Is Hackett junior varsity?

[The Big Cat]

Which I acknowledge when I talk about execution - in this case EJ getting rid of it before the play develops. If execution repeatedly fails, I believe the OC should reduce the incidence of calling that play. Maybe it's just me, but I really think we all agree on some level here...

 

Well I agree on the one point which has now been well documented: that EJ does a poor job of letting plays fully develop, this by his own admission, even.

 

But, when the shortcomings of your best quarterback limit your playcalling abilities AND your offensive line limits your playcalling abilities (as has also been documented) AND your hobbled running back limits your playcalling abilities AND your receiver corps is arguably the worst unit on the team (name a worse one), then what--praytell--is expected of our rookie OC? On top o that, what's expected when the best quarterback goes down? Then the second?

[#34fan]

Understanding Offensive Play Calling for Fans 101:

 

If the play works, of course that was the right call and only an idiot would have done something different; if a play does not work, the OC is an idiot and should be fired immediately.

 

The question in Hackett's case is WHY did the play not work? Was it truly due to player error, or was it because the coordinator lacks a fundamental understanding of who his players are, and what exactly they do well?

 

-It's HIS JOB to know this stuff people. He needs to, in order to put guys in a position to win. So fine, -A game plan isn't working... Why keep doing it? Why keep going back to something that just ain't happening? TJ Graham is physically outmatched by most NFL corners.. If I HAD to have him on my team, he's be strictly KR... Why is he running routes he can't get separation on, and going after deep balls? That's not going to work.

 

How in the world is CJ "up the gut" vs. a stacked box going to result in a first down? Why even call that play? Hackett did that several times last season. The bottom line is that people won't start screaming until they see Sammy being misused. I'd rather tap a talented college assistant that have to endure another season of hackett's offensive tone-deafness.

[atlbillsfan1975]

The question in Hackett's case is WHY did the play not work? Was it truly due to player error, or was it because the coordinator lacks a fundamental understanding of who his players are, and what exactly they do well?

 

-It's HIS JOB to know this stuff people. He needs to, in order to put guys in a position to win. So fine, -A game plan isn't working... Why keep doing it? Why keep going back to something that just ain't happening? TJ Graham is physically outmatched by most NFL corners.. If I HAD to have him on my team, he's be strictly KR... Why is he running routes he can't get separation on, and going after deep balls? That's not going to work.

 

How in the world is CJ "up the gut" vs. a stacked box going to result in a first down? Why even call that play? Hackett did that several times last season. The bottom line is that people won't start screaming until they see Sammy being misused. I'd rather tap a talented college assistant that have to endure another season of hackett's offensive tone-deafness.

It was not just the frequency but also the fact he did it at the exact same time.

Someone who has far more time then i do should go see how many times to start a half or game that was the call. I bet you it was over 50% of the time.

[BigBuff423]

I'm willing to give Hackett another opportunity to demonstrate what he can do with a relatively healthy Offense and another year in the NFL, not to mention two key assistants in Hostler and Downing working with EJ...I'll reserve judgment until this time next year as to whether I'll be singing his praises or hanging him in effigy outside my work window...

[The Big Cat]

The question in Hackett's case is WHY did the play not work? Was it truly due to player error, or was it because the coordinator lacks a fundamental understanding of who his players are, and what exactly they do well?

 

-It's HIS JOB to know this stuff people. He needs to, in order to put guys in a position to win. So fine, -A game plan isn't working... Why keep doing it? Why keep going back to something that just ain't happening? TJ Graham is physically outmatched by most NFL corners.. If I HAD to have him on my team, he's be strictly KR... Why is he running routes he can't get separation on, and going after deep balls? That's not going to work.

 

How in the world is CJ "up the gut" vs. a stacked box going to result in a first down? Why even call that play? Hackett did that several times last season. The bottom line is that people won't start screaming until they see Sammy being misused. I'd rather tap a talented college assistant that have to endure another season of hackett's offensive tone-deafness.

 

Or perhaps his desire to maximize his players' talents was completely suffocated by masking others' shortcomings, which has been well documented.

 

It was not just the frequency but also the fact he did it at the exact same time.

