Sammy Watkins complaining about targets again

[Deranged Rhino]

Worth at least 2-3 wins?

 

They beat both Philly and Cinci with a legit threat at WR.

[QCity]

No man, his serial defenders are too invested in him to admit that they were probably wrong. The excuse train will go on through the season into the next if need be.

 

It's always someone else's fault. First it was TT, then it was the coaches fault for not targeting him more often, then it was the injuries, then it was him being forced to play with injuries, then it was him being traded and not having enough time to learn the playbook, then it was because he's the only elite WR to be used as a decoy week in and week out, now it's because of Goff.

 

Do you see a pattern here?

 

I wonder if the Watkins fans even realize they are now in their 4th year of making excuses for the guy? Time flies when you are cherrypicking stats and pointing blame, huh?

[Boatdrinks]

Watch the games. TT nor Goff looks for him. They have the play sent in and don't survey the field of the matchups.

 

I can promise you that any competent seasoned QB would be throwing him the ball. These are basically rookies.

 

Also the #1 defenders are assigned to him as are double teams. But I guess opposing coaches don't know anything either.

 

It is sad to see.

Again I agree with this assessment after actually watching the games. Unlike the haters here who look at a box score. I've seen SW holding his hand up wide open and Goff doesn't even look there. SW is doing his job as far as I can tell. He s still the new guy there but Goff seems to lock onto targets and not go through his progressions at times.

No man, his serial defenders are too invested in him to admit that they were probably wrong. The excuse train will go on through the season into the next if need be.

It's always someone else's fault. First it was TT, then it was the coaches fault for not targeting him more often, then it was the injuries, then it was him being forced to play with injuries, then it was him being traded and not having enough time to learn the playbook, then it was because he's the only elite WR to be used as a decoy week in and week out, now it's because of Goff.

Do you see a pattern here?

Wow , it actually bothers you that there are fans of Watkins, the player? Not all of us root only for laundry. That seems to offend you. Whatever your diatribe is based on, you spend a lot of time worrying about a player you clearly don't don't like.

Goff is still in a very early stage of his development so his ability to scan the field is still rudimentary. Given time and with a young passing qb who is going to get better Watkins will be targeted more, assuming he signs there. Watkins joined the Rams late so he didn't have an opportunity to work out with the team in the offseason. Right now Goff is more comfortable throwing to Kupp. As time goes on Watkins should be more involved with the offense. Anyone who is dismissing Watkins from a talent standpoint is because of his personality is making a mistake.

 

Solid and realistic analysis. He got traded to the Rams and is playing with a QB that didn't even look ready for prime time in 2016. It's not like he was traded to the Patriots.

[oldmanfan]

Again I agree with this assessment after actually watching the games. Unlike the haters here who look at a box score. I've seen SW holding his hand up wide open and Goff doesn't even look there. SW is doing his job as far as I can tell. He s still the new guy there but Goff seems to lock onto targets and not go through his progressions at times.

 

Wow , it actually bothers you that there are fans of Watkins, the player? Not all of us root only for laundry. That seems to offend you. Whatever your diatribe is based on, you spend a lot of time worrying about a player you clearly don't don't like.

 

Solid and realistic analysis. He got traded to the Rams and is playing with a QB that didn't even look ready for prime time in 2016. It's not like he was traded to the Patriots.

Regarding the last paragraph, that was why the Bills drafted him. To give a young QB (EJ) a great receiver to rely on. Why is it a great plan for the Rams but was a terrible plan for the Bills? And before starting on the Because EJ was bad trail, EL okoked better as a rookie than did Goff.

Again I agree with this assessment after actually watching the games. Unlike the haters here who look at a box score. I've seen SW holding his hand up wide open and Goff doesn't even look there. SW is doing his job as far as I can tell. He s still the new guy there but Goff seems to lock onto targets and not go through his progressions at times.

 

Wow , it actually bothers you that there are fans of Watkins, the player? Not all of us root only for laundry. That seems to offend you. Whatever your diatribe is based on, you spend a lot of time worrying about a player you clearly don't don't like.

 

Solid and realistic analysis. He got traded to the Rams and is playing with a QB that didn't even look ready for prime time in 2016. It's not like he was traded to the Patriots.

Regarding the last paragraph, that was why the Bills drafted him. To give a young QB (EJ) a great receiver to rely on. Why is it a great plan for the Rams but was a terrible plan for the Bills? And before starting on the Because EJ was bad trail, EL looked better as a rookie than did Goff.

[mead107]

Not a Bill. Care less what the guy does.

[Boatdrinks]

Regarding the last paragraph, that was why the Bills drafted him. To give a young QB (EJ) a great receiver to rely on. Why is it a great plan for the Rams but was a terrible plan for the Bills? And before starting on the Because EJ was bad trail, EL looked better as a rookie than did Goff.

