Von Miller takes pay cut

[billsfan89]

45 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

100% spot on. Right now we are only 1 mill in the hole without touching Allen or Dawkins contracts.  I'm betting on a nice solid FA signing and a move up in the draft.

My hope is that the Bills can have a similar free agency to last off-season where they resign a good chunk of their own free agents and can add a mid-level Connor McGovern type addition and make some smaller depth additions at or close to the minimum.

 

I think given Von’s deal now is less burdensome and they cut a lot of fat on the roster and still have some additional room to work with I like the chances for the Bills to go into the draft with few glaring holes like they did last year.

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

My hope is that the Bills can have a similar free agency to last off-season where they resign a good chunk of their own free agents and can add a mid-level Connor McGovern type addition and make some smaller depth additions at or close to the minimum.

 

I think given Von’s deal now is less burdensome and they cut a lot of fat on the roster and still have some additional room to work with I like the chances for the Bills to go into the draft with few glaring holes like they did last year.

Allen restructures and we have 20 mill in cap room

[Canadian Bills Fan]

[billsfan89]

14 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Allen restructures and we have 20 mill in cap room

Gotta have about 10 million in room for rookies and a few million in season funds for injury. If the Bills want to be able to be players in free agency even at a lower level they have to probably have to go into free agency with 35-40 million in space or at least 30 million in space.

 

There is no doubt they are restructuring Josh but then I am not sure where they can find additional funds. Extending Dawkins seems likely he’s 29 and coming off a great season and at a position that ages well that should free up anywhere from 5-8 million in additional cap space.

 

They can also restructure Knox for 3 million in space and I think Taron Johnson’s deal can be extended to free up a few million. 
 

If they do all 3 moves (Restructure Knox and extend Dawkins and Johnson) after restructuring Josh they should have anywhere between 30-35 million in space which should give them about 15-20 million to play with.

 

The only other move is the restructure or rework Diggs deal. A restructure would free up 13 million in space which would catapult the Bills cap space deep into the 40’s but also make Diggs contract harder to get out of in the future and given that he will be 31 this upcoming season and is coming off a slow end to his season the Bills may want to have an out sooner than later.

 

But if they can get Diggs to do what Von did somehow and get him to free up some 8-10 million in space it would make a huge difference to how they can approach free agency 

[Success]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

Gotta have about 10 million in room for rookies and a few million in season funds for injury. If the Bills want to be able to be players in free agency even at a lower level they have to probably have to go into free agency with 35-40 million in space or at least 30 million in space.

 

There is no doubt they are restructuring Josh but then I am not sure where they can find additional funds. Extending Dawkins seems likely he’s 29 and coming off a great season and at a position that ages well that should free up anywhere from 5-8 million in additional cap space.

 

They can also restructure Knox for 3 million in space and I think Taron Johnson’s deal can be extended to free up a few million. 
 

If they do all 3 moves (Restructure Knox and extend Dawkins and Johnson) after restructuring Josh they should have anywhere between 30-35 million in space which should give them about 15-20 million to play with.

 

The only other move is the restructure or rework Diggs deal. A restructure would free up 13 million in space which would catapult the Bills cap space deep into the 40’s but also make Diggs contract harder to get out of in the future and given that he will be 31 this upcoming season and is coming off a slow end to his season the Bills may want to have an out sooner than later.

 

But if they can get Diggs to do what Von did somehow and get him to free up some 8-10 million in space it would make a huge difference to how they can approach free agency 

 

It might be a little risky w/ Diggs - but man, he started out the season in peak form.  I still think he was more hampered by injury then he or anyone let on.

 

I still think he can play at a high level for 3-4 more years. 

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I came on to be upset about a Miller restructure and instead realized that Beane got him to take a pay cut.

 

Sweet Jesus.

 

Today was brutal but the Bills are back in the black and there are still more levers to pull. 

[Billl]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Super interesting, but I bet those "hard to reach incentives" were attainable in Von's eyes, which is why he agreed to it.

