T-Bomb Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 If Doug Marrone had stayed on as HC, I feel Whaley would have gotten the axe much sooner. It begs the question on whether or not the Bills would be in a better place if Doug decided to stay. We could have avoided the Rex Ryan debacle completely! Schwartz would likely still be the DC as it seems he's no longer in real consideration for HC's positions in this league, that in itself puts the Bills D in a much better position the last few years. The Bills really look like a franchise that doesn't belong in this league, both Mularkey & Marrone quitting NFL HC positions, who does that? What a disgrace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Yes. Doug Marrone is the best Head Coach we have had since Wade. Arse of a man, no doubt, but I honestly feel like if he had stayed in 2015 we'd have made the playoffs. They were on a sensible plan, they had a great defense..... the wild spending spree of Rex and Doug in the 2015 offseason was where this thing began to fall apart. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 No doubt. Say what you want but the guy has this team on the right path. What a Billsy move with that opt out in his contract. Makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Of course they would. I've been telling you this for 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, T-Bomb said: If Doug Marrone had stayed on as HC, I feel Whaley would have gotten the axe much sooner. It begs the question on whether or not the Bills would be in a better place if Doug decided to stay. We could have avoided the Rex Ryan debacle completely! Schwartz would likely still be the DC as it seems he's no longer in real consideration for HC's positions in this league, that in itself puts the Bills D in a much better position the last few years. The Bills really look like a franchise that doesn't belong in this league, both Mularkey & Marrone quitting NFL HC positions, who does that? What a disgrace... No. The offense would have continued to suck (worse than we saw under Roman/Lynn in 2015 and 2016) and the defense would have depreciated due to aging personnel (see Williams, Mario). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginthepast Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Yes they would be better and probably would have made the playoffs. However with Marrone's relationship with the front office/GM and his crustiness, there was no way any that they could live with each other. Pegula would have had to step in and fire somebody eventually. You cannot thrive with that level of dysfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) As much as I hate to admit it history shows that Marrone was on the right side about many things. He was against drafting and starting EJ Manuel and the kings ransom paid for Sammy. The front office gave him nothing to work with at QB in either of his years. What he and Hackett were able to do pulling Orton off the bleachers at the last second in 2014 was in retrospect respectable if not admirable. Edited December 5, 2017 by Charles Romes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 They certainly would have been. Marrone was much better than the other coaches we’ve had. He was just an a-hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Schwartz top 5 defense vs rex bottom 5 defense ? yep, better off short term if marrone stayed.... long term , russ and whaley still in power......not so good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadwick Bay Chad Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Stop already. This discussion is so old and not worth it. Would we be better off if we hired Bellieck and drafted Brady? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 LMAO.. No it wouldn't have gotten any better. We still lack a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxxxxxx Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 The effect of the change could have been mitigated if Schwartz had stayed. Getting rid of the coordinator who turned Dareus around was the dumbest thing that this franchise has done in the last few years, and we all saw what happened after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Doug was great with the O-line and was a offensive minded HC. I think he was good at developing QB talent also. He seems to have that it factor when you look at him as a HC. I guess the real reason I liked him is because I prefer a offensive minded HC and he was good with the O-Line and QB positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 3 hours ago, T-Bomb said: If Doug Marrone had stayed on as HC, I feel Whaley would have gotten the axe much sooner. It begs the question on whether or not the Bills would be in a better place if Doug decided to stay. We could have avoided the Rex Ryan debacle completely! Schwartz would likely still be the DC as it seems he's no longer in real consideration for HC's positions in this league, that in itself puts the Bills D in a much better position the last few years. The Bills really look like a franchise that doesn't belong in this league, both Mularkey & Marrone quitting NFL HC positions, who does that? What a disgrace... If he fired Hacket, yes. Schwartz staying would have clearly been the linchpin to our success providing we got a real OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Doug was great with the O-line and was a offensive minded HC. I think he was good at developing QB talent also. He seems to have that it factor when you look at him as a HC. I guess the real reason I liked him is because I prefer a offensive minded HC and he was good with the O-Line and QB positions. so you liked our offense under Marone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Right now we have two defensive coaches and our OC who I would rank in the 25 to 32 range is killing the offense. I think if you have a defensive minded HC you need to find yourself a top 15 OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theAteam Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 He had us on the right track in 2014. He knows how to pick a DC. It would be interesting to see where we would've went without Tyrod coming in. Would we continue to pick crotchety old geriatrics