Coach Tuesday Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I love the trade. Stockholm Syndrom 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNubbins Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I'll say yes. At first I was like what the hell, and I'm still a little bummed about this season. It could pay off in the future.As it goes with the Bills, there's always next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse Nuts Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I'm still stunned but it's a good move all around. It's basically a bet on Sammy's foot or any other ailment that might pop up. Let's face it - he's been pretty fragile in a Bills uniform. If you're going with his proven track record then you can only count on him for maybe 10-12 games this season without even knowing what the docs are saying to the FO. That's quite a load of draft picks now for a supposedly QB- rich draft. Clearly indicates this FO is looking at all of them hard and more. Clearly a refreshing change from the "hope a franchise QB lands in our laps" philosophy of the last 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Turtle Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I will bet anyone here my entire yearly salary that the Bills will not lose any more games in 2017 because of these trades....any takers? I will one up my own bet: I guarantee the Buffalo Bills will lose no more than 16 games this year. I'd bet your life on it. Takers? How about next year, when they get their franchise QB and he has nobody to throw to, except Zay Jones? And when the Bills secondary looks like Carolina's secondary from last season without Josh Norman? Watkins, as injury prone as he is, would have given a rookie QB a true #1 WR from day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I can't make the trades make any sense. We traded a #1 WR for a guy who is a #3 at best. We traded a #1 or #2 CB for a guy who just had the 5th worse CB season of the past decade. In return, we got a 2nd and a 3rd. Success rates for 2nd and 3rd round picks are significantly lower than 50%. If we keep the picks, the most likely outcome is that we will not get talent anywhere near the talent we traded away. If we trade everything to get a QB, that QB is then setup to fail with a 30 year old McCoy and our only WR is Zay Jones. Both of these are worse than keeping our talent and having the option to franchise Sammy after the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watching since 1964 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I hear what people are saying about Bflo not picking up the 5th year option. However, it would have much riskier for teams trading for him, being obligated to the 5th year when his health is still a big question mark. This way the Rams have a lot more flexibility. They can evaluate if his health and performance warrant a long term deal. Or, at the minimum, they could still franchise tag him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 YES, YES, and YES in case the first two are missed. Watkins, often hurt, under contract year, OUT. Matthews, rarely hurt, under contract year, IN. Darby, inconsistent and not dominant, OUT. Gaines, a solid veteran yet who is often hurt, IN. The Gaines trade is a gamble, but we got the Rams's second round pick. Looking at the count, it goes like this: 1st, Bills 1st, Chiefs 2nd, Rams (HIGH PICK) 2nd, Bills 3rd, Bills 3rd, Eagles (MID RANGE PICK) That Rams pick could very well be like having a low round 1st round pick. THREE high picks in the top 40 is an excellent way for Beane to show us what he's got. I am EXTREMELY EXCITED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Let's go on record as to our feelings on the deals today. There are no bs in between answers either. It is a yes or a no. If you were the GM and had the exact same deals on the table would you have made the moves? We are not seperating them out either because they are tied together. I think both the offense and defense got worse today in order to benefit next year. I don't know why we have Tyrod, Kyle, and a few others in this roster to help 2017 if 2018 and beyond is the push and they won't be a part of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Turtle Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I can't make the trades make any sense. We traded a #1 WR for a guy who is a #3 at best. We traded a #1 or #2 CB for a guy who just had the 5th worse CB season of the past decade. In return, we got a 2nd and a 3rd. Success rates for 2nd and 3rd round picks are significantly lower than 50%. If we keep the picks, the most likely outcome is that we will not get talent anywhere near the talent we traded away. If we trade everything to get a QB, that QB is then setup to fail with a 30 year old McCoy and our only WR is Zay Jones. Both of these are worse than keeping our talent and having the option to franchise Sammy after the year. I would add that they already had the assets to trade up into the top 5 before the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Like it Trade away starting WR, CB, 6th round 2018 Returned starting WR, CB, 2nd round, 3rd round 2018 Play on the field is equal imo. Good haul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Would have done the Darby trade but not the Sammy trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Like it Trade away starting WR, CB, 6th round 2018 Returned starting WR, CB, 2nd round, 3rd round 2018 Play on the field is equal imo. Good haul Matthews is equal to Watkins? A healthy Watkins can be a star in this league. Not Matthews. Would have done the Darby trade but not the Sammy trade. me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Update on the Greatest WR class of all times.... 3 of them have been traded. Allen Robinson is apparently trash. And Landry's 5th year option not picked up. I have no idea what this means. Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 These moves are only good if they help us get a franchise QB. If we end up taking more DBs and WRs just to replace these guys then it's a failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Turtle Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Like it Trade away starting WR, CB, 6th round 2018 Returned starting WR, CB, 2nd round, 3rd round 2018 Play on the field is equal imo. Good haul Mathews, Boldin, and Jones are all slot receivers. The Bills lack outside receivers. Watkins was a top-tier downfield threat. Despite the numbers, Matthews and Watkins are not equal. Especially since Matthews gained a large percentage of his yards in Chip Kelly's offense, which is nothing like the offense the Bills will run. And with Brady still going strong, and the Patriots adding to their WR Corp, the Bills should not be trading starting caliber DBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Interesting results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 If Matthews produces and we can resign him, it's a solid move. If he produces and leaves, as Sammy would have, it's a gimme. Darby really fell off last season and wasn't showing much in camp. Something is going on. Good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Im no bills apologist... but im on board. With where i view this team, any move made for the future is great. This franchise hasnt given attention to the future in a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Buffalo News SportsVerified account @TBNSports 23m23 minutes ago More Bills trades distance team from Doug Whaley, pivot roster squarely in Brandon Beane's direction. @bytimgraham: http://bit.ly/2hSM6lJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I think both the offense and defense got worse today in order to benefit next year. I don't