Virgil Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I'm not trying to get into the tanking, not tanking conversation. No team is going to say they are tanking or in a complete rebuild when their are tickets to sell and players to keep happy. The Browns and Jets did it, but I think the fans wanted it too. Here's my concern. I believe that there's a natural transition whenever you get a new head coach. Nothing against the coach, but a new scheme just takes time for players to feel comfortable in and some players simply don't adapt. Look at our current DB's and LB's. We've pretty much turned them all over, not because they weren't good, but because they just don't fit. That's point #1. Point #2 is that we have the 4th hardest schedule. Yes, that changes from season to season, but I don't see it changing enough where we are given any favors. Point #3. Rookies are rare to contribute enough to where they are difference makers. Best case scenario is a solid contributor in their first 2 years. Put those 3 points together and I just don't see us making a playoff push this year or maybe even next. It's not that I'm a pessimist or disagree with what the team is doing. I would hold these standards to any team. I actually believe that we will get more production out of Matthews than Watkins. I agree that our defense will be better next year. But our offense line scares me and our no-name DB's/LB's scare me too. I just think it's too much against us. So with that, besides cap tragedies like Dareus, is there anyone that shouldn't be traded if we can't get value? Should anyone really be off limits? If the plan is to have a cap healthy team, with good young talent, where in 2 years when the Brady Era is done, is that a bad thing? While I hate the idea of 2 more years of non-playoffs, I think about the run we could go on from there. Again, I'm torn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Nothing to be torn about. We aren't a good team. Did you watch any of those preseason games and say wow we are going to beat Brady and the Pats? The smart thing to do is build for the future and maybe in 2-3 years we are ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Nothing to be torn about. We aren't a good team. Did you watch any of those preseason games and say wow we are going to beat Brady and the Pats? The smart thing to do is build for the future and maybe in 2-3 years we are readyTake two steps back now to take 3 steps forward later. I will respect this new staff more if that's the plan, it's a real plan. Draft this team a franchise worthy QB, enough of the other team backup garbage over and over again. The Chan/Rex plan of trying to win now with what this team has is a certain death that will end the same as the last few, fired within 3 years and a continuation of the longest loser streak in sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills fan since 87 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I'm just leary of building for the future plans. There is no guarantee it will work out. Given this franchise it's likely not to with our luck. I know it's a new staff and they deserve a chance but man as we all know it's rough having to hope things are better next year. Or the next.....I don't believe we were a playoff team this year but I had an inkling of hope. Post trades and the performance in Philly (I know, preseason) have left me feeling deflated and as if the rug was pulled out from under this season in what is usually the most exciting time of year for me. The future is never cetain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 well if they start out crappy then maybe we will get a good look at Peterman. IMO we will be lucky to go 8-8 this 1st season with the new staff. But finally for a change the future actually does seem to be brighter for this team. Didn't like the Sammy trade myself, but however, I like the draft position we will be in next draft though. I think within the next couple seasons this team will in the playoffs at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PABillsfan23 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) I wouldn't be shocked if they lose to the Jets week 1. That DL will demolish our OL Edited August 19, 2017 by PABillsfan23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Let's keep losing and continue to get more draft picks and hope we're good in a few years while other teams try to improve and win every year...what's another 4-5 years of no playoffs? I think so many here have never seen a winning Bills team that it affects your thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I never want to see the team tank aka quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I wouldn't be shocked if they lose to the Jets week 1. That DL will demolish our OL And you don't think our DL will demolish theirs, or do you only notice the bad? For all the off-season foibles of the offense, the defense has looked terrific so far, and they will be going against McCown, Petty, or Hackenberg who will be throwing to WRs who make ours look like Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate, and about the only thing the offense has going for them is Matt Forte. Also our line will hopefully have Glenn, Miller, and Dawkins going when the season starts. Nothing to be torn about. We aren't a good team. Did you watch any of those preseason games and say wow we are going to beat Brady and the Pats? The smart thing to do is build for the future and