DT Star Lotulelei to Bills!

[PaattMaann]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

So you're saying NaVorro Bowman, Avery Williamson and Korey Toomer aren't better than Tanner Valejo?

 

Tahir Whitehead and Anthony Hitchens aren't better than Deon Lacey?

 

Yikes.

 

you may want to check who is actually still available to sign lol

 

And how do you know the Bills werent in on some of those players before they decided to sign elsewhere? 

 

And I am not necessarily saying some guys left arent better than what we have currently, but I AM saying they arent better than what we might have after the draft / cuts from other teams.

 

Roster building is bigger than the first few days of free agency. And again, signing Star doesn't eliminate us from ANYTHING we want to do. 

[akm0404]

I had it at 5 for 55 w/ 28 guaranteed so I was a tiny bit high, but definitely a market value deal.  Great signing that continues to make incremental improvement to the overall quality of players on the roster.

 

Could he get outplayed by a much cheaper player on a rookie deal at some point in the next 5 years?  Welcome to literally every position on every team in the NFL.  You need a mix of young and veteran players with different strengths and weaknesses and personalities.

 

Two thumbs up.

[Wayne Arnold]

42 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

you may want to check who is actually still available to sign lol

 

And how do you know the Bills werent in on some of those players before they decided to sign elsewhere? 

 

And I am not necessarily saying some guys left arent better than what we have currently, but I AM saying they arent better than what we might have after the draft / cuts from other teams.

 

Roster building is bigger than the first few days of free agency. And again, signing Star doesn't eliminate us from ANYTHING we want to do. 

 

All of those guys were available when free agency started. Bowman and Toomer still are.

 

Keep in mind, I'm addressing the absurdity that is the "We overpaid for a guy because we have to spend the money SOMEWHERE" mantra. As if this team has bottomless cap space and are without massive holes on the roster and there aren't good players available to fill them.

[ddaryl]

10 hours ago, Logic said:

Good golly miss Molly, Bills fans are hard to please sometimes.

 

 

Just the madden lads, stats boys and the uneducated in general. In 3 years the contract will be a bargian in comparison

 

Solid deal lots of incentives that reduces the pain if we have to or choose to cut bait.

 

and the under appreciation for a guy who can absorb 2 + blockers and still hold the LOS is lost by fans who think the entire DL needs to produce stats like tackles and sacks.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by ddaryl

[akm0404]

Another point for the "we should have signed the other guy instead! He's better!" crowd:

 

The Bills are not entitled to sign any particular player.  There are 31 other teams, and they want the good players too.  Free agents with market value may not want to sign with the Bills for any number of reasons.  You don't just get to magically take whoever you want by offering $1 more than the competition.

Edited March 16, 2018 by akm0404

[PaattMaann]

21 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

All of those guys were available when free agency started. Bowman and Toomer still are.

 

Keep in mind, I'm addressing the absurdity that is the "We overpaid for a guy because we have to spend the money SOMEWHERE" mantra. As if this team has bottomless cap space and are without massive holes on the roster and there aren't good players available to fill them.

 

ahhhh gotcha gotcha. And I agree with the absurdity of that statement. I disagree that we overpaid though. Pretty much the going rate for DTs. I understand people say "where are his stats, why is he worth that?" But then if you watch the games you see his impact. There is a real reason carolinas linebackers have been able to FEAST the past few seasons, and his name is Star. There are reasons they have been able to pressure the QB with rushing four, and his name is Star. I look forward to our linebackers (even if they are Lorenzo, Tanner and Milano lol) being able to do that as well. I look forward to our DEs being able to get sacks because our DT isnt being pushed around but holds his ground at the LOS so there isnt anywhere for the QB to step up to avoid the rush. 

 

As far as cap space goes, you can always find money to pay guys you want, alwaaayssss. Look at the Chiefs who were in cap hell, made a couple moves and then paid Sammy a billion dollars a season. Cap space is over rated. Star's contract wont prevent us from signing anyone we want to. 

[dgr81]

Bills should have looked at Dontari Poe.

 

Poe is younger, better, and Carolina got him at a better price.

 

Bills overpaid for one of Beane's former Panther crushes.

