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Hangartner and Evans


Webster Guy

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Yesterday we got embarrassed on offense because we have no backup center and no receivers getting open. We have a great RB, TE, FB and a decent QB. Hangartner would've stepped in an done a fine job with the QB he's snapped to a thousand times. Levitre would've played guard where he belongs and you would have seen a different game.

 

So we let Evans go for the same amount of money we signed Brad Smith for (about $7 mil for the next two years). If you could switch the two right now, would you? I know I would, I know Fitz would too. All you Evans detractors that say he was washed up can babble all you want, the guy got open and had great hands.

 

Speaking of Brad Smith, if you think you're disappointed in his production now, wait until he fumbles a kickoff return which I guarantee he will if he continues to swing the ball around when he runs like that. I am benching Smith and Spiller immediately and putting Mckelvin back there to return kicks. CJ for punts.

 

I'm not going to say Ralph is cheap because I honestly don't think he's with it enough to care anymore, but depth isn't just about draft picks and free agency pickups, it's about keeping your veterans who shine when you need leadership and experience. You can't play a full season without key injuries, and if your only plan is hope nobody gets hurt, you're bound to end up where we are right now-- lost.

 

Does anybody think the 4th round pick we got for Evans is going to help us? How many 4th round picks do we have out there now helping us?

 

I'm not usually a negative poster but I can't sit here and listen to our management say depth is a problem and then watch them funnel our experienced guys out the back door to save money. Depth is a problem because of your shortsightedness and failure to value the continuity and contributions of our veteran players.

 

You made this bed Nix.

Edited by Webster Guy
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Yesterday we got embarrassed on offense because we have no backup center and no receivers getting open. We have a great RB, TE, FB and a decent QB. Hangartner would've stepped in an done a fine job with the QB he's snapped to a thousand times. Levitre would've played guard where he belongs and you would have seen a different game.

 

So we let Evans go for the same amount of money we signed Brad Smith for (about $7 mil for the next two years). If you could switch the two right now, would you? I know I would, I know Fitz would too. All you Evans detractors that say he was washed up can babble all you want, the guy got open and had great hands.

 

Speaking of Brad Smith, if you think you're disappointed in his production now, wait until he fumbles a kickoff return which I guarantee he will if he continues to swing the ball around when he runs like that. I am benching Smith and Spiller immediately and putting Mckelvin back there to return kicks. CJ for punts.

 

I'm not going to say Ralph is cheap because I honestly don't think he's with it enough to care anymore, but depth isn't just about draft picks and free agency pickups, it's about keeping your veterans who shine when you need leadership and experience. You can't play a full season without key injuries, and if your only plan is hope nobody gets hurt, you're bound to end up where we are right now-- lost.

 

Does anybody think the 4th round pick we got for Evans is going to help us? How many 4th round picks do we have out there now helping us?

 

I'm not usually a negative poster but I can't sit here and listen to our management say depth is a problem and then watch them funnel our experienced guys out the back door to save money. Depth is a problem because of your shortsightedness and failure to value the continuity and contributions of our veteran players.

 

You made this bed Nix.

Hoiw van an NFL team not have a backup Center? I mean, reallY?

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Levitre was terrible with the shotgun snaps, but recall that Hangartner was making decent money and looked like absolute garbage in the preseason. The sin was not bringing in someone else who could play center or at least realizing Levitre could not, not cutting Hangman.

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I'm still OK with the Evans thing. He hasn't played a lick for Baltimore and they are more than disappointed with him. I'll gladly take the 4th. My main issue like everyone else is with the depth. Seems like every other NFL team can plug guys in. We get an injury and it's lights out...we're done. Just pathetic.

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Yesterday we got embarrassed on offense because we have no backup center and no receivers getting open. We have a great RB, TE, FB and a decent QB. Hangartner would've stepped in an done a fine job with the QB he's snapped to a thousand times. Levitre would've played guard where he belongs and you would have seen a different game.

 

So we let Evans go for the same amount of money we signed Brad Smith for (about $7 mil for the next two years). If you could switch the two right now, would you? I know I would, I know Fitz would too. All you Evans detractors that say he was washed up can babble all you want, the guy got open and had great hands.

 

Speaking of Brad Smith, if you think you're disappointed in his production now, wait until he fumbles a kickoff return which I guarantee he will if he continues to swing the ball around when he runs like that. I am benching Smith and Spiller immediately and putting Mckelvin back there to return kicks. CJ for punts.

 

I'm not going to say Ralph is cheap because I honestly don't think he's with it enough to care anymore, but depth isn't just about draft picks and free agency pickups, it's about keeping your veterans who shine when you need leadership and experience. You can't play a full season without key injuries, and if your only plan is hope nobody gets hurt, you're bound to end up where we are right now-- lost.

 

Does anybody think the 4th round pick we got for Evans is going to help us? How many 4th round picks do we have out there now helping us?

 

I'm not usually a negative poster but I can't sit here and listen to our management say depth is a problem and then watch them funnel our experienced guys out the back door to save money. Depth is a problem because of your shortsightedness and failure to value the continuity and contributions of our veteran players.

 

You made this bed Nix.

 

 

I understand your frustration but what is Lee Evans doin? or what has he done this year? It's kind of clear that there was something wrong with him that the bills seen. He's not being productive at all. Hangarter was just a horrible release and I never knew why they let him go. Brad smith is just a little to slow for my liking when it comes to returning kicks. It should definitely be spiller and mckelvin back there, I agree with you.

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Lee Evans has exactly two receptions in two games for Baltimore this year. Are you sure you want to make him the saviour of this team? Hangartner regularly got pushed around and was generally abysmal. The fact is that this entire team needs to man up and start playing real football. The question is, do they have it in them to do so? I don't think so. If they did, it would have kicked in by now. After that Jets loss, most teams would have been embarrassed enough to play tougher the next week. This team's answer? Two more games where they got blown out and pushed around. I just don't think they are tough enough to rebound.

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I'm not usually a negative poster but I can't sit here and listen to our management say depth is a problem and then watch them funnel our experienced guys out the back door to save money. Depth is a problem because of your shortsightedness and failure to value the continuity and contributions of our veteran players.

 

You made this bed Nix.

 

These last two weeks have made it obvious that all these 'trust me, we know football' decisions since the beginning have caught up with the team. Here are decisions which were justified for one reason or the other at the time and are now looking to be a series of miscues:

- Hiring George Edwards: At the time of the hire, there was no indication of why he would have been good

- Picking Spiller with the #9 pick: Was supposed to be a playmaker. ANd yet in 1.5 seasons has done no more than we expect out of a 5th or 6th rounder. BPA he was not

- Letting Poz, Whitner go: Not saying these were great but created holes where we did not have to. I can excuse Poz as we replaced with a better LB in Barnett. However, we seem to just create holes and patch up instead of re-building

- Trading Evans: I reconciled at the time saying he wasnt getting open and we wouldnt be able to use him as we dont have the OL to sustain blocks. However, seeing Stevies' underwhelming numbers this year, it is becoming obvious that Evans' presence was helping Stevie (and the Bills) a lot. The fact that he is injured now does not excuse the decision to let him go as it was not known he would get injured at that time

- Letting Hang go: Sure he looked 'weak' but he would be a good swing backup as G and C.

 

Nix has blown smoke for a while now. 'Build through the draft and keep your own' ? Really ?

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These last two weeks have made it obvious that all these 'trust me, we know football' decisions since the beginning have caught up with the team. Here are decisions which were justified for one reason or the other at the time and are now looking to be a series of miscues:

- Hiring George Edwards: At the time of the hire, there was no indication of why he would have been good

- Picking Spiller with the #9 pick: Was supposed to be a playmaker. ANd yet in 1.5 seasons has done no more than we expect out of a 5th or 6th rounder. BPA he was not

- Letting Poz, Whitner go: Not saying these were great but created holes where we did not have to. I can excuse Poz as we replaced with a better LB in Barnett. However, we seem to just create holes and patch up instead of re-building

- Trading Evans: I reconciled at the time saying he wasnt getting open and we wouldnt be able to use him as we dont have the OL to sustain blocks. However, seeing Stevies' underwhelming numbers this year, it is becoming obvious that Evans' presence was helping Stevie (and the Bills) a lot. The fact that he is injured now does not excuse the decision to let him go as it was not known he would get injured at that time

- Letting Hang go: Sure he looked 'weak' but he would be a good swing backup as G and C.