maybe in 2-3 years we are ready I get it, but we go through this every year. I don't see any particular reason this team will be any worse than last year's. Also, there is a lot more talent on this team than most here will give us credit. Most teams look bad in pre-season. Do I think a 4-12 season is possible? Sure. But we already are building for the future (possibly 7 picks on the first two days next year) and still have enough talent to have a surprise contending team. Remember how terrible the Dolphins were supposed to be last year? Let's not be so definitive that there's zero chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) I'm not trying to get into the tanking, not tanking conversation. No team is going to say they are tanking or in a complete rebuild when their are tickets to sell and players to keep happy. The Browns and Jets did it, but I think the fans wanted it too. Here's my concern. I believe that there's a natural transition whenever you get a new head coach. Nothing against the coach, but a new scheme just takes time for players to feel comfortable in and some players simply don't adapt. Look at our current DB's and LB's. We've pretty much turned them all over, not because they weren't good, but because they just don't fit. That's point #1. Point #2 is that we have the 4th hardest schedule. Yes, that changes from season to season, but I don't see it changing enough where we are given any favors. Point #3. Rookies are rare to contribute enough to where they are difference makers. Best case scenario is a solid contributor in their first 2 years. Put those 3 points together and I just don't see us making a playoff push this year or maybe even next. It's not that I'm a pessimist or disagree with what the team is doing. I would hold these standards to any team. I actually believe that we will get more production out of Matthews than Watkins. I agree that our defense will be better next year. But our offense line scares me and our no-name DB's/LB's scare me too. I just think it's too much against us. So with that, besides cap tragedies like Dareus, is there anyone that shouldn't be traded if we can't get value? Should anyone really be off limits? If the plan is to have a cap healthy team, with good young talent, where in 2 years when the Brady Era is done, is that a bad thing? While I hate the idea of 2 more years of non-playoffs, I think about the run we could go on from there. Again, I'm torn. Bills fans would all love it, is if when the season started, there was a magical transformation of Tyrod Taylor into a franchise QB, and the offense was looking top five, and the defense was looking top five. We've seen two years of Taylor and the chances of that happening are so small. Maybe there's a good chance the defense comes back to top 10. IMO looking realistically at their schedule, the Bill start off 0-3 (Pats 2x, Falcons) vs the schedule. That leaves them needing to win 10-3 to have a high probability of getting to the playoffs. That's just not going to happen even once out of ten times. So it comes down to the 2018 draft. It's just one of those transitional/building years that this team and it's fans have to go through. IMO, you always need to have that hope that something great could happen, but realize the situation and have reasonable expectations of what this season will be like. Edited August 19, 2017 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills fan since 87 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I never want to see the team tank aka quit. Agreed. There are too few football games to enjoy a season to have to deal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I'm just leary of building for the future plans. There is no guarantee it will work out. Given this franchise it's likely not to with our luck. I know it's a new staff and they deserve a chance but man as we all know it's rough having to hope things are better next year. Or the next.....I don't believe we were a playoff team this year but I had an inkling of hope. Post trades and the performance in Philly (I know, preseason) have left me feeling deflated and as if the rug was pulled out from under this season in what is usually the most exciting time of year for me. The future is never cetain. In 1519, the Aztec empire was ruled by the Montezuma, a widely aggressive and angry king, who spent years attempting to broaden his empire by use of his people through war and personal sacrifice. Then, in late August, the Spanish Conquistador Cortes marched on the city with great military power. After diplomatic relations failed, the citizens eventually turned on Montezuma, many viewing Cortes as a savior, or God. For approximately two years the Aztec people were subject to religious persecution and war against the very man they originally viewed as the savior. In 1521, the city was ransacked and nearly destroyed. Rex was Montezuma. We are the Aztecs. McBean are the conquistadors. Although it looks good at face value, I am very hesitant to praise any move until they can prove some worth in the eyes of the fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcoam Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) I'm torn too, about whether our Buffalo Bills really need to have our entire secondary and wide receiver corp blown up Or is it just something all rookie HC and GM do, the majority of the time which is unsuccessful Because the transition to all new starting players takes too much time The bottom line