Skins to sign K. Cousins 17mill yr. how much is TT worth

[BarleyNY]

...and it's fine to feel that way as long as we understand what waiting means. If you wait, you are probably talking about doing so at the expense of guys like Woods, Glenn, Bradham, possibly Gilmore. That extra $7M a year and $20M-$25M of guaranteed more that it will cost you is at the direct loss to certain guys. You have to weigh everything and cant simply say "it's been 7 games" and make that decision in a vacuum. If he starts the rest of the year at this level, the Bills will be trying desperately to extend him.

Extending him early will cost us too - and sooner. Plus we might not even see a good return on that if he flames out/fails to live up to his deal. No, I'll wait and pay him fair market if he hits. That's fine. Our choices are:

- Wait and possibly pay more, which will be market value

- Pay him above his market early in hopes that we will get a deal and save some money, but also take the chance we might be overpaying him substantially

 

I really do see your point, but I haven't seen enough and there is time. I wait and see what Taylor does. And here's the reason: What he hasn't proven he can do is the toughest part of being a quarterback. I really hope he makes it, but I'm skeptical.

[Punching Bag]

Agreed.

 

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that these numbers are being floated out there right after his recent quality performances, including the Saints game. He's got a smart agent.

 

 

Yes. Here is a link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tyrod-taylor/

 

80% of Snaps: $1M bonus

He lost 2 weeks of snaps (12,5^) of games but because EJ took a lot more snaps per game due to style of play/game TT has last more than 12% of snaps.

 

If he loses more snaps to injuries he could drop under 80% of snaps.

[The Jokeman]

 

80% of Snaps: $1M bonus

He lost 2 weeks of snaps (12,5^) of games but because EJ took a lot more snaps per game due to style of play/game TT has last more than 12% of snaps.

 

If he loses more snaps to injuries he could drop under 80% of snaps.

With Harvin likely gone we can afford to give Tyrod a small bump in salary yet it wouldn't shock me to see Whaley take a QB early in this draft if a guy like Cook happens to fall to us.

[Kirby Jackson]

Extending him early will cost us too - and sooner. Plus we might not even see a good return on that if he flames out/fails to live up to his deal. No, I'll wait and pay him fair market if he hits. That's fine. Our choices are:

- Wait and possibly pay more, which will be market value

- Pay him above his market early in hopes that we will get a deal and save some money, but also take the chance we might be overpaying him substantially

 

I really do see your point, but I haven't seen enough and there is time. I wait and see what Taylor does. And here's the reason: What he hasn't proven he can do is the toughest part of being a quarterback. I really hope he makes it, but I'm skeptical.

That's more than fair. I was trying trying to hedge (not to you) but to those that will be mad if the Bills offer $15M, mad if he then costs $20M, and mad if we lose guys. We can't have everything but there will be people here that will want that. You have taken a stance and it's totally reasonable. Edited November 19, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[JohnC]

 

 

But they are not the Quarterbacks that specifically came to mind watching those two games back to back this evening..... it was someone we all know much better than them. It was Ryan Fitzpatrick. And to me that is what Kirk Cousins is at this moment in time. He is the best backup in the league or the last starting Quarterback you can be at least efficient with. Is there room for growth? Possibly. Do I see anything there to convince me there is enough potential to sink $17m a year in him? No I don't and if I worked for the Redskins Pro-Personnel Department I would be making this point day after day after day.

If Cousins plays well enough in his remaining games this season that will interest other teams to offer him a good contract then where does it leave the Skins at the qb position? RGIII is going to be dispatched after this season. McCoy is the backup and he is less than mediocre as a backup. Would the Skins prefer taking a qb prospect and count on him to move the rebuilding team forward? I really don't think so.

 

As I stated in the prior post the current HC likes Cousins and wants to work with him. The GM who was involved with the 49ers and Seahawks believes in building the roster in order to enhance the prospects for its starting qb.

 

If Cousins steadily improves as the season advances he will be an intriguing target for other qb starved teams. He certainly will not be an elite qb in this league but I believe that he can be a credible starter. That in itself is a major leap forward for a team that has lacked direction and has not moved forward for a very long time.

 

The GM and staff of the Skins have to make a decision at where they are at and not on where they wish they were at. I contend that they are going to move forward with Cousins. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Starting QBs get a lot of money, But all that matters are guarantees.

[GunnerBill]

If Cousins plays well enough in his remaining games this season that will interest other teams to offer him a good contract then where does it leave the Skins at the qb position? RGIII is going to be dispatched after this season. McCoy is the backup and he is less than mediocre as a backup. Would the Skins prefer taking a qb prospect and count on him to move the rebuilding team forward? I really don't think so.

 

As I stated in the prior post the current HC likes Cousins and wants to work with him. The GM who was involved with the 49ers and Seahawks believes in building the roster in order to enhance the prospects for its starting qb.

 

If Cousins steadily improves as the season advances he will be an intriguing target for other qb starved teams. He certainly will not be an elite qb in this league but I believe that he can be a credible starter. That in itself is a major leap forward for a team that has lacked direction and has not moved forward for a very long time.

 

The GM and staff of the Skins have to make a decision at where they are at and not on where they wish they were at. I contend that they are going to move forward with Cousins. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I am sure Gruden does like him and I said as much. He is a Gruden style of Quarterback. But if they sign him to a $17m deal then based on what I see I contend that they will be sitting here in 3 years where we were with Fitz. Nice guy and a better QB than what had come before... but ultimately not a starter you are going to be able to win consistently with.

 

If I could get Cousins for $10-12m a year I'd be content to roll wih him whilst behind the scenes I search for a better option. At $17m I would shake his hand let another team over pay him and move on.

Edited November 19, 2015 by GunnerBill

[dayman]

does the NFL want football to turn into touch not tackle?

Why else is it promoting a passing league so blatently ? No reason why one position should be so disproportionately paid.

 

supply/demand

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Lets see how Cousins does against the Panthers.

 

Carolina D ppg - 6th best NO dead last

Carolina D ypg - 10th best NO dead last

Carolina D ypp - 2nd best NO dead last

[BarleyNY]

80% of Snaps: $1M bonus

He lost 2 weeks of snaps (12,5^) of games but because EJ took a lot more snaps per game due to style of play/game TT has last more than 12% of snaps.

 

If he loses more snaps to injuries he could drop under 80% of snaps.

I was talking about the agent for Cousins, not TT.

That's more than fair. I was trying trying to hedge (not to you) but to those that will be mad if the Bills offer $15M, mad if he then costs $20M, and mad if we lose guys. We can't have everything but there will be people here that will want that. You have taken a stance and it's totally reasonable.

As is yours. Just different appetites for risk in this case. Here's hoping your path is the smart one.

[Bill from NYC]

Anyone else starting to think that Gilmore might be a goner with the emergence of Darby?

I think that posters often turn a blind eye as to what Gilmore would/will cost the Bills next season. It is depressing. Here is the contract of Darelle Revis:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/darrelle-revis/

 

He's got 16 million in 2015, 17 million in 2016, and 7 million in 2017 GUARANTEED!!!!!!!!!! And you can bet that if he is still playing at or even near this level in 2 or 3 years, he will hold out for more guarantees.

 

When Revis signed this deal he was approx. 30, and coming off serious surgery. Gilmore is much younger, healthier, and the cap is going up, not down. He could easily get a deal where he is paid in the vicinity of 15 million per season. I for one do not think he is worth this kind of money/cap space.

 

Hey, maybe he IS worth it, but not imho.

[GunnerBill]

I think that posters often turn a blind eye as to what Gilmore would/will cost the Bills next season. It is depressing. Here is the contract of Darelle Revis:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/darrelle-revis/

 

He's got 16 million in 2015, 17 million in 2016, and 7 million in 2017 GUARANTEED!!!!!!!!!! And you can bet that if he is still playing at or even near this level in 2 or 3 years, he will hold out for more guarantees.

 

When Revis signed this deal he was approx. 30, and coming off serious surgery. Gilmore is much younger, healthier, and the cap is going up, not down. He could easily get a deal where he is paid in the vicinity of 15 million per season. I for one do not think he is worth this kind of money/cap space.

 

Hey, maybe he IS worth it, but not imho.

 

Gilmore isn't going to get Revis money. I think the Bills will be able to extend him for $12-13m a year - Sherman (who in my mind is a better comparison) and has a Superbowl ring got an average of $14m a year. $56m overall with $40m guaranteed.

[JohnC]

I think that posters often turn a blind eye as to what Gilmore would/will cost the Bills next season. It is depressing. Here is the contract of Darelle Revis:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/darrelle-revis/

 

He's got 16 million in 2015, 17 million in 2016, and 7 million in 2017 GUARANTEED!!!!!!!!!! And you can bet that if he is still playing at or even near this level in 2 or 3 years, he will hold out for more guarantees.

 

When Revis signed this deal he was approx. 30, and coming off serious surgery. Gilmore is much younger, healthier, and the cap is going up, not down. He could easily get a deal where he is paid in the vicinity of 15 million per season. I for one do not think he is worth this kind of money/cap space.

 

Hey, maybe he IS worth it, but not imho.

You know better than most that I have from the beginning been an advocate for Gilmore. I contend that he is now a top tier talent. Is he worth the amount of money you have described? No. The question one has to ask is whether the percentage of cap space he consumes is related to how he impacts the defense. Don't misinterpret what I am saying. He is a terrific corner but if a were going to give that amount of money I would rather give it to a player at a position that impacts/elevates the rest of the unit. An example of my point is Mario Williams playing at an elite level that impacts the rest of his line mates and the defense. (I'm aware that Mario is on the downside of the mountain and wouldn't warrant such a grandiose figure.)

[Coach Tuesday]

You know better than most that I have from the beginning been an advocate for Gilmore. I contend that he is now a top tier talent. Is he worth the amount of money you have described? No. The question one has to ask is whether the percentage of cap space he consumes is related to how he impacts the defense. Don't misinterpret what I am saying. He is a terrific corner but if a were going to give that amount of money I would rather give it to a player at a position that impacts/elevates the rest of the unit. An example of my point is Mario Williams playing at an elite level that impacts the rest of his line mates and the defense. (I'm aware that Mario is on the downside of the mountain and wouldn't warrant such a grandiose figure.)

 

I kind of agree. Gilmore is a weird player to me. He is clearly a top-tier cover corner but he doesn't really excel at any one thing. He's not a big tackler. He doesn't get too many INTs. He lacks elite closing speed (though he's plenty fast). He seems to lose focus and lose his man at least 2-3 times per game. Yet he's a student of the game, understands routes and how to defend them, and generally is very difficult to play against.

 

Darby, on the other hand, seems to have elite cover skills - he is on his man like a glove at all times.

[Bill from NYC]

Gilmore isn't going to get Revis money. I think the Bills will be able to extend him for $12-13m a year - Sherman (who in my mind is a better comparison) and has a Superbowl ring got an average of $14m a year. $56m overall with $40m guaranteed.

Sherman was a great comparison and actually strengthens the point I am trying to make.

 

The cap will go UP, not down GB. And 40 million guaranteed is actually more than, or the same as what Revis got.

 

Would you be ok giving the Sherman contract to Gilmore?

Edited November 19, 2015 by Bill from NYC

[JohnC]

 

I kind of agree. Gilmore is a weird player to me. He is clearly a top-tier cover corner but he doesn't really excel at any one thing. He's not a big tackler. He doesn't get too many INTs. He lacks elite closing speed (though he's plenty fast). He seems to lose focus and lose his man at least 2-3 times per game. Yet he's a student of the game, understands routes and how to defend them, and generally is very difficult to play against.

 

Darby, on the other hand, seems to have elite cover skills - he is on his man like a glove at all times.

