Could Cleveland do what San Diego did in 2004?

[Dkollidas]

For those who don’t recall:

Basically Eli Manning was the #1 QB. 

-San Diego had the first overall pick.

-Eli said he’d rather sit out a year than play for the Chargers.

-San Diego drafted Manning, and made a deal with the Giants after the fact. The Giants, selecting Philip Rivers, made the following trade;

 

The New York Giants received:

• Eli Manning, QB

The San Diego Chargers received:

• Philip Rivers, QB
• 2004 3rd-round pick (Nate Kaeding, PK)
• 2005 1st-round pick (Shawne Merriman, OLB)
• 2005 5th-round pick (traded to TB for Roman Oben, OT)

 

Any chance the Browns do this with Rosen? Maybe select him 1st overall, and either find a partner to swap QB’s with, or since they have the pick, take another guy at #4 and then trade Rosen? 

 

I know now it’s complicated and unlikely, but if they believe he’s the best quarterback, I could see their reasoning for taking the player regardless of what he says about playing for them.

[whatdrought]

I don't know that there's that big of a consensus that Rosen is the best in the class (I actually see more that say Darnold is better). I think that situation happened because there was a perceived gap between Manning and the other guys, which, could be argued to have been a result of the name alone. 

 

So I don't see it, but this offseason is probably going to be crazy in several ways so nothing would surprise me. 

[LABILLBACKER]

15 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I don't know that there's that big of a consensus that Rosen is the best in the class (I actually see more that say Darnold is better). I think that situation happened because there was a perceived gap between Manning and the other guys, which, could be argued to have been a result of the name alone. 

 

So I don't see it, but this offseason is probably going to be crazy in several ways so nothing would surprise me. 

In the long run Darnold will be better. Less tude, more durability. Darnold is a grinder who will play hard no matter who takes him. Rosen on the other hand could pull an Eli....

[Doc Brown]

It's possible, but it's more likely the Giants and Browns would work out a deal before hand to avoid that awkward picture.

 

[BobbyC81]

Eli doesn’t have a poker face. Remember the shot of him in the suite at the Super Bowl when he realized Big Bro Peyton was about to tie him in titles won?

[papazoid]

i'm hoping the Browns pick a QB with BOTH picks #1 & #4

 

that would be awesome

 

I either get a kings ransom for #4.....or i'm picking a QB and trading later

[Buddo]

I think it's something that has to be given a bit more serious consideration, than perhaps is happening. The Browns are in a rare situation, where they could do all sorts of things, not the least of which is take 2 QBs in their first 4 picks.

 

Then wait for the trade offers.

 

Thing is, they could wait to trade until after this years draft, and go for players and future picks from another team - and unless they get some serious 'coin' to move away from the #4 pick, I think I'd be tempted to do that.

 

Of course, as with just about everything else, we will get a much better feel for it as a possibility, once the FA QB carousel has spun around a few times.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Absolutely. I just hope that they are smart enough to demand more than the Chargers did, and don’t draft a kicker in the third round. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Seems in today's day and age of draft trades, would take much more than what the Giants gave up back then.  Thought I do think post draft takes leverage away from the team moving down as you have much more limited trade partners.

[Matt_In_NH]

They should be able to trade out of their second pick and get a lot for it.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

For those who don’t recall:

Basically Eli Manning was the #1 QB. 

-San Diego had the first overall pick.

-Eli said he’d rather sit out a year than play for the Chargers.

-San Diego drafted Manning, and made a deal with the Giants after the fact. The Giants, selecting Philip Rivers, made the following trade;

 

The New York Giants received:

• Eli Manning, QB

The San Diego Chargers received:

• Philip Rivers, QB
• 2004 3rd-round pick (Nate Kaeding, PK)
• 2005 1st-round pick (Shawne Merriman, OLB)
• 2005 5th-round pick (traded to TB for Roman Oben, OT)

 

Any chance the Browns do this with Rosen? Maybe select him 1st overall, and either find a partner to swap QB’s with, or since they have the pick, take another guy at #4 and then trade Rosen? 

 

I know now it’s complicated and unlikely, but if they believe he’s the best quarterback, I could see their reasoning for taking the player regardless of what he says about playing for them.

 

 

Posted for attribution:

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/12/24/16815914/nfl-draft-2018-josh-rosen-browns-trade-giants-eli-manning-scenario

[corta765]

I personally think they are more sold on Darnold then Rosen by a little. Rosen is the most pro ready QB in terms of skill and playing in a pro style offense, but Mayfield to me has the safer floor which to me is a QB equal to Joe Flacco pre ACL injury. Rosen I think could have higher upside but I could see him potentially flunking out in the wrong situation, I don't think Mayfield would flunk out.

[RochesterRob]

9 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

For those who don’t recall:

Basically Eli Manning was the #1 QB. 

-San Diego had the first overall pick.

-Eli said he’d rather sit out a year than play for the Chargers.

-San Diego drafted Manning, and made a deal with the Giants after the fact. The Giants, selecting Philip Rivers, made the following trade;

 

The New York Giants received:

• Eli Manning, QB

The San Diego Chargers received:

• Philip Rivers, QB
• 2004 3rd-round pick (Nate Kaeding, PK)
• 2005 1st-round pick (Shawne Merriman, OLB)
• 2005 5th-round pick (traded to TB for Roman Oben, OT)

 

Any chance the Browns do this with Rosen? Maybe select him 1st overall, and either find a partner to swap QB’s with, or since they have the pick, take another guy at #4 and then trade Rosen? 

 

I know now it’s complicated and unlikely, but if they believe he’s the best quarterback, I could see their reasoning for taking the player regardless of what he says about playing for them.

  Agree with those who say that there is not a consensus number one pick out there in terms of QB to get a big ransom for a given QB.  Also, that Eli benefitted from the family pedigree without necessarily carrying the burden of proof just about any other QB is subjected to.

[BmarvB]

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

i'm hoping the Browns pick a QB with BOTH picks #1 & #4

 

that would be awesome

 

I either get a kings ransom for #4.....or i'm picking a QB and trading later

That would make too much sense for the Browns

[Tipster19]

2 hours ago, papazoid said:

i'm hoping the Browns pick a QB with BOTH picks #1 & #4

 

that would be awesome

 

I either get a kings ransom for #4.....or i'm picking a QB and trading later

I like this thinking, it’s strategic. I’ll take it a step further. What if Cleveland traded up from the #4 spot to the #2? The trade up would not be as astronomical for Cleveland as it would be for everyone else other than the Colts who currently holds the #3 overall pick. Cleveland also holds the most picks (12) in the 2018 NFL Draft so they do hold quite a bit of firepower if they did want to make such a bold move. Could you imagine the leverage the Browns would have in this draft if they held the #1 AND the #2 overall picks??!!! Wow!

[KDIGGZ]

There doesn't seem to be a consensus on who the best QB is in this class.  From what I have seen, there's 4 top guys and then there's everyone else.  Different teams covet different players out of those top 4.  Browns seems most interested in Darnold, Allen, and Mayfield.  Bills seem most interested in Darnold, Allen, Rosen.  The top guy is going to be whoever the Browns think is the top guy and I think whoever picks next will be very happy with who they get from the other 3.  I have Rosen as far and away the best of the bunch but as has been pointed out, he has some injury and attitude concerns.  He may or may not have a long successful career but I think he is going to be the best QB when healthy and on the field.  But you can make an argument for any of the top 4 guys.  Allen is the most gifted, Mayfield is going to leave it all on the field, Darnold is just a very nice player overall but not great at any one thing.  Everyone is going to be waiting to see who the Browns take at 1 and then from there we will see if any teams have 1 of the other 3 high enough on their board to trade up to get one.

2 hours ago, papazoid said:

i'm hoping the Browns pick a QB with BOTH picks #1 & #4

 

that would be awesome

 

I either get a kings ransom for #4.....or i'm picking a QB and trading later

that would be awesome...if you are the Browns, but not good for us!  I want 1 of the 4 but I don't want the Browns holding them for ransom.  they really could afford to keep both players on the roster if nobody is willing to trade their entire draft to get one.  then from there see who is the starter and then trade the other guy next year.  sneaky sneaky

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

There doesn't seem to be a consensus on who the best QB is in this class.  From what I have seen, there's 4 top guys and then there's everyone else.  Different teams covet different players out of those top 4.  Browns seems most interested in Darnold, Allen, and Mayfield.  Bills seem most interested in Darnold, Allen, Rosen.  The top guy is going to be whoever the Browns think is the top guy and I think whoever picks next will be very happy with who they get from the other 3.  I have Rosen as far and away the best of the bunch but as has been pointed out, he has some injury and attitude concerns.  He may or may not have a long successful career but I think he is going to be the best QB when healthy and on the field.  But you can make an argument for any of the top 4 guys.  Allen is the most gifted, Mayfield is going to leave it all on the field, Darnold is just a very nice player overall but not great at any one thing.  Everyone is going to be waiting to see who the Browns take at 1 and then from there we will see if any teams have 1 of the other 3 high enough on their board to trade up to get one.

that would be awesome...if you are the Browns, but not good for us!  I want 1 of the 4 but I don't want the Browns holding them for ransom.  they really could afford to keep both players on the roster if nobody is willing to trade their entire draft to get one.  then from there see who is the starter and then trade the other guy next year.  sneaky sneaky

  It would be a ballsy move but I don't think they risk letting Barkley slip through their net.  Barkley will come in handy for those AFC North games in Nov and Dec.  

Edited February 20, 2018 by RochesterRob

[Luxy312]

1 hour ago, Tipster19 said:

I like this thinking, it’s strategic. I’ll take it a step further. What if Cleveland traded up from the #4 spot to the #2? The trade up would not be as astronomical for Cleveland as it would be for everyone else other than the Colts who currently holds the #3 overall pick. Cleveland also holds the most picks (12) in the 2018 NFL Draft so they do hold quite a bit of firepower if they did want to make such a bold move. Could you imagine the leverage the Browns would have in this draft if they held the #1 AND the #2 overall picks??!!! Wow!

 

If they did this, they would be drafting whomever they have as the highest rated QB and Saquon Barkley.  I don't discount the possibility of doing this to make sure they get they guys that they want.  I can't believe for a second that Barkley will make it to the #4 pick.

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, Luxy312 said:

If they did this, they would be drafting whomever they have as the highest rated QB and Saquon Barkley.  I don't discount the possibility of doing this to make sure they get they guys that they want.  I can't believe for a second that Barkley will make it to the #4 pick.

It's possible, and I'd even go as far as plausible. CLE goes Darnold at 1, Team trades up to 2 for Rosen, Chubb goes to Indy at 3.

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

It's possible, and I'd even go as far as plausible. CLE goes Darnold at 1, Team trades up to 2 for Rosen, Chubb goes to Indy at 3.

Wouldn't it make sense for Indy to take him if he falls to them?  They could have a star runningback take over the reins until Luck gets healthy and then have quite the offense.  I don't think he'd make it past Indy.  

Edited February 20, 2018 by Buffalo30

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said:

Wouldn't it make sense for Indy to take him if he falls to them?  They could have a star runningback take over the reins until Luck gets healthy and then have quite the offense.  I don't think he'd make it past Indy.  

Chubb is a better player at a more important position, which is also a position of need for them I believe.

[TPS]

5 hours ago, Luxy312 said:

 

If they did this, they would be drafting whomever they have as the highest rated QB and Saquon Barkley.  I don't discount the possibility of doing this to make sure they get they guys that they want.  I can't believe for a second that Barkley will make it to the #4 pick.

Which is why it wouldn't be outlandish to pick Barkley first, then you'd get one of the top 3 QBs at #4. I assume someone would jump at trading Indy for the #3 pick in this scenario.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

11 hours ago, papazoid said:

i'm hoping the Browns pick a QB with BOTH picks #1 & #4

 

that would be awesome

 

I either get a kings ransom for #4.....or i'm picking a QB and trading later

 

My friend who's a diehard Browns fan wants the Browns to actually do this. Draft 2 QBs EARLY and have them fight it out in training camp. It's actually an interesting idea.

[peterpan]

I've been saying they should do this for months now.  Take Rosen, trade him to the Giants, take a non QB stud, then take your QB at 4

[Punching Bag]

11 hours ago, Buddo said:

I think it's something that has to be given a bit more serious consideration, than perhaps is happening. The Browns are in a rare situation, where they could do all sorts of things, not the least of which is take 2 QBs in their first 4 picks.

 

It also would get them leverage if one of the QBs refused to play for the Browns.

[Bakin]

Whatever Cleveland does, they will !@#$ it up. They’ve had 13 first round picks in 7 years and what has that earned them?

Bills brass has done brilliantly, in comparison, in the same time frame. And that says a lot. 

[ColoradoBills]

13 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Whatever Cleveland does, they will !@#$ it up. They’ve had 13 first round picks in 7 years and what has that earned them?

Bills brass has done brilliantly, in comparison, in the same time frame. And that says a lot. 

 

Nobody can argue their terrible past with GMs.

John Dorsey wasn't around for any of those picks.

FWIW

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, QuoteTheRaven83 said:

 

My friend who's a diehard Browns fan wants the Browns to actually do this. Draft 2 QBs EARLY and have them fight it out in training camp. It's actually an interesting idea.

 

The problem with that is you spent two top-4 picks to get one player (and hoping you can salvage some trade value for the loser of the QB duel), when you could have had your QB and stud player at another position of need.

[BillsFan4]

21 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

For those who don’t recall:

Basically Eli Manning was the #1 QB. 

-San Diego had the first overall pick.

-Eli said he’d rather sit out a year than play for the Chargers.

-San Diego drafted Manning, and made a deal with the Giants after the fact. The Giants, selecting Philip Rivers, made the following trade;

 

The New York Giants received:

• Eli Manning, QB

The San Diego Chargers received:

• Philip Rivers, QB
• 2004 3rd-round pick (Nate Kaeding, PK)
• 2005 1st-round pick (Shawne Merriman, OLB)
• 2005 5th-round pick (traded to TB for Roman Oben, OT)

 

Any chance the Browns do this with Rosen? Maybe select him 1st overall, and either find a partner to swap QB’s with, or since they have the pick, take another guy at #4 and then trade Rosen? 

 

I know now it’s complicated and unlikely, but if they believe he’s the best quarterback, I could see their reasoning for taking the player regardless of what he says about playing for them.

 

I don't see Rosen as the consensus #1 like Eli was. The top 3 QBs seem to be in different orders depending on who you ask. 

 

The other problem I see is that they could miss out on the QB they truly want.

Say, for example, it's Darnold. There's a good chance that Darnold goes off the board before #4, ans it's possible Mayfield goes off the board before #4 too.

So even though they might get a haul for Rosen, they might be left picking the 4th QB.

 

The only way I see it working is if the Giants are all in on Rosen. Then Cleveland either works out a scenario where they take Rosen, Giants take whatever QB the Browns want (Darnold/Mayfield etc) and then arrange the trade. 

Or they just arrange the trade with the Giants before they pick...

 

The only other way I see it happening is if some team trades up with the Giants before the draft, Cleveland knows for sure that team wants Rosen and works out the trade with them. That team would have to absolutely LOVE Rosen though, to give up a haul to get the #2 pick, and then to give up more assets to get Rosen from Cleveland. 

 

 

 

[JimKellyTryouts]

If they really like a few of the QBs, they could take Barkley 1st (who cares about his position if he's graded as highly as Zeke/Gurley), let Rosen go somewhere he would actually want to play, and then have a choice between Darnold/Mayfield/Allen 4th, too. 

[The Now Moment]

7 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Chubb is a better player at a more important position, which is also a position of need for them I believe.

Do they not both play running back?

[BuffaloHokie13]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Do they not both play running back?

Ha! Wrong Chubb. Bradley Chubb is the best DE in the draft.

[The Now Moment]

11 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Ha! Wrong Chubb. Bradley Chubb is the best DE in the draft.

Haha sorry I instantly thought of Nick Chubb for some reason.  I just disagree that Chubb is a better player than him.  I love Chubb but Barkley can help fix that horrible offense that they had.  If Luck comes back and that's a big if this year, they would have a difficult to defend combination on offense.  With an offensive coach stepping in as HC and how bad they looked last year not just on defense but on offense too...I think they'd have to go with Barkley at 3.  Even with the depth at the position in the draft, Barkley is another level.  

[SoTier]

On 2/19/2018 at 11:25 PM, Dkollidas said:

For those who don’t recall:

Basically Eli Manning was the #1 QB. 

-San Diego had the first overall pick.

-Eli said he’d rather sit out a year than play for the Chargers.

-San Diego drafted Manning, and made a deal with the Giants after the fact. The Giants, selecting Philip Rivers, made the following trade;

 

The New York Giants received:

• Eli Manning, QB

The San Diego Chargers received:

• Philip Rivers, QB
• 2004 3rd-round pick (Nate Kaeding, PK)
• 2005 1st-round pick (Shawne Merriman, OLB)
• 2005 5th-round pick (traded to TB for Roman Oben, OT)

 

Any chance the Browns do this with Rosen? Maybe select him 1st overall, and either find a partner to swap QB’s with, or since they have the pick, take another guy at #4 and then trade Rosen? 

 

I know now it’s complicated and unlikely, but if they believe he’s the best quarterback, I could see their reasoning for taking the player regardless of what he says about playing for them.

 

Why would they do this when they already have picks #1 and #4 plus a bunch of others in the first 100 picks (6 I think I read somewhere)?  There are a limited number of talented players in any draft, and not all of them are going to be useful to a specific team because of the positions they play/style they play.  They have 2 blue chip draft picks which they need to use to grab 2 play makers, so it would be smarter for Cleveland to use both those picks rather than parlay either pick into additional lower picks.

 

While Rosen may have said he doesn't want to play in Cleveland, he's not the consensus #1 pick or even the consensus #1 QB as Eli was in 2004.  There was a standoff between the Mannings and the Chargers FO, and IMO, drafting Eli and then trading him was a face-saving move by AJ Smith & Co.  Moreover, if Cleveland thinks he's the best quarterback, why would they be willing to trade him?   

[Cmdjr85]

On 2/20/2018 at 7:40 AM, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

Absolutely. I just hope that they are smart enough to demand more than the Chargers did, and don’t draft a kicker in the third round. 

Good kicker is one of the most important positions on the team. More often than not games are gonna come down to the kicking game.

[SoTier]

10 minutes ago, Cmdjr85 said:

Good kicker is one of the most important positions on the team. More often than not games are gonna come down to the kicking game.

 

Oakland has taken two kickers in the first round: punter Ray Guy with #23 in 1973 and place-kicker Sebastian Janikowski with #17 in 2000.  Guy was inducted into the HOF in 2014.

[Luka]

Why doesn't anyone have the Giants picking Barkley? Eli and that offense would certainly benefit from having a top running game.

[SoTier]

5 minutes ago, Luka said:

Why doesn't anyone have the Giants picking Barkley? Eli and that offense would certainly benefit from having a top running game.

 

I think this is very likely, far more likely than the Giants taking a QB with that pick while Eli is still on the roster. 

[Luka]

25 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think this is very likely, far more likely than the Giants taking a QB with that pick while Eli is still on the roster. 

 

6 rushing TDs and 66 1st downs out of their run game last year. For comparison the Bills had double the touchdowns and nearly double the 1st downs and we were still middle of the pack. Barkley seems like a no brainer for them.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

15 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

The problem with that is you spent two top-4 picks to get one player (and hoping you can salvage some trade value for the loser of the QB duel), when you could have had your QB and stud player at another position of need.

 

They're the Browns...what do they have to lose? They've one 1 game in the last 2 years.