Someone who has far more time then i do should go see how many times to start a half or game that was the call. I bet you it was over 50% of the time.

 

Well, someone has done that. And they're findings have been disproving perceptions like yours since last September.

 

Seriously, you guys who wonder these things really really need to head over to the googles and ingratiate yourselves with the 40+ all-22 analyses that were produced last year by WGR, Rumblings and other bloggers who have "far more time" than you.

[thewildrabbit]

There's a school of thought that the guy calling the play shouldn't have called those particular plays at that time, especially when our running game was working well.

There is, and what might get Hackett fired is the very same thing that got Chan Gailey fired. Which was his over expectations from a known limited QB!!

 

Gailey called plays like he had Brady / Brees behind center, and he didn't. A man has got to know his limitations, and more importantly the limitations of his QB. Gutsy playcalling with an undrafted rookie QB who won 4 games out of 26 while in college is nothing more then moronic. Leave the gutsy play calls for the QB's who have proven they can make plays in crunch time. Otherwise let the known stars do their jobs (RB's), and it helps even more if you manage to put them in position to succeed in making plays.

 

Did I also mention that Hackett called 70% of his running plays right up the middle with Spiller as the lead back. You don't have a racehorse pull a plow either... This type of play calling tends to be very predictable, and in the NFL that means it will get shut down very quickly. The RB's, and linemen were experienced and could have handled more complicated run schemes.

 

That said, Nate Hackett was also an NFL rookie, and should be given some leeway as he was learning as the season went on. Gailey never learned, and put all his efforts into a broken QB who should have remained a backup.

 

Lets hope that Hackett has learned from his experience from the 2013 season, and went back and watched what Gailey did to get Spiller more productive. One thing is for certain, is that Hackett has a much better receiving corps then Gailey ever had. All we can do is hope he knows how to utilize all those fine young players. Watkins, Williams, Woods, Goodwin.

[thebandit27]

Here's what bothers me in this thread: it seems the same people that are upset about Hackett's predictability and conservative play-calling are also upset that he gave Jeff Tuel the option to check out of a run to a pre-packaged passing play if he read run blitz (which he correctly did) against KC.

 

Can't have it both ways folks.

[The Big Cat]

There is, and what might get Hackett fired is the very same thing that got Chan Gailey fired. Which was his over expectations from a known limited QB!!

 

Gailey called plays like he had Brady / Brees behind center, and he didn't.

 

This is false. He called plays that maximized Fitz's narrow skill set. And short, quick calls resulted in defenses playing close to the line, essentially trapping Fitz into throwing the passes he couldn't: deep ones.

 

Did I also mention that Hackett called 70% of his running plays right up the middle with Spiller as the lead back. You don't have a racehorse pull a plow either... This type of play calling tends to be very predictable, and in the NFL that means it will get shut down very quickly. The RB's, and linemen were experienced and could have handled more complicated run schemes.

 

This an abject lie. According to these numbers, it was actually half of that (approx 34% of his runs). And his YPC on those doomed "up the gut" runs? 6.86 7.58.

 

Explain to me again what you're pissed about??

Edited June 4, 2014 by The Big Cat

[#34fan]

Yah, I found a couple. Their analysis is good, but the conclusions seem to support both theories.

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-analysis-all-22/2014/5/30/5764646/buffalo-bills-run-scheme-cj-spiller-play-calls

 

Mods, I know SB nation isn't allowed, but I wasn't sure about rumblings.. Feel free to delete if necessary.

 

Dude, it's just been too ugly for FAR too long. Last season CJ racked up 202 attempts for 933 yards, and a whopping 2 TD's! Jamaal Charles got 12 TD's off 259 attempts and 1287 yards. Chris Johnson had 279 attempts for 1077 yards and 6 TD's, and that's a guy who's supposedly slacking off!

 

Last but not least, Legarette Blount in his first and only season in the Pats offense, got 7 TD's off 49 LESS carries than CJ and a 160 LESS yards... Spiller FYI, was drafted higher that ANY of these guys.

 

Look, I know about the ankle... I understand that other players have limitations. -The question is, does Hackett realize that these aren't real excuses? -Not for someone who claims to be professional. You have a problem. Figure it out.

 

Coming back to the title of the thread, YES, I would have to say that Nate Hackett is JV like a mofo.... If anyone would would like to start a thread about CJ Spiller's misuse, I'll be sure to jog right over to it.

[K-9]

Here's what bothers me in this thread: it seems the same people that are upset about Hackett's predictability and conservative play-calling are also upset that he gave Jeff Tuel the option to check out of a run to a pre-packaged passing play if he read run blitz (which he correctly did) against KC.

 

Can't have it both ways folks.

 

Nor do I see them complaining about Hackett giving Tuel the green light to execute the lowest percentage pass play in the book, like when he found Goodwin singled up and hit him deep in the same game they complain about Tuel having too much leeway.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[The Big Cat]

Yah, I found a couple. Their analysis is good, but the conclusions seem to support both theories.

 

http://www.buffaloru...ller-play-calls

 

Mods, I know SB nation isn't allowed, but I wasn't sure about rumblings.. Feel free to delete if necessary.

 

Dude, it's just been too ugly for FAR too long. Last season CJ racked up 202 attempts for 933 yards, and a whopping 2 TD's! Jamaal Charles got 12 TD's off 259 attempts and 1287 yards. Chris Johnson had 279 attempts for 1077 yards and 6 TD's, and that's a guy who's supposedly slacking off!

 

Last but not least, Legarette Blount in his first and only season in the Pats offense, got 7 TD's off 49 LESS carries than CJ and a 160 LESS yards... Spiller FYI, was drafted higher that ANY of these guys.

 

Look, I know about the ankle... I understand that other players have limitations. -The question is, does Hackett realize that these aren't real excuses? -Not for someone who claims to be professional. You have a problem. Figure it out.

 

Coming back to the title of the thread, YES, I would have to say that Nate Hackett is JV like a mofo.... If anyone would would like to start a thread about CJ Spiller's misuse, I'll be sure to jog right over to it.

 

Spiller had a high ankle sprain. He had major issues with execution. And he had a zero at LG. I understand you've decreed these as not "real" excuses, but I'm sorry, that claim is baloney and entirely unsubstantiated.

 

Oh: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/168046-cj-spillers-increased-role-in-offense/

[K-9]

Yah, I found a couple. Their analysis is good, but the conclusions seem to support both theories.

 

http://www.buffaloru...ller-play-calls

 

Mods, I know SB nation isn't allowed, but I wasn't sure about rumblings.. Feel free to delete if necessary.

 

Dude, it's just been too ugly for FAR too long. Last season CJ racked up 202 attempts for 933 yards, and a whopping 2 TD's! Jamaal Charles got 12 TD's off 259 attempts and 1287 yards. Chris Johnson had 279 attempts for 1077 yards and 6 TD's, and that's a guy who's supposedly slacking off!

 

Last but not least, Legarette Blount in his first and only season in the Pats offense, got 7 TD's off 49 LESS carries than CJ and a 160 LESS yards... Spiller FYI, was drafted higher that ANY of these guys.

 

Look, I know about the ankle... I understand that other players have limitations. -The question is, does Hackett realize that these aren't real excuses? -Not for someone who claims to be professional. You have a problem. Figure it out.

 

Coming back to the title of the thread, YES, I would have to say that Nate Hackett is JV like a mofo.... If anyone would would like to start a thread about CJ Spiller's misuse, I'll be sure to jog right over to it.

 

What are you waiting for? You're just the man/fan for the job.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Beerball]

Here's what bothers me in this thread: it seems the same people that are upset about Hackett's predictability and conservative play-calling are also upset that he gave Jeff Tuel the option to check out of a run to a pre-packaged passing play if he read run blitz (which he correctly did) against KC.

 

Can't have it both ways folks.

I saw one or two posts about predictable calls, admittedly I haven't read every post because I don't find this thread appealing...but, what concerns me:

Hackett has to take some of the blame for Manuel's inability to stay on the field.

Hackett has to take some of the blame for Manuel's poor mechanics.

Hackett has to take some of the blame for Manuel not allowing plays to develop.

Hackett has to take some of the blame for not using Spiller and Jackson on the field at the same time.

