Is Hackett junior varsity?

[finn]

Is Nathaniel Hackett as poor a coordinator as he seems? I have to follow the Bills online and rarely see a game, but my impression is that he is way over his head, a small-time college coach basically faking it and hoping no one notices. Is it that bad? Yes, he had to deal with young quarterbacks, but I saw (or rather read) no flare, no surprises, no imagination. He reminded me of an offensive version of Dave Wannstedt.

 

Was it that bad?

[8-8 Forever?]

Is Nathaniel Hackett as poor a coordinator as he seems? I have to follow the Bills online and rarely see a game, but my impression is that he is way over his head, a small-time college coach basically faking it and hoping no one notices. Is it that bad? Yes, he had to deal with young quarterbacks, but I saw (or rather read) no flare, no surprises, no imagination. He reminded me of an offensive version of Dave Wannstedt.

 

Was it that bad?

Frankly, the whole front office/coaching staff on paper is JV relative to the rest of the league, although I think they have had a great offseason and things look good for this season. Here's to hoping, for the 15th time.

[machine gun kelly]

Last year he was over his head in that Marrone should have done last year what he did this year in hiring an Assistant head Coach in Hostler, and a QB coach for a rookie, and inexperienced back ups.

 

Because of such inexperience, teams will often rely more on a running game, and safe and easy passes. Compound this with your starter missing half the pre-season, and getting hurt two more times in the year missing 6 regular season games.

 

There were times where Hackett looked sharp like in the KC game. It's not his fault Tuel throws a critical INT in the end zone, and when Graham drops a ball on our 10 yard line causing a 14 pt. swing in the game. I'm not willing to throw him under the bus yet, but he should be able to open up the passing game this year.

 

If he was that bad, and all of these teams who had good front 7's knew we were going to run the ball, and our bad O-Line, and we still ended up 2nd in the NFL in the run.

 

That's not an accident. I'm just saying give him time this year with new tools, a better line we hope, a more mature QB and see how he calls plays this year.

[ALF]

Adding 2 good RB's and beefed up OL means back to "ground chuck" (Knox) , take some pressure off EJ . Gives our defence some rest by control time of possession.

[rcatty]

You don't call a pass from the one or two yard line with an inexperienced rookie qb. You have to put people in a position to succeed, not fail.

[xsoldier54]

You don't call a pass from the one or two yard line with an inexperienced rookie qb. You have to put people in a position to succeed, not fail.

Oh really? So no other team does this? it's against the rules? I must have missed the memo on that one, because that is what many NFL teams do to counter the defense stacking the line against the run.

[eball]

Is Nathaniel Hackett as poor a coordinator as he seems? I have to follow the Bills online and rarely see a game, but my impression is that he is way over his head, a small-time college coach basically faking it and hoping no one notices. Is it that bad? Yes, he had to deal with young quarterbacks, but I saw (or rather read) no flare, no surprises, no imagination. He reminded me of an offensive version of Dave Wannstedt.

 

Was it that bad?

 

Thanks for playing.

 

Edit: I was chastised for my tone, so I'll answer seriously. How can you come up with that sort of opinion when you admit you don't even watch the games? I tire of this stuff.

Edited June 4, 2014 by eball

[Beerball]

Oh really? So no other team does this? it's against the rules? I must have missed the memo on that one, because that is what many NFL teams do to counter the defense stacking the line against the run.

With the 3rd string QB? I'll take a seat while you find all of the examples.

[YoloinOhio]

You don't call a pass from the one or two yard line with an inexperienced rookie qb. You have to put people in a position to succeed, not fail.

He didn't call the pass. He called for a run play, and the play had a run/pass option in which Tuel chose the pass. This was explained by Marrone or Hackett at some point after the game. I suppose you could question why they allowed him to exercise options on plays.

[Dibs]

Is Nathaniel Hackett as poor a coordinator as he seems? I have to follow the Bills online and rarely see a game, but my impression is that he is way over his head, a small-time college coach basically faking it and hoping no one notices. Is it that bad? Yes, he had to deal with young quarterbacks, but I saw (or rather read) no flare, no surprises, no imagination. He reminded me of an offensive version of Dave Wannstedt.

 

Was it that bad?

 

I don't really have the expertise to figure it out.

 

However, what I do know is that with rookie QBs(injured and down to 3rd & 4th string), hobbled RBs(both at the same time), a hobbled #1WR(who missed 4 games....should have been 5) & rookie #2 & #4 WRs, a turnstile RG and a porous OL in general.........his offense still produced to similar levels( run, pass & scoring) to the previous year where we apparently had an offensive genius HC/OC.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Dibs

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Last year he was over his head in that Marrone should have done last year what he did this year in hiring an Assistant head Coach in Hostler, and a QB coach for a rookie, and inexperienced back ups.

 

Because of such inexperience, teams will often rely more on a running game, and safe and easy passes. Compound this with your starter missing half the pre-season, and getting hurt two more times in the year missing 6 regular season games.

 

There were times where Hackett looked sharp like in the KC game. It's not his fault Tuel throws a critical INT in the end zone, and when Graham drops a ball on our 10 yard line causing a 14 pt. swing in the game. I'm not willing to throw him under the bus yet, but he should be able to open up the passing game this year.

 

If he was that bad, and all of these teams who had good front 7's knew we were going to run the ball, and our bad O-Line, and we still ended up 2nd in the NFL in the run.

 

That's not an accident. I'm just saying give him time this year with new tools, a better line we hope, a more mature QB and see how he calls plays this year.

 

There's a school of thought that the guy calling the play shouldn't have called those particular plays at that time, especially when our running game was working well.

[billsfan1959]

 

 

I don't really have the expertise to figure it out.

 

However, what I do know is that with rookie QBs(injured and down to 3rd & 4th string), hobbled RBs(both at the same time), a hobbled #1WR(who missed 4 games....should have been 5) & rookie #2 & #4 WRs, a turnstile RG and a porous OL in general.........his offense still produced to similar levels( run, pass & scoring) to the previous year where we apparently had an offensive genius HC/OC.

This +100

 

Not to mention that, with all of the above going on, I believe 9 of their games were against teams ranked in the top ten defensively, and only 2-3 of their opponents were above the 15-20 defensive rank range. Add to that the fact that it was a brand new coaching staff from top to bottom.

 

Above average talent, playing to the level of that talent, playing consistently, and remaining healthy are as critical as the coach's abilities. Most of us felt Pettine was a good DC; yet, when his secondary was injured and hobbled, the defense was torched in the passing game. And, a linebacking corp of overall less than average talent contributed greatly to a less than average run defense.

 

I have no idea if Hackett will be a good OC. I just know it is unfair to make any conclusive judgements from last year.

Edited June 4, 2014 by billsfan1959

[RyanC883]

I think the fact we scored a ton of points last year with 3 different QB's proves that Hackett is more than capable. If we had a proven starter, we would likely be picked as a SB contender. I feel very good with Hackett at OC. Now, as for the terrible pass at the 1 yard line, that was a rookie mistake by two rookies (QB and OC). Although at the time I did want to break my TV.

Edited June 4, 2014 by RyanC883

[Webster Guy]

It's hard to say yet because he was working with a rookie qb who worked through two injuries, installing a new offense, had a serious problem at left guard that constantly broke up plays and momentum, and CJ had a major issue with his ankle for most of the season.

 

There are many facets to the OC job, and they go much further than play calling. He chose to play TJ Graham over larger receivers with better hands and ball skills which was questionable because it became apparent that EJ isn't a super accurate passer, he became predictable at times but began to loosen up as the season went on (2nd Jets game was very well called).

 

This season will tell the tale on both hackett and EJ. they need each other to succeed in this league and hopefully they can find a way.

[CountryCletus]

 

 

Thanks for playing.

 

Edit: I was chastised for my tone, so I'll answer seriously. How can you come up with that sort of opinion when you admit you don't even watch the games? I tire of this stuff.

 

Eball: I know a guy, who has a cousin that was told about an article written about why the Bills won't have success this year... He didn't have all the facts, but the title of the article alone was enough to prove to me that we are destined for failure again this year...

[Mr. WEO]

He was definitely varsity---in the Big East.....

[PO'14]

There's a school of thought that the guy calling the play shouldn't have called those particular plays at that time, especially when our running game was working well.

It was working so well that Fred Jackson got stuffed on the 1 yard line TWO TIMES prior to that interception! Hindsight rocks! No one was complaining when Tuel was playing well prior.

[The Big Cat]

I'm confused. If OP "follows the Bills online" thereby relying on the information there within, how have the never ending debates on this topic eluded him/her since September?

[Heitz]

Thanks for playing.

 

Edit: I was chastised for my tone, so I'll answer seriously. How can you come up with that sort of opinion when you admit you don't even watch the games? I tire of this stuff.

 

Your snark was well deserved in this case, IMO, especially when we've seen this question posed a million times in other threads.

 

FWIW, many of the former NFL players and FO types on Sirius have had nothing by praise for both Hackett and Marrone saying things like "they're the guys", etc.

 

I'll take the opinion of the experts (and, even more importantly will see what the guy can do with healthy players, a full off-season, etc) before passing judgment...

[John from Riverside]

There really needs to be a minimum post count before you start a new thread......

[The Big Cat]

Your snark was well deserved in this case, IMO, especially when we've seen this question posed a million times in other threads.

 

FWIW, many of the former NFL players and FO types on Sirius have had nothing by praise for both Hackett and Marrone saying things like "they're the guys", etc.

 

I'll take the opinion of the experts (and, even more importantly will see what the guy can do with healthy players, a full off-season, etc) before passing judgment...

 

And I've contributed this EVERY TIME this stupid argument has popped up (starting in week 2 2013):

 

Personnel and execution had a MUCH more (negative) impact on the offense than playcalling EVER did.

Edited June 4, 2014 by The Big Cat

[#34fan]

Nate Hackett is the worst. Period.

 

He's Paul Hackett's kid, so everyone (including himself) thinks he's the S#!t... He grades his performance by how many plays he can draw up while sitting on his spoiled, entitled, duff. I have no doubt in my mind that his dry, predictable, playcalling will cost us games.

[K-9]

He didn't call the pass. He called for a run play, and the play had a run/pass option in which Tuel chose the pass. This was explained by Marrone or Hackett at some point after the game. I suppose you could question why they allowed him to exercise options on plays.

 

Thank-you. KC had a run-blitz called to their right side and Freddy would have been dumped. Tuel made the right choice but he screwed the pooch in execution. Stevie couldn't have been more wide open and it's not often a totally beaten DB who whiffed so badly will step into an INT like that. Tuel's option on that play was EXACTLY what Hackett had drawn up and was the perfect call vs. that run blitz.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[The Big Cat]

Thank-you. KC had a run-blitz called to their right side and Freddy would have been dumped. Tuel made the right choice but he screwed the pooch in execution. Stevie couldn't have been more wide open and it's not often a totally beaten DB who whiffed so badly will step into an INT like that. Tuel's option on that play was EXACTLY what Hackett had drawn up and was the perfect call vs. that run blitz.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I guess you haven't been paying attention:

 

Nate Hackett is the worst. Period.

 

He's Paul Hackett's kid, so everyone (including himself) thinks he's the S#!t... He grades his performance by how many plays he can draw up while sitting on his spoiled, entitled, duff. I have no doubt in my mind that his dry, predictable, playcalling will cost us games.

[NickelCity]

I really, really dislike Hackett's playcalling. As I mentioned yesterday, I noticed them practicing that horrendous play where EJ dumps it off to Chandler. Why?? Why does that play exist? How is it still allowed to be practiced/called? Ugh. Flashbacks to last year.

[The Big Cat]

\As I mentioned yesterday, I noticed them practicing that horrendous play where EJ dumps it off to Chandler. Why?? Why does that play exist? How is it still allowed to be practiced/called?

 

You're struggling to think of a reality and/or universe where a QB would dump off to his TE?