Who said it was a terrible plan for the Bills or a great one for the Rams? As far as the Bills drafting him, I liked the move personally. I thought the price was very high but I liked the player. I'm not sure what it has to do with EJM. EJM barely started any games with Watkins ( though he did hang him out to dry in preseason vs Shazier) Kyle Orton was the QB for most of Watkins rookie year. Goff is still finding his way as a QB, and Watkins has yet to be fully integrated into that offense. Yes, I've actually watched the Rams games.

[oldmanfan]

Who said it was a terrible plan for the Bills or a great one for the Rams? As far as the Bills drafting him, I liked the move personally. I thought the price was very high but I liked the player. I'm not sure what it has to do with EJM. EJM barely started any games with Watkins ( though he did hang him out to dry in preseason vs Shazier) Kyle Orton was the QB for most of Watkins rookie year. Goff is still finding his way as a QB, and Watkins has yet to be fully integrated into that offense. Yes, I've actually watched the Rams games.

Who said it was a terrible plan for the Bills? Have you seen posts about it for the last 5 years or so?

[Gugny]

It's a smart move by Watkins. If the Rams are trying to keep his cost down by limiting his targets or just simply not interested in making him a focal point, why not plan your exit? He didn't ask to be traded. He likely wants to be a free agent under those circumstances. The second contract is usually a players chance to get paid, while they are relatively young. All good WRs want the ball, it just comes with the territory.

 

It seems to me that Sam always has an excuse to not play through discomfort, not play his hardest for his team, or to simply not play at all.

 

This guy seriously has not earned a God damn thing.

[Boatdrinks]

It seems to me that Sam always has an excuse to not play through discomfort, not play his hardest for his team, or to simply not play at all.

 

This guy seriously has not earned a God damn thing.

 

I'm guessing that there will be NFL teams that disagree with you.

Who said it was a terrible plan for the Bills? Have you seen posts about it for the last 5 years or so?

I don't think I understand your question or point

[oldmanfan]

I'm guessing that there will be NFL teams that disagree with you.

 

I don't think I understand your question or point

You asked who said it was a terrible plan when the Bills drafted Watkins as a target for EJ. I would conservatively say there have been well over a thousand posts back on the BBMB and here blasting the Bills for doing so. And now some of the same people talk about what a smart move it was for the Rams to bring in Sammy to give a young QB a target. The hypocrisy among some folks is amusing.

 

And sorry , but I also don't think the Rams are deliberately telling Goff to not throw to Sammy so his contract demands go down. That's way over the top IMHO

[Gugny]

I'm guessing that there will be NFL teams that disagree with you.

 

 

There will be, for sure. And he'll put up great numbers on a team with a losing record. Because he's selfish.

[boyst]

I'm asking this as a serious question. Was the topic related to farming and local enterprises?

yes for all but 1.

[Boatdrinks]

You asked who said it was a terrible plan when the Bills drafted Watkins as a target for EJ. I would conservatively say there have been well over a thousand posts back on the BBMB and here blasting the Bills for doing so. And now some of the same people talk about what a smart move it was for the Rams to bring in Sammy to give a young QB a target. The hypocrisy among some folks is amusing.

And sorry , but I also don't think the Rams are deliberately telling Goff to not throw to Sammy so his contract demands go down. That's way over the top IMHO

Ok. And I'm not saying they are telling Goff to do anything specific. It's apparent he is more comfortable with the guys he practiced with since spring mini camps though. And watching the offense it seems SW is often running the clearing routes for underneath passes. That is a subtle thing but almost ensures that the ball is going elsewhere by design. It could be to just ease him into the offense with simple routes. But it's obvious they are not scheming ways to get Sammy Watkins the ball. Whether you think it's over the top or not, they know they have a contract negotiation coming up and they have other targets that they worked on offensive design with all offseason before making the Watkins trade. It was clearly a move for the future rather than 2017 and it could suit them financially if Watkins had an average year statistically. They will score points regardless.

There will be, for sure. And he'll put up great numbers on a team with a losing record. Because he's selfish.

I don't care if players are selfish. WRs always want the ball. If he wants the ball great, get it to him. The best looking Bills offense in recent years was when Roman made an effort to get Watkins the ball early and often.

[Gugny]

 

I don't care if players are selfish. WRs always want the ball. If he wants the ball great, get it to him. The best looking Bills offense in recent years was when Roman made an effort to get Watkins the ball early and often.

 

He'd be a better selfish player if he was on the field when he gets boo boos. The guy is a selfish, arrogant, immature, stupid punk. I was ecstatic when I got the alert that he was gone. He's no pro. No respect for the game or his teammates. Now on two different teams. That, my friend, is a pattern.