know why we have Tyrod, Kyle, and a few others in this roster to help 2017 if 2018 and beyond is the push and they won't be a part of it I believe Beane when he says we aren't throwing in the towel with these moves. Tyrod (regardless of anyone's thoughts on him) and Kyle are two leaders in the locker room. I would wager that our success in 2017 was tied more to Tyrod than Sammy, and without guarantees as to what QB we get next year they have to keep a known commodity in Tyrod just in case all else fails regarding the draft next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 then the trade was necessary, but then the question is, Is it the right decision to move on from him after this season. I say no. We'll see. I don't see how Sammy would've stayed a Bill much longer. The team declining his option was the writing on the wall. I'd have picked it up unless the doctors were telling me some bad things. That'd have bought another season to see if he could get and stay healthy. I thought it was worth the risk, but McD obviously didn't. After this season the options were: - Letting him walk for a possible comp pick if we qualified. - Signing him to a new contract. We'd have to outbid the league and I don't see that happening. If he had injury issues and couldn't demand a large deal, then he'd likely go to a team with an elite QB on a short term deal. - Franchise tag him. That's the only real possibility. He'd have to stay healthy and have a stellar season. A long term deal would mean a top 5 WR contract and that's tough to sell me on due to his injury history Or we'd have him for that year under the tag. Or possibly trade him at that point. If his foot breaks again this season or he's on IR for any other reason everyone will be singing the praises of Beane and McD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottaRun Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 McCoy once called Watkins a Ferrari in the garage. He didn't mean it the way it turned out, but that's what Watkins has been, a Ferrari in the garage - constantly needing repairs. I wasn't jumping up and down when I found out about this trade, but I'm okay with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I certainly remember Sammy dropping a few critical passes in game winning drives. Then you'll love Matthews who is slower and less talented! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 From a value standpoint its sinking in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I believe Beane when he says we aren't throwing in the towel with these moves. Tyrod (regardless of anyone's thoughts on him) and Kyle are two leaders in the locker room. I would wager that our success in 2017 was tied more to Tyrod than Sammy, and without guarantees as to what QB we get next year they have to keep a known commodity in Tyrod just in case all else fails regarding the draft next year. Are we a better roster today than yesterday, ignoring the resources added next year? When you are at best a fringe wild card team and you make your roster worse on both sides of the ball you are throwing in the towel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albwan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 FINALLY ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Both trades were awful They traded a possibly great player for a small, ineffective corner and a #2. Then they traded away a decent corner who they will replace with a very high draft choice. They are spinning in circles and its ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Both trades were awful They traded a possibly great player for a small, ineffective corner and a #2. Then they traded away a decent corner who they will replace with a very high draft choice. They are spinning in circles and its ugly. I thought getting a corner would have made you happy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) Both trades were awful They traded a possibly great player for a small, ineffective corner and a #2. Then they traded away a decent corner who they will replace with a very high draft choice. They are spinning in circles and its ugly. The problem is D Whaley made the cost of Watkins to high for the position. Edited August 12, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 The problem is D Whaley made the cost of Watkins to high for the position. But that doesn't matter now. I wonder if we took a poll before this trade, how many people even knew who EJ Gaines was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I thought getting a corner would have made you happy!!! I know you are breaking my shoes but getting a corner MIGHT have made me happy if he was any good AND they didn't trade one away. This virtually guarantees another 1st or second round corner. And CB, Shady isn't getting younger. Is there another 1st round RB on the horizon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Are we a better roster today than yesterday, ignoring the resources added next year? When you are at best a fringe wild card team and you make your roster worse on both sides of the ball you are throwing in the towel I think "throwing in the towel" is a complete mischaracterization of what transpired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I know you are breaking my shoes but getting a corner MIGHT have made me happy if he was any good AND they didn't trade one away. This virtually guarantees another 1st or second round corner. And CB, Shady isn't getting younger. Is there another 1st round RB on the horizon? I'm right with you. I hate this. It's the typical spin your wheels Buffalo Bills move. Look for us to draft another high next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 decent corner . Common Bill. We all know there is no such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I've come to terms with it, it makes sense long term but i really love Sammy. Same here. I still have concerns over the foot though...trying to look at the positives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I think "throwing in the towel" is a complete mischaracterization of what transpired. It is an exact description of what they did wrt 2017. It is borderline criminal to steal season ticket holders money like they did today. There is simply no way to claim we are better in 2017. 2018 and beyond can be argued I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) But that doesn't matter now. I wonder if we took a poll before this trade, how many people even knew who EJ Gaines was? It matters when your trying to build a team The high salary Sammy is going to demand in the grand scheme of things is to much IMO. Edited August 12, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsgoodtime Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Then you'll love Matthews who is slower and less talented! And drops a lot of passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsmystic Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 These are moneyball moves- Let's say Matthews is 85% of the productivity of Watkins at 60% of the cost, plus a second rounder and Gaines is 85% of Darby at 75% of the cost, plus a third rounder That's all this is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I think "throwing in the towel" is a complete mischaracterization of what transpired. It's a bit strong for my taste but when you are already likely on the outside looking in-- getting worse at passing and stopping the pass in the 2017 NFL is basically giving up the playoffs without crazy luck. That we are leaving ourselves outside the race without actually throwing in the towel should actually upset you more, probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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