at the end of their careers off FA? Our drafting would have been different, for sure. Really tough to tell. I think we squeak into a WC one of these years, but don't really contend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Its harder to find a good coach than a GM. Marrone is a good coach. The Pegulas should have met his demands and extended him. That is their biggest mistake thus far. Marrone and Taylor would have worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: so you liked our offense under Marone? There is no HC that could do anything better with the crap QB's we had that year. I think it was EJ, Lewis and Tuel if I'm not mistaken. I'm sorry but those QB's were pure garbage, I can see why he wanted Whaley fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Mat68 said: Its harder to find a good coach than a GM. Marrone is a good coach. The Pegulas should have met his demands and extended him. That is their biggest mistake thus far. Marrone and Taylor would have worked well. Pegs did offer him a 5 yr extension and was advised by Marrone he would get back to him . Pegs thought it was a done deal. Next day he resigned. Pegs was blindsided. Marrone never requested changes to make his stay in Buffalo palatable for him. Marrone was never happy in Buffalo. He needed to go. Edited December 4, 2017 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 The continuous turnover of coaches has been disastrous for this franchise. Keeping Doug Marrone would have allowed us to keep Jim Schwartz. Which would have erased the Rex Ryan scheme change, and stopped the wasted draft picks of Shaq Lawson, Reggie Ragland, Adolphus Washington, etc. It probably would have kept Mario Williams and Marcel Dareus motivated. I have no doubts our defense would have played 10x better if the coaching change hadn't been made. The offense is harder to determine. Marrone hated EJ Manuel, so it's likely we would have brought someone else in as starter. Probably not Tyrod Taylor though, because he was a Ryan recommendation. Would we still have traded for Lesean McCoy? Would we have still signed Charles Clay? So many questions that can't be answered here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaista2k Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 If we kept Schwartz we could've had him for life as defensive coordinator I think. Keep in mind he already failed miserably as a Head Coach - So I really don't think he'd get another head coaching opportunity. Think about that... We could've had one of the best defensive coordinators in the league with NO chance of him ever leaving... only this franchise would screw that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 He didn't, so we'll never know. He didn't want to be here and now we have a better coach anyway IMO. McDermott seems like twice the man that Marrone will ever be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Yes! He did have the team going in the right direction even without a franchise QB. We still had a bit of a pop gun offense, but we had a championship quality defense. All he needed was a different OC (even Roman), and we would have been playoff bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Doug was great with the O-line and was a offensive minded HC. I think he was good at developing QB talent also. He seems to have that it factor when you look at him as a HC. I guess the real reason I liked him is because I prefer a offensive minded HC and he was good with the O-Line and QB positions. The OLine and offense was terrible when Marrone was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 54 minutes ago, Klaista2k said: If we kept Schwartz we could've had him for life as defensive coordinator I think. Keep in mind he already failed miserably as a Head Coach - So I really don't think he'd get another head coaching opportunity. Think about that... We could've had one of the best defensive coordinators in the league with NO chance of him ever leaving... only this franchise would screw that up. Given the paucity of other candidates Schwartz could well be a HC again in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 It is hard to say. Marrone deserves credit for creating a more disciplined environment and for hiring well-qualified and effective defensive coordinators. But he also had an abrasive personality and could not get along with anyone else in the front office. While he may have been right (especially regarding the QB position), he was just so snarky... He is doing well with the Jags because he and Coughlin are of a like-mind, and the team (loaded defense) has played well. But, minus a string of winning seasons, his act in Jacksonville will eventually get old too. He's just not a likeable fellow. Honestly, I am not sure that the Bills would have been any better in 2015 than Rex's 8-8 had Marrone stayed. Don't get me wrong, I know that the Rex hire was a huge mistake, and I realize that he ruined an outstanding defense. But recall that Orton had announced his retirement, and the de facto starter would have been EJ. Rex was the one who brought in Tyrod, so it unlikely that Tyrod plays for the Bills in 2015 if Marrone is still on board. Recall also that the veteran that the Bills brought in that year was Matt Cassel. So even though the defense would have been better with Schwartz still at the helm, the offense probably would not have been as good with EJ/Cassel/Hackett running the show. Finally, the elephant in the room is that Marrone was self-serving. The Bills had been eliminated from the playoffs headed into that final game of the season -- and the Patriots were resting many of their starters. EJ remained a huge question mark -- and there was already a sense that Orton would not be back in 2015. Marrone was trying to brush up on his resume by winning a meaningless game (to get the record over .500 and claim a big road "win" over New England, the first in 14 years) rather than get a good look at players like Manuel. Marrone already knew he was going to cash in on that out-clause in the contract, and he also knew that Rex was about to get fired from the Jets (his dream job). Essentially, after demanding loyalty, etc. from his players all season, Marrone quit on them when he had a chance. Other teams (including the Jets) saw this too, which is why it took him a couple of years to get another job. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said: It is hard to say. Marrone deserves credit for creating a more disciplined environment and for hiring well-qualified and effective defensive coordinators. But he also had an abrasive personality and could not get along with anyone else in the front office. While he may have been right (especially regarding the QB position), he was just so snarky... He is doing well with the Jags because he and Coughlin are of a like-mind, and the team (loaded defense) has played well. But, minus a string of winning seasons, his act in Jacksonville will eventually get old too. He's just not a likeable fellow. Honestly, I am not sure that the Bills would have been any better in 2015 than Rex's 8-8 had Marrone stayed. Don't get me wrong, I know that the Rex hire was a huge mistake, and I realize that he ruined an outstanding defense. But recall that Orton had announced his retirement, and the de facto starter would have been EJ. Rex was the one who brought in Tyrod, so it unlikely that Tyrod plays for the Bills in 2015 if Marrone is still on board. Recall also that the veteran that the Bills brought in that year was Matt Cassel. So even though the defense would have been better with Schwartz still at the helm, the offense probably would not have been as good with EJ/Cassel/Hackett running the show. Finally, the elephant in the room is that Marrone was self-serving. The Bills had been eliminated from the playoffs headed into that final game of the season -- and the Patriots were resting many of their starters. EJ remained a huge question mark -- and there was already a sense that Orton would not be back in 2015. Marrone was trying to brush up on his resume by winning a meaningless game (to get the record over .500 and claim a big road "win" over New England, the first in 14 years) rather than get a good look at players like Manuel. Marrone already knew he was going to cash in on that out-clause in the contract, and he also knew that Rex was about to get fired from the Jets (his dream job). Essentially, after demanding loyalty, etc. from his players all season, Marrone quit on them when he had a chance. Other teams (including the Jets) saw this too, which is why it took him a couple of years to get another job. Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Klaista2k said: If we kept Schwartz we could've had him for life as defensive coordinator I think. Keep in mind he already failed miserably as a Head Coach - So I really don't think he'd get another head coaching opportunity. Think about that... We could've had one of the best defensive coordinators in the league with NO chance of him ever leaving... only this franchise would screw that up. i have no idea where this comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 i think it's safe to speculate the drought would have ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said: But he also had an abrasive personality and could not get along with anyone else in the front office. Do you think that might be because everyone else in the FO was an idiot? Has that not been proven out? Maybe Marrone saw that Pegula was going to keep Whaley and Brandon, and he just said, !@#$ it, I'm out of this joke show... I mean, he made the decision to quit an NFL head coaching job... That has happened twice to the Bills recently. WTF do you think that says about the organization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Marrone as I recall wanted total control, wanted Whaley gone so he could make all personnel decisions,. Terry said no. So Marrone took the out clause in his contract and left. I don't think we'd be any better now if he had stayed. His offensive philosophy is still suspect, with Hackett running things. They have not developed Bortles into a decent starter, and it is unlikely they would have done so here assuming they would have drafted a kid. Defensively Schwartz maybe stays, but other than the three game meltdown I think our D has been just fine given the deficiencies in personnel. The thing you'll never know is what personnel moves Marrone would have made. Would he have kept Schwartz? What kind of drafts would he have had? e would have been in charge, but he has never been in charge of personnel decisions in the pros. He's successful now, but the Jags GM had put a lot of talent on the D side of the ball prior to this year, and now Coughlin oversees all such decisions. Successful teams have unity of purpose. Either that is centered with one person, Like Belichick, or you have to have a GM and HC in complete synchrony, with the Seahawks being a good example there. Marrone seems to be dealing with his current structure where he shares duties with a GM and has to report to Coughlin. It will be interesting to see if MArrone's ego can stand that long term. Maybe being out of the league for a couple years brought him back to reality. Meanwhile, we have the synchrony between HC and GM now. They need to make good decisions going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, T-Bomb said: Do you think that might be because everyone else in the FO was an idiot? Has that not been proven out? Maybe Marrone saw that Pegula was going to keep Whaley and Brandon, and he just said, !@#$ it, I'm out of this joke show... I mean, he made the decision to quit an NFL head coaching job... That has happened twice to the Bills recently. WTF do you think that says about the organization? Mularky quit a decade ago dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said: Mularky quit a decade ago dude. How many NFL teams have had head coaches quit in the last decade? Maybe it's more than I am thinking, but I am thinking only the Bills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, T-Bomb said: How many NFL teams have had head coaches quit in the last decade? Maybe it's more than I am thinking, but I am thinking only the Bills... Kubiak from the Broncos Dave Wannestedt from Miami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Yes we would. He was an a-hole, but he was OUR a-hole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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