[C.Biscuit97]

Ok. And I'm not saying they are telling Goff to do anything specific. It's apparent he is more comfortable with the guys he practiced with since spring mini camps though. And watching the offense it seems SW is often running the clearing routes for underneath passes. That is a subtle thing but almost ensures that the ball is going elsewhere by design. It could be to just ease him into the offense with simple routes. But it's obvious they are not scheming ways to get Sammy Watkins the ball. Whether you think it's over the top or not, they know they have a contract negotiation coming up and they have other targets that they worked on offensive design with all offseason before making the Watkins trade. It was clearly a move for the future rather than 2017 and it could suit them financially if Watkins had an average year statistically. They will score points regardless.

 

I don't care if players are selfish. WRs always want the ball. If he wants the ball great, get it to him. The best looking Bills offense in recent years was when Roman made an effort to get Watkins the ball early and often.

WRs are annoying. But remember that game against KC where Sammy was absolutely murdering them in the first half & then for some reason, they stopped throwing him the ball?

[Boatdrinks]

He'd be a better selfish player if he was on the field when he gets boo boos. The guy is a selfish, arrogant, immature, stupid punk. I was ecstatic when I got the alert that he was gone. He's no pro. No respect for the game or his teammates. Now on two different teams. That, my friend, is a pattern.

You don't like the player. I do. I hated the trade, he was my favorite player on the Bills. So is till watch him. Why spend time worrying about players you don't like?

WRs are annoying. But remember that game against KC where Sammy was absolutely murdering them in the first half & then for some reason, they stopped throwing him the ball?

They can be, but it's part of the drama that is the NFL and makes it as compelling as it is. Yes I remember it well. I had more hope for the Bills offense after that last half of 2015 than I have in a long time. Then the injury pretty much derailed his 2016 season.

[Cynical]

Nothing justifies giving up on a route. I never claimed otherwise. But it happens... to more than just Sammy.

 

We are not talking about other WR. We are about talking Sammy Watkins. Who is in a contract year (motivation!).

Who, according to his supporters on here, was going to have a pro bowl year with 1600 yds, etc, etc

Who, prior to this game, stated he understood he was not going to get targeted like Julio Jones and others, and that he was going to be a team player

Who was called out by his QB for quitting on route.

Who is now back on twitter essentially complaining he is not being targeted enough.

 

And you still haven't answered the question of how many more weeks we will have to wait until we see his "eliteness". Come on, ball park a number.

Because the longer we wait, the value of that asset continues to drop.

 

Disagree. The only question other teams had about Watkins - and I'm basing this on what I've heard from actual people in the league - was about his ability to remain healthy. He hadn't played meaningful snaps in months and had spent the off season fending off questions about his foot. Health concerns cratered his value, justifiably so.

So what you have is a perceived value prior to the season. That is not actual value. Just because something is shiny and looks like gold, doesn't mean it's gold.

That perceived value also assumes all of Sammy Watkins production issues were related to the organization and how he was used (TT was his QB, run heavy scheme, etc)

But a funny thing happened. He got traded. He's now the 3-4 WR. The foot is no longer the issue. Where's the production?

 

I completely agree it was a risk to hold onto him. Had he been injured in the first 5 weeks, then my point is moot. But had the Bills hung onto him for the first five games, not only would they probably be sitting at 5-0, his value would be far higher than it was in early August.

Your point is still moot. You assume Sammy's value could only go up. Your entire assumption of increased value is based on a belief that somehow Sammy's production would increase if he stayed here.

And that somehow, the Bills would be 5-0.

Mind you, this is with Taylor still being his QB, and Taylor is supposedly one of the reasons why Sammy's numbers suck to begin with. Feel free to explain how that works.

 

What if the Bills already concluded Sammy's production was not going to go up, because the biggest issue with Sammy is Sammy himself.

That it wasn't the QB, or the scheme, or the injury.

So if you are the Bills, what are your choices?

Keep him and play him, hoping a contract year would somehow put Sammys head on straight? (Well we already know the answer to that one)

Keep him and play him, revealing to the rest of the league the problem really might be Sammy himself? (kinda beginning to look that way)

Or capitalize on that perceived value and trade him.

 

Remember that old axiom: If a deal sounds to good to be true, it probably isn't. Well, if a team is willing to take peanuts for an "elite" WR ...

[Boatdrinks]

We are not talking about other WR. We are about talking Sammy Watkins. Who is in a contract year (motivation!).

Who, according to his supporters on here, was going to have a pro bowl year with 1600 yds, etc, etc

Who, prior to this game, stated he understood he was not going to get targeted like Julio Jones and others, and that he was going to be a team player

Who was called out by his QB for quitting on route.

Who is now back on twitter essentially complaining he is not being targeted enough.

 

And you still haven't answered the question of how many more weeks we will have to wait until we see his "eliteness". Come on, ball park a number.

Because the longer we wait, the value of that asset continues to drop.

 

 

So what you have is a perceived value prior to the season. That is not actual value. Just because something is shiny and looks like gold, doesn't mean it's gold.