 

Nix has blown smoke for a while now. 'Build through the draft and keep your own' ? Really ?

 

 

Yeah! 4 mistakes in the first 2 years of a COMPLETE FRANCHISE rebuild?!? Unacceptable!!... :rolleyes:

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Lee Evans has exactly two receptions in two games for Baltimore this year. Are you sure you want to make him the saviour of this team? Hangartner regularly got pushed around and was generally abysmal. The fact is that this entire team needs to man up and start playing real football. The question is, do they have it in them to do so? I don't think so. If they did, it would have kicked in by now. After that Jets loss, most teams would have been embarrassed enough to play tougher the next week. This team's answer? Two more games where they got blown out and pushed around. I just don't think they are tough enough to rebound.

Lee Evans ended up getting hurt in the preseason for Baltimore (foot), and there's no way to predict whether he would have suffered the same injury here. If he had stayed here, he may have been fine. It's the luck of the draw, and it's not like he's an injury prone player.

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It'd be nice if the front office would go out and get some WRs and perhaps a C this week instead of screwing around with practice squad guys who've played as many NFL games as we all have. I'm not going to be amused if Gailey uses Levitre at Center again. It didn't work. Do something else.

 

It is shocking that despite us being nuked from near earth orbit the last three weeks, we are still in it. Should KC pull off something big tonight, it will indeed tell me the cosmic forces for a Bills playoff berth are not only aligned but refuse to go away despite our best attempts. :lol:

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I'm still OK with the Evans thing. He hasn't played a lick for Baltimore and they are more than disappointed with him. I'll gladly take the 4th. My main issue like everyone else is with the depth. Seems like every other NFL team can plug guys in. We get an injury and it's lights out...we're done. Just pathetic.

 

Exactly

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Yeah! 4 mistakes in the first 2 years of a COMPLETE FRANCHISE rebuild?!? Unacceptable!!... :rolleyes:

You are better than such a response, DrD.

 

Even though I listed 'only' four, Such mistakes are crucial. Especially the decision to hire GEdwards may have been the worst of them as he has shown to be incapable of putting players in a position to succeed. Spencer Johnson, Carrington as LBs ? Leaving middle wide open ?

 

Lee Evans ended up getting hurt in the preseason for Baltimore (foot), and there's no way to predict whether he would have suffered the same injury here. If he had stayed here, he may have been fine. It's the luck of the draw, and it's not like he's an injury prone player.

Exactly. The decision was wrong at the time it was made, not in retrospect.

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Help me out. Just re-read the post and what I take from it is "Buddy Nix doesnt know football". Is that the point?

Okay, I will if you try to be a bit more descriptive yourself.

My point is that for a guy who supposedly came in with a lot of football knowledge, he sure looks to have made moves which seem to be anything but. Getting rid of players before we have proven replacements ? Bombing on a coaching pick ?

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Buddy Nix had me at hello. Seriously, at his first presser when he said he wasn't the smartest guy in the room then took shots at the Raiders then later proudly stated he would be sleeping when free agency began I knew that unless he drafted well his tenure would be a failure. His 1st draft pick as GM: CJ Spiller. 'Nuff said.

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Evans and Hangartner would not have made a material difference.

 

The problems started when you lost Bell and then Hairston. As we have seen for years, once you start juggling the OL, the offence starts to struggle. That'as what's going on right now.

 

On the D - we lost two starters that commanded attention from the opposing team in Williams and Merriman. Losing those guys leaves us young up front and that's not great in today's NFL.

 

Nix and Gailey always said give us three years. This is year two. Do not be surprised if we just miss the playoffs this year. It's all about experience. Next year is the time to EXPECT playoffs.

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Evans and Hangartner would not have made a material difference.

The problems started when you lost Bell and then Hairston. As we have seen for years, once you start juggling the OL, the offence starts to struggle. That'as what's going on right now.