You make an excellent point. What makes Gilmore a unique corner is his size. However, what prevents him from being an even more impacting player is his lack of ability to catch the ball. He has good ball skills but doesn't finish plays with interceptions. If he did his value would definitely go higher.

 

As you noted Darby has good cover skills but what sets him apart is that he goes after the ball and retrieves it. He attacks the ball as well as CB I have seen in a long time. That is a trait that Gilmore doesn't have.

[Coach Tuesday]

You make an excellent point. What makes Gilmore a unique corner is his size. However, what prevents him from being an even more impacting player is his lack of ability to catch the ball. He has good ball skills but doesn't finish plays with interceptions. If he did his value would definitely go higher.

 

As you noted Darby has good cover skills but what sets him apart is that he goes after the ball and retrieves it. He attacks the ball as well as CB I have seen in a long time. That is a trait that Gilmore doesn't have.

 

Yes - but Darby can do that because of his elite closing speed. It really sets him apart. He could be a great one.

[GunnerBill]

Sherman was a great comparison and actually strengthens the point I am trying to make.

 

The cap will go UP, not down GB. And 40 million guaranteed is actually more than, or the same as what Revis got.

 

Would you be ok giving the Sherman contract to Gilmore?

 

I'd be fine with the guaranteed money - yes. I'd want to get him for $12-13m a year and think that is achievable. As good as he is when I look at the hype level he get league wide (relatively low) and think of GMs comparing him to the deals for the big name elite corners out there I'd be surprised if he were to match Sherman on the open market. If he wants $14m plus I'd start to consider him expensive for our tastes.

 

EDIT: I also think and we should keep this in mind, that Rex will be pushing us to move our money backwards in the defense. That is how he has always done it. Had elite, highly paid players in the secondary, with cheaper role playing edge rushers. Wouldn't surprise me to see the Bills pay Gilmore and move on from Kyle and/or Mario to free up space.

Edited November 19, 2015 by GunnerBill

[Maddog69]

it would be a mistake to give Cousins that kind of money and it would be a mistake to re-do Taylor's contract at this point. Be patient. Let the season play out. If he plays well, what I would try to do if I were the Bills is to increase the guaranteed money in his current 3 years deal and try to remove the voidable 3yd option. Give him something like $15-20m guaranteed money over the next two seasons and then if he's great next year, look to make big money extension before year 3 starts.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Maddog69

[John from Riverside]

Extending him early will cost us too - and sooner. Plus we might not even see a good return on that if he flames out/fails to live up to his deal. No, I'll wait and pay him fair market if he hits. That's fine. Our choices are:

- Wait and possibly pay more, which will be market value

- Pay him above his market early in hopes that we will get a deal and save some money, but also take the chance we might be overpaying him substantially

 

I really do see your point, but I haven't seen enough and there is time. I wait and see what Taylor does. And here's the reason: What he hasn't proven he can do is the toughest part of being a quarterback. I really hope he makes it, but I'm skeptical.

We have him for 2 years on this contract......but I def would not wait for 2 years to do the deal

 

The end of the year.....that is where I make the decision. It gives us a years worth of tape to evaluate him and see if he is picking up the concepts......

[Canadian Bills Fan]

I think that posters often turn a blind eye as to what Gilmore would/will cost the Bills next season. It is depressing. Here is the contract of Darelle Revis:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/darrelle-revis/

 

He's got 16 million in 2015, 17 million in 2016, and 7 million in 2017 GUARANTEED!!!!!!!!!! And you can bet that if he is still playing at or even near this level in 2 or 3 years, he will hold out for more guarantees.

 

When Revis signed this deal he was approx. 30, and coming off serious surgery. Gilmore is much younger, healthier, and the cap is going up, not down. He could easily get a deal where he is paid in the vicinity of 15 million per season. I for one do not think he is worth this kind of money/cap space.

 

Hey, maybe he IS worth it, but not imho.

 

 

I think we should use the money that would have gone towards McKelvin and use it towards Gilmore's new contract

 

 

 

CBF

[GunnerBill]

We have him for 2 years on this contract......but I def would not wait for 2 years to do the deal

The final year is voidable if he starts 80% of the games in either years. He has started 7 of 9 so far but one of them was as a wide receiver.

[DrDawkinstein]

The final year is voidable if he starts 80% of the games in either years. He has started 7 of 9 so far but one of them was as a wide receiver.

 

The way I read it is if he plays more than 50% of the Offensive snaps in either of the first 2 years.

 

Is this inaccurate? http://www.buffalorumblings.com/bills-news-notes/2015/3/18/8236345/tyrod-taylor-contract-details-buffalo-bills-qb-nfl-free-agency-2015

 

 

The most interesting piece of the contract, also tied to Taylor's playing time, is a voidable clause. If Taylor plays in over 50 percent of the Bills' plays in either 2015 or 2016, and remains on the roster five days following the 2016 Super Bowl, the third year of the contract voids.

[GunnerBill]

I am sure I read 80%. My mistake.

[Hanoverbills]

Taylor is 5-2 as a starter, with losses only to New England and Cincinnati. He has won on the road and he has won when most of his offensive weapons have been hurt. He has particular strengths including leadership that are hard to find. Just as important, there is no aspect to his game which is below average, except his height, and tell than to Russell Wilson. He has been in the league long enough to know what's what. He reads defenses well the majority of the time and he's continuing to improve at that. He has a great arm and can make all the throws, including deep outs that don't hang in the air. And he runs extremely well. The Bills offense this year was not built to take full advantage of Taylor's mobility but it will be next year. Bottom line, huge upside.

 

I realize the Bills were burned by falling in love too quickly with Fitz. There is no rush to re-do Taylor's contract. But if the Bills finish strong (could still miss the playoffs due to EJ's blown games) I think they'll re-sign him in the spring.

 

As yourself if you've enjoyed waiting for Jim Kelly's successor to appear. Taylor isn't Kelly but he's the best we've had since Kelly.

The team is 5-2. Last week the special teams and defense won the game. Plus good running game. And he didn't start in the Cincinnati game, EJ did. McCoy and Watkins played in 5 of the seven games that TT started and they are 4-1 with them together and one game that McCoy didn't play Williams started and that was Giants game that they lost. He won one game without them guys and he threw for 109 yds and ran for 76 yds. First quarter stats of that game Tenn 115 yards and 7 first downs. Buffalo 7 yards and 0 first downs. He won the game with his legs in the second half of game and that was Mariota worst game of the year.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Hanoverbills

[John from Riverside]

The team is 5-2. Last week the special teams and defense won the game. Plus good running game. And he didn't start in the Cincinnati game, EJ did. McCoy and Watkins played in 5 of the seven games that TT started and they are 4-1 with them together and one game that McCoy didn't play Williams started and that was Giants game that they lost. He won one game without them guys and he threw for 109 yds and ran for 76 yds. First quarter stats of that game Tenn 115 yards and 7 first downs. Buffalo 7 yards and 0 first downs. He won the game with his legs in the second half of game and that was Mariota worst game of the year.

It is amazing the lengths people will go to to try to discredit the first good QB we have actually had in a while

[Malazan]

It is amazing the lengths people will go to to try to discredit the first good QB we have actually had in a while

 

The grass is always greener no matter how many times you jump over the fence.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

It is amazing the lengths people will go to to try to discredit the first good QB we have actually had in a while

Discredit or critique?

Jerry has a few words on the subject

 

Taylor still has much to prove as franchise QB [1:56 AM]

Buffalo News reports: 'Still, I remain unconvinced about Taylor as the Bills’ franchise quarterback. He has some gaudy statistics, and a 5-2 record as a starter.

[26CornerBlitz]

@AlbertBreer

As I just said on GDM, Redskins have had very preliminary contract talks with QB Kirk Cousins. Likely to intensify after the season.

[John from Riverside]

Discredit or critique?

Jerry has a few words on the subject

 

Taylor still has much to prove as franchise QB [1:56 AM]

Buffalo News reports: 'Still, I remain unconvinced about Taylor as the Bills’ franchise quarterback. He has some gaudy statistics, and a 5-2 record as a starter.

Please tell me you are not presenting Jerry drivel please

[Maury Ballstein]

Is cousins good or does he suck again ? What's the weekly update ?

[Saint Doug]

Is cousins good or does he suck again ? What's the weekly update ?

Hard to tell since he was playing against the Panthers and his team made some bone headed plays.

[26CornerBlitz]

Is cousins good or does he suck again ? What's the weekly update ?

 

He still sucks!

[Kelly the Dog]

I saw at least three turnovers. He still stinks.

[machine gun kelly]

The original question of how much and when to pay TT. Why give him a contract for next year? If your thinking you can get him lower, but what if he doesn't play as well next year. If you have two full years of solid performance at a low price, you resign your studs, Gilmore, Glenn, and Bradham, in that order. Gilmore has done so well this year, and Glenn is the 4th best rated LT in the League.

 

You wait for the cap to go up twice, get the new TNF money when it goes to a network for 16 games, and the cap goes up significantly, if Yahoo gets the OUS contract, that's even more money, and now you have room for TT is he is excellent. You also can restructure or in two years re-evaluate Mario's contract. By that time, he may have to accept less.

 

Meanwhile, I trust Whaley for two more solid drafts with at least three starters per draft, and we're good. It's funny seeing late round guys for us like Cockrell goes to the Steelers and he is a starter. That ought to tell you areas where we are deep are starting for other solid teams.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Local DC 980 sports radio following Skins games - Rumor mill was that they were to give Cousins an extension this week and now they speculate that the $ figure is sure to drop after yesterdays meh performance.

Please tell me you are not presenting Jerry drivel please

I try not to. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then.

I wouldn't think about any extensions until deep into the 2016 season so he can prove his worth. Prove to us what you have then talk $

 

 

5-2 + missed 2 games w/injury.

At home he dug a deep hole vs NE* with 2 INT's, got whooped on by the Giants, then on the road barely got past the 2-8 Titans.

 

Sure, I'll give him a Mulligan for he week 2 Cheatriots game but not much else.

[YoloinOhio]

@AdamSchefter: By playing tonight, QB Tyrod Taylor should ensure he plays 50% of Buffalos plays this year, voiding last year of his contract, per sources.

[aristocrat]

Local DC 980 sports radio following Skins games - Rumor mill was that they were to give Cousins an extension this week and now they speculate that the $ figure is sure to drop after yesterdays meh performance.

I try not to. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then.

I wouldn't think about any extensions until deep into the 2016 season so he can prove his worth. Prove to us what you have then talk $

 

 

5-2 + missed 2 games w/injury.

At home he dug a deep hole vs NE* with 2 INT's, got whooped on by the Giants, then on the road barely got past the 2-8 Titans.

 

Sure, I'll give him a Mulligan for he week 2 Cheatriots game but not much else.

 

That's one way to lose a guy in the off season. If they offer him a deal and then he loses to the best team in the nfc and they say...now we're offering less! He will walk negotiating like that.

[JohnC]

I saw at least three turnovers. He still stinks.

He will get a new contract with the Redskins. How much? I can't say. But he will be their starting qb for the foreseeable future. If their coaching staff and front office believe that he can be a capable qb, and they do, he will be signing the contract documents this offseason.

 

The Skins set their program back by years with the monstrous draft deal to acquire RGIII. It was a disaster that set the franchise back by years. Odds are even if the Skins were in position to draft a good qb prospect they would be reluctant to do so.

 

It has been reported by the local media that preliminary discussions have taken place with a deal to be completed before the start of the next season.

Edited November 23, 2015 by JohnC

[YoloinOhio]

I think we all knew this but fwiw

 

@AdamSchefter: Tyrod Taylor has 3-year contract that's now expected to be voided to 2 years after tonight, which would make next season last on his deal.

 

@SalSports: Will still be under contract next season - FA after 2016. Team will most likely look to sign him before that. https://t.co/X8qKem27pv