Big Turk Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Its said that spread QBs can take several years to learn the NFL game and it appears the light finally clicked for Keenum this year. That geta me thinking just how many other Keenum stories there might be arpund the NFL that we will nevee know about because once you become a 3rd stringer you pretty much are done as a starting QB unless crazy circumstances lead to you getting an extended opportunity. That's what happened with Keenum as he was basically signed for peanuts by the Vikings and not expected to play. Do GMs need to start reevaluating their scouting processes with the realization it might take a good 4 or 5 years for a QB to be ready to play well? Most players dont ever get that long to show it...they end up on the scrap heap or buried on a depth chart. It will be interesting to see...now mlre than ever with spread QBs becoming more and more common, I think it might be time they start realizing sometimes it just takes longer...think it also shows that scheme and system are ultra important in the NFL Edited January 24, 2018 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I think a way larger sample size would be needed than 1 spread QB, taking 5 years to develop, and having 1 good offensive year to get GMs to change how they evaluate QBs... THAT said, I do believe all QB success in the NFL (even Tom Brady) is largely dependent on being in the right place, with the right coaching staff/philosophy/, at the right time. Many NFL QBs would benefit from sitting and learning how to be an NFL QB before being thrown into the fire, regardless of college system run. Most NFL GM's/teams don't have that luxury though. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 After this past Sunday, you are using an example of why GMs are correct and have been correct in evaluating Keenum and other similar QBs correctly. They are career backups. They may be good backups, but they're still backups. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, clayboy54 said: After this past Sunday, you are using an example of why GMs are correct and have been correct in evaluating Keenum and other similar QBs correctly. They are career backups. They may be good backups, but they're still backups. The clock struck twelve on Keenum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobH063 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I think agents of those type of quarterbacks may want to rethink how long their clients contracts should be. If they come out of college and they aren't being considered the next coming of TB, they should sign a 3 year deal at most. That way if they become the 3rd stringer for whatever reason, they're still young when they become a free agent. Lets say a QB blossoms in year 5. So he gets through the 3 year contract, then signs a 2 year contract. Then blossoms. Now he's in line to get a hefty pay day where otherwise he could be under contract for a lot less money and the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 If a guy is going to take 7 years to develop like Keenum, he just isn't worth a draft pick. That's far too long to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The clock struck twelve on Keenum. Agree but a team will make him right I suspect - hopefully not the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) To answer the question posed in the thread title: Not necessarily. Case Keenum had a good year, but I think we also have to remember that this was a single season, and that he was playing for (I believe) the team with the #1 Defense in the NFL. Keenum performed well within the structure that was provided for him, and he had a great defense to back him up. Even if he goes on to another team and has to carry more of the load himself - and performs well at it - I'm not sure it changes how GMs would need to evaluate QBs. He's been in the league long enough at this point, and no GM wants to wait 5 years for a guy to "blossom." I think Keenum is just a good example of how it's possible to have a successful team without a top-end QB. However, I think this is much more the exception than the rule. I.e. I think that any GM would rather plan to have a great QB (who can mask weaknesses) than plan to construct such a great supporting roster that the particular QB used is not as important. Edited January 24, 2018 by Tommy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 No. Keenum wasn't even drafted. Even if the light came on, and that's not likely, he's not the typical rookie QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Na I don't think so. Keenum played well this year don't get me wrong, but would you give him the keys to the franchise especially after that horrible game against Philly? I certainly wouldn't. The odd time QBS are late bloomers who pan out, but its pretty rare. Edited January 24, 2018 by billsfan11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Madness Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 hours ago, clayboy54 said: After this past Sunday, you are using an example of why GMs are correct and have been correct in evaluating Keenum and other similar QBs correctly. They are career backups. They may be good backups, but they're still backups. The irony with this is that the QB that beat him is also one that has been considered a 'career backup' and played well... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 hours ago, matter2003 said: Its said that spread QBs can take several years to learn the NFL game and it appears the light finally clicked for Keenum this year. That geta me thinking just how many other Keenum stories there might be arpund the NFL that we will nevee know about because once you become a 3rd stringer you pretty much are done as a starting QB unless crazy circumstances lead to you getting an extended opportunity. That's what happened with Keenum as he was basically signed for peanuts by the Vikings and not expected to play. Do GMs need to start reevaluating their scouting processes with the realization it might take a good 4 or 5 years for a QB to be ready to play well? Most players dont ever get that long to show it...they end up on the scrap heap or buried on a depth chart. It will be interesting to see...now mlre than ever with spread QBs becoming more and more common, I think it might be time they start realizing sometimes it just takes longer...think it also shows that scheme and system are ultra important in the NFL