will be the final 2017 W-L record If we win 9 games plus fans will hail our rookie mgmt as genius poised to become perennial playoff teams If we win 7-8 games fans will say look 2017 was a transition year, give these guys time And if we win 6 games or less the knives will be out because clearly all their moves didn't work out for 2017 It just has to play itself out jc Edited August 19, 2017 by wilcoam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I've been watching the NFL for over 50 years and I've learned that you cannot make ANY predictions on the season based on preseason. These guys no that the games don't count and many simply don't want to get injured. Then factor in the lack of game planning and tendency to not 'show' anything that can be used on film and you can pretty much chalk all of preseason to a total waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 I've been watching the NFL for over 50 years and I've learned that you cannot make ANY predictions on the season based on preseason. These guys no that the games don't count and many simply don't want to get injured. Then factor in the lack of game planning and tendency to not 'show' anything that can be used on film and you can pretty much chalk all of preseason to a total waste of time. This isn't about the preseason to me. Unless they can get 9-10 wins, I think I'd hope for 4 wins instead of 5-8. I don't want to root for them to lose, but the high picks just mean more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 tank with honor (whatever that means). that means go to Peterman week 5 after TT struggles, and basically lose out with a couple token home wins against teams with bad QBs. This vet part of the roster is pretty much shot (TT, Clay, Dareus didnt' work out/overpaid, Kyle is done, Glenn is ??, Wood is done). time to reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Nothing to be torn about. We aren't a good team. Did you watch any of those preseason games and say wow we are going to beat Brady and the Pats? The smart thing to do is build for the future and maybe in 2-3 years we are ready The Pats didn't look good versus the Jags in the preseason game I watched. Does that mean anything? The Bills aren't a playoff team right now but they will be better than what they are showing now, I promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Nothing to be torn about. We aren't a good team. Did you watch any of those preseason games and say wow we are going to beat Brady and the Pats? The smart thing to do is build for the future and maybe in 2-3 years we are ready I hate all that 2-3 years talk. In two to three years will have to likely replace for age or contract reasons, Dareus, Hughes, Kyle, Shady, Cordy, Wood, Richie, Clay and still upgrade several other positions. Then again a real franchise quarterback might be able to offset some of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 What does Tom have to do with the upcoming season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills fan since 87 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 In 1519, the Aztec empire was ruled by the Montezuma, a widely aggressive and angry king, who spent years attempting to broaden his empire by use of his people through war and personal sacrifice. Then, in late August, the Spanish Conquistador Cortes marched on the city with great military power. After diplomatic relations failed, the citizens eventually turned on Montezuma, many viewing Cortes as a savior, or God. For approximately two years the Aztec people were subject to religious persecution and war against the very man they originally viewed as the savior. In 1521, the city was ransacked and nearly destroyed. Rex was Montezuma. We are the Aztecs. McBean are the conquistadors. Although it looks good at face value, I am very hesitant to praise any move until they can prove some worth in the eyes of the fan base. Wow. This analogy is the best thing I'll read all day. Straight gold!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 If this team is well coached and we get lucky with injuries we can be a playoff team. If this is a great coaching staff we will be good Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 The usual 6 wins of two decades, would be nice to get a few more. Don't worry about an early payment toward home playoff tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Nothing to be torn about. We aren't a good team. Did you watch any of those preseason games and say wow we are going to beat Brady and the Pats? The smart thing to do is build for the future and maybe in 2-3 years we are ready Agree...we will always have a top 10 toughest schedule until B&B retire. I want the incessive coaching/ scheme changes to stop. Give McBeane at least 4 full years to build there strategy. Stick with the 4-3 forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 The question is whether or not I can commit to a full rebuild and care about this season as much. I don't believe tanking exists when you play for non-guaranteed contracts. But as a fan, do you ultimately hope for only 3-4 wins for the draft picks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 If this team is well coached and we get lucky with injuries we can be a playoff team. If this is a great coaching staff we will be good Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Right. Im jus over here hoping the offense is watchable this season. I would hate to work Sundays bc my #1 team isnt