[Jerome007]

While I'm kind of stunned that he is to be the Bills highest paid player (what???), it's all based on his performances. He better be damn good at that price. And yes I get it doesn't mean in his personal stats but in the overall mayhem he creates. But he better produce!

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

Not super crazy about the contract but he is a good player at a need postion.

[billsfan89]

10 hours ago, Mountain Man said:

At DT we couldn't afford to be fussy. Sometimes your need to just sort a problem. Is it a bit rich as a contract? Probably. Is it an extreme overpay? No. Right now I'd much rather accept we overpaid by a couple of million and know we addressed the issue, than sit with a few extra million and a massive hole at DT

 

I think it is a pretty big overpay but at least if we are overpaying for a player it is exactly the type of player that this team needs and a player the coaches know. For everyone saying that we should have signed Poe instead ignores the fact that he signed for 9 million per year (Only 1 million less) and who knows how much it would have taken to get him to Buffalo. Also, Star and Poe are similar players both in style of play and quality of play. I think Poe is a little better and given the choice of Poe for 1 million cheaper or Star I would rather have Poe. But that isn't the choice the Bills had to make. The Bills had to make the choice between what Star was willing to take to come here and what other DT's like Poe were willing to take. Who honestly knows who would have been cheaper in that scenario?

 

I was hoping that Star's number would come in around 7 million maybe 8 at the most. But McD wants the guy and he is a good player, it is a manageable deal to get out of after year 2 and super easy after year 3. 

 

 

[OCinBuffalo]

Looking at what film I could find...

 

...seems like this guy does the job that lets other people get stats. He doesn't get moved much on a double team, so he can still fill a gap and a half, and MOST of the time he doesn't allow one of the double teamers to get to the next level. 

 

He also gets a lot of push, which disrupts plays i.e. making a RB run wider to hit a gap, pushing interior lineman back towards the QB so he can't step up, and cutback contain against RBs. None of those things usually result in big plays. I see that kind of stuff, which may or may not be his role. He doesn't always accomplish what appears to be his assignment. Then again, a lot of times its hard to tell exactly what his assignment is. 

 

We're really going to have to wait and see on this guy, more than normal.

[billsfan89]

11 minutes ago, OCinBuffalo said:

Looking at what film I could find...

 

...seems like this guy does the job that lets other people get stats. He doesn't get moved much on a double team, so he can still fill a gap and a half, and MOST of the time he doesn't allow one of the double teamers to get to the next level. 

 

He also gets a lot of push, which disrupts plays i.e. making a RB run wider to hit a gap, pushing interior lineman back towards the QB so he can't step up, and cutback contain against RBs. None of those things usually result in big plays. I see that kind of stuff, which may or may not be his role. He doesn't always accomplish what appears to be his assignment. Then again, a lot of times its hard to tell exactly what his assignment is. 

 

We're really going to have to wait and see on this guy, more than normal.

1

 

If there aren't huge rushing holes right in the middle of our defense often in the coming season I think that this signing will have accomplished what it set out to do. This signing is a bit too right for my blood but it is exactly what the doctor ordered in terms of need on defense and it is a player the coaching staff knows and trusts. If you are going to overpay at least do it on the right kind of player that fits one of your biggest defensive needs. 

 

Star's job is to clog the middle, eat double teams while holding the line, and to disrupt the interior of the line of scrimmage. If he can do that at a high level the Bills rushing defense will be heavily improved from last season esp after the Dareus trade. 

[ColoradoBills]

17 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Where is LABillz when you need him?

 

People worry way too much about contracts. Every year on every team there are about one third that don't live up to their deal, a third that are about right, and a third that way outplay what they are paid. It evens out.

 

And he is not a run stuffer only. In fact, his best attribute is a pocket collapser without needing to be a pass rusher. Last year, because we got no push upfront from the DTs on a regular basis, when Hughes would do what Hughes does, QBs would very often step up a yard or two and avoid him, then have a lot of time to throw. Star will muck that idea up, which is an enormous difference.

 

2 hours ago, OCinBuffalo said:

Looking at what film I could find...

