Kirby Jackson Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: It is very strange that they fired Dennison before Taylor. Why give another OC an option to keep Taylor. I’m not sure that it changes Tyrod’s fate. It’s all based on the timeline. The new OC will certainly have the option to keep him as the vet or not. I doubt that they will but chronologically it had to happen in this order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, PolishDave said: If you honestly try to measure the effectiveness of either the passing game or running game based solely on total yards you are doing it wrong. If you want an accurate picture, you have to account for number of attempts. Otherwise it is terribly misleading. I get you are doing that on purpose though. Because without doing that you would have to agree the rushing attack went from "the single best rushing attack of the modern era" to "just average. That is a major FUBAR by any reasonable standards. Per DVOA we went from 18th passing and 1st rushing to 28th passing and 19th rushing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: He predicted the greatest play in franchise history before the Kyle Williams TD. Said Shady would play in the wildcard. Nailed the Dennison news. IIRC the only thing he's been wrong on was one week he said Gaines wouldn't play but then he did. At least twice he commented Shady WASN’T playing -including Friday. Then he hedged his bet. So that one’s off the table. Dennison gettting canned HAD to happen w/ One offensive TD in the last 7 games. So, yes, he called the Kyle play -which means he does have some insight on the team, as many defensive players didn’t know about it til it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said: Agreed with all of this. Wilson alone can make anyone OC look solid or better, so hard to know just how much he had to do with Wilson's performance. But overall, this offense has notoriously started slow most years, and they have struggled at getting their most talented players consistently involved. Over the last few years, they have not used their best players as effectively they could. Guys like Baldwin and Graham, in fact, this year was the first year where it really felt like they prioritized getting Jimmy G involved consistently. Baldwin is very talented, and his end of year stats usually look strong, but its often a few big games that help those totals look better with way too many games where he has been under used. I think they used both more this year, but it seemed it took the desperation of having no real rusher to lean on to force Bevell to focus more on the weapons in the pass game. So concerns me about how he used those guys previously. I wouldn't hate the hire (ANYTHING other than Hackett is better than Dennison IMO right now), but he's not the top of my list for the all the reasons you stated and I mentioned above. Bevell would be terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Per DVOA we went from 18th passing and 1st rushing to 28th passing and 19th rushing. Who was the O-Line coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: At least twice he commented Shady WASN’T playing -including Friday. Then he hedged his bet. So that one’s off the table. Dennison gettting canned HAD to happen w/ One offensive TD in the last 7 games. So, yes, he called the Kyle play -which means he does have some insight on the team, as many defensive players didn’t know about it til it happened. Sorry Chandler for the vulgar post I had earlier. It was from a show and not something I came up with. I'll be better....I promise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, BrooklynBills said: Bevell would be terrible Not directed at you, but in general, I do not believe there will be a single OC hire that everyone will be on board with. I have heard negative comments on all of the potential candidates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I am glad we are going in a different direction. However, ONLY in sports do we cheer someone's career halted through firing. Good luck Rico. I hope you find something you enjoy and excel at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 minute ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Not directed at you, but in general, I do not believe there will be a single OC hire that everyone will be on board with. I have heard negative comments on all of the potential candidates. Nah, my opinion is correct 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 My only question is will a new OC bring in his own group of assistants. Will he bring in a New OL coach, WR coach and RB coach ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: That's not sucking. If you think 6th in yards, "sucks," then I eagerly await your calling for McCoy's head in 360 days. Last year this team in the 15 games with TT as the starter was THIRD in the NFL in TD's scored behind only Atlanta and the Saints. It was one of the highest scoring teams in Buffalo history. The 2 year period BEOFRE RICO was the 3rd highest scoring 2 year period in Bills history. The Bills run game was the best in the entire NFL in yards and yards per carry. TT led offense averaged 26 points per game, scored over 25 points 10 times in 15 games. Our Points Per Game dropped SIX POINTS (which is a massive amount) under Rico, and honestly it really dropped 8 if you factor out the games TT didn't play in last year and this year. ALL you can focus on is rush TOTAL ranking...you realize TOTALS do NOT show EFFECTIVENESS right? Or do you just want to ignore common sense because in every conversation you have only 1 agenda, make it about TT at all costs? RICO drastically reduced the effectiveness of our run game. Our TOTALS are still strong because A) Shady is very talented can overcome even an idiot of an OC to still be effective and B) Because we still ran the ball a TON. But that does NOT in ANY WAY mean we still ran the ball as effectively and could keep putting points on the board...you know those things that determine who wins the game in the NFL? So sorry, RICO sucks, set this offense back significantly. TT made his OWN mistakes...it has nothing to do with how poorly RICO performed this year comparatively to the last 2 years. Im glad the weak link in a strong staff is gone. We are going to be bringing in a new QB through Draft, Trade, or FA and the new OC coming in now can now contribute to the decisions based on what they want to do with the offense. Bye RICO, nothing personal, but you suck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just now, buffaloboyinATL said: Not directed at you, but in general, I do not believe there will be a single OC hire that everyone will be on board