If Beane trades up for Allen and passes on Rosen what's your reaction?

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Threads like this make me really hope Allen does well, regardless of who picks him....

Unless he ends up with the Pats* per impossible.  Then, sorry fella, but it has to be an epic fail

[section122]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

Lot of presumptuous know-it-alls chiming in.  If it was so manifestly self-evident that Allen was doomed to fail, professionals would not be considering Allen at the top of the draft.  One has to trust that there are credible intellects evaluating much more comprehensive information than any of us have.  For example, I don't like Rudolph.  I'll be mad if we pick him.  I don't see a high ceiling on the fella.  Nonetheless, I'll hope I am wrong and root for him to be good if he ends up a Buffalo Bill.

 

Most of all us fall into the bolded.  Allen SCREAMS bust to me.  In the same vain of who the hell is Blaine Gabbert?  Remember him?  Played at Missouri and had subpar stats but went in the 1st round.  I don't THINK Allen will work out in the NFL.  If he is drafted by the Bills I will hope like hell I am wrong.  I've been wrong plenty of times before.  I just won't be as excited as I will be if the pick is Rosen or Mayfield.  Choosing Allen OVER Rosen as this thread suggests and I will be very disappointed.  

[KDIGGZ]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Holy Overreaction, Batman.

that's only if they do something crazy like trade up for Allen and bypass Rosen.  at that point i would lose all faith in this administration and at that point there's no use following them until the next regime.  hopefully it doesn't go down like that!  i don't think i can sit through another 2-3 yrs of waiting for these guys to get fired so we can do it all over again.  i'll still watch the games (from home) i just don't need to be so involved in something with so much negativity surrounding it.  still a fan, just from a distance.  we'll see how it goes.  cautiously optimistic that this regime isn't as bad as the previous ones

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

thanks bud.  i'll be hoping it works out for sure.  this has been my team my whole life.  it pains me to see them suffer like this.  i think i would need to take a step back and watch from the sidelines for a bit though.  i get too involved and then get let down.  you never know though.  maybe stats are for losers and all of that math stuff is nonsense!  we'll see

FWIW that’s how I felt when they drafted EJ. I had watched a ton of him at FSU and knew of his flaws. I don’t see anything that glaring with Allen. EJ would be thinking mid throw on how to release it, float it, rip it, etc. Allen throws instinctually, much more so than an EJ or Bortles.

 

Early combine reports from Breer had Allen being dumb as a rock. I had Allen as a do not touch after hearing that. Once his wonderlic was leaked I softened my stance and will trust what the Bills saw during the interview process. Maybe that’s just my love for the team softening the blow so I’m not feeling the same way you are? Maybe I’m seeing something different after spending some time watching him once I gave him actual consideration.

 

 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, section122 said:

 

Most of all us fall into the bolded.  Allen SCREAMS bust to me.  In the same vain of who the hell is Blaine Gabbert?  Remember him?  Played at Missouri and had subpar stats but went in the 1st round.  I don't THINK Allen will work out in the NFL.  If he is drafted by the Bills I will hope like hell I am wrong.  I've been wrong plenty of times before.  I just won't be as excited as I will be if the pick is Rosen or Mayfield.  Choosing Allen OVER Rosen as this thread suggests and I will be very disappointed.  

That's fine.  We all have our opinions and individual modes of evaluation.  I don't claim to be an expert.  I really want Darnold, but I think Allen is going to be good.  I worry about Rosen's injury history and lack of pocket presence.  It's not ridiculous, however, to think Rosen will end up the best of the bunch.

[Acattack15]

I'd be pumped/excited/happy.... Josh Allen is going to be good. Just give him time & trust the process

[Royale with Cheese]

[dave mcbride]

24 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You feel your amateur, arm's length assessment is better than a team of professionals who have access to information you'll never be able to imagine?

 

I'm high on Rosen and like him the most of the Big 4, but we don't know how the interviews went, and we dont know what the FO plans are.

We also know nothing about his medical report.

[essential]

26 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You feel your amateur, arm's length assessment is better than a team of professionals who have access to information you'll never be able to imagine?