That perceived value also assumes all of Sammy Watkins production issues were related to the organization and how he was used (TT was his QB, run heavy scheme, etc)

But a funny thing happened. He got traded. He's now the 3-4 WR. The foot is no longer the issue. Where's the production?

 

 

Your point is still moot. You assume Sammy's value could only go up. Your entire assumption of increased value is based on a belief that somehow Sammy's production would increase if he stayed here.

And that somehow, the Bills would be 5-0.

Mind you, this is with Taylor still being his QB, and Taylor is supposedly one of the reasons why Sammy's numbers suck to begin with. Feel free to explain how that works.

 

What if the Bills already concluded Sammy's production was not going to go up, because the biggest issue with Sammy is Sammy himself.

That it wasn't the QB, or the scheme, or the injury.

So if you are the Bills, what are your choices?

Keep him and play him, hoping a contract year would somehow put Sammys head on straight? (Well we already know the answer to that one)

Keep him and play him, revealing to the rest of the league the problem really might be Sammy himself? (kinda beginning to look that way)

Or capitalize on that perceived value and trade him.

 

Remember that old axiom: If a deal sounds to good to be true, it probably isn't. Well, if a team is willing to take peanuts for an "elite" WR ...

 

Pssst... you can calm down, Watkins isn't on the Bills anymore.

Seriously why the worry by so many who don't like Sammy Watkins? Why bother following a guy you don't like. Personally I find it rather hilarious, it doesn't bother me . I find it curious though. Watkins was my favorite player on the Bills. I watch Rams games because I like the player . I hate the Patriots, so I don't watch their games save for a couple involving the Bills or the odd team that I think might beat them. I don't follow players I don't like. It seems very odd. Just my opinion.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Some of you guys crack me up. Sammy is elite. Whether you like his personality or not is irrelevant. He was way underutilized in Buffalo because of the ground n pound philosophy along with a mediocre risk adverse qb. Now the Rams braintrust are making the same mistakes. Mark my words Sammy will land somewhere where he's featured.

Already has

 

https://www.sammywatkinsnfl.com/

What's Kyle Williams website?

[bobobonators]

No man, his serial defenders are too invested in him to admit that they were probably wrong. The excuse train will go on through the season into the next if need be.

 

It's always someone else's fault. First it was TT, then it was the coaches fault for not targeting him more often, then it was the injuries, then it was him being forced to play with injuries, then it was him being traded and not having enough time to learn the playbook, then it was because he's the only elite WR to be used as a decoy week in and week out, now it's because of Goff.

 

Do you see a pattern here?

From what i read here, the only thing TT needed to become an elite WR was a "real qb". Now he has a fancy 1st overall pick at QB and hes producing less than he did here.

[Dr.Sack]

Sammy

[Deranged Rhino]

And you still haven't answered the question of how many more weeks we will have to wait until we see his "eliteness". Come on, ball park a number.

Because the longer we wait, the value of that asset continues to drop.

 

I did answer it - no one is waiting to "see his eliteness". He's displayed it already. What he hasn't yet done is shown consistent availability. That's on him to prove. When you watch his tape his elite qualities jump off the screen. The only folks who deny this are ones with an agenda or an ax to grind.

 

 

So what you have is a perceived value prior to the season. That is not actual value. Just because something is shiny and looks like gold, doesn't mean it's gold.

That perceived value also assumes all of Sammy Watkins production issues were related to the organization and how he was used (TT was his QB, run heavy scheme, etc)

 

This is all Incorrect. Sammy's value is determined by the front offices of 32 teams and their needs. On an individual scouting level there isn't a scout in the league that will say Sammy is anything other than an elite talent at the WR position. To argue this is to either expose your own ignorance at player evaluations or your agenda.

 

Headed into this season the big flag on Sammy's scouting reports were health related, and because of that his value was deflated at the time of the trade. This, again, is inarguable. Now, every team is going to make their evaluations differently in terms of what Sammy would need to "do" to make them feel comfortable about his long term health issues, but clearly teams still valued Sammy highly considering what the Rams gave up to procure him without knowing for sure if he's "injury prone".

 

The perceived value has little to do with the scheme of the team he's coming from. That barely enters into the equation when considering if they want to deal for him. It's about his physical talents (of which Sammy's are elite in nearly every category you'd want for a receiver), scheme fit, personality (definitely plays a role) and projected value in your system.

 

 

But a funny thing happened. He got traded. He's now the 3-4 WR. The foot is no longer the issue. Where's the production?

 

It's a long season and he's 5 games in - after getting traded mid camp to a team with a young QB. Chemistry takes a bit of time to develop. You want to say he's not producing based on 5 games that's your prerogative, I just think you're jumping the gun.

 

Ask the Rams if he's making an impact on Sundays, or watch the tape. They're pleased with what he brings to the field here in LA, I promise you.

 

 

 

Your point is still moot. You assume Sammy's value could only go up. Your entire assumption of increased value is based on a belief that somehow Sammy's production would increase if he stayed here.

 

Incorrect. That is not what I said nor the point I'm making.

 

I'm saying Sammy's already put up enough numbers in Buffalo to net a higher return than what they got. The only people who are under the delusion that Sammy isn't a legit #1 WR are Bills fans who have an agenda against the guy. Every other personnel department in the league has him as a #1, including the Bills.

 

The missing piece was he was injured for most of the last season. I never assumed Sammy's value could only go up, in fact I said the opposite. What I did say was that I'm betting on his value going up just by demonstrating he's not injury prone.

 

That takes more than two weeks of training camp to prove, and more than 5 games to be fair.

 

 

 

And that somehow, the Bills would be 5-0.

Mind you, this is with Taylor still being his QB, and Taylor is supposedly one of the reasons why Sammy's numbers suck to begin with. Feel free to explain how that works.

 

You can keep putting words into my mouth and argue points I never made, or we can stick to what I say and focus on that. I haven't mentioned Taylor once, nor scheme.

 

But if you want my opinion on that:

 

Taylor and Sammy have established chemistry that Goff and Sammy are still building. If Sammy stayed in Buffalo, even with a new system, his learning curve is much shorter. Of course I'm speculating saying the Bills would be 5-0 with Sammy - but it's a pretty safe speculation. The Bills were a legit WR threat away from beating Carolina and Cinci. Sammy is a legit WR threat who has undeniable chemistry Taylor.

 

This front office traded away at least two wins already by moving Sammy. Maybe that won't matter come December. I'm guessing it will.

 

 

 

What if the Bills already concluded Sammy's production was not going to go up, because the biggest issue with Sammy is Sammy himself.

 

That is indeed the entire question we are debating. My response is, unless Sammy is sacrificing goats in the locker room before games, his attitude and demands are entirely in line with every other WR in the league. And that, to me, is not worth shipping out an elite playmaker when your roster is nearly devoid of elite playmakers.

 

If Sammy's attitude problems extend beyond being "selfish/demanding the ball", then we're having a different conversation. So far, that's all we've heard. To me, it's a silly reason - culture or no culture - to sacrifice a legit defense and shot at the playoffs because you think Sammy is "selfish". You, obviously, disagree.

 

So let me ask you... let's say this team finishes 8-8 and two games out of the playoffs. And for sake of argument let's just say you agree they would have beaten Cinci and Carolina with Sammy still on the team. Would you say that sacrificing those two wins, and missing out on the playoffs for an 18th straight season in the process, was worth it just to get rid of a diva wide receiver?

 

Don't you think a first year coach and GM would get more out of ending the playoff drought than they would a second round pick and EJ Gaines in terms of both goodwill of ownership and the fans?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Deranged Rhino

[Thurman#1]

A receiver complaining about targets? Wow, next thing you'll tell me some actors are temperamental.

[Billsfan1972]

 

I did answer it - no one is waiting to "see his eliteness". He's displayed it already. What he hasn't yet done is shown consistent availability. That's on him to prove. When you watch his tape his elite qualities jump off the screen. The only folks who deny this are ones with an agenda or an ax to grind.

 

 

This is all Incorrect. Sammy's value is determined by the front offices of 32 teams and their needs. On an individual scouting level there isn't a scout in the league that will say Sammy is anything other than an elite talent at the WR position. To argue this is to either expose your own ignorance at player evaluations or your agenda.

 

Headed into this season the big flag on Sammy's scouting reports were health related, and because of that his value was deflated at the time of the trade. This, again, is inarguable. Now, every team is going to make their evaluations differently in terms of what Sammy would need to "do" to make them feel comfortable about his long term health issues, but clearly teams still valued Sammy highly considering what the Rams gave up to procure him without knowing for sure if he's "injury prone".

 

The perceived value has little to do with the scheme of the team he's coming from. That barely enters into the equation when considering if they want to deal for him. It's about his physical talents (of which Sammy's are elite in nearly every category you'd want for a receiver), scheme fit, personality (definitely plays a role) and projected value in your system.

 

 

 

It's a long season and he's 5 games in - after getting traded mid camp to a team with a young QB. Chemistry takes a bit of time to develop. You want to say he's not producing based on 5 games that's your prerogative, I just think you're jumping the gun.

 

Ask the Rams if he's making an impact on Sundays, or watch the tape. They're pleased with what he brings to the field here in LA, I promise you.

 

 

 

Incorrect. That is not what I said nor the point I'm making.

 

I'm saying Sammy's already put up enough numbers in Buffalo to net a higher return than what they got. The only people who are under the delusion that Sammy isn't a legit #1 WR are Bills fans who have an agenda against the guy. Every other personnel department in the league has him as a #1, including the Bills.