worth sacrificing a payday anymore. We were exciting the last 2 years. Our offense could score any minute with a huge play. This new scheme isnt built like that. Wen we kept the score close we usuaoly lost. Wen we ran the score up we usually won. This offense is designed to be methodical and keep the score close, hope it doesnt backfire on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 What does Tom have to do with the upcoming season? Tom who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN_NYC Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 All i do is read posts and sometimes add a post of my own. But i HAVE come to one conclusion with multiple factors and that is, some of you guys just need to relax. I don't know if it's my age, the fact that i stay in good shape, that i eat right, or, the fact that I'm a religious person. But what i DO know is that I'm calm. I'm enjoying the "preseason" for what it is people. A freakin exhibition game. Now if it's week 4 in the regular season and we have a record like 1-3, then I would understand these posts of disappointment and the likes of. Heck I'll be upset also. We all wait 7 months after the SuperBowl to watch a meaningful NFL game of the team we root for so we expect to see some good football. But these games don't count people. We used to have intellegent posters that would break down game film like how an NFL coach would and would make you see where the good and the bad is on the team. These days however its just, trade tgis person or that person, tank this and tank that and now OP is "torn" in the preseason. Come on man. Just relax and enjoy the last bit of summer we have left and save the frustration for the regular season (if tge team should do bad of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 The question is whether or not I can commit to a full rebuild and care about this season as much. I don't believe tanking exists when you play for non-guaranteed contracts. But as a fan, do you ultimately hope for only 3-4 wins for the draft picks? I am against tanking, i want a decent football team that can hang in games. Not sure mcbeane built this roster for short term success with getting rid of watkins and giving us 3 starting slot WRs and not upgrading the OLine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I never want to see the team tank aka quit. Tanking is not quitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 The question is whether or not I can commit to a full rebuild and care about this season as much. I don't believe tanking exists when you play for non-guaranteed contracts. But as a fan, do you ultimately hope for only 3-4 wins for the draft picks? We all volunteer our time to post on a Bills forum. Idk how much control you have in the "care as much" department. The way I see it, I am all in every season with the only difference being tempered expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I hate all that 2-3 years talk. In two to three years will have to likely replace for age or contract reasons, Dareus, Hughes, Kyle, Shady, Cordy, Wood, Richie, Clay and still upgrade several other positions. Then again a real franchise quarterback might be able to offset some of that. This is why Buffalo needed the 6 picks in the first 3 rds. The best players on this team are on their second or third contracts. That nucleous of players have not accounted for any degree of sustained success. If Matthews can get on the feild soon I feel Buffalo is improved on all phases of the game compared to last year. You can argue that last years team was more talented but where wildly inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Nothing to get torn about. We go balls out and try to win this thing. Saying we have a tough schedule and we can't compete so why even try is for sissies. Fuggedabout it. Enough with the losing. Guys need to learn how to win especially the close games. Losing on purpose or not giving 100% to win is for losers. Go BILLS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonbus23 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 In 1519, the Aztec empire was ruled by the Montezuma, a widely aggressive and angry king, who spent years attempting to broaden his empire by use of his people through war and personal sacrifice. Then, in late August, the Spanish Conquistador Cortes marched on the city with great military power. After diplomatic relations failed, the citizens eventually turned on Montezuma, many viewing Cortes as a savior, or God. For approximately two years the Aztec people were subject to religious persecution and war against the very man they originally viewed as the savior. In 1521, the city was ransacked and nearly destroyed. Rex was Montezuma. We are the Aztecs. McBean are the conquistadors. Although it looks good at face value, I am very hesitant to praise any move until they can prove some worth in the eyes of the fan base. Impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan60 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 In 1519, the Aztec empire was ruled by the Montezuma, a widely aggressive and angry king, who spent years attempting to broaden his empire by use of his people through war and personal sacrifice. Then, in late August, the Spanish Conquistador Cortes marched on the city with great military power. After diplomatic relations failed, the citizens eventually turned on Montezuma, many viewing Cortes as a savior, or God. For approximately two years the Aztec