 

I'm high on Rosen and like him the most of the Big 4, but we don't know how the interviews went, and we dont know what the FO plans are.

 

I don't need to defend myself to you but yes.  I've been watching the Bills and following the draft for almost 20 years.  Off the top of my head there have been numerous times where the Bills didn't do what seemed like the obvious choice, professional vs ammeter or not.  Taking Whitner over Ngata, Maybin over Orakpo.  These seemed like obvious bad choices at the time, and proved to be in the long term.  Allen over Rosen seems like an obvious bad choice, amateur or not.  If we take Allen i'll root for him to success, but i'll still think it was the wrong choice.

 

11 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Lot of presumptuous know-it-alls chiming in.  If it was so manifestly self-evident that Allen was doomed to fail, professionals would not be considering Allen at the top of the draft.  One has to trust that there are credible intellects evaluating much more comprehensive information than any of us have.  For example, I don't like Rudolph.  I'll be mad if we pick him.  I don't see a high ceiling on the fella.  Nonetheless, I'll hope I am wrong and root for him to be good if he ends up a Buffalo Bill.

 

Many independent draft experts have Allen as basically a third round prospect, developmental type guy.  I understand you're drafting based on a projection, but his college play doesn't warrant a top 5 pick.  My thinking with Allen is everyone falling in love with the measurables.  I think that can be a weakness of "pros" and you can't always make a guy into something he's not just because he tests out incredible.  Also, these "professionals" whiff constantly, year after year.  They may have more information than us, especially in terms of medical, but that definitely doesn't lead them to make the correct choices all the time.

Edited April 25, 2018 by essential

[MAJBobby]

34 minutes ago, DJB said:

Cry?

Scream ? 

Curl up in fetal position ? 

 

 

Opinions needed so Ill know what to do.

 

 

Edit: If anyone  throws their tv outside please record it so we can enjoy it here.

Thanks

 

I will initially think we just drafted JP Losman part deux. 

 

Then will watch his development because the tools are there with Allen. And he has showed flashes so then the hope will happen that we got one of the few good sub 60% passer instead of getting one of the countless bad sub 60% passers to come in the league 

[KDIGGZ]

13 minutes ago, RFL said:

Im trying to digest your statement. You have like most of us witnessed in retrospect, some of the most dumbass moves over the years in this organization. I have also noticed your post where you played QB, invested much time in charting prospects, watched film etc. A counter on completion rates.......Dan Marino was 52% completion in college.....went 6th QB off the board in ‘83. Why would Allen tip the cart for you?

it's been coming for a while.  it wouldn't be them taking Allen, it would be losing my faith in them by shunning all known analytics and picking someone because they are BIG.  i'm fine with them taking Allen if that is all that's left.  if they traded up to 2 for instance to do it when there are better players available then i can't support a regime that so far out of touch.  it's fine, i think i'm too involved anyhow if something like that would affect me so negatively.  maybe i just need to take a step back.  like you said, we have been through much worse but i think at this point it's starting to take a toll.  i'd love for sundays to be something positive in my life once again like it was when i was a kid watching the 90's Bills.  those are some of my best memories.  hoping for the best!

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I have my order of preference Rosen,Darnold, Mayfield, Allen, Jackson. And, just like anyone who's preference isn't satisfied, I will be disappointed if we don't trade up or acquire Rosen or Darnold somehow. Still Bills fan though and hope that they got it right.

[section122]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

That's fine.  We all have our opinions and individual modes of evaluation.  I don't claim to be an expert.  I really want Darnold, but I think Allen is going to be good.  I worry about Rosen's injury history and lack of pocket presence.  It's not ridiculous, however, to think Rosen will end up the best of the bunch.

 

I also think Darnold will bust   

 

I like Rosen and Mayfield.  Both have competitiveness that is important, production at a high level, and there knocks aren't play based.  Allen has accuracy concerns, Darnold has wind up and turnover concerns, Rudolph has arm concerns, Jackson has passing ability concerns.  Time will tell but I think this class was over hyped because it was supposed to be a great class moreso than it is a great class.  Add in that it appears to be a weak draft and I'm not surprised the qb angle was shoved down our throats.

[CajunBillsBacker]

Rosen is at the top of my list, but I’d be fine with it. If that’s the QB Beane and the scouts have identified, then who am I, a random Joe fan sitting on my couch watching the draft on TV to argue?

 

I do think higher of Allen than most on this board though. He’s my #3 behind Rosen and Mayfield. I think his completion % at Wyoming is blown way out of proportion.

[whatdrought]

38 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

done with the team, not kidding.  at the very least i'll take a 2-3 yr break until this administration is fired.  tomorrow might be my last day here

 

C'mon man... You're better than that. 

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

it's been coming for a while.  it wouldn't be them taking Allen, it would be losing my faith in them by shunning all known analytics and picking someone because they are BIG.  i'm fine with them taking Allen if that is all that's left.  if they traded up to 2 for instance to do it when there are better players available then i can't support a regime that so far out of touch.  it's fine, i think i'm too involved anyhow if something like that would affect me so negatively.  maybe i just need to take a step back.  like you said, we have been through much worse but i think at this point it's starting to take a toll.  i'd love for sundays to be something positive in my life once again like it was when i was a kid watching the 90's Bills.  those are some of my best memories.  hoping for the best!

You need to find a balance with your team where you can remain invested without letting things that feel negative affect you so much. As an avid fan of the Bills since 1968, I know it isn't an easy thing to do; however, it can be done. Good luck....

[whatdrought]

I will react exactly how I would react for Allen, Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, and Rudolph... 

 

"well, that's interesting... Let's see how he plays." 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, essential said:

 

I don't need to defend myself to you but yes.  I've been watching the Bills and following the draft for almost 20 years.  Off the top of my head there have been numerous times where the Bills didn't do what seemed like the obvious choice, professional vs ammeter or not.  Taking Whitner over Ngata, Maybin over Orakpo.  These seemed like obvious bad choices at the time, and proved to be in the long term.  Allen over Rosen seems like an obvious bad choice, amateur or not.  If we take Allen i'll root for him to success, but i'll still think it was the wrong choice.

 

 

Many independent draft experts have Allen as basically a third round prospect, developmental type guy.  I understand you're drafting based on a projection, but his college play doesn't warrant a top 5 pick.  My think with Allen is everyone falling in love with the measurables.  I think that can be a weakness of "pros" and you can't always make a guy into something he's not just because he tests out incredible.  Also, these "professionals" whiff constantly, year after year.  They may have more information than us, especially in terms of medical, but that definitely doesn't lead them to make the correct choices all the time.

 

Dont be offended, if you post on a discussion board, be prepared to discuss and defend your opinions. That's all.

 

I disagree that the differences are so obvious this year, especially when it comes to the science of picking/comparing QB prospects, which is very different from addressing other positions.

 

I'm not high on Allen either, and I personally like Rosen the most, but neither of us know nearly as much as the professionals. And this FO has nothing to do with the old regimes, and has earned the benefit of the doubt, imo.

 

[elltrain22]

I'd be disappointed, but after that, I'd be happy to have Allen on  our team.

[RFL]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

it's been coming for a while.  it wouldn't be them taking Allen, it would be losing my faith in them by shunning all known analytics and picking someone because they are BIG.  i'm fine with them taking Allen if that is all that's left.  if they traded up to 2 for instance to do it when there are better players available then i can't support a regime that so far out of touch.  it's fine, i think i'm too involved anyhow if something like that would affect me so negatively.  maybe i just need to take a step back.  like you said, we have been through much worse but i think at this point it's starting to take a toll.  i'd love for sundays to be something positive in my life once again like it was when i was a kid watching the 90's Bills.  those are some of my best memories.  hoping for the best!

I hear ya.....’wide right’ I cried. The Bills were THE BEST football team in those 4 years, but in sports it comes down to winning the last game, they couldnt close the deal and get the glory they deserved. 

 

I couldnt tell you how many times Ive re-watched the ‘comeback’ Oilers/Bills game.  I do it privately because of my emotion lol.

 

Yep, I hear ya.....Go Bills!

 

[MarlinTheMagician]

5 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

it's been coming for a while.  it wouldn't be them taking Allen, it would be losing my faith in them by shunning all known analytics and picking someone because they are BIG.  i'm fine with them taking Allen if that is all that's left.  if they traded up to 2 for instance to do it when there are better players available then i can't support a regime that so far out of touch.  it's fine, i think i'm too involved anyhow if something like that would affect me so negatively.  maybe i just need to take a step back.  like you said, we have been through much worse but i think at this point it's starting to take a toll.  i'd love for sundays to be something positive in my life once again like it was when i was a kid watching the 90's Bills.  those are some of my best memories.  hoping for the best!

 

Yeah dude, you are here a lot just like me.  Just enjoy it.  I have been watching them since the 1960s - so your 1990s tenure leaves you many years of suffering before you throw up your hands.  This management group knows what their doing.  Whether it is Allen they want or someone else (including Rosen, who I really don't want), they will have done their diligence.  We are allowed to be excited about whomever they pick until performance on the field proves them wrong.  No one knows who the right call is.

[Homey D. Clown]

44 minutes ago, DJB said:

Cry?

Scream ? 

Curl up in fetal position ? 

 

 

Opinions needed so Ill know what to do.

 

 

Edit: If anyone  throws their tv outside please record it so we can enjoy it here.

Thanks

 

I'll be more disappointed if they trade up for anyone.

[Dr. Who]

9 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

I also think Darnold will bust   

 

I like Rosen and Mayfield.  Both have competitiveness that is important, production at a high level, and there knocks aren't play based.  Allen has accuracy concerns, Darnold has wind up and turnover concerns, Rudolph has arm concerns, Jackson has passing ability concerns.  Time will tell but I think this class was over hyped because it was supposed to be a great class moreso than it is a great class.  Add in that it appears to be a weak draft and I'm not surprised the qb angle was shoved down our throats.

Another fella ranked the qbs 1 - 6.  The only one I agreed with was Jackson at 5.  I am more of a gambler.  I do think Mayfield and Rosen right now are the best qbs, so I am guessing at plausible potential, right or wrong.

[17 Josh Allen]

Give Josh Allen and the Bills front office the benefit 

of the doubt. 

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, Homey D. Clown said:

 

I'll be more disappointed if they trade up for anyone.

If they stick at 12, Jackson and Rudolph are likely the only ones available.  Personally, I'm not fine with that.

[essential]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Dont be offended, if you post on a discussion board, be prepared to discuss and defend your opinions. That's all.

 

I disagree that the differences are so obvious this year, especially when it comes to the science of picking/comparing QB prospects, which is very different from addressing other positions.

 

I'm not high on Allen either, and I personally like Rosen the most, but neither of us know nearly as much as the professionals. And this FO has nothing to do with the old regimes, and has earned the benefit of the doubt, imo.

 

 

Oh, i'm not offended and I'm fine to be part of the discussion, but I guess that's where our biggest difference is ... I think the difference it is obvious, and I agree with others that Allen has very high bust potential.  To me he's EJ ... a big strong armed guy who's going to put in the effort required to succeed off the field, but isn't consistent enough on the field to win in this league.  I could be wrong, but I don't always think the "pros" know more.  They have access to more information sure, but that doesn't always lead to the right choice.

[Jauronimo]

51 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

done with the team, not kidding.  at the very least i'll take a 2-3 yr break until this administration is fired.  tomorrow might be my last day here

Tomorrow I might win the lottery.  You're not going anywhere.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, DJB said:

Cry?

Scream ? 

Curl up in fetal position ? 

 

Opinions needed so Ill know what to do.

 

Edit: If anyone  throws their tv outside please record it so we can enjoy it here.

Thanks

 

You know, at this point as a Bills fan, I've lived through a fair bit of draft hideousness. 

I've lived through drafting Maybin instead of Orakpo; CJ Spiller instead of Pierre-Paul or even Alualu.

 

I've lived through Nix's sole significant draft contribution to the need for a QB being to neglect the position completely from 2010 to 2013, prating sententiously about how "if you wait to get a QB until you need one, you've waited too long" while drafting Aaron Williams ahead of Andy Dalton or Colin Kaepernick, TJ Graham ahead of Russell Wilson.

