Start Allen from Day 1/ QB competition

[Kirby Jackson]

I don’t think using previous successes and failures is a wise move. You can find many examples on both sides. Every situation is different. The Bills will put Allen in as soon as they believe that he is ready. It will be imperative that the coaching staff does a good job developing him. That’s what makes a young QB, not how soon or how long he sits. 

[Bill_with_it]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think using previous successes and failures is a wise move. You can find many examples on both sides. Every situation is different. The Bills will put Allen in as soon as they believe that he is ready. It will be imperative that the coaching staff does a good job developing him. That’s what makes a young QB, not how soon or how long he sits. 

Whatever they do, I have that it will be appropriate for the situation. 

[26CornerBlitz]

13 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Depends on how well the O-line is playing I think.    If they're holding their own, and Shady is rolling along, you might see him sooner than you think.  I see week 9 at home against the Bears as Allens first start.

 

I actually think at the end of training camp the qb rankings will be Allen, Peterman, then McCarron.    If Allen doesn't start the opener, I think it will be Peterman.

 

He's the least likely to start and the guy who might not make the final 53. 

[Punching Bag]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He's the least likely to start and the guy who might not make the final 53. 

 

The Bills might need someone on practice squad to throw balls so DBs can practice getting interceptions.  Those skills DO need to be practiced you know?

[GreggTX]

My concern with this is that whoever we start at QB is going to take a LOT of sacks. 2 best starters gone and a veteran C and we've done practically nothing to stop the bleeding. And who will he throw to? I know we were never going to plug all the holes in 1 offseason, but let's try not to get Allen killed so quickly.

 

That noted, he has shown steady improvement and a great Sr Bowl. He might be ready for this offense before it's ready for him.

[grb]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think using previous successes and failures is a wise move. You can find many examples on both sides. Every situation is different. The Bills will put Allen in as soon as they believe that he is ready. It will be imperative that the coaching staff does a good job developing him. That’s what makes a young QB, not how soon or how long he sits. 

 

They might also want to make the effort to set him up to succeed. One of the wonderful things about having your Franchise Future as a quarterback is it suddenly becomes important to have a line which can pass-block, or receivers who make plays, or something close to a deep threat. Allen is universally held to be raw and unpolished, yet people are eager to rush him out into an offense universally predicted to be crappy. Why set him up to fail? Doesn't the "Process" have anything to say about that?

Of course the Process didn't do Nate Peterman's career any favors........

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, grb said:

 

They might also want to make the effort to set him up to succeed. One of the wonderful things about having your Franchise Future as a quarterback is it suddenly becomes important to have a line which can pass-block, or receivers who make plays, or something close to a deep threat. Allen is universally held to be raw and unpolished, yet people are eager to rush him out into an offense universally predicted to be crappy. Why set him up to fail? Doesn't the "Process" have anything to say about that?

Of course the Process didn't do Nate Peterman's career any favors........

It depends on if he was ready to play. It’s a totally different situation than Peterman. Allen is a physical specimen. They aren’t going to sit him if they think he’s ready. They aren’t going to play him if they don’t think that he’s ready. All of the scouting reports, speculation, etc... goes out the window when they start playing football. The Bills will do what any team in their situation would do and let the situation play out. It’s May 7th and he hasn’t had a practice yet. It may be May 7th of 2019 or May 8th of 2018 by the time that they think he’s ready. There is no right or wrong answer at this point.

 

I’ve been of the belief that he needed to sit a year. My opinion is based on what I’ve seen. It really means nothing until they get out there though. 

[Rebel101]

Josh Allen has issues that playing isnt going to fix it will only keep those issues in his muscle memory he needs coaching and his muscle memory changed 

[Magnum Force]

I think that we are way ahead ourselves until we see how training camp goes along with the preseason.  

[Chris in Syracuse]

I would really like a full year of pro development or at least 10-12 games.  I would make him inactive unless they have to activate because of injury. If he is ready, start him only if we are eliminated from the playoffs. 

[JaCrispy]

I don’t want him starting until after the Monday night game- the first half of the season is too brutal...let him get his legs under him, by getting comfortable in the playbook and with studying film first... I’m good with starting him the second half though.

[Charlottebillsfan2]

Open competition, if he outplays AJ he starts. 

[LABILLBACKER]

43 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He's the least likely to start and the guy who might not make the final 53. 

I sure hope Allen doesn't throw 5 interceptions his first NFL game or he's going to be cut by the fans the next day.... Archie Manning threw 5 interceptions his first NFL game and he went on to have a pretty damn good career. Cut Peterman a little bit of slack people....

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

I sure hope Allen doesn't throw 5 interceptions his first NFL game or he's going to be cut by the fans the next day.... Archie Manning threw 5 interceptions his first NFL game and he went on to have a pretty damn good career. Cut Peterman a little bit of slack people....

 

Allen as a 1st round pick who the team traded up for at the cost of two 2nd round picks will get more leeway than Peterman.  That's reality in the NFL.   Please stop comparing Peterman to Archie Manning or any other talented QB who was a 1st round ick. 

[Bill_with_it]

At this point no one knows what he will do. Its all guesses. I dont think it will take much to out perform AJ, if everything that his coach, oc, and Palmer stated are true about Allen. I believe in the coaches and gm to do the correct thing.

[LABILLBACKER]

39 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Allen as a 1st round pick who the team traded up for at the cost of two 2nd round picks will get more leeway than Peterman.  That's reality in the NFL.   Please stop comparing Peterman to Archie Manning or any other talented QB who was a 1st round ick. 

I can compare any quarterback to any other quarterback I want and you can't do anything about it. Doesn't that just fry your ass....

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I can compare any quarterback to any other quarterback I want and you can't do anything about it. Doesn't that just fry your ass....

 

Nope. Have at it. 

[greeneblitz]

I don't think that there's any question that the coaching staff, GM and Owner are on the same page that Allen should start if he can ( won't wreck his development or the locker room)

[DefenseWins]

Aren't we jumping the gun just a bit here? Can't we wait and see how things go in mini camp and training camp before making any of these decisions? Between McCarron and Peterman I don't see the need (at least at this point) to be making ANY hard and fast decisions of this kind. I don't care what the other teams with rookie QB's are gonna do. I think that the 1st order of business is getting him signed and into camp. 

[greeneblitz]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I believe Allen starting would be best for his own development, but I'm starting to think it will be week 5, not week 1.

If the the owner, GM and Coach have his back unlike in years past, this shouldn't matter, we know its a rough schedule, most likely his teammates know this, if he has the mental toughness to be a franchise QB he'll get over losses and bad games.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I believe Allen starting would be best for his own development, but I'm starting to think it will be week 5, not week 1.

 

So serious question:

 

If starting Allen would be best for his development, why are all these QB pundits on record saying he should sit for a year or more?

What is the difference between your viewpoint and theirs?

[artmalibu]

What’s wrong with him having to earn the start.  I don’t get the idea of starting a guy just because he was a high draft pick. 

 

The only conversation I want to hear is open competition.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, jethro_tull said:

This could easily go the way of the Chicago Bears season last year where they signed "veteran" QB Mike Glennon to be the interim starter until Mitch Trubisky was ready.  

Trubisky had limited college experience (31 games) slightly more than Allen (27 games).  

Glennon was awful (not all his fault) and was booted in favor of Trubisky week 4.  

In other words, AJ McCarron could easily wind up making the case for Allen to start.  

 

I think you nailed it, and this is exactly what I'm concerned about.

 

If Allen makes the case for Allen to start - pulls a Russ Wilson or a Dak Prescott, nails the playbook, knows his progressions, takes control, looks sharp - that's one thing.

 

But if Allen looks exactly as he has been advertised - a guy who shows amazing flashes, but clearly has gaps in his game and needs to work on his touch, refine his footwork, and figure out the NFL game - then if McCarron stinks up the place behind a crappy OL and WR who couldn't separate if they were cream and the DB were skimmed milk, that is exactly NOT the right case for Allen to start.

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I sure hope Allen doesn't throw 5 interceptions his first NFL game or he's going to be cut by the fans the next day....

 

Fortunately, the fans don't have fate control over the roster.

 

 

[billspro]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So serious question:

 

If starting Allen would be best for his development, why are all these QB pundits on record saying he should sit for a year or more?

What is the difference between your viewpoint and theirs?

 

I would be fine following the same path as Big Ben if he is showing well in camp. 

 

I think Allen would be very successful running an offense with around 20 pass attempts a game and heavy play action. He was a great play action passer in college. We could then slowly increase his pass attempts every year until he is ready to handle all the complexities of NFL defences.

[mannc]

41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So serious question:

 

If starting Allen would be best for his development, why are all these QB pundits on record saying he should sit for a year or more?

What is the difference between your viewpoint and theirs?

I really don’t think there’s any evidence that playing a rookie too early can ruin him.  It’s the kind of thing people say a lot, and it seems to make some superficial sense, but there’s really no way to prove (or disprove) it.  He should start when he’s the Bills’ best QB.  Period.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

I really don’t think there’s any evidence that playing a rookie too early can ruin him.  It’s the kind of thing people say a lot, and it seems to make some superficial sense, but there’s really no way to prove (or disprove) it.  He should start when he’s the Bills’ best QB.  Period.

 

Fair enough.

 

Then why do pundits think it does?  Any ideas?

[John from Riverside]

My big thing is really green QBs make mistakes with the ball....I dont want Allen turning into a interception machine.

 

I know TT wouldnt pull the trigger...but there is also something to be said about ball security and winning especially if your D and running game are strong....which I think will be the case this upcoming year.

[PromoTheRobot]

Allen will start when he's ready. /thread.

[Punching Bag]

Why not start? When rookie (or even QBs who have not played in NFL in later years) QBs:

• Have games where they throw the ball and shouldn't causing interceptions the criticism from coaches can become self-defeating - the QBs not take chances they should.  Throwing interceptions happen and the especially happen when you are behind in game but if thrown on 3rd down on opponents side of field when trying to get back into game they are not that bad
• Have games where they have not adjusted to NFL speed yet and get hit they start seeing shadows causing them to get rid of ball early or doing dump downs when they should still be trying to making plays to extend down.
• When dealing with teams still being formulated due to new coaches or players a QB can learn to not trust his line or decisions.

[PromoTheRobot]

11 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Why not start? When rookie (or even QBs who have not played in NFL in later years) QBs:

• Have games where they throw the ball and shouldn't causing interceptions the criticism from coaches can become self-defeating - the QBs not take chances they should.  Throwing interceptions happen and the especially happen when you are behind in game but if thrown on 3rd down on opponents side of field when trying to get back into game they are not that bad
• Have games where they have not adjusted to NFL speed yet and get hit they start seeing shadows causing them to get rid of ball early or doing dump downs when they should still be trying to making plays to extend down.
• When dealing with teams still being formulated due to new coaches or players a QB can learn to not trust his line or decisions.

 

Because throwing in a player who isn't ready is a recipe for disaster. Then again, maybe that's what some folks want. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[Punching Bag]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Because throwing a player who isn't ready is a recipe for disaster. Then again, maybe that's what some want. 

Some of the tankers do.  I'd be more comfortable if the tanker was a lady with nice picture or showing themselves riding in one when they were in service. 

[transplantbillsfan]

I thought about starting a thread predicting Allen would and maybe even should start immediately, but I think I'd jinx him

 

In truth, though, despite the fact that he's currently 3rd on the depth chart, I kinda think Beane wants/expects him to win this job out the gate.

 

I can't get the article anymore, but in that Buffalo News article about the draft process, I thought this comment was telling:

 

"I think what's come with social media and all the draft coverage is that all the stats get plastered out there,” he said. “I said it on the radio show the other day ...one of the guys said something about Josh Allen being raw. I went into a thing like, raw came from a national pundit. They labeled these guys as different things. Some of them I agreed with, some of them I did not.”

 

That sure sounds like Beane doesn't believe Allen is raw.

 

Dude is 6'5, 240 lbs, all the arm strength in the world, has more experience in a pro style offense than the other top QBs, is very smart, and quick to process things.

 

The biggest question, I think, will be how much of the improvements on his mechanics and footwork from his work with Palmer has truly stuck.

 

He has the size and athleticism where I don't think he's going to get shell shocked after getting killed in his rookie year.

 

If he earns the job, let him start right away.

 

Does signing AJ McCarron as like the last real viable fringe starting QB on the 3rd day of Free Agency really make people think McBeane's plan A all along has been to have a vet QB start this year???

 

Do you think AJ McCarron is a shoe-in or even a favorite to beat an uber talented rookie who's likely really going to WOW his coaches over the Summer with at least his physical ability, if not also his mental processing (based on reports of how he is at the whiteboard)???

 

If your answers to both of those questions are "No," which I think they are, then Allen's probably the favorite to win this job right out the gate.

[Domdab99]

Allen is not raw. He's ready to play. Yeah, he's going to have some rocky moments and he needs to work on some things...but there is no way Allen will not start the majority of the games this season. Unless he's a bust and he doesn't win the job.

