Vic C's BN piece--really rips Rex as defensive coach

[Augie]

Except he didn't trash talk Rex. Schwartz declined to be interviewed.There seems to be some confusion, did he quit, or was he fired? If the Bills are still paying him, he was fired.

I, personally, make arrangements to be fired for a 7 figure check. And yes, I'll agree to to do any name calling. Let the future results speak for themselves. Now, let's see if Schwartz can replicate what he did with us to get the sweet new deal....

[K-9]

Except he didn't trash talk Rex. Schwartz declined to be interviewed.

There seems to be some confusion, did he quit, or was he fired? If the Bills are still paying him, he was fired.

They interviewed Schwartz early on in the process; sometime in the first week of January last year and before they interviewed Rex. Schwartz made it clear that he was only going to return if he was hired for the job. Again, BEFORE Rex Ryan was even in the picture.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Doc]

They interviewed Schwartz early on in the process; sometime in the first week of January last year and before they interviewed Rex. Schwartz made it clear that he was only going to return if he was hired for the job. Again, BEFORE Rex Ryan was even in the picture.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think the "Schwartz declined to be interviewed" was in reference to the BN article. As for making it clear that he would only return if he was hired as the HC, I didn't hear that at the time, but as I mentioned above, that's what I figured.

[K-9]

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think the "Schwartz declined to be interviewed" was in reference to the BN article. As for making it clear that he would only return if he was hired as the HC, I didn't hear that at the time, but as I mentioned above, that's what I figured.

Ah, I misinterpreted the context. Thanks for the clarification.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Freddie's Dead]

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think the "Schwartz declined to be interviewed" was in reference to the BN article. As for making it clear that he would only return if he was hired as the HC, I didn't hear that at the time, but as I mentioned above, that's what I figured.

Bimbo (and fixed above).

Edited February 15, 2016 by Freddie's Dead

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Great article and a great read. Thanks for posting.

 

I think the Rex Ryan hire was pushed on the new owners by the status quo and then they preached continuity again for this year. Yea, continuity for a classless loudmouth full of broken promises whose teams lacked discipline and didn't allow for the best use of the talent on the roster.

 

I only hope that one day these new owners wake up and realize the only way to beat a great team, great QB in New England is to hire a great football man at the top for Buffalo. Then he will hire a great head coach who will be someone with enough football acumen to know NFL talent when he sees it. If the talent isn't already on the roster than Rex Ryan isn't going to coach up anything ie Quinton Coples. (Aaron Maybin again) In essence the Bills hired another Jauron who only knows how to run his lame, outdated scheme.

 

Chuck Knox came into Buffalo with a winning record from the Rams and brought with him a great talent evaluator in Norm Pollom who would up as Buffalos vice president of player personnel, and he hired Bill Polian!!

 

Another great read in this story. http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/11/18/polians-start-with-bills-was-discreet/

 

This paying outrageous sums of money to free agents because you can't find the talent in the draft is clearly the wrong way to do things. 100 million to Mario didn't get the Bills in the playoffs and neither did playing similar sums to Dareus and Hughes. Three draft picks and two of them first round picks when the team doesn't have an established franchise QB on the roster to throw to him was another lame call. Then because the team lacks football acumen at the top of the flow chart they hired a bad head coach with a 4-12 record and then got exactly what they hired in a man who made the team / defense worse.

 

This team is in dire need of another Chuck Knox who won despite having a not so good people above him.

 

Maybe Pete Carroll gets whacked if they do bad.

[BackInDaDay]

john and yoko should stick to poisoning the planet, and hire a football man to run their team

[ALF]

''A typical call in Ryan’s defense might go something like this: “46 Nickel Delta Weak Double Dog Trade.” The same call in Schwartz’s scheme would simply be, “Delta.”

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/13/bills-pairing-of-rex-ryan-jim-schwartz-never-stood-a-chance/

With so much crowd noise at the Ralph when the Bills D is trying to call complex plays at the last second, disaster

The opposing offense just has to run a hurry up pace to counter a Rex D

[Bad Things]

This is a bit silly... of course Schwartz wasn't going to stick around once Rex was hired.

 

(Too bad though... his defence was awesome.)

[Buffalo_Stampede]

 

 

Facts are they didn't get sacks and the D regressed. Hopefully it was a fluke.

 

No one knows what happens to a Schwartz defense without Kyle Williams and Aaron Williams. No Spikes. Then losing Bradham and Gilmore for the final quarter of the season.

 

Schwartz has had good and bad D's. No one knows

Edited February 15, 2016 by TheTruthHurts

[GunnerBill]

No one knows what happens to a Schwartz defense without Kyle Williams and Aaron Williams. No Spikes. Then losing Bradham and Gilmore for the final quarter of the season.

 

Schwartz has had good and bad D's. No one knows

 

Exactly. Nobody knows. The pro-Rex lobby have convinced themselves things would have got much worse under Schwartz regardless in 2015. It is pure supposition. I don't like speculation on hypotheticals that can never be proven either way.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It is silly to think the Pegulas, Russ, Whaley, or anybody at One Bills Drive ever thought Rex/Schwartz could work. The statements made about retaining Schwartz was PR mumbo, nothing more. If it wasn't I have larger concerns about our front office and it's ability to judge situations and understand the game. Why the delay? People prioritize tasks in new roles. Letting go a coach was not a priority. It was something he had to deal with and when he had some time after his initial tasks that's exactly what he did.

 

Kzoo, this I don't understand. In what way could a FO guy tweeting about wanting to retain Schwartz, if they actually thought/knew he was gone, be considered PR?

 

It simply makes the FO look out of the loop or out of touch and once he's gone, like what they say can't be relied upon. If it's PR, it would fall into the class of "if it weren't for bad PR we'd have no PR at all".

 

People do prioritize tasks in new roles, but someone who prioritizes so much ahead of a few minute phone call or visit while new people are moving into the guys office, that's classless at best. I'd call it misplaced priorities. If you're managing people, you have to show that people are important to you and follow the Golden Rule in your priorities.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Hopeful

[Monday Morning Warrior]

it's fairly deeply reported too. For those who think it's a good piece (as I do), remember it the next time you think about writing that everyone at the BN sucks except for Tyler Dunne ...

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/13/bills-pairing-of-rex-ryan-jim-schwartz-never-stood-a-chance/

This says it all...

Actually, the Bills were in the bottom 10 in four of 12 key statistical categories in 2015: third-down efficiency (23rd), yards per play (24th), rushing yards per attempt (25th), and sacks per pass play (31st).

This guy has been living off some BS for years...he is NOT a HC...,

Clueless, egomaniac and just not the "genius" you all say...

I for one can't wait for this fiasco to run its course and to usher this jerk out of town with pitchforks and torches!!

Good bye Rex!

[BmarvB]

Did anyone here really believe Ryan was going to keep Schwartz based on his coaching history?

 

Nope. Not at all. Just didn't expect him to up the defense as badly as he did. And somehow, I have my doubts about it getting any better next year under Rex Rob and Dennis.

[Dr. K]

 

I agree, good piece.

 

The most intriguing thing to me is the description of the whiplash Schwartz got - that Bills FO officials were saying "we want Schwartz to stay" whilst Rex had Dennis Thurman moving his things into Schwartz office, all without having a discussion with Schwartz, then finally telling Schwartz he was terminated.

 

At face value, it sounds as though Rex (at best) misled the Pegulas and the Bills as to his intent for the defense then behaved like a tool to Schwartz while not communicating his intentions clearly.

At worst, it sounds as though he (at least verbally) committed to leaving the D intact and retaining Schwartz, then once his contract was signed and he was in the building, reneged.

 

Either way, that's a crap way to behave.

The Pegulas should have known when they hired Rex that, no matter what he said, he would want to change the defense and that Schwartz was instantly a lame duck. Hell, that was the very first thing I thought when I heard they were thinking of hiring Rex.

 

If the Pegulas truly thought they could hire Rex and have continuity on defense, they are incredibly naive.

[GG]

it's fairly deeply reported too. For those who think it's a good piece (as I do), remember it the next time you think about writing that everyone at the BN sucks except for Tyler Dunne ...

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/13/bills-pairing-of-rex-ryan-jim-schwartz-never-stood-a-chance/

 

Haven't gone through the full thread, but I don't think it's deeply reported. The only new piece of information is the off the record account from a former Marrone defensive assistant, who's very likely Henderson. But he really didn't say anything that hasn't been brought up over the year. Carucci also sloths off the fact that Schwartz's defenses have a very spotty record year after year. Finally, Vic is being disingenuous with his claim that Schwartz was given the run around by quoting a high ranking Bills source from January 2015. The story would have been much more powerful if the same front office source would have repeated the claim in January 2016.

[Doc]

Again, Vic's sources are suspect, to put it kindly.

[John from Riverside]

I honestly dont know....maybe Vic is right

 

 

I do know this......when it comes to the D....Schwartz and Rex eqals too many roosters in the hen house.......which different D philosophies......

 

and as I have said repeatedly.....this was the big part of Rex I did not like.....we took a step back (several steps actually) on D because the schemes are way different and did not cater to what our team did well

 

but

 

I also want to see if Rex can turn it around

[OP Class75]

By not hiring Schwartz as the head coach the owners made it clear that keeping him was secondary.

 

So is the consensus now that Rex Ryan can't coach defense? Really?

 

I trust Rex to fix the defense. A year ago every commentator said he knows defense but his problem is that his offenses stink. Now suddenly Rex Ryan forgot how to coach NFL defense.

Then you are a FOOL!!! I don't trust Rex Ryan as far as I could throw has fatA$$ brother!! RR is an arrogant blowhard with a proven track record as a looser. Rob maintains the twin consistency. While Schwartz was still available, I would have been strongly in favor in firing Rex, Hiring Schwartz as HC bringing back his defense, and keeping Roman as OC. The biggest mistake was hiring Ryan to begin with....A close second was keeping him on for 2016.

[GunnerBill]

 

Haven't gone through the full thread, but I don't think it's deeply reported. The only new piece of information is the off the record account from a former Marrone defensive assistant, who's very likely Henderson.

 

Henderson was a Rex Ryan guy before he was a Marrone guy they worked together on that Baltimore staff. If the source really is Donnie Henderson and the relationship has soured that fast it actually makes me more inclined to believe it because a year ago he and Rex were friends and colleagues who shared a mutual respect.

 

I don't know the story with Donnie. The official line is he wanted to be a co-ordinator again and was seeking opportunities but if he has really lost faith in Rex Ryan then it says a LOT about how disjointed last year was.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Henderson was a Rex Ryan guy before he was a Marrone guy they worked together on that Baltimore staff. If the source really is Donnie Henderson and the relationship has soured that fast it actually makes me more inclined to believe it because a year ago he and Rex were friends and colleagues who shared a mutual respect.

 

I don't know the story with Donnie. The official line is he wanted to be a co-ordinator again and was seeking opportunities but if he has really lost faith in Rex Ryan then it says a LOT about how disjointed last year was.

interstingly, still hasn't been hired by anyone. Surprising IMO. Edited February 15, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[GunnerBill]

interstingly, still hasn't been hired by anyone.

 

Yep. Very odd... so maybe the story is true and he genuinely wants a co-ordinator job (not sure he is going to get one any time soon) because as a DBs coach I'd hire him tomorrow.

[hondo in seattle]

Then you are a FOOL!!! I don't trust Rex Ryan as far as I could throw has fatA$$ brother!! RR is an arrogant blowhard with a proven track record as a looser. Rob maintains the twin consistency. While Schwartz was still available, I would have been strongly in favor in firing Rex, Hiring Schwartz as HC bringing back his defense, and keeping Roman as OC. The biggest mistake was hiring Ryan to begin with....A close second was keeping him on for 2016.

 

Do you really need to call a fellow Bills fan a "FOOL" because he has a different opinion than you?

 

I personally consider the Bills Nation a band of brothers held together by bonds of friendship forged by years of shared hopes and disappointments.

 

A differing opinion doesn't matter much among friends, especially since none of us are decision makers at OBD anyway.

Edited February 15, 2016 by hondo in seattle

[Malazan]

The article has some good information and I anxiously await next season's excuses from Rex, but I don't understand why only former Schwartz coaches were interviewed.

[Nihilarian]

 

Maybe Pete Carroll gets whacked if they do bad.

That will NEVER happen.

 

Carroll can draft a guy in the fifth round because he fits his prototype of size and speed and then coaches them up to fit his defense. Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor say hello.

 

If the talent isn't already there in the player Rex Ryan can't coach up anything or anyone. First round picks Quinten Couples, Dee Milner say hello. Oh wait, his proclivity for feet will say it was all the GM's fault

[dave mcbride]

 

Haven't gone through the full thread, but I don't think it's deeply reported. The only new piece of information is the off the record account from a former Marrone defensive assistant, who's very likely Henderson. But he really didn't say anything that hasn't been brought up over the year. Carucci also sloths off the fact that Schwartz's defenses have a very spotty record year after year. Finally, Vic is being disingenuous with his claim that Schwartz was given the run around by quoting a high ranking Bills source from January 2015. The story would have been much more powerful if the same front office source would have repeated the claim in January 2016.