The way that provision works, it could be as simple as recording 5 combined tackles in 2024.  If it’s a number he didn’t reach the previous season, it qualifies.  It’s a way to push money to next year without adding additional years.

[billsfan89]

Just now, Success said:

 

It might be a little risky w/ Diggs - but man, he started out the season in peak form.  I still think he was more hampered by injury then he or anyone let on.

 

I still think he can play at a high level for 3-4 more years. 

 

WR’s usually hit the wall around 32/33 there are exceptions but many WR’s last prime years are around those ages. So I think Diggs at age 31 is looking at 2-3 “prime” years left. 
 

The Bills right now currently do not have an out realistically with Diggs into 2026 where even then they would take a dead cap hit of 13 million. The last year of Diggs deal in 2027 carries a small dead cap hit of just a few million.

 

If the Bills restructure they pretty much eliminate any chance of Diggs having an out in 2026 and probably make the dead cap in 2027 higher. 
 

I really hope they can do something with that deal that frees up some space short term but preserves the ability to get out of the contract in 2026 somehow.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Dillenger4 said:

OMG!! Amazing!! It is a reneg - re negotiate contact full confirmed. That is awesome. His $ is gone forever and it is now incentive ladden. Win-Win for us.

 

And Tre gone makes my year!!!!!!!! Wimpiest Bill ever

You must be a blast at parties

[Billl]

1 hour ago, bills6969 said:

This is some serious cap space maneuvering.

 

how does incentives work with salary cap?  Sounds like Von can earn up to 20m in incentives this year. How does that end up counting against the cap?

If they are considered “likely to be reached” incentives, they count towards the current year.  “Unlikely to be reached” incentives count towards the following season if they are reached.  Incentives are considered likely to be reached if the player would have earned it the previous season.  In Von’s case, an example of “likely to be reached” would be something like putting his shoes on the correct feet or pooping in the potty.

[Logic]

[Richard Noggin]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

If they are considered “likely to be reached” incentives, they count towards the current year.  “Unlikely to be reached” incentives count towards the following season if they are reached.  Incentives are considered likely to be reached if the player would have earned it the previous season.  In Von’s case, an example of “likely to be reached” would be something like putting his shoes on the correct feet or pooping in the potty.

 

Actually funny at the end there, while also raising a question I don't have the answer to: wtf DOES constitute "likely to be reached" vs "unlikely to be reached" incentives for ANYONE, really, but especially for Von Miller coming off consecutive injury-hampered seasons??

[Billl]

1 minute ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Actually funny at the end there, while also raising a question I don't have the answer to: wtf DOES constitute "likely to be reached" vs "unlikely to be reached" incentives for ANYONE, really, but especially for Von Miller coming off consecutive injury-hampered seasons??

Jokes aside, my explanation was accurate.  Performance incentives are categorized as either likely to be earned (LTBE) or not likely to be earned (NLTBE), with the categorization determined by looking at the performance of the player in the prior season. If a player reached a performance threshold in the prior year, the incentive is considered LTBE and counts against the cap. If a player did not reach the performance threshold in the prior year, it is categorized as NLTBE and will not count against the cap.  If a LTBE incentive is not reached, the team gets cap credit the following year.

[nbbillsfan]

Is this pay kind of payout fairly unprecedented?

[NoSaint]

34 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Gotta have about 10 million in room for rookies and a few million in season funds for injury. If the Bills want to be able to be players in free agency even at a lower level they have to probably have to go into free agency with 35-40 million in space or at least 30 million in space.

 

There is no doubt they are restructuring Josh but then I am not sure where they can find additional funds. Extending Dawkins seems likely he’s 29 and coming off a great season and at a position that ages well that should free up anywhere from 5-8 million in additional cap space.

 

They can also restructure Knox for 3 million in space and I think Taron Johnson’s deal can be extended to free up a few million. 
 

If they do all 3 moves (Restructure Knox and extend Dawkins and Johnson) after restructuring Josh they should have anywhere between 30-35 million in space which should give them about 15-20 million to play with.

 

The only other move is the restructure or rework Diggs deal. A restructure would free up 13 million in space which would catapult the Bills cap space deep into the 40’s but also make Diggs contract harder to get out of in the future and given that he will be 31 this upcoming season and is coming off a slow end to his season the Bills may want to have an out sooner than later.

 

But if they can get Diggs to do what Von did somehow and get him to free up some 8-10 million in space it would make a huge difference to how they can approach free agency 

the rookies may be 10m in cap but they are replacing about 7m in guys that will be cut if you don’t even knock out a player that’s above vet minimum with someone you draft. 
 

kincaid and Torrence combined for like 3.5 in cap space last year 

[Richard Noggin]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

Jokes aside, my explanation was accurate.  Performance incentives are categorized as either likely to be earned (LTBE) or not likely to be earned (NLTBE), with the categorization determined by looking at the performance of the player in the prior season. If a player reached a performance threshold in the prior year, the incentive is considered LTBE and counts against the cap. If a player did not reach the performance threshold in the prior year, it is categorized as NLTBE and will not count against the cap.  If a LTBE incentive is not reached, the team gets cap credit the following year.

 

These definitions make a lot of sense; thank you for reiterating. In the case of Von Miller, they almost guarantee the LTBEs will be reached, which helps us understand why the player wouldn't be "offended" by them (and why they will automatically count against the cap)...while also hinting at the NOT unrealistic nature of Miller also potentially reaching at least SOME of those NLTBEs, given the incredibly low floor for where they could be set. 

[Success]

Of all of the news today, this was the biggest (imo).

 

That contract was looming like a cloud over everything.  Feels liberating to see this.

 

[gordong]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

how big of a drop are you anticipating from:

 

tre white to Douglas - solid jump 

 

Morse to next center? Maybe a modest drop at the ol position requiring the least athleticism?

 

a washed poyer to a modest vet safety?

 

if he hits on a first round wr and even mid tier vets at 2-3 positions this team will be better week 1 next year than last year

 

 

pretty sure Rapp is taking Poyers spot as one of the starting safeties. 

[John from Riverside]

What I like is that they built a bunch of incentives into it
 

Give him something to play for

[Richard Noggin]

7 minutes ago, gordong said:

pretty sure Rapp is taking Poyers spot as one of the starting safeties. 

 

That's a pretty safe assumption, and something we saw in the works as last season progressed. Many here have agreed that Rapp's performance seemed to stabilize as he saw more reps down the stretch. Not sure yet how the stats align with this perception, but my own late season observations agree. (I was in the stadium for the last two games, especially, so can't comment meaningfully on those without doing some research. SO difficult to keep up with the minutiae in person.)

[QCity]

I certainly did not see this coming, especially not from Von.

 

Fix the thread title, it is wrong.

[NoSaint]

10 minutes ago, gordong said:

pretty sure Rapp is taking Poyers spot as one of the starting safeties. 

which as a floor is not great but not a catastrophic drop. 
 

Really safety and center are of the most manageable holes to fill so those don’t worry me. We already replaced tre
 

WR and if we can find a little juice on the DL are the two big questions. Kincaid should help with the pass catching question even if WR2 isn’t an instant hit. 
 

it’s really not a terrible spot even with the moves today.

[4thandGoal]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Von Miller is a washed up NFL football player that is a distraction. If Von Miller was a team player he should retire. The Buffalo Bills should have never signed him. Von Miller should have been released today he has no value as a NFL player anymore and certainly can’t help

the Bills other than sitting on his but with a Bills jacket wrapped around himself playing sparely. At least the Chuck Knox over the hill 1980’s Buffalo Bills players like Conrad Dobler had some professional pride and gave the 1980 Bills something. Von Miller has given the Bills nothing total waste of a Bills roster spot. I don’t want to hear about Von Miller’s knee Conrad Dobler had bad knees without the medical technology we have today to repair his knee. Suck it and play Von Miller or retire in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Some one is very grumpy....  Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?    Everyone deals with injuries different---  Von is not the only one that has taken his time with an injury and your idol Conrad Dobler was perhaps one of a few 

[Richard Noggin]

17 minutes ago, gordong said:

pretty sure Rapp is taking Poyers spot as one of the starting safeties. 

 

5 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

That's a pretty safe assumption, and something we saw in the works as last season progressed. Many here have agreed that Rapp's performance seemed to stabilize as he saw more reps down the stretch. Not sure yet how the stats align with this perception, but my own late season observations agree. (I was in the stadium for the last two games, especially, so can't comment meaningfully on those without doing some research. SO difficult to keep up with the minutiae in person.)

 

So it turns out Rapp was inactive for both playoff games?! I guess I remember that now that I've reminded myself via PFR, but how does that align with this recent re-signing?? Someone help me make sense of that super incongruent timeline.

[Mr. WEO]

This signing never made sense.  This guy is at his tail end, won 2 rings with 2 teams….what was his motivation joining the Bills, other than the money?

 

 

[Draconator]

8 minutes ago, 4thandGoal said:

Some one is very grumpy....  Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?    Everyone deals with injuries different---  Von is not the only one that has taken his time with an injury and your idol Conrad Dobler was perhaps one of a few 

@Buffalo Super Fan is a known troll. He only posts to gain attention. 

[boyst]

Could Knox be next? 👀

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Draconator said:

@Buffalo Super Fan is a known troll. He only posts to gain attention. 

I sort of figured it was a bot with terrible grammar.

[Draconator]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

I sort of figured it was a bot with terrible grammar.

that too

[HomeTeam]

3 hours ago, sven233 said:

I don't want to hear one time this season that Von isn't a team player. He didn't have to do this. This is a team first move all the way. Immediate cap savings and he is betting on himself which means he'll be going all out every snap to try & make plays to hit those incentives.

Yea, he had been the whipping dog around here lately but this speaks volumes on making things right. I will be rooting for him even more this year! 

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Draconator said:

that too

Troll bots are the worst. 

[billsfan89]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

This signing never made sense.  This guy is at his tail end, won 2 rings with 2 teams….what was his motivation joining the Bills, other than the money?

 

 

Von was great in 2022 until the somewhat freak injury. And even though he was worthless in 2023 on field he was a big reason why Floyd who was the teams best edge rusher signed on a team friendly deal. The fact that Von reworked his deal is a big positive in my opinion. Hopefully a year further removed from injury he it is at least possible that he can be a contributor this upcoming season. 
 

It was definitely a “win now” move but at least Von is willing to be flexible on his deal.

[HomeTeam]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  Beane doesn't play the game from the sideline.  He's always in the fight, so there will be some big deals, for sure.  There might be a trade up in the first round.  It could be anything.  

 

 

I hope he's learned from the past, I really did not like the Von signing when we made it. 

 

He's has an opportunity to do a soft reset here and have another crack at it. I'm curious how he's going to pivot his approach since their mantra is constantly growing. 

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Von was great in 2022 until the somewhat freak injury. And even though he was worthless in 2023 on field he was a big reason why Floyd who was the teams best edge rusher signed on a team friendly deal. The fact that Von reworked his deal is a big positive in my opinion. Hopefully a year further removed from injury he it is at least possible that he can be a contributor this upcoming season. 
 

It was definitely a “win now” move but at least Von is willing to be flexible on his deal.

vons alternative was to be cut, be signed to a meager deal and look bad 

 

this was simply a good business decision for both sides in the midst of a bad set of alternatives for each 

[bills6969]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

If they are considered “likely to be reached” incentives, they count towards the current year.  “Unlikely to be reached” incentives count towards the following season if they are reached.  Incentives are considered likely to be reached if the player would have earned it the previous season.  In Von’s case, an example of “likely to be reached” would be something like putting his shoes on the correct feet or pooping in the potty.

ok, thanks.  Assuming these incentives are all “likely to be reached” