How much difference does Edmunds' size and speed make?

[Shaw66]

I wanted to see specifically how much difference Edmunds' size and speed should make over Preston Brown, so I calculated it.  

 

If the QB delivers the ball in two seconds and throws a 35 yard pass, the ball arrives at its destination about 3 seconds after the snap.  

 

Based on their combine times for the 20 and 40, Edmunds will get 1.5 to 2 yards deep (on a deep drop) or wider (if he's going to the flat) than Brown.   

 

Plus, Edmunds is 4 inches taller and has slightly longer arms.   

 

My continuing memories of Brown in pass coverage was that his drops regularly weren't deep enough or wide enough.   He read the plays correctly, but the ball always seemed to pass six to twelve inches over his outstretched arm.   Assuming Edmunds can learn to make the reads as well as Brown did, those balls are going to be incomplete or intercepted.   

 

Bigger, better, faster athlete.  

[Teddy KGB]

How does he compare to Keutchly ? 

 

His speed makes a lot of difference.  

[aristocrat]

4 inches on preston

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

How does he compare to Keutchly ? 

 

His speed makes a lot of difference.  

Edmunds is slightly faster in the 40. a little slower in the 20, so I'd guess their ability to drop is about the same.   Edmunds is two inches taller.   So I'd say that physically it's a push. 

[TigerJ]

Sometimes when you get a guy with superior measurables, he will tend to rely on his athleticism and get a little bit lazy in his pursuit of mental mastery of the game.  In the case of Tremaine Edmunds, however, he appears to be afootball junkie who was dedicated to film study at a far earlier age than most players in the NFL, thanks to his father, a pro bowl TE in his professional career, who was Tremaine's high school coach.  The result of his father's instructions is a player with superior size, athleticism, instinct and football IQ.  Given all of that, I will be disappointed if Tremaine doesn't turn out to be a perennial pro bowler.

[mead107]

A lot

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, TigerJ said:

Sometimes when you get a guy with superior measurables, he will tend to rely on his athleticism and get a little bit lazy in his pursuit of mental mastery of the game.  In the case of Tremaine Edmunds, however, he appears to be afootball junkie who was dedicated to film study at a far earlier age than most players in the NFL, thanks to his father, a pro bowl TE in his professional career, who was Tremaine's high school coach.  The result of his father's instructions is a player with superior size, athleticism, instinct and football IQ.  Given all of that, I will be disappointed if Tremaine doesn't turn out to be a perennial pro bowler.

McD won't tolerate mental laziness.   Nor worries there.

[TigerJ]

4 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

How does he compare to Keutchly ? 

 

His speed makes a lot of difference.  

Keuchly ran the 40 in 4.58 at his combine performance in 2012.  He is 6'3" and weighs about 240.  Tremaine Edmunds ran a 4.54 at 6'5" and 253 lbs. So, he's bigger, stronger, and faster.  

[Shaw66]

Just now, TigerJ said:

Keuchly ran the 40 in 4.58 at his combine performance in 2012.  He is 6'3" and weighs about 240.  Tremaine Edmunds ran a 4.54 at 6'5" and 253 lbs. So, he's bigger, stronger, and faster.  

Only a bit better all around, but Keuchly's 20 time is faster, which means that Keuchly's better in the first ten steps.   That's why I think it's a push.  

 

The point is that Edmunds has all the physical tools to be as effective as Keuchly.  Keuchly was built for McD's defense, and Edmund's is too. 

 

That's why when you read the articles today where Beane talks in depth about the draft, Beane says they were overjoyed after the first night.   They didn't think they had a chance to get BOTH a QB they wanted and Edmunds.   It fell perfectly for the Bills.  

[TigerJ]

Yeah, I think those grading the Bills draft as a "D" are doing so out of disdain for Allen.  If Allen pans out, this becomes an amazing draft for the Bills.

[swnybillsfan]

the exciting thing to me is not exclusively the physical ability of edmunds, but the addition of star, phillips, and murphy. not to mention the db's that were picked up and/or drafted. this defense did pretty good with modest talent last year. this year, i think it is primed to take another step, and edmunds should absolutely shine!

[Bing Bong]

I was going to ask.. what distinguishes him from barkevious. I assume he has a better football IQ but all I hear is athleticism

[Shaw66]

27 minutes ago, swnybillsfan said:

the exciting thing to me is not exclusively the physical ability of edmunds, but the addition of star, phillips, and murphy. not to mention the db's that were picked up and/or drafted. this defense did pretty good with modest talent last year. this year, i think it is primed to take another step, and edmunds should absolutely shine!

This is something I've only thought about a little.   Others have commented on it.   There are a lot of solid players on the defense.   Hughes and Lawson and Star and Kyle and Phillips.  Edmunds and Zo.  DBs and safeties.   The defense was pretty good last season, when everyone was just learning.   Now they're going to weave in the new comers, and the talent upgrade should make the defense really tough tough this season.  Then Zo and Kyle will retire, but they'll be replaced.   The defense in Buffalo will a force.

[Stank_Nasty]

18 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is something I've only thought about a little.   Others have commented on it.   There are a lot of solid players on the defense.   Hughes and Lawson and Star and Kyle and Phillips.  Edmunds and Zo.  DBs and safeties.   The defense was pretty good last season, when everyone was just learning.   Now they're going to weave in the new comers, and the talent upgrade should make the defense really tough tough this season.  Then Zo and Kyle will retire, but they'll be replaced.   The defense in Buffalo will a force.

Totally agree. I didn’t really get excited about the D until a couple days ago when I really sat down and thought about the new members up front and then the drafted guys. It’s very apparent mcdermott wants to build a d that can take over a game and help out the young qb. It would not surprise me one bit to see a leap into the top ten in total yardage and points allowed this coming season. 

 

Its exciting to see that aspect get better while STILL being able to make a move at trying to upgrade qb. 

[H2o]

Edmunds is an athletic freak who just turned 20 years old. At 6'5" and 254lbs he ran a 4.53 forty time. He has an 83" wingspan to go along with the height he already possesses. It means he can cover A LOT of ground and do so quickly. He has an elite closing burst. 

 

Preston is 4" shorter, about the same weight, has a wingspan shorter fhan Edmunds, and ran a 4.86 forty time. Preston made a lot of tackles, but they were always after he got burnt in coverage or on a ball carrier after a 5 or 6 yard gain. 

 

In short, Edmunds will be an immediate upgrade. He plays fast, is a true 3 down LB, and has a closing burst that Preston will never have. 

[Logic]

I don't know if people are quite prepared for how big a difference a star middle linebacker and a double-team eating DT will make in McDermott's defense. Seeing Carolina's defense over the years with Kuechly healthy vs the games where he was on the sideline for one reason or another...night and day. And then, additionally, the degree to which a mammoth nose tackle like Star can keep Edmunds clean and allow him to make plays. Boy oh boy, the Bills defense has a chance to be something special.

[Your Brown Eye]

So you had to do math to figure out that a faster, taller linebacker has more potential than a shorter slower linebacker. You could've just asked me and saved yourself some time from answering a rather obvious question lol

[BadLandsMeanie]

Somewhere in Connecticut...

 

Mom, could you talk to dad?

 

Why. Is something wrong?

 

Well, he is doing his calculations again. And he has got out his slide rule and that mannequin. And well, my friends are coming over.

[CaliBills92]

1 hour ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I was going to ask.. what distinguishes him from barkevious. I assume he has a better football IQ but all I hear is athleticism

Other than they don't play the same position and Edmunds is bigger, stronger and faster?

 

Mingo was a hand on the ground defensive end not a sideline to sideline LB.   I don't understand how you would even relate the two.

?

[klos63]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

How does he compare to Keutchly ? 

 

His speed makes a lot of difference.  

Edmunds has never cried during a game.

[Sky Diver]

At a velocity of 50mph, the ball is in flight for 1.43 secs if it travels 35 yrds.

 

Figure about 2.5 to 3.5 sec for the QB to release the ball after the snap.

 

So 4 - 5 sec for the play from snap to completion, or more if the QB is scrambling.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Augie]

38 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

At a velocity of 50mph, the ball is in flight for 1.43 secs if it travels 35 yrds.

 

Figure about 2.5 to 3.5 sec for the QB to release the ball after the snap.

 

So 4 - 5 sec for the play from snap to completion, or more if the QB is scrambling.

 

 

Is this the “Tyrod factor”? 

[swnybillsfan]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

This is something I've only thought about a little.   Others have commented on it.   There are a lot of solid players on the defense.   Hughes and Lawson and Star and Kyle and Phillips.  Edmunds and Zo.  DBs and safeties.   The defense was pretty good last season, when everyone was just learning.   Now they're going to weave in the new comers, and the talent upgrade should make the defense really tough tough this season.  Then Zo and Kyle will retire, but they'll be replaced.   The defense in Buffalo will a force.

it seems like they have a great transition happening. while i am going to miss kyle williams when he decides to retire, phillips seems like the perfect guy to step up in that role. and zo is a great mentor to the kids in the lb core, as well as the defense in general. these guys are the epitome of veteran leadership. i think this is the process.

[LeGOATski]

Longer

better

faster

stronger

[Magox]

54 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Longer

better

faster

stronger

Sounds like a male performance enhancement ad.

[LeGOATski]

30 minutes ago, Magox said:

Sounds like a male performance enhancement ad.

TREMAINE ENHANCEMUNDS

[CSBill]

The Bills defense was good last year, but not great. They were vulnerable to a good running game but generally did well against the pass. I think every addition has been an upgrade, so the expectation that this defense is going to be better is fair. How quickly the new guys develop and how quickly they gel will be key. If that happens, it could be a great defense.

[Teddy KGB]

8 hours ago, klos63 said:

Edmunds has never cried during a game.

 

Classless joke ??

 

 

[Bring it]

8 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Somewhere in Connecticut...

 

Mom, could you talk to dad?

 

Why. Is something wrong?

 

Well, he is doing his calculations again. And he has got out his slide rule and that mannequin. And well, my friends are coming over.

Lol!

 

On the serious side, Phillips will be hard to keep off the field THIS year. And if Edmunds has the instincts for mlb he will be a stud! Huge upgrade over Brown.

[Keukasmallie]

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck....

 

Yeah, I know, about as inane as the question posed by this thread.

[Just Joshin']

With his size and speed the QB must throw into a tighter window while adjusting his trajectory. This will result in more incompletions and less YAC,

[BadLandsMeanie]

To the original point. In the games I watched on replay the bills linebacker pass coverage was sort of ceremonial. Or like our appendix, which is vestigial but no longer serves a purpose. 

 

They were so slow it was embarrassing and it is a good thing nobody watched the all 22. Seriously on some plays it was like watching a guy being covered by his much younger little brother. That is my way of saying I think Shaw's calculations for Brown are very generous. 

 

I think the difference with this new guy will be way more drastic. Night and day different. There are videos of this Edmunds running down receivers for Pete's sake..

 

From what I have learned he needs work against the run but against the pass this guy is already great.

[billsredneck1]

12 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Sometimes when you get a guy with superior measurables, he will tend to rely on his athleticism and get a little bit lazy in his pursuit of mental mastery of the game.  In the case of Tremaine Edmunds, however, he appears to be afootball junkie who was dedicated to film study at a far earlier age than most players in the NFL, thanks to his father, a pro bowl TE in his professional career, who was Tremaine's high school coach.  The result of his father's instructions is a player with superior size, athleticism, instinct and football IQ.  Given all of that, I will be disappointed if Tremaine doesn't turn out to be a perennial pro bowler.

and on top of all that he's over 250, so i expect him to also lay the wood. he won't be all finesse. bring on gronk!

11 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Totally agree. I didn’t really get excited about the D until a couple days ago when I really sat down and thought about the new members up front and then the drafted guys. It’s very apparent mcdermott wants to build a d that can take over a game and help out the young qb. It would not surprise me one bit to see a leap into the top ten in total yardage and points allowed this coming season. 

 

Its exciting to see that aspect get better while STILL being able to make a move at trying to upgrade qb. 

sacks should rise dramatically as well.

[Luka]

Aside from measurables, just watch him in coverage. His hips are fluid, he drops into a zone like a safety. They have a very young kid who is devoted to football and the more he learns the better he will get.

[wppete]

There is no ILB with the height, length, weight, speed, athleticism that Edmunds has. And he just turned 20. 

 

He is is a bigger, faster more athletic Luke Kuechly. Let’s hope McDermott and the coaches work on the Football IQ and instincts. He could be a dominant player in the NFL. 

[K-9]

Love his elite size/athleticism combination, but he’s very raw in terms of recognition. Poor angles and improper coverage drops will be an issue until he’s more seasoned. Yes, his athleticism will enable him to recover faster but that can be a double edged sword as teams can exploit that to get him out of position. We need to be patient during the growing pains but sky is the limit for him.

[Shaw66]

36 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

To the original point. In the games I watched on replay the bills linebacker pass coverage was sort of ceremonial. Or like our appendix, which is vestigial but no longer serves a purpose. 

 

They were so slow it was embarrassing and it is a good thing nobody watched the all 22. Seriously on some plays it was like watching a guy being covered by his much younger little brother. That is my way of saying I think Shaw's calculations for Brown are very generous. 

 

I think the difference with this new guy will be way more drastic. Night and day different. There are videos of this Edmunds running down receivers for Pete's sake..

 

From what I have learned he needs work against the run but against the pass this guy is already great.

Tweaked me good with the slide rule post.   I liked it.   (In my defense, I began the post by saying I wanted to quantify it because I was curious.   It's not like I didn't already know he was faster than Brown.)

 

I'd disagree with your assessment of Brown, but I haven't watched the All 22.  Brown seemed to me to be just a step or two out of position, not my-little-brother out of position.   

 

Someone else started talking abut 35-yard passes.   Most passes are shorther than that, and the 35 yard passes are typically to the sideline, and Edmunds won't be defending those.  I think where we'll see the difference is throws over the middle - QBs will learn that nothing's open over the middle, because Edmunds is standing right in the middle of the target area.  

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Love his elite size/athleticism combination, but he’s very raw in terms of recognition. Poor angles and improper coverage drops will be an issue until he’s more seasoned. Yes, his athleticism will enable him to recover faster but that can be a double edged sword as teams can exploit that to get him out of position. We need to be patient during the growing pains but sky is the limit for him.

He reminds me of Cornelious Bennett from a size and athletic standpoint. He's an exciting prospect who in a couple years or so should be a dynamic player. The only issue relates to his football instincts. Only time will tell on that issue.  

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

Just be glad Allen is throwing 62 mph balls on our side we would need really fast LBer's to cover that LOL

[billsredneck1]

26 minutes ago, wppete said:

There is no ILB with the height, length, weight, speed, athleticism that Edmunds has. And he just turned 20. 

 

He is is a bigger, faster more athletic Luke Kuechly. Let’s hope McDermott and the coaches work on the Football IQ and instincts. He could be a dominant player in the NFL. 

his father was a 2 time nfl pro bowler. his brother trey plays for the saints and his other brother terrell was drafted in the first by pitt. making them the first brothers to go in the 1st rd. in nfl history.

 

i would say the iq and instincts already may be in his blood.

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He reminds me of Cornelious Bennett from a size and athletic standpoint. He's an exciting prospect who in a couple years or so should be a dynamic player. The only issue relates to his football instincts. Only time will tell on that issue.  

hmmm...that sounds like a good comparison....but add a little size and the bloodline.