Not just Henderson (allegedly). Also a "high ranking" Bills official -- who wrote something directly (and presumably) to a BN reporter (Vic?)) --as well as Keith Bullock and Jim Washburn. They added good context, which I liked. As for you supposition about Henderson, it makes sense. Check out this passage: '“It’s hard not to take offense when Rex gets up and says last year’s defense wasn’t good enough. ‘We’re going to be No. 1, I guarantee it!’ ” the former Bills defensive assistant said. “We went from top five in just about every category to bottom 10 in just about every category with pretty much the same team, and a better player” in rookie cornerback Ronald Darby.'

 

Who would know enough about how good Darby is relative to what he replaced (Leodis/Graham, both of whom are at least decent) to opine that way? And who would know enough to be able to compare how the two defenses were run? Only Henderson.

[Punching Bag]

john and yoko should stick to poisoning the planet, and hire a football man to run their team

john and yoki? Some racial joke?

 

Henderson was a Rex Ryan guy before he was a Marrone guy they worked together on that Baltimore staff. If the source really is Donnie Henderson and the relationship has soured that fast it actually makes me more inclined to believe it because a year ago he and Rex were friends and colleagues who shared a mutual respect.

 

I don't know the story with Donnie. The official line is he wanted to be a co-ordinator again and was seeking opportunities but if he has really lost faith in Rex Ryan then it says a LOT about how disjointed last year was.

It appears that Henderson was blamed for some of the communication issues which is why he was let go; no one complained about his ability to teach.

[GG]

Not just Henderson (allegedly). Also a "high ranking" Bills official -- who wrote something directly (and presumably) to a BN reporter (Vic?)) --as well as Keith Bullock and Jim Washburn. They added good context, which I liked. As for you supposition about Henderson, it makes sense. Check out this passage: '“It’s hard not to take offense when Rex gets up and says last year’s defense wasn’t good enough. ‘We’re going to be No. 1, I guarantee it!’ ” the former Bills defensive assistant said. “We went from top five in just about every category to bottom 10 in just about every category with pretty much the same team, and a better player” in rookie cornerback Ronald Darby.'

 

Who would know enough about how good Darby is relative to what he replaced (Leodis/Graham, both of whom are at least decent) to opine that way? And who would know enough to be able to compare how the two defenses were run? Only Henderson.

 

I'll jump on the pile that Vic is mailing it in more often than not. He thinks the Internet doesn't exist for fact checks. A bit dishonest to preset this as new news, wouldn't you say?

[dave mcbride]

 

I'll jump on the pile that Vic is mailing it in more often than not. He thinks the Internet doesn't exist for fact checks. A bit dishonest to preset this as new news, wouldn't you say?

Ha! A "Buffalo News reporter" indeed. Still, despite all of that, there was some good stuff in the piece, and if it was in fact Henderson who said that stuff, that's a good get.

 

Who knows about Vic. Maybe the 12 years working for Goodell's propaganda machine (nfl.com) twisted his mind. And covering the Browns for four years will make anyone assume the worst about pretty much anything.

Edited February 15, 2016 by dave mcbride

[YoloinOhio]

It actually sounds like it could have been Fred Pagac. He's not one to mince words. Henderson likely doesn't want to chance burning any bridges as he will want Rex's recommendation, being as he's unemployed and all. And I think it's fairly easy to see Darby is better than Leo.

 

Also, wasn't this the same coach quoted as thinking this year's D was bottom 10 in every category? I doubt it was a coach who actually took part in this season as he would actually know what the stats were.. and I doubt Henderson would say that, as he's in the process of trying to get a DC job and at the very least would not say the secondary was ranked low.

Edited February 15, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[hondo in seattle]

john and yoki? Some racial joke?

It appears that Henderson was blamed for some of the communication issues which is why he was let go; no one complained about his ability to teach.

 

During the same press conference that Rex announced the hiring of his brother, he also said this:

 

“Because we’ve got to be like this [Fingers interlocked]. For us to be at our best, we have to be like this. I think some of the moves I’ve made will allow me to bring it even closer."

 

Any chance this comment has something to do with Donnie Hendersen? Maybe going a little rogue as a coach and not wholeheartedly supporting the Rex program?

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/ryan-reasserts-control-of-bills-20160123

Edited February 15, 2016 by hondo in seattle

[The Big Cat]

I can't understand why Vic's article has summoned now-123 responses.

 

It tells us virtually nothing we didn't already know, and like many of his since-debunked gotcha moments, it comes entirely from anonymous sources.

 

CONCLUSION: people who signed up for this website will cling to any/all variables to justify their wanton desire for Rex Ryan to be thought of as a failure.

 

That's nice.

Edited February 15, 2016 by The Big Cat

[Malazan]

I can't understand why Vic's article has summoned now-123 responses.