Hackett has to take some of the blame for not using Spiller on wheel routes.

Hackett has to take some of the blame for Spiller's regression as a RB.

Hackett has to take some of the blame for the almost total lack of screen calls (until late in the season). The same team minus the QB had previously shown themselves very adept at running screens.

 

Marrone takes the blame for putting too much on a first time NFL OC. He should have had a majordomo last season and he should also have had a QB coach.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Pee Wee.

[The Big Cat]

 

Hackett has to take some of the blame for the almost total lack of screen calls (until late in the season). The same team minus the QB had previously shown themselves very adept at running screens.

 

Minus Fitz, but more importantly minus Levitre. I'm sorry, but our screen passes were just turrible. Our execution was just plain lousy, and it was mostly because Legursky and Brown were about as nimble as filing cabinets.

[Beerball]

Minus Fitz, but more importantly minus Levitre. I'm sorry, but our screen passes were just turrible. Our execution was just plain lousy, and it was mostly because Legursky and Brown were about as nimble as filing cabinets.

The stat is out there somewhere...how often were screens run weeks 1-10?

[#34fan]

Spiller had a high ankle sprain. He had major issues with execution. And he had a zero at LG. I understand you've decreed these as not "real" excuses, but I'm sorry, that claim is baloney and entirely unsubstantiated.

 

Oh: http://forums.twobil...ole-in-offense/

 

Quoted from that WGR article:

 

"He suffered a high ankle sprain that put a damper on a good portion of his season and just never really evolved into the running back that the Bills were touting him to be ahead of last season. However, the argument can be made that the current Bills coaching staff just didn’t understand where Spiller would be most effective for the team when the regular season games started. They set incredibly lofty expectations as a workhorse back, but that’s not the type of player that Spiller is. By the time they realized what Spiller was, they were in the throes of the season and couldn’t put him in the spots he needed to be."

[thewildrabbit]

This is false. He called plays that maximized Fitz's narrow skill set. And short, quick calls resulted in defenses playing close to the line, essentially trapping Fitz into throwing the passes he couldn't: deep ones.

 

This is not false! What got Gailey fired wasn't the type of plays he called with a known limited QB. Which BTW were very predictable after he kept calling the same quick, short passing plays game after game.

 

What got Gailey fired more then anything in my view is his over use of that broken QB vs the two superstars he had at RB. Gailey was all about smoke and mirrors and trying to confuse the opposing defense with his lame 4- 5 WR sets when only one of those WR's was worth a damn.

 

What he should have been doing was figuring out more ways to make the run game work better or get the ball in space to his playmakers at RB. Lets also not forget how often the bum gave up entirely on the run game even when the team was only down by 3 points.

[Malazan]

There really needs to be a minimum post count before you start a new thread......

 

From your fingers to SDS eyes, hopefully.

 

This is not false! What got Gailey fired wasn't the type of plays he called with a known limited QB. Which BTW were very predictable after he kept calling the same quick, short passing plays game after game.

 

What got Gailey fired more then anything in my view is his over use of that broken QB vs the two superstars he had at RB. Gailey was all about smoke and mirrors and trying to confuse the opposing defense with his lame 4- 5 WR sets when only one of those WR's was worth a damn.

 

What he should have been doing was figuring out more ways to make the run game work better or get the ball in space to his playmakers at RB. Lets also not forget how often the bum gave up entirely on the run game even when the team was only down by 3 points.

 

Gailey's defense got him fired

Edited June 4, 2014 by jeremy2020

[thewildrabbit]

 

This an abject lie. According to these numbers, it was actually half of that (approx 34% of his runs). And his YPC on those doomed "up the gut" runs? 6.86 7.58.

 

Explain to me again what you're pissed about??

An abject lie, really?

 

why don't you take the time to read the run plays for ONLY 2013, and get back to me about that abject lie.

 

 

2013 up the middle

2013 up the middle

2013 left guard

2013 right guard

2013 right tackle

 

2013 up the middle

2013 left guard

2013 up the middle

2013 right guard

 

you get the idea....then read over this http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

RB carries left end 6%, left tackle 11%, mid guard 71%, right tackle 10%, right end 3%