with. I have heard negative comments on all of the potential candidates. It's just like the draft. Everyone will have their guy and if we don't take that guy....they'll be consistent negative remarks about the one who was chosen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: It is very strange that they fired Dennison before Taylor. Why give another OC an option to keep Taylor. Not strange... they have to move quickly or they will have no one left on the OC market to replace him. If there is an OC they want and that OC wants Tyrod ... sorry I can’t stop laughing to finish that sentence Edited January 12, 2018 by YoloinOhio 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said: Last year this team in the 15 games with TT as the starter was THIRD in the NFL in TD's scored behind only Atlanta and the Saints. It was one of the highest scoring teams in Buffalo history. The 2 year period BEOFRE RICO was the 3rd highest scoring 2 year period in Bills history. The Bills run game was the best in the entire NFL in yards and yards per carry. TT led offense averaged 26 points per game, scored over 25 points 10 times in 15 games. Our Points Per Game dropped SIX POINTS (which is a massive amount) under Rico, and honestly it really dropped 8 if you factor out the games TT didn't play in last year and this year. ALL you can focus on is rush TOTAL ranking...you realize TOTALS do NOT show EFFECTIVENESS right? Or do you just want to ignore common sense because in every conversation you have only 1 agenda, make it about TT at all costs? RICO drastically reduced the effectiveness of our run game. Our TOTALS are still strong because A) Shady is very talented can overcome even an idiot of an OC to still be effective and B) Because we still ran the ball a TON. But that does NOT in ANY WAY mean we still ran the ball as effectively and could keep putting points on the board...you know those things that determine who wins the game in the NFL? So sorry, RICO sucks, set this offense back significantly. TT made his OWN mistakes...it has nothing to do with how poorly RICO performed this year comparatively to the last 2 years. Im glad the weak link in a strong staff is gone. We are going to be bringing in a new QB through Draft, Trade, or FA and the new OC coming in now can now contribute to the decisions based on what they want to do with the offense. Bye RICO, nothing personal, but you suck. bolded says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Run game not withstanding, I have heard (but have not verified) that our offense produced one second half touchdown in the last 7 games of the season, and that was Kyle's run. If that is true, and is not considered grounds for dismissal of the OC, I don't know what is. 2 - Shady's Ot game winner and Kyle TD. Other than that you have to look back to the Chargers game in week 11 for a 2nd half TD, that's pathetic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Taylor is trying to beat Jay Cutler record of 5 OC's before he is released. Cutler had 5 OCs in Chicago? How many did Fitz have with Jauron and Chan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: At least twice he commented Shady WASN’T playing -including Friday. Then he hedged his bet. So that one’s off the table. Dennison gettting canned HAD to happen w/ One offensive TD in the last 7 games. So, yes, he called the Kyle play -which means he does have some insight on the team, as many defensive players didn’t know about it til it happened. I said a couple weeks ago that McCoy will be the OC next year. If it comes true fine. The difference between me and the delusional nut case that posted all that garbage is he claimed he had some secret source, which we all know was BS. Any semi-intelligent chimpanzee who keeps up on the league and the team could have made the same predictions the delusional one made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Not strange... they have to move quickly or they will have no one left on the OC market to replace him. If there is an OC they want and that OC wants Tyrod ... sorry I can’t stop laughing to finish that sentence Well played, bahahahaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Who was the O-Line coach? Kromer to Castillo (and Kromer is working magic out west) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) For those of you saying not having a QB in place is a bad thing... Sorry for posting a screenshot and not a link. I dunno how to link to twitter and have it show up as anything more than a line of text If anyone would care to PM me and let me know how to do the twitter link thing correctly I'd appreciate it. That way I can just look at my PMs the next time I can't figure out how to do this very basic thing. Edited January 12, 2018 by ndirish1978 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Phew! For a couple days there I thought what had to happen wasn't going to happen. Now Castillo although I don't think that's a foregone conclusion. Depends on what new OC wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 2 hours ago, CuddyDark said: The hiring will say a lot about what they want to do with TT. If they hire Shula TT is staying. JMO. I think the hiring will sat a lot more about TT than the firing of Dennison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, SWATeam said: Do you want to address the drop off, or just ignore it? They dropped off. We lost players. The OL played worse. We got a really bad OL coach. 47 minutes ago, PolishDave said: If you honestly try to measure the effectiveness of either the passing game or running game based solely on total yards you are doing it wrong. If you want an accurate picture, you have to account for number of attempts. Otherwise it is terribly misleading. I get you are doing that on purpose though. Because without doing that you would have to agree the rushing attack went from "the single best rushing attack of the modern era" to "just average. That is a major FUBAR by any reasonable standards. We were second in attempts in both 2015 and 2016. 46 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: He is comparing it to what they produced the year before and what their overall potential was to start the season. Not to the rest of the league. That wouldn’t give a fair assessment of his production with this unit. Overall potential? WTF. Again, ya'll act like a running game was going to be historic 3 years in a row, with RB turnover, aging, poorer OL play and changes in coaching and scheme. Talk about unrealistic expectations. Comparing the unit to every other run unit that year is basically the ONLY way to assess production. The 2015 offense and 2016 offense and 2017 offense WERE DIFFERENT. 45 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: They averaged 4.1 YPC. They had pretty much the same group (adding Dimarco). They averaged 5.3 YPC last year (and more before week 17). Explain how he positively impacted that running game? Pretty much the same group, except for all the players who were different, older, and had new position coaches. Funny gif, but please tell me more about how 6th in the NFL is bad. Edited January 12, 2018 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: HEY McD while your at it. SHOW JUAN CASTILLO the door Christmas just never stops around here!! It's been going on for 4 weeks now! Juan Castillo next please............... EDIT : If Juan Castillo goes I will continue to trust the process more Edited January 12, 2018 by Manther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 36 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Per DVOA we went from 18th passing and 1st rushing to 28th passing and 19th rushing. Thanks for those stats. You can slice it or dice it a number of ways. It's hard though not to conclude that the offense regressed under Dennison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 37 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Taylor is trying to beat Jay Cutler record of 5 OC's before he is released. If he stays another season with now OC#4 for him I lose all hope in this McD staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: I don't think we have to worry at all about this. The new OC will bring his staff. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 51 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: It is very strange that they fired Dennison before Taylor. Why give another OC an option to keep Taylor. Why not? If Beane and McD are determined to get rid of Taylor, they will regardless of the OC. Personally, I'm not in favor of releasing/trading Taylor until we get someone better. Hopefully that happens soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 39 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m not sure that it changes Tyrod’s fate. It’s all based on the timeline. The new OC will certainly have the option to keep him as the vet or not. I doubt that they will but chronologically it had to happen in this order. If they keep Tyrod I would expect the new OC to be next years scape goat as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, ndirish1978 said: Great news. 2 second half TDs since Week 11, he had to go. I think out of it all, that was the most damning result and what doomed him in more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Why not? If Beane and McD are determined to get rid of Taylor, they will regardless of the OC. Personally, I'm not in favor of releasing/trading Taylor until we get someone better. Hopefully that happens soon. It wouldn't happen now anyway with the Bills being eliminated from the playoffs that freezes their 2017 roster until the new league year begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: Granted we haven't had a lot of great OCs but let me ask, what did you like about Rico? Under Rico, the offense went backwards. 2016: #10 in points, #16 yards 2017: #22 in points, #29 in yards Same QB, same RB, mostly the same OL... The WRs were different but not especially better or worse. Dennison was fired because he didn't produce. At the same time, defenses figure out what a player does well and take that away. I don't think it's any coincidence that TT's YPA has declined from 8.0 in 2015 to 6.9 last year and then 6.7 this season. He's not getting as many chances to throw deep because defenses have taken that away. As for Shady, he had more than 2k touches entering this season. He's not the same player he was in say, 2009 or even 2013. Players get older. Defenses adapt. Dennison probably needed to go given his inflexibility, but the next OC needs to get some more talent. 43 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m not sure that it changes Tyrod’s fate. It’s all based on the timeline. The new OC will certainly have the option to keep him as the vet or not. I doubt that they will but chronologically it had to happen in this order. I believe McBeane will do everything in their power to improve the QB position this off-season. They know it's the principal thing holding them back on offense. Not saying TT is the only one at fault here, but he left a lot of throws on the field even with the poor WR group he had. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnallen Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said: his year was ENTIRELY fireable. took the exact same personnel of top 10 scoring offense and it dropped into the basement. i'm so sick of coaches insisting on system over playing to strength of players. and i'm seriously doubting tyrod is back. so don't lump me into any group that is blaming dennison becuz I wanna see taylor back. it is, however, fairly easy to lump you into the group that will blame taylor for anything and everything as the rest of the offense and OC gets a pass. Actually, all of the WRs were new, and I would say not as good as the previous year’s. I agree that it was a fireable year. The HC can fire any staff member he thinks is underperforming. I think the HC has a better feeling for who should be accountable for the bad offense that any of us fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, ndirish1978 said: Great news. 2 second half TDs since Week 11, he had to go. Yep. Totally unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Magox said: I think out of it all, that was the most damning result and what doomed him in more than anything. The most obvious thing to me was that Denison could script the offense ok for the first half but once the opponent made adjustments at halftime he could never recover. Sign of bad coordinator. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadwick Bay Chad Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Don Dunkirk called it. My source is never wrong. Now what haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just now, Chadwick Bay Chad said: Don Dunkirk called it. My source is never wrong. Now what haters. Who's our top choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just now, Chadwick Bay Chad said: Don Dunkirk called it. My source is never wrong. Now what haters. Is this a new and improved source? Did you fire your old source? That one was wrong many times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Chadwick Bay Chad said: Don Dunkirk called it. My source is never wrong. Now what haters. Lol. You haven’t hit on anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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