 

It tells us virtually nothing we didn't already know, and like many of his since-debunked gotcha moments, it comes entirely from anonymous sources.

 

CONCLUSION: people who signed up for this website will cling to any/all variables to justify their wanton desire for Rex Ryan to be thought of as a failure.

 

That's nice.

 

I firmly believe Rex will end up as a failure here, but this article is ridiculous.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

john and yoko should stick to poisoning the planet, and hire a football man to run their team

 

You're usually quite funny

 

This one, Hmmmm, not so much

[YoloinOhio]

 

During the same press conference that Rex announced the hiring of his brother, he also said this:

 

Because weve got to be like this [Fingers interlocked]. For us to be at our best, we have to be like this. I think some of the moves Ive made will allow me to bring it even closer."

 

Any chance this comment has something to do with Donnie Hendersen? Maybe going a little rogue as a coach and not wholeheartedly supporting the Rex program?

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/ryan-reasserts-control-of-bills-20160123

sal Capaccio said something about Henderson and Thurman possibly having different philosophies in the secondary (and Thurman came up through the ranks as a DB coach). I don't know if he was just spitballing or if he has actual info on that. He said it a few different times. Since the Bills indicated Thurman and Reed would be working closely with the DBs, I'm guessing it might have some truth to it. Edited February 15, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[yungmack]

 

I firmly believe Rex will end up as a failure here, but this article is ridiculous.

Whatcha mean "will;" he already is.

[GunnerBill]

I can't understand why Vic's article has summoned now-123 responses.

 

It tells us virtually nothing we didn't already know, and like many of his since-debunked gotcha moments, it comes entirely from anonymous sources.

 

CONCLUSION: people who signed up for this website will cling to any/all variables to justify their wanton desire for Rex Ryan to be thought of as a failure.

 

That's nice.

 

Oh come off it Big Cat. Nobody here has a "desire" for Rex to be thought of as a failure. I want nothing more than all my worst fears about Rex Ryan to be completely obliterated in 2016. ALL and I really mean ALL I care about when it comes to the Bills is this team becoming a winner again in the way that the fans of this club deserve.

 

I want us to win so badly that even after expressing my doubts when he was hired I was "all in" last offseason. I am commenting purely on the product that was put on the field this past season and I have to tell you it wasn't good in my eyes. Do I wish it was different? Sure. Hell after 3 games I thought we were a certain play-off team - yeah we had lost to New England but who doesn't and we had battered the Colts and the Dolphins. Sadly those two teams were worse than expected and as a result gave us (or me at least) false hope.

 

I have watched this team for 13 years. I have seen us have 2 winning seasons... as was pointed out in a recent thread I don't even have the glory days some of you guys do to fall back on. I want the Bills to win so badly. Any criticism I make of Rex Ryan, or anyone else in the organisation from Terry Pegula to the last guy on the practice squad is based purely on what I see and feel and not on any "desire" for people to be thought of in one way or another.

[Peter]

I can't understand why Vic's article has summoned now-123 responses.

 

It tells us virtually nothing we didn't already know, and like many of his since-debunked gotcha moments, it comes entirely from anonymous sources.

 

CONCLUSION: people who signed up for this website will cling to any/all variables to justify their wanton desire for Rex Ryan to be thought of as a failure.

 

That's nice.

I agree.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Again, Vic's sources are suspect, to put it kindly.

I think his primary source is Mr. khaki pants (aka, the analytics department).

[DanInUticaTampa]

This is a good article. I think the problem people have with BN is that ever since the pegulas took control, a lot of the local reporters' sources became useless and have been giving just terrible info.

 

I don't question vic as a sport writer, guy is knowledgable, great talent, and knows the franchise well. but his sources are making him look like a fool.

 

With that said, there are so many questions here. If the pegulas wanted to keep the defense in place, then why would you hire a defensive coach with an opposing philosphy? wouldn't it make more sense to hire a HC with an offensive mindset or make swartz HC and have him hire his own OC? I just don't think that pegulas were that dead set on keeping swartz. I think they were until they interviewed ryan. Once they fell in love with him, they felt they wouldn't need swartz.

 

I know things don't look good, but I think the defense will turn itself around this season, even minus a mario williams if it comes to that. But even with me being optimisic and hopeful, Rex Ryan wasn't my first choice for HC. I still would have liked a hugh jackson as HC and keep swartz. Or maybe make swartz HC and have him bring in somoeone better for OC. I don't think Rex is a terrible hire, but there were better options out there.

 

Best thing I can say for ryan is he was Tyrod's biggest advocate, and that really made the biggest difference on offense.