These are interesting points. We are seeing the success of guys like Keenum, Cousin, Foles, Garoppolo, because they were backups at points and got to observe and develop. Even Alex Smith wasn't very good until late in his 49ers career and we saw him take off with the move to KC. It takes time. That's why people may take a shot on AJ McCarron or even a guy like Tyler Bray, guys sitting in the background on rosters developing. Every year we hear during draft time that guys need to sit a year or two and develop, because they are not ready. But time and time again we see guys drafted early and starting right away and looking terrible. There are just so many guys who got thrown to the wolves too early and are now out of the game. I think at times this can work as we saw with guys like Peyton Manning or even Goff and Wentz in their second years. But to me these are exceptions. Owners need to commit to coaches and GMs for longer so that they can properly develop quarterbacks. The Bears threw Mitch Trubisky in there and everyone got fired anyway. They probably would have been better off letting him sit. Rodgers sat. Rivers sat. Even Eli sat for a little bit. Carson Palmer sat for 1 full season and the Bengals refused to play him. It was the best thing for him. I suppose we could see a return to that mentality, but it seems unlikely. Guys like Rosen, Darnold, Jackson are only 20-21 years old. That is just extremely young to be starting games in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I think the truth with Keenum is that he was underrated BEFORE this year and has been slightly overrated AFTER this year. I think Keenum can be a reasonable bridge / placeholder. I have always thought he is a better Quarterback than say Mike Glennon but because he was an UDFA and is 6ft with high heels on an inaccurate big armed lump like Glennon is higher rated. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Keenum is just the latest in the "journeyman QB's" to have some success. they all have a blip on the radar at some point but when put in the position of being "the man" they regress and you realize that their small window of success was just an outlier. let's face it, if you throw enough passes in this league you are bound to get on a hot streak every now and then. guys like Keenum, Fitz, McCown, Hoyer...those guys are who they are. if you think they are all of a sudden good then you are just fooling yourself 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, kdiggz said: Keenum is just the latest in the "journeyman QB's" to have some success. they all have a blip on the radar at some point but when put in the position of being "the man" they regress and you realize that their small window of success was just an outlier. let's face it, if you throw enough passes in this league you are bound to get on a hot streak every now and then. guys like Keenum, Fitz, McCown, Hoyer...those guys are who they are. if you think they are all of a sudden good then you are just fooling yourself That didnt happen with Rich Gannon...there are probably more stories like his that have never happened due to this mentality. Edited January 24, 2018 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginthepast Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I think Keenum can win you a championship maybe once if the stars align, you have a great running game and defense, and you get some breaks (like the Playoff miracle in Minni this year). He is better than Trent Dilfer. I just don't think he can sustain that for more than a season. He seems like the type of QB that given enough time, Defensive coordinators soon find a way to neutralize. I really don't expect him to ever have that lightning in a bottle again. Against Philly he looked exactly the player he was with the Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 It's depends on a case by case basis. It was a year that formerly un-elites could shine. At the Australian Open almost all the top seeds have been wiped out early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 hours ago, clayboy54 said: After this past Sunday, you are using an example of why GMs are correct and have been correct in evaluating Keenum and other similar QBs correctly. They are career backups. They may be good backups, but they're still backups. Right...so one week does more than the 15.5 previous weeks...thats just called hoping you see what you've been wanting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, kdiggz said: guys like Keenum, Fitz, McCown, Hoyer...those guys are who they are. if you think they are all of a sudden good then you are just fooling yourself I think he is the best of that bunch because he is the most accurate of that bunch but he is not suddenly a franchise saviour. He is a serviceable placeholder. I think we have one of those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Keenum got lucky on a miracle play vs New Orleans then got stomped in Philly. He was just OK this season in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Keenum got lucky on a miracle play vs New Orleans then got stomped in Philly. He was just OK this season in my opinion. Saints were the best team in the NFC, tough luck on that epic moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think he is the best of that bunch because he is the most accurate of that bunch but he is not suddenly a franchise saviour. He is a serviceable placeholder. I think we have one of those too. Keenum is better than Tyrod and would likely do a lot better than him with Daboll's system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, row_33 said: Saints were the best team in the NFC, tough luck on that epic moment. Yup.. at the time I figured that missed tackle handed Brady his 6th ring. But after really studying the Eagles I feel a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Keenum got lucky on a miracle play vs New Orleans then got stomped in Philly. He was just OK this season in my opinion. I think he was better than just OK, but the overall point is well taken: this year was an aberration for Keenum rather than some indicator of untapped potential. He still makes those weird backfooted throws that are begging to be picked off, lucky to be playing in a weak division with a great defense, has two All-Pro caliber wideouts who really, really help out...I wouldn't use this year, in which I thought he was borderline terrific, to define him. It's a highlight but unlikely to be repeated IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 21 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Yup.. at the time I figured that missed tackle handed Brady his 6th ring. But after really studying the Eagles I feel a lot better. as with every Super Bowl I hope it is interesting into the 4th quarter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 IMO, Rogers snapping his collarbone did a lot to help the Vikings as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 No. Case is a nice story but he will only get you so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 On the other end of the spectrum, there are still those QBs who come in day 1 (or close) and do well. I think most GMs/HCs want to pretend it's a league of grooming a guy, but the pressure dictates get a guy, find out if he's got it, and if he doesn't fairly soon, move on. Nothing can change that. It's up to the guys like Keenum to do all they can to work on their flaws and hope they land in the right opportunity before it's too late. I'm sure there have been many guys with enough talent who never got their shot. Oh well. Literally...that's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) I don't think any light finally clicked. Keenum just ended up in an ideal circumstance on an incredibly talented team with excellent wide receivers and a spectacular OC who earned himself a HC gig with the work he did with Keenum. He is very likely coming crashing back to earth next year. The thing people might need to reevaluate is how much of an impact a great OC can have on a QB's game. So whoever we have under center next year, I hope Dabol is great. If he's as bad as Dennison, I don't know how much our QB can really do. Edited January 24, 2018 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) I mean think about it with our current situation with TT. He's another guy who looked like just needed some time on the bench to learn and when he got his shot, could become the franchise. Welp.... Edited January 24, 2018 by ProcessTheTrust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 As was pointed out, lets see how he does over a couple of seasons and maybe without a great defense around him. You could make the same argument for Fitz. (and others) He looked good for awhile too until teams figured him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: As was pointed out, lets see how he does over a couple of seasons and maybe without a great defense around him. You could make the same argument for Fitz. (and others) He looked good for awhile too until teams figured him out. I subscribe to the view that nobody cares about unheralded rookies or scrubs who get a shot after a few years of clipboard if they pan out then a book is written on them the saddest book is "let's make him be a QB" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I think it is the owners who need to think differently. The way GMs and Coaches get fired every 2 or 3 years, there is no time to take the long view for them. If I am a GM who picks a QB in the second round so he will develop in 3 or 4 years, I am lowering my odds of having a job in two years. I will never be there to see it. Same with the coach. He doesn't want a guy on the roster who might be good in 3 years. He wants that spot for someone who can play now. That is not their fault it is the owners fault. The only one who can and does do that, is Bellichick. I think the owners should be responsible for long term planning when it comes to QB and the O-line. Because otherwise, as we have seen, it doesn't get done. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The clock struck twelve on Keenum. Yup- he’s a pumpkin again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Yup- he’s a pumpkin again Rumor is that he's back to scrubbing floors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Dalton said: Agree but a team will make him right I suspect - hopefully not the Bills. As long as it’s not an overpay, I don’t mind. As long as a QB is drafted in the first. I’m sure some team will throw a bunch of money his way. He’d be an upgrade over Taylor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The clock struck twelve on Keenum. This. Playoffs, the screws tighten and the pressure separates the quality QBs. Case is ok, nit not the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, kdiggz said: Keenum is just the latest in the "journeyman QB's" to have some success. they all have a blip on the radar at some point but when put in the position of being "the man" they regress and you realize that their small window of success was just an outlier. let's face it, if you throw enough passes in this league you are bound to get on a hot streak every now and then. guys like Keenum, Fitz, McCown, Hoyer...those guys are who they are. if you think they are all of a sudden good then you are just fooling yourself Excellent post, right on man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisplacedBillsFan Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 hours ago, DCOrange said: If a guy is going to take 7 years to develop like Keenum, he just isn't worth a draft pick. That's far too long to wait. In 2011 we drafted; Round 1 Marcell Dareus Round 2 Aaron Williams Round 3 Kelvin Sheppard Round 4 Da'Norris Searcy Round 4 Chris Hairston Round 5 Johnny White Round 6 Chris White Round 7 Just Rogers Round 7 Michael Jasper I would say, having a QB on the roster this year that played as well as Keenum did would be worth any one of those draft picks, considering none of them are even on the team any longer or (aside from Dareus) even making a meaningful contribution to a team in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, DisplacedBillsFan said: I would say, having a QB on the roster this year that played as well as Keenum did would be worth any one of those draft picks, considering none of them are even on the team any longer or (aside from Dareus) even making a meaningful contribution to a team in the NFL. 6 years in means we'd have already given him a 2nd contract and he'd be at least 2 years into that one. In his first 3 years in Houston he started 10 games and the Texans went 2-8 in those games. Thinking he'd have lasted beyond his rookie contract is foolish. If a player isn't going to contribute within the duration of their rookie contract then they aren't worth the draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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