[NickelCity]

You're struggling to think of a reality and/or universe where a QB would dump off to his TE?

 

On this team, with chandler, given the rate of success last year? That whole play (and maybe I'm describing it poorly) relies on Chandler's athleticism before the first unblocked defender gets there, which was usually 1 or 2 yards past the line of scrimmage. That play wouldn't bother me if it were CJ, Fred, Sammy, Marquise, etc

[#34fan]

You're struggling to think of a reality and/or universe where a QB would dump off to his TE?

 

That stupid play is going to make some overrated linebacker's highlight reel. Not to mention cost us a much-needed TE... Hopefully, it's just practice, and they do something else in a real game...

 

Also, Someone has yet to explain to me why a "flea flicker" was called in Cleveland last year. That play didn't have snowball's chance.

[FLFan]

Understanding Offensive Play Calling for Fans 101:

 

If the play works, of course that was the right call and only an idiot would have done something different; if a play does not work, the OC is an idiot and should be fired immediately.

[John from Riverside]

TE's get these type of passes all the time

[FluffHead]

Understanding Offensive Play Calling for Fans 101:

 

If the play works, of course that was the right call and only an idiot would have done something different; if a play does not work, the OC is an idiot and should be fired immediately.

This. Teaching and coaching are two of many jobs that people on the outside always believe they can do better and they heavily criticize decisions AFTER they have access to the results. It's really not fair at all.

[BreezeMafia]

With the 3rd string QB? I'll take a seat while you find all of the examples.

 

Not volunteering what I feel the intent of the original message was, my view and I shared this the afternoon the blew the KC game. "Why even put the 3rd string QB in that position to make the most critical play of the game????" Why? I have felt since game 1 last season that yes is JV.

 

So think about this. Last year our JV OC had to go toe to toe with the following Defensive Wizards: Belichick x2, Rex Ryan x2, LeBau, KC D Coordinator, Mike Zimmer, Cleveland's D Coordinator (who is now with Tennessee, forgot his name), etc. You get the picture. Two words - outmatched, outclassed.

[NickelCity]

TE's get these type of passes all the time

 

Let me try to clarify. I'm well aware that TE's get these type of passes across the league. I'm saying that with Chandler, who is neither remarkably fast nor strong, this play tends to result in very little. It was run a lot last year, and you could usually tell it was coming and I actually don't recall it ever achieving more than mediocrity, more often resulting in a wasted play. Granted, the flip side of this argument is that it was the execution that was slipping. That's certainly plausible, but I still disliked Hackett's tendency to call it over, and over, and over again in the same game.

 

Also, to address the "playcalling 101" comment, I think we're all capable of understanding hindsight. What frustrated a lot of us last year was that Hackett's favorite plays were at times so predictable that we could guess, with striking accuracy, what play was about to be run. I'm as optimistic as ever about this season, but Hackett has to improve.

[LB3]

 

 

Not volunteering what I feel the intent of the original message was, my view and I shared this the afternoon the blew the KC game. "Why even put the 3rd string QB in that position to make the most critical play of the game????" Why? I have felt since game 1 last season that yes is JV.

 

So think about this. Last year our JV OC had to go toe to toe with the following Defensive Wizards: Belichick x2, Rex Ryan x2, LeBau, KC D Coordinator, Mike Zimmer, Cleveland's D Coordinator (who is now with Tennessee, forgot his name), etc. You get the picture. Two words - outmatched, outclassed.

 

That KC D coordinator certainly outclassed Hackett. Giving up 470 to a rookie OC with a 3rd string rookie QB. Wizardry I say! Wizardry!

[The Big Cat]

Let me try to clarify. I'm well aware that TE's get these type of passes across the league. I'm saying that with Chandler, who is neither remarkably fast nor strong, this play tends to result in very little. It was run a lot last year, and you could usually tell it was coming and I actually don't recall it ever achieving more than mediocrity, more often resulting in a wasted play. Granted, the flip side of this argument is that it was the execution that was slipping. That's certainly plausible, but I still disliked Hackett's tendency to call it over, and over, and over again in the same game.

 

Also, to address the "playcalling 101" comment, I think we're all capable of understanding hindsight. What frustrated a lot of us last year was that Hackett's favorite plays were at times so predictable that we could guess, with striking accuracy, what play was about to be run. I'm as optimistic as ever about this season, but Hackett has to improve.

 

And you believe that was the first option? That EJ didn't didn't let the play develop and checked too soon? You think the play was primarily designed to get Chandler the ball behind the line?

[ganesh]

Oh really? So no other team does this? it's against the rules? I must have missed the memo on that one, because that is what many NFL teams do to counter the defense stacking the line against the run.

But given that he was a rookie undrafted QB, the coach made a gutsy call to let his QB wing it instead of running the ball as the defense would have expected it. Also, it was a fluke play from KC side as the defensive player was actually beat and lucked out.

[chris heff]

Is Nathaniel Hackett as poor a coordinator as he seems? I have to follow the Bills online and rarely see a game, but my impression is that he is way over his head, a small-time college coach basically faking it and hoping no one notices. Is it that bad? Yes, he had to deal with young quarterbacks, but I saw (or rather read) no flare, no surprises, no imagination. He reminded me of an offensive version of Dave Wannstedt.

 

Was it that bad?

In this day and age I find it depressing that you can't watch games. You can't even watch replays of games online? I can't imagine going back to the days when I would watch a game I didn't care about just to see what the score was in the Bills game, or driving all over the place to find a bar showing the Bills.

 

To answer your question last years offense was pretty predictable. I'm not sure what the plan was last year. Why not get young guys like Hackett and Manual all the help you can? Did they want to limit the number of voices in a Manuals ear? They have rogognized that what they were doing wasn't working. I think they knew it last year, which is why Hackett was down on the field for the last part of the season. If this offense does not produce this year Hackett will be gone.

[hondo in seattle]

Yes, Hackett was in over his head. It was essentially his first year in the NFL. Marrone, a former OC himself, should have spent more time with Hackett (Doug later admitted this himself). Sometimes the team didn't seem prepared on Sundays. Sometimes Hackett's play calling was suspect. I'm not sure why he rarely called screens and it was frustrating to watch his inability to create space for CJ. While Spiller was dinged a bit, I think most of the reason CJ's YPC dropped from 6.0 (2012) to 4.6 (2013) was Hackett's flawed schemes and play-calling.

 

As a first time OC, Hackett should not have been trying to be OC and QB Coach at the same time. Especially when our roster had only rookie and inexperienced QBs on it. Just being a OC in the NFL is demanding enough. And our young QBs deserved a full time QB coach.

 

Having said all that, let's give the man a chance. Let's see how much Hackett's learned in the past year. Hiring a QB coach is a good sign and Marrone says he'll spend more time with Hackett and the offense this year. A more stable QB situation could help Hackett too.

 

Few people are big successes in their first year on the job. I'm hoping Hackett has a much better sophomore season and eventually blooms into a great OC.

[atlbillsfan1975]

He didn't call the pass. He called for a run play, and the play had a run/pass option in which Tuel chose the pass. This was explained by Marrone or Hackett at some point after the game. I suppose you could question why they allowed him to exercise options on plays.

Bingo!

 

I criticized Hackett early and often. I admitt i should have and eventually did throw it towards Marrone. To think a guy with very little NFL coaching experience could come in and be OC and QB coach with a rookie QB was poor judgement on Marrone's part.

Changes have been made during the offseason and all we can hope is that the three guys Hackett, Hostler, and the QB coach work well together. I do believe the talent is there, we just need the coaching.

[NickelCity]

And you believe that was the first option? That EJ didn't didn't let the play develop and checked too soon? You think the play was primarily designed to get Chandler the ball behind the line?

 

Which I acknowledge when I talk about execution - in this case EJ getting rid of it before the play develops. If execution repeatedly fails, I believe the OC should reduce the incidence of calling that play. Maybe it's just me, but I really think we all agree on some level here...