people were subject to religious persecution and war against the very man they originally viewed as the savior. In 1521, the city was ransacked and nearly destroyed. Rex was Montezuma. We are the Aztecs. McBean are the conquistadors. Although it looks good at face value, I am very hesitant to praise any move until they can prove some worth in the eyes of the fan base. What about cortes? Wish I was smarter so I understood metaphor (or is it a simile). Where does Pegs fit in? Did I see something about McBeath (or was it Yorick). You old timers is just too smart for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) Nothing to get torn about. We go balls out and try to win this thing. Saying we have a tough schedule and we can't compete so why even try is for sissies. Fuggedabout it. Enough with the losing. Guys need to learn how to win especially the close games. Losing on purpose or not giving 100% to win is for losers. Go BILLS !!! Peterman knows how to win...the game against Clemson and his mentality in the two minute drill is all you need to know...Taylor has a hard time moving the chains at the end of regulations...good QBs lead their teams to point in the final minutes. I kinda understand where the OP is coming from...it is hard for me to get behind Tyrod because I don't believe in him...now, if it was Peterman, I could get excited about the season because, while mostly an unknown, he appears to have abilities that give him a higher ceiling than Tyrod, and that alone, gives me hope...I have no hope with Tyrod. Edited August 20, 2017 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Take two steps back now to take 3 steps forward later. I will respect this new staff more if that's the plan, it's a real plan. Draft this team a franchise worthy QB, enough of the other team backup garbage over and over again. The Chan/Rex plan of trying to win now with what this team has is a certain death that will end the same as the last few, fired within 3 years and a continuation of the longest loser streak in sports. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I don't follow. Why do we have to suck to draft a QB? Why do we need to trade young, talented players to draft a QB? Can't we win now AND STILL draft a QB? Sortve like the team we traded down with in the draft who DRAFTED A QB. Not everything needs to be done in extremes. But the losing has made Bills fans desperate... And a little stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Tanking is not quitting. No, but it means losing for a few more years...not easy to come back quickly from 2-14 or 4-12 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 All i do is read posts and sometimes add a post of my own. But i HAVE come to one conclusion with multiple factors and that is, some of you guys just need to relax. I don't know if it's my age, the fact that i stay in good shape, that i eat right, or, the fact that I'm a religious person. But what i DO know is that I'm calm. I'm enjoying the "preseason" for what it is people. A freakin exhibition game. Now if it's week 4 in the regular season and we have a record like 1-3, then I would understand these posts of disappointment and the likes of. Heck I'll be upset also. We all wait 7 months after the SuperBowl to watch a meaningful NFL game of the team we root for so we expect to see some good football. But these games don't count people. We used to have intellegent posters that would break down game film like how an NFL coach would and would make you see where the good and the bad is on the team. These days however its just, trade tgis person or that person, tank this and tank that and now OP is "torn" in the preseason. Come on man. Just relax and enjoy the last bit of summer we have left and save the frustration for the regular season (if tge team should do bad of course). Really, I see tons condescending posts to this same exact point every year. Hell, I used to be the optimist and post things like this too. Telling people to be positive or to just expect them to be good because.... reasons. But experience has taught me something.... The Bills suck in preseason, and suck in the regular season too. I wouldn't say I'm frustrated or angry about it, but it is clear and obvious this will n9t be a good team. It's great to be positive and stuff, but history is a pretty good predictor of the past, and not this demi-religious type of blind "faith" that they will be better in the regular season. Nothing has indicated that. Now, they might be OK, but there is an awful lot more evidence to the contrary. Then again evidence must not matter much to a religious person (that's not a shot at you, just an observation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 This isn't about the preseason to me. Unless they can get 9-10 wins, I think I'd hope for 4 wins instead of 5-8. I don't want to root for them to lose, but the high picks just mean more I haven't looked at 5-8 win seasons, but since 2002 69 teams have gone 4-12 or worse. of those teams: 13 went 4-12 or worse the next season (18.8%) 47 had a 0.500 record or worse the next season (68.1%) 22 had a winning record the next season (31.9%) 15 had a winning record and made the playoffs the next season (21.7%) 1 team made the playoff going 8-8 the next season The most likely result to us going 4-12 or worse is that the next year we will be back to going 7-9... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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