 

On the D - we lost two starters that commanded attention from the opposing team in Williams and Merriman. Losing those guys leaves us young up front and that's not great in today's NFL.

 

Nix and Gailey always said give us three years. This is year two. Do not be surprised if we just miss the playoffs this year. It's all about experience. Next year is the time to EXPECT playoffs.

 

 

I beg to differ on Hangartner...you just can't go into an NFL football season (particularly the Bills) and expect that your ordained starters (the cheapest guys, or the best guys) will not suffer some injuries...a guy like Hangartner, who has started at guard and center in the NFL, would be invaluable rigth now. Not having a legit NFL center is going to take Fred Jackson out of the mix, not to mention the woeful passing game.

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It's ironic our defense gets burned up the middle, week in & week out, yet opposing defenses have clogged the middle, so our offense cannot successfully use the middle of the field anymore. Now it seems our offense's favorite play is to take the snap & immediately pivot and throw to the wide-out. (And oh yeah, pray he makes a play, because, usually it goes for no gain!)

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The defense has played poorly all year, and only some turnovers and excellent play of the offense kept us competitive in the early part of the season. It would be reasonable after two years of Nix to expect the playoffs next year, but it is not going to happen. Way too many holes, in large part due to a terrible draft in 2010. It is fine to build through the draft if you can hit on your draft picks. Nix has not, and our team is weak and without depth because of it.

 

I am tired of rebuilding and not having success. Some teams rebuild in one or two years. We are going on 10 plus years, and if Detroit makes the playoffs, we will have the longest drought of not making the playoffs in the NFL.

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Evans and Hangartner would not have made a material difference.

Sorry, but the players do matter. The degree of difference in the final outcome is debatable, of course, but having guys that have experience & have played positions at a passable starting caliber level is quite different than plugging in a spread-option QB at WR or having a guy that's never snapped before play C for the first time in his life.

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I'm not going to say Ralph is cheap because I honestly don't think he's with it enough to care anymore, but depth isn't just about draft picks and free agency pickups, it's about keeping your veterans who shine when you need leadership and experience. You can't play a full season without key injuries, and if your only plan is hope nobody gets hurt, you're bound to end up where we are right now-- lost.

I am sure you know Ralph Wilson well enough to know his state of mind :wallbash:

Edited by Adam
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Not saying he wouldn't help RIGHT NOW, but are we really remembering how badly Hangartner got his ass handed to him the last couple years? Or how about in camp and preseason this year? He sucked and the Bills had good reason to let him go.

 

He can SNAP the ball better, that's it. But he can't hold the POA very well and certainly can't get on a block and hold it consistently. I'm not saying Levitre's bad snapping is OK, just correctable. His ability to block is unquestioned. Not so with Hangman.

 

GO BILLS!!!

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I'm still OK with the Evans thing. He hasn't played a lick for Baltimore and they are more than disappointed with him. I'll gladly take the 4th. My main issue like everyone else is with the depth. Seems like every other NFL team can plug guys in. We get an injury and it's lights out...we're done. Just pathetic.

 

I get tired of people validating the Evans trade by saying he hasn't played hardly at all this season. For the last time Lee was NOT hurt when we traded him and got hurt in Baltimore. So that does NOT mean he would have also been hurt here and would not have played here. This team could have used him a lot more than we could use a 4th round pick.

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I get tired of people validating the Evans trade by saying he hasn't played hardly at all this season. For the last time Lee was NOT hurt when we traded him and got hurt in Baltimore. So that does NOT mean he would have also been hurt here and would not have played here. This team could have used him a lot more than we could use a 4th round pick.

+1

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Yesterday we got embarrassed on offense because we have no backup center and no receivers getting open. We have a great RB, TE, FB and a decent QB. Hangartner would've stepped in an done a fine job with the QB he's snapped to a thousand times. Levitre would've played guard where he belongs and you would have seen a different game.

 

So we let Evans go for the same amount of money we signed Brad Smith for (about $7 mil for the next two years). If you could switch the two right now, would you? I know I would, I know Fitz would too. All you Evans detractors that say he was washed up can babble all you want, the guy got open and had great hands.

 

Speaking of Brad Smith, if you think you're disappointed in his production now, wait until he fumbles a kickoff return which I guarantee he will if he continues to swing the ball around when he runs like that. I am benching Smith and Spiller immediately and putting Mckelvin back there to return kicks. CJ for punts.

 

I'm not going to say Ralph is cheap because I honestly don't think he's with it enough to care anymore, but depth isn't just about draft picks and free agency pickups, it's about keeping your veterans who shine when you need leadership and experience. You can't play a full season without key injuries, and if your only plan is hope nobody gets hurt, you're bound to end up where we are right now-- lost.

 

Does anybody think the 4th round pick we got for Evans is going to help us? How many 4th round picks do we have out there now helping us?

 

I'm not usually a negative poster but I can't sit here and listen to our management say depth is a problem and then watch them funnel our experienced guys out the back door to save money. Depth is a problem because of your shortsightedness and failure to value the continuity and contributions of our veteran players.

 

You made this bed Nix.

In my opinion he has looked and produced like a fool every since he was given the GM job. The stuff he says doesn't make sense when he talks, and he never really answers anyone's questions.

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I'm not convinced that Nix has made a single good decision.

 

I mean, there was Dareus, but even he hasn't fixed our issues on the line, so I'm not sure how good he is.

 

The good personell moves under nix:

Darius

Barnett

Chandler

Jones/Nelson (let's face it, as marginal as they are at least viable 4th or 5th wrs)

Pears and Hairston (again finds that turned out better than expected)

 

 

Problem is there are a lot of poor ones too:

-Spiller - gotta have first rounders become stars

-Smith - jack of all trades, master of none

-No back up center... Really? Did wood practice with second and third teams too?

-OLB... Merrimen was worth a shot, but no backup plan

 

 

 

I was fine with Evans, poz and lynch hitting the bricks, but they should have tried to get a plaxico type of wr and white looks like a practice squad rb.

 

Problem

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Levitre was terrible with the shotgun snaps, but recall that Hangartner was making decent money and looked like absolute garbage in the preseason. The sin was not bringing in someone else who could play center or at least realizing Levitre could not, not cutting Hangman.

Anyone think that levitre taking the LT snaps the last few weeks might have hurt him yesterday with regards to not having practiced as much at center the last month?

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I get tired of people validating the Evans trade by saying he hasn't played hardly at all this season. For the last time Lee was NOT hurt when we traded him and got hurt in Baltimore. So that does NOT mean he would have also been hurt here and would not have played here. This team could have used him a lot more than we could use a 4th round pick.

But when he has played, he has been ineffective

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Lee Evans ended up getting hurt in the preseason for Baltimore (foot), and there's no way to predict whether he would have suffered the same injury here. If he had stayed here, he may have been fine. It's the luck of the draw, and it's not like he's an injury prone player.

 

Evans was done already. Less than a 1000 yards in his previous two seasons COMBINED. He has gone on to do even less.

 

YES, we need a better #1 WR - like a Lee Evans IN HIS PRIME maybe, not the real Lee Evans of 2011.

 

Getting a 4th for him was a steal - you have to be trying really hard to hate on Nix to convince yourself of anything else.

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Our team would be better with both Evans and Hangartner on the roster. Nothing to argue about here. We are $20M under the cap and we do not have a legit backup center or a veteran WR on the roster. Nix is responsible. If these decisions are made elsewhere in the organization then Nix should walk. Pathetic to even be in this position.

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Our team would be better with both Evans and Hangartner on the roster. Nothing to argue about here. We are $20M under the cap and we do not have a legit backup center or a veteran WR on the roster. Nix is responsible. If these decisions are made elsewhere in the organization then Nix should walk. Pathetic to even be in this position.

Yes. We cannot players go in the hope that draft picks or some other teams castoffs will fill in with no drop off in production. Even if Whitner, Poz and Evans were deemed to not be superstars, they should have been kept (okay, maybe not Poz due to the cost) till it was clear that Searcy, Sheppard and Easley/Jones/Nelson were better. Its inexcusable that these and Hang (with no alternate center) were let go at that time.

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