 

...seems like this guy does the job that lets other people get stats. He doesn't get moved much on a double team, so he can still fill a gap and a half, and MOST of the time he doesn't allow one of the double teamers to get to the next level. 

 

He also gets a lot of push, which disrupts plays i.e. making a RB run wider to hit a gap, pushing interior lineman back towards the QB so he can't step up, and cutback contain against RBs. None of those things usually result in big plays. I see that kind of stuff, which may or may not be his role. He doesn't always accomplish what appears to be his assignment. Then again, a lot of times its hard to tell exactly what his assignment is. 

 

We're really going to have to wait and see on this guy, more than normal.

 

Both you guys defined the reason he was brought in to a tee!

If he succeeds doing this on most plays he is worth the money.

If he doesn't he will be overpaid.

We will know in camp.

[3rdand12]

My opinion away back was Poe, Star and that other guy would really help  The  McD Method.

f the money.

Key fit up.

 fix the LBs 

and Draft one of those future HoF LBs in the first and a Probowling LB early enough but later.
 

Great pick up.

 Go Bills

[Logic]

12 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

"You've gotta spend the money SOMEWHERE" is the dumbest excuse for overpaying a player. Good Lord.

 

This team still needs two starting linebackers, a right side of the offensive line, and at least one starting wide receiver with speed. How about we save a little on a bad defensive lineman and spend that money on one or more of those positions instead?

a BAD defensive lineman? REALLY?! I suppose you watched him play a bunch before you came to this conclusion?

Also...I hate to tell you this, but if you honestly thought the Bills could fill all of the roster holes you mentioned in one free agency period, then you're being unrealistic. Let's see what the draft and UDFA period bring.

By the way, They're spending about HALF on Star what they were spending on Dareus, and they have an extra 5th round pick and a player with a better attitude to show for it.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

"You've gotta spend the money SOMEWHERE" is the dumbest excuse for overpaying a player. Good Lord.

 

This team still needs two starting linebackers, a right side of the offensive line, and at least one starting wide receiver with speed. How about we save a little on a bad defensive lineman and spend that money on one or more of those positions instead?

 

Wayne again taking PFF has gospel.

[Wayne Arnold]

31 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Wayne again taking PFF has gospel.

 

Yeah, it's not as if NFL teams use their service. Oh wait, they do.

[bouds]

36 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Yeah, it's not as if NFL teams use their service. Oh wait, they do.

PFF loves Tyrod, I'm sure you agree with that right?

 

For the record, I agree with you on Star.

Edited March 17, 2018 by bouds

[Wayne Arnold]

6 minutes ago, bouds said:

PFF loves Tyrod, I'm sure you agree with that right?

 

Nope.

[Bobby Hooks]

Bills are better on the defensive line than they were during the season. 

 

Beane & Mcdermott have made excellent choices since joining the Bills. 

 

Beane and Mcdermott have first hand knowledge of this player. 

 

1. Better today than last season 

2. Beane & McDermott have made excellent choices

3. Beane & Mcdermott know more about this player than most

 

In summation, Beane and Mcdermott have made excellent choices, signed a player they know a lot about, (remember the part about the good choices so far), the line is better now than it was last year. 

 

Did i miss something? 

 

 

 

 

[MPT]

10 hours ago, dgr81 said:

Bills should have looked at Dontari Poe.

 

Poe is younger, better, and Carolina got him at a better price.

 

Bills overpaid for one of Beane's former Panther crushes.

 

Agree that we paid a premium for a former Panther, but we don't know that they didn't look at Poe. He may have just wanted to play with Short and Kuechly instead.

[Boca BIlls]

Squaak! Overpaid Squaak! Overpaid... The parrots are out.

[bigduke6]

for the people complaining about this contract vs keeping Dareus,  you forget the most important part,   Dareus wasnt reliable.  end of story.

 

mbe we overpayed a bit for Star,   but his career is about availability.   something Dareus couldnt accomplish.     Dareus was talented,   when he played....

[JerseyBills]

On 3/15/2018 at 7:21 PM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I'm okay with it as structured.  He might not see the back end of the deal. 

What are his cap hits by year? (Already saw, disregard)

On 3/15/2018 at 7:32 PM, buffaloboyinATL said:

He WILL make this Defense better. Worth it.

Our DL could actually be dangerous. 

Hemakes those around him better...

Hughes and Murphy are both very talented and could become a nice little pass rushing duo. 

Also allows Kyle and Adolphus to penetrate the OL, something both are very good at. I'd grab a DT by Rd 3 as well .. 

He shores up a bad run D as well and is Always available! 

Edited March 17, 2018 by JerseyBills

[Royale with Cheese]

11 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Nope.

 

So PFF is legit when it comes to Star but not about Tyrod?  

12 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Yeah, it's not as if NFL teams use their service. Oh wait, they do.

 

LOL...it’s a $35.00 subscription.  If you this is the tool that use to evaluate LOL.

 

By the way, since you think it’s gospel, you must agree that Rodgers game here was worse than Taylor’s against Carolina.  

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/181760/pro-football-focus-misses-mark-on-aaron-rodgers-grade

 

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

12 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Yeah, it's not as if NFL teams use their service. Oh wait, they do.

 

This Is misleading. PFF does both objective and subjective evaluations. The grades are a small part of what they do and players/coaches mostly criticize that part of it. Teams subscribe for the objective side, the analytics. Here's an example:

 

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/27/nfl-analytics-what-nfl-teams-use-pff-stats-llc-tendencies-player-tracking-injuries-chip-kelly

 

On the personnel side, there are clear examples of where the numbers are leading to change. In 2009, Dolphins linebacker Joey Porter had nine sacks, but those sacks accounted for an unusually high percentage of his hurries. The Cardinals signed him, at 33, to a three-year, $24.5 million deal anyway. He regressed (6 sacks total over the next two seasons), as the numbers indicated he would, and Porter was out of football before the third year of the contract.

 

Teams aren't subscribing to PFF to find out what subjective number grade they have to Joey Porter in those games. They subscribe for data like this. Their grades are useless to NFL evaluators who have access to all-22 footage and actually know the assignments.

 

Another good article about it here:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/09/20/__trashed/

[thebandit27]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This Is misleading. PFF does both objective and subjective evaluations. The grades are a small part of what they do and players/coaches mostly criticize that part of it. Teams subscribe for the objective side, the analytics. Here's an example:

 

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/27/nfl-analytics-what-nfl-teams-use-pff-stats-llc-tendencies-player-tracking-injuries-chip-kelly

 

 

 

 

Teams aren't subscribing to PFF to find out what subjective number grade they have to Joey Porter in those games. They subscribe for data like this. Their grades are useless to NFL evaluators who have access to all-22 footage and actually know the assignments.

 

Another good article about it here:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2017/09/20/__trashed/

 

Right--it's mostly about their curation of data; teams apply their own analysis 

[billsbackto81]

9 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

What are his cap hits by year? (Already saw, disregard)

Our DL could actually be dangerous. 

He makes those around him better...

Hughes and Murphy are both very talented and could become a nice little pass rushing duo. 

Also allows Kyle and Adolphus to penetrate the OL, something both are very good at. I'd grab a DT by Rd 3 as well .. 

He shores up a bad run D as well and is Always available! 

You know what makes players like Short, Davis and Kuechley better players? Superior talent to what we have in comparison. If you think Star is going to make what we have which is yet TBD Pro Bowl caliber then I have no words. 

 

Quoted from an article I agree with 100 percent : You'd think that teams would have learned from the Ndamukong Suh and Albert Haynesworth disasters by now, but apparently not. 

The thing is, Suh and Haynesworth were infinitely superior to Lotulelei. Both players, at the time they signed their deals, were seen as stellar defensive tackles who could both stuff the run and generate heavy interior heat on quarterbacks. Lotulelei, conversely, is just a one-dimensional defensive tackle. He's strong against the run, but doesn't produce much of a pass rush. 

I don't understand the money in this deal. Heading into free agency, I thought Lotulelei would get something like a 3-year deal worth $10 million. There's no way he's even worth half the sum Buffalo gave him. It's nice that he played under Sean McDermott in Carolina.

 

 

[Starr Almighty]

Is it me or did Star come off like he's lazy in his presser? He gave me the impression like he could careless and only came here so he wouldn't have to put in the work to learn a new defense. Somebody please tell me I'm overreacting. For some reason DTs don't have the best attitude and work ethic sooo... His presser worried me.