 

The missing piece was he was injured for most of the last season. I never assumed Sammy's value could only go up, in fact I said the opposite. What I did say was that I'm betting on his value going up just by demonstrating he's not injury prone.

 

That takes more than two weeks of training camp to prove, and more than 5 games to be fair.

 

 

 

You can keep putting words into my mouth and argue points I never made, or we can stick to what I say and focus on that. I haven't mentioned Taylor once, nor scheme.

 

But if you want my opinion on that:

 

Taylor and Sammy have established chemistry that Goff and Sammy are still building. If Sammy stayed in Buffalo, even with a new system, his learning curve is much shorter. Of course I'm speculating saying the Bills would be 5-0 with Sammy - but it's a pretty safe speculation. The Bills were a legit WR threat away from beating Carolina and Cinci. Sammy is a legit WR threat who has undeniable chemistry Taylor.

 

This front office traded away at least two wins already by moving Sammy. Maybe that won't matter come December. I'm guessing it will.

 

 

 

That is indeed the entire question we are debating. My response is, unless Sammy is sacrificing goats in the locker room before games, his attitude and demands are entirely in line with every other WR in the league. And that, to me, is not worth shipping out an elite playmaker when your roster is nearly devoid of elite playmakers.

 

If Sammy's attitude problems extend beyond being "selfish/demanding the ball", then we're having a different conversation. So far, that's all we've heard. To me, it's a silly reason - culture or no culture - to sacrifice a legit defense and shot at the playoffs because you think Sammy is "selfish". You, obviously, disagree.

 

So let me ask you... let's say this team finishes 8-8 and two games out of the playoffs. And for sake of argument let's just say you agree they would have beaten Cinci and Carolina with Sammy still on the team. Would you say that sacrificing those two wins, and missing out on the playoffs for an 18th straight season in the process, was worth it just to get rid of a diva wide receiver?

 

Don't you think a first year coach and GM would get more out of ending the playoff drought than they would a second round pick and EJ Gaines in terms of both goodwill of ownership and the fans?

Trust the process......

 

Not worth arguing as those who hated Watkins was solely based on them buying in to the crapshoot that is the NFL Draft.

 

The Bills paid too much and he get's injured.

 

Who cares when he was 100% healthy he was elite.

 

8-8 is the worst case scenario (and very likely) as now the TT debate and a mid first round pick is up the Bills again.

 

I didn't fully blame TT, I thought the OC made little attempt to spotlight him. They seem to do it with Shady, but as I always said you watch Watkins and the lack of movement or lining him up elsewhere along with Tyrod seldom surveying the field or audiblng (sp?) and to me it was a major issue.

 

I see the same with Goff.

 

So for the "HATERS" please answer me why opposing coaches have their best players and double coverage assigned to Watkins if he is so bad?

 

Why do countless press/announcers/experts too ask why Goff isn't throwing to him?

[JohnC]

You realize this was the exact argument made for drafting him, give a young developing QB a great receiver to make his job easier. And the Bills got blasted for it.

You got the argument twisted. In Buffalo Whaley's reasoning was that a talented receiver could make the limited qb functional. Taylor was never considered to be a young developing qb in the sense that he had recognized limitations to his game. There is no point to argue otherwise because this veteran qb has not outgrown his liabilities. He is what he is. Or another way of saying it the receiver was brought in at a costly price to prop up the qb. That's different from having a talented passing qb maximizing the talents of a receiver. So far in LA Watkins hasn't been fully exploited. But that shouldn't be a surprise because he joined the team late and the Rams have other weapons such as Gurley and Kupp.

 

I have said it many times but it is futile to heavily invest in a talented receiver, whoever it may be, if the qb is mediocre at best. The Falcons got it right when they made an expensive deal to draft Julio Jones because they had Matt Ryan as their qb. Buffalo as usual got it half-assssed backwards.

Again I agree with this assessment after actually watching the games. Unlike the haters here who look at a box score. I've seen SW holding his hand up wide open and Goff doesn't even look there. SW is doing his job as far as I can tell. He s still the new guy there but Goff seems to lock onto targets and not go through his progressions at times.

 

Wow , it actually bothers you that there are fans of Watkins, the player? Not all of us root only for laundry. That seems to offend you. Whatever your diatribe is based on, you spend a lot of time worrying about a player you clearly don't don't like.

 

Solid and realistic analysis. He got traded to the Rams and is playing with a QB that didn't even look ready for prime time in 2016. It's not like he was traded to the Patriots.

With respect to the highlighted segment you make a good point. The Rams made a big investment in trading for Goff. Especially with qbs there is a developmental period. In his rookie year he simply wasn't ready. In his second year he made a quantum leap but still is far away from being an established qb. In the next year or two he should be a much more impactful player. Because of the time required for the learning process I have strongly argued to get a serious prospect on board sooner rather than later. Dithering is not a solution---it is a problem.

