 28% of Tyrod, 1/6th of Ryan, etc...The league has spoken pretty loudly.

 

Now if you are referring to Allen we can discuss. He has massive upside and if he comes close to his potential he is absolutely an upgrade. That likely isn’t going to happen this year. If it does, fantastic!! The Bills even know that they are likely taking a step back to take a step forward. That’s why they keep saying things like, “this isn’t going to happen overnight.” 

 

The frustrating thing about discussing this with you is that you stick your fingers in your ears and scream “LA LA LA LA LA LA LA, I CANT HEAR YOU.” If you want to do that it’s up to you but that doesn’t strengthen your argument.

 

While we are at it I don’t understand how you believe the RB position will be better? Ivory is maybe a slight upgrade from Tolbert but Shady is a year older and they are running behind a significantly worse OL. They lost a Pro Bowl LG, a former Pro Bowl C and one of the highest paid OTs in the league (despite his injury problems). How do you see that RB group improving??

[Ramza86]

13 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

Hard to be worse than Tyrod. How many times last year when we really need it did he drove for a score?

Where did they take a step back?

McCarron > Tyrod 

Peterman = Peterman 

Allen ??? 

so how are QB's worse??

 

The delusion is real. 

 

What Average Mcarron can do with his arm wont be more effective than what Tyrod did with his legs.

 

 

[Bray Wyatt]

for people saying our WR group is worse, is it because Thompson left? I dont see how it got worse, granted its not good but that doesnt mean it got worse than last year