[Ittakestime]

20 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said:

Is it me or did Star come off like he's lazy in his presser? He gave me the impression like he could careless and only came here so he wouldn't have to put in the work to learn a new defense. Somebody please tell me I'm overreacting. For some reason DTs don't have the best attitude and work ethic sooo... His presser worried me.

 

My Carolina friends said he played lazy too.  Very frustrating they said.

[akm0404]

30 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

I don't understand the money in this deal. Heading into free agency, I thought Lotulelei would get something like a 3-year deal worth $10 million. There's no way he's even worth half the sum Buffalo gave him. It's nice that he played under Sean McDermott in Carolina.

 

We definitely all agree - it seems that there are  some gaps in your understanding if you thought he was going to get a 3-year deal worth $10 million total lololol.

Edited March 17, 2018 by akm0404

[OldTimer1960]

This thread is ridiculous - all sorts of “experts” who know that the Bills overpaid for Lotulelei.  Some PFF run stop% quoted -what exactly is that measuring?

 

The comparison to Albert Haynesworth is really off base - at least in my opinion.  Haynesworth was a talented problem child, Lotulelei, by most accounts, is a good teammate and worker whose role is to clog the middle in run defense and do a little pocket pushing on pass plays.

 

We are witnessing the making of the next TBD whipping boy and he hasn’t even played a down here. 

[HappyDays]

34 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

I don't understand the money in this deal. Heading into free agency, I thought Lotulelei would get something like a 3-year deal worth $10 million.

 

That's way way off, are you crazy? Spotrac had his market value at $8.4 million per year:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/star-lotulelei-12294/market-value/

 

So we overpaid by $1.6 million per year. For a DT in free agency that's not bad at all.

[billsbackto81]

12 minutes ago, akm0404 said:

 

We definitely all agree - it seems that there are  some gaps in your understanding if you thought he was going to get a 3-year deal worth $10 million total lololol.

3 for 10 is ridiculous. I don't want it to seem I don't like the pick up because I do and let's face it, everybody expected it. I saw him as a max 3 for 20 type. Team has soooooo many holes to spend that much on him.

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's way way off, are you crazy? Spotrac had his market value at $8.4 million per year:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/star-lotulelei-12294/market-value/

 

So we overpaid by $1.6 million per year. For a DT in free agency that's not bad at all.

That figure was quoted in the article and not my opinion. I feel he's a 3 for 20 type player.

[Victory Formation]

10 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

3 for 10 is ridiculous. I don't want it to seem I don't like the pick up because I do and let's face it, everybody expected it. I saw him as a max 3 for 20 type. Team has soooooo many holes to spend that much on him.

That figure was quoted in the article and not my opinion. I feel he's a 3 for 20 type player.

I was expecting (I was hoping for) 5 years 40 million total, so about 8 million AAV. We over paid slightly but he fits the scheme to a tee and he knows McDermott's system very well, but that's a little high for a run clogger and I worry if he sees year 3 or 4 of his contract, 10 million a year is a lot of pressure to live up to.

 

I'm hoping that we pay him the 20 million over the first 2 years and then ideally he restructures down the line as he gets older and loses a step. Star may find himself at 30 years old making 10 million a year and Beane asks him to take a 2 million pay cut in the future and he may have to take it because he knows he won't get a better deal on the market, but that big ass 50 million dollar contract at least gets him in Buffalo.

 

Then there is a chance he actually lives up to it.

[OCinBuffalo]

On 3/16/2018 at 6:32 PM, ColoradoBills said:

 

 

Both you guys defined the reason he was brought in to a tee!

If he succeeds doing this on most plays he is worth the money.

If he doesn't he will be overpaid.

We will know in camp.

well I know this much: if Kelly and I agree on something, then that something has high chance of being true. Why? Because normally we see the world very differently.

[ALF]

to replace Star

Dontari Poe signed a 3 year, $28,000,000 contract with the Carolina Panthers, including a $10,000,000 signing bonus, $13,300,000 guaranteed,

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/dontari-poe-9821/