(Note that these weren't huge gambling picks, these were reasonable shots that could have been taken on the 2nd day of the draft.)

 

So what will I do?

 

1) I will try to suspend judgement and hope for the best, but inside me, I will lose a big whaling chunk of trust in the judgement of our shiny hoped-for Savior FO.  Because like many Bills fans, during the past 2 decades I have come to the reluctant conclusion that we have had many FO iterations where I could build a better draft board based upon the combined assessments of various draft pundits, than our FO(s) have actually done some years - this isn't something I've come to through hubris or over-confidence in my fan beliefs, but from years of saying "WTF?  Why did they do that?" and then seeing those doubts in our FO play out on the field.

2) I will do what all good Bills fans fall back eventually during these times of trial - I'll get the popcorn.

 

3) I will be ecstatic if my doubts about Allen turn out to be mistaken.

 

 

[section122]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Another fella ranked the qbs 1 - 6.  The only one I agreed with was Jackson at 5.  I am more of a gambler.  I do think Mayfield and Rosen right now are the best qbs, so I am guessing at plausible potential, right or wrong.

 

Yeah Mayfield and Rosen I think will be good.

 

Jackson, Darnold, and Rudolph I think could be good.

 

Allen I just don't see it.

 

That's how I have them tiered.  Just my personal rankings.  I would be okay with Allen at 12 or even if Rosen, Mayfield, and Darnold are gone.  I just wouldn't feel good about Allen over any of those 3.  It would feel same old Bills to me.  I'll give this regime the benefit of the doubt and hope they are right I just won't feel great about it if that makes sense.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, essential said:

 

Oh, i'm not offended and I'm fine to be part of the discussion, but I guess that's where our biggest difference is ... I think the difference it is obvious, and I agree with others that Allen has very high bust potential.  To me he's EJ ... a big strong armed guy who's going to put in the effort required to succeed off the field, but isn't consistent enough on the field to win in this league.  I could be wrong, but I don't always think the "pros" know more.  They have access to more information sure, but that doesn't always lead to the right choice.

 

Not to get to abstract or off topic, but there are only ~1500 players in the NFL. The majority of new prospects don't make it. There should be a higher success rate in the earlier rounds, but it's not a guarantee for any FO. My point is, betting against picks is easy money and we all look better than the pros using hindsight.

 

I would be shocked if they rank Allen over Rosen, but I would trust they had a reason (health, interviewed poorly, etc (info that we'll never have)). I'd put the FO on a very short leash, but I'd give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

[Go-Bills]

1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

done with the team, not kidding.  at the very least i'll take a 2-3 yr break until this administration is fired.  tomorrow might be my last day here

Why?

[KDIGGZ]

3 minutes ago, Go-Bills said:

Why?

see the explanation at the top of the page.  i might need a break

[Putin]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

Cry?

Scream ? 

Curl up in fetal position ? 

 

 

Opinions needed so Ill know what to do.

 

 

Edit: If anyone  throws their tv outside please record it so we can enjoy it here.

Thanks

Yeeeeees !!!!! ??

[NewEraBills]

Here is my reaction

 

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Gavin in Va Beach said:

I will trust the process.....

 

 

 

 

...and drink heavily

I will trust the process, but I will be pissed if Rosen goes to the Pats and extremely pissed if he goes to Miami.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I'll wait 2-3 years before forming a judgment. 

 

I would come to that point but not at the moment it goes down

[NewEraBills]

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

done with the team, not kidding.  at the very least i'll take a 2-3 yr break until this administration is fired.  tomorrow might be my last day here

 

Its in your blood you can never leave

[Epstein's Mother]

Only explanation:

 

Rosen's already gone.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Epstein's Mother

[peterpan]

1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

done with the team, not kidding.  at the very least i'll take a 2-3 yr break until this administration is fired.  tomorrow might be my last day here

I'm along that line too.  Especially if the Pats get Rosen.  Say hello to another 20 years like the last 20 where the pats beat us with a record 32-2

 

Rosen is the best to come out in years.  He is already the second best QB in the AFCE.

 

Drafting Rosen is like drafting a super bowl apperence

Edited April 25, 2018 by peterpan