[oldmanfan]

You got the argument twisted. In Buffalo Whaley's reasoning was that a talented receiver could make the limited qb functional. Taylor was never considered to be a young developing qb in the sense that he had recognized limitations to his game. There is no point to argue otherwise because this veteran qb has not outgrown his liabilities. He is what he is. Or another way of saying it the receiver was brought in at a costly price to prop up the qb. That's different from having a talented passing qb maximizing the talents of a receiver. So far in LA Watkins hasn't been fully exploited. But that shouldn't be a surprise because he joined the team late and the Rams have other weapons such as Gurley and Kupp.

 

I have said it many times but it is futile to heavily invest in a talented receiver, whoever it may be, if the qb is mediocre at best. The Falcons got it right when they made an expensive deal to draft Julio Jones because they had Matt Ryan as their qb. Buffalo as usual got it half-assssed backwards.

With respect to the highlighted segment you make a good point. The Rams made a big investment in trading for Goff. Especially with qbs there is a developmental period. In his rookie year he simply wasn't ready. In his second year he made a quantum leap but still is far away from being an established qb. In the next year or two he should be a much more impactful player. Because of the time required for the learning process I have strongly argued to get a serious prospect on board sooner rather than later. Dithering is not a solution---it is a problem.

They drafted Watkins to help out EJ, not Taylor. Get your QBs straight. And EJ looked better as a rookie that did Goff.

 

It's just typical hypocrisy around here.

[JohnC]

They drafted Watkins to help out EJ, not Taylor. Get your QBs straight. And EJ looked better as a rookie that did Goff.

 

It's just typical hypocrisy around here.

You are right that they drafted Watkins to help EJ. It didn't work because the problem was with the qb. The same issue followed when Taylor became the qb. The point is that the receiver is not substantially going to mask the inherent deficiencies that the qb has. That's the point!

 

With respect to EJ looking better than Goff as a rookie, so what? Who is the better qb now and in the future? EJ is going to be a pedestrian backup while Goff has the potential to be an established franchise qb for the rest of his career. When you make an instant judgment on a player without allowing for development time you are making judgments that are prone to be wrong.

[Coach Tuesday]

He is getting open. I dont hear any of you saying otherwise, nor could you, because he is. So whats the problem? Either hes running the wrong routes (but still getting open) or the passing game is being designed to exploit other matchups. Which is it?

 

I suspect that McVay is installing his offense carefully and getting Goff used to short and intermediate reads and routes first. Once Goff gets comfortable with those higher-percentage passes and gains confidence, youll see them utilize the deeper routes that Sammy runs. I expect him to go on a tear beginning this month or early November. The only thing that will hold him back is injury.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Coach Tuesday

[JohnC]

He is getting open. I dont hear any of you saying otherwise, nor could you, because he is. So whats the problem? Either hes running the wrong routes (but still getting open) or the passing game is being designed to exploit other matchups. Which is it?

 

I suspect that McVay is installing his offense carefully and getting Goff used to short and intermediate reads and routes first. Once Goff gets comfortable with those higher-percentage passes and gains confidence, youll see them utilize the deeper routes that Sammy runs. I expect him to go on a tear beginning this month or early November. The only thing that will hold him back is injury.

You make an excellent point about keeping the game simple for Goff and then building off that. Herm Edwards was asked on a radio show why Goff is doing so much better this year and seems more confident. He made the point, as you did, that he called simple pass plays so that he can get completions and boost his confidence. This is good coaching and player development.

 

There is another factor as to why Goff is making a quantum leap forward in his second year. In the offseason, the OL was bolstered and the running game with Gurley was emphasized to take the pressure off of the qb. In addition, Kupp was drafted and Watkins was belatedly added. Or another way of saying this is that the offense got better with added players. What it came down to is that the qb was put in a better position to succeed.

[Billsfan1972]

You make an excellent point about keeping the game simple for Goff and then building off that. Herm Edwards was asked on a radio show why Goff is doing so much better this year and seems more confident. He made the point, as you did, that he called simple pass plays so that he can get completions and boost his confidence. This is good coaching and player development.

 

There is another factor as to why Goff is making a quantum leap forward in his second year. In the offseason, the OL was bolstered and the running game with Gurley was emphasized to take the pressure off of the qb. In addition, Kupp was drafted and Watkins was belatedly added. Or another way of saying this is that the offense got better with added players. What it came down to is that the qb was put in a better position to succeed.

And this was the same with TT. Watching Watkins run open or lined up in favorable coverage and no checkdowns, movement by the WR's, surveying the field or audibles drove me crazy.

 

Then week 2 of pre-season 4 straight passes to Watkins and all of a sudden it seems the light was turned on only to see him traded and a train wreck of an offense (setting TT to fail) tells me what I want to know about the Bills FO.

 

Again Watkins/Boldin/Jones vs. Matthews/Jones...... Which is better?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Billsfan1972

[CommonCents]

Goff has 24 completions of 20 plus yards which is tied for the league lead with Brady. So relating his success to simple throws is quite the stretttttcccchhhhhhhh.

[HappyDays]

He is getting open. I dont hear any of you saying otherwise, nor could you, because he is. So whats the problem? Either hes running the wrong routes (but still getting open) or the passing game is being designed to exploit other matchups. Which is it?

 

I suspect that McVay is installing his offense carefully and getting Goff used to short and intermediate reads and routes first. Once Goff gets comfortable with those higher-percentage passes and gains confidence, youll see them utilize the deeper routes that Sammy runs. I expect him to go on a tear beginning this month or early November. The only thing that will hold him back is injury.

But this is the problem with Sammy. He's a great deep threat and that's it. The elite receivers people have been comparing him to for years, like Julio Jones, can run an intermediate route in double coverage and you can still trust him to catch the ball most of the time. Sammy stretches the field and acts as a decoy. He did that in Buffalo and he's doing it now in LA. It's getting to the point where you have to admit that's all he is really good for. And I would trade a receiver with that skill set for a 2nd round pick over paying him elite money 100% of the time.

[row_33]

Sammy Watkins complaining.

 

That was enough to set my watch by.

[oldmanfan]

You are right that they drafted Watkins to help EJ. It didn't work because the problem was with the qb. The same issue followed when Taylor became the qb. The point is that the receiver is not substantially going to mask the inherent deficiencies that the qb has. That's the point!

 

With respect to EJ looking better than Goff as a rookie, so what? Who is the better qb now and in the future? EJ is going to be a pedestrian backup while Goff has the potential to be an established franchise qb for the rest of his career. When you make an instant judgment on a player without allowing for development time you are making judgments that are prone to be wrong.

The same people that went nuts over them draftingbhim to help EJ are all agog over the Rams getting him to help Goff. And EJ as a rookie looked better than Goff. It's revisionist history to claim otherwise.

[without a drought]

Are we still pretending that Sammy isn't better than anything we have at wr

[oldmanfan]

Are we still pretending that Sammy isn't better than anything we have at wr

Of course he is. I didn't like the trade. But it is puzzling that he hasn't shown a ton in LA

[Coach Tuesday]

Goff has 24 completions of 20 plus yards which is tied for the league lead with Brady. So relating his success to simple throws is quite the stretttttcccchhhhhhhh.

 

What is the average air distance traveled? And is Sammy getting open or not? I'll hang up and listen.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Coach Tuesday

[folz]

Rhino...Sammy may have elite ability and elite potential (you probably won't find many to disagree with that) but you can not call him an elite WR in this league.

At least not yet. With 4+ years in the league this is what you are getting from Sammy:

 

10 games played per season / 61 yds per game / .45 TDs per game

 

over a season, that would equate to 610 yds and 4 or 5 TDs. That is good for a 2nd WR, great for your 3rd WR, but does not equate to elite.

If he played 16 games with those averages, it looks better with 976 yards and 7 TDs which is very good, but still not elite.

 

Add in his availability issues to date and his possible "me" centric attitude and I doubt there are many teams who would have given us more than what we got

for him. No one was giving up a 1st rounder for that production. To think that every other front office would pay top dollar (money-wise or trade-value-wise) for

Sammy is naïve. Most GMs and coaches are conservative and don't pay for potential (they may draft for it, but you don't give up too many assets for it).

 

 

Yes, Sammy has big potential and if he stayed healthy for a whole season and had good QB play in the right scheme, no doubt he could be elite.

But there is no way he can be considered that at this point in his career. Elite potential means nothing until you prove it on a consistent basis.

Plenty of guys have had potential and it never quite panned out in the league. To be elite you have to be available and consistent. So far we have seen a few

games in his rookie year, one game for the Rams this year, and that 8-10 game stretch in 2015. That equates to less than 1/4 of his playing career thus far

where he played at an elite level.

 

I like Sammy, even drafted him in Fantasy because I thought he would break out now that he's healthy and maybe he will eventually reach elite status,

but as of now, no, he is not an elite receiver and I think the Bills made the right call moving on from him...even though we could use him now. It was the

right move for this team at this time.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

I think he's pretty great, what are you talking about?

Plus 1

[without a drought]

Of course he is. I didn't like the trade. But it is puzzling that he hasn't shown a ton in LA

They do have a lot of options to throw the ball to and I just think that their young qb is more comfortable with some of his other choices. Until the last 2 games he caught something like 12 of 13 targets. I think they'll be fine.

 

My main problem with the trade was that Sammy was the only player i would see Tyrod throw to with any anticipation.