 

Think of it this way: how would you feel about Josh Allen, our No. 1 pick who we traded up for, if he can't beat out AJ Freakin' McCarron and Nate "5 picks in a half" Peterman for the starting job in camp? 

[Aussie Joe]

9 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

Allen is not raw. He's ready to play. Yeah, he's going to have some rocky moments and he needs to work on some things...but there is no way Allen will not start the majority of the games this season. Unless he's a bust and he doesn't win the job.

 

Think of it this way: how would you feel about Josh Allen, our No. 1 pick who we traded up for, if he can't beat out AJ Freakin' McCarron and Nate "5 picks in a half" Peterman for the starting job in camp? 

 

Do you feel the same way about Baker and Tyrod out of interest?

 

 

[Domdab99]

9 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Do you feel the same way about Baker and Tyrod out of interest?

 

 

 

That's an interesting battle. Tyrod alsways looks great in camp and practice...and he's a seasoned pro. Unless Baker comes out and lights it up right from the start, I can see Tyrod starting the season in Cleveland. But once Cleveland realizes Tyrod can't lead a team back from a deficit, Mayfield will get his shot. 

 

But McCarron and Peterman are not in Tyrod's league; he is a much better QB than either of them. So I don't think the situations are the same. 

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

 

That's an interesting battle. Tyrod alsways looks great in camp and practice...and he's a seasoned pro. Unless Baker comes out and lights it up right from the start, I can see Tyrod starting the season in Cleveland. But once Cleveland realizes Tyrod can't lead a team back from a deficit, Mayfield will get his shot. 

 

But McCarron and Peterman are not in Tyrod's league; he is a much better QB than either of them. So I don't think the situations are the same. 

 

Cheers... I'm prepared to keep an open mind about McCarron being worse than Tyrod at this stage...

 

I think its a big ask for Allen to beat out AJ in camp, but hopefully if he does it means he has practiced well and not that AJ is terrible...

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Very dislike websites which need to break each thought on it to a different page to get more ads with automatic videos starting (it is interesting that browsers used to have controls to prevent videos automatically or videos entirely but those are gone now).  If I am not going to click on ad on first page and I am not going to click on ads on subsequent pages.

 

Regarding starting him I think they should prepare packages for Allen to play in and have him play a series when the coaching staff thinks it is a good time based on field position, score, defense, etc but NOT start him game 1.  Make sure it is clear it is not a benching of AJ McCarron but a way to get most out of team.  But at no time should they announce this or show such plays during open practices.

 

 

 

Oh please... I think McCarron is probably smart enough to realize whatever time he gets under center during the regular season is borrowed time.

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Because AJ McCarron isn't very good. 

 

The prosecution rests m'Lord. 

 

Seriously... it's a new NFL.. rookie QBs just generally don't sit unless they're extremely raw... and Allen isn't raw in the way Mahomes was, who never really NFL experience playing in an Air Raid offense in College.

5 hours ago, Buffalo86 said:

If there's such a thing as ruining a QB by starting him too soon, Allen's rawness would seem to make him a prime candidate.  Then again, he's used to having unblocked defenders harass him on every play, so there's that.  As for the other guys, I don't consider it a given that McCarron starts over Peterman.

 

What exactly about him is raw?

[reddogblitz]

11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Oh please... I think McCarron is probably smart enough to realize whatever time he gets under center during the regular season is borrowed time.

 

I suspect AJ  is looking at this as an opportunity to show what he can really do.

[Fadingpain]

5 hours ago, Buffalo86 said:

If there's such a thing as ruining a QB by starting him too soon, Allen's rawness would seem to make him a prime candidate.  Then again, he's used to having unblocked defenders harass him on every play, so there's that.  As for the other guys, I don't consider it a given that McCarron starts over Peterman.

That's an interesting angle I honestly hadn't considered.

 

I assume Peterman figures into no plans whatsoever and is a sure #3.  

 

Unless Allen has a very strong camp and really impresses, I think McCarron will start the season.

I also think McCarron will be terrible, leading to a QB switch at some point into the season, unless Allen looks horrid during the summer.

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

 Partially that, avoid the road games at Minny & GB, but also I think at home vs. Tennessee is probably the easiest place to begin on the schedule

 

That's a game I'm considering being back in WNY for...

 

That'd be awesome

 

...way more awesome than the Thad Lewis introduction to the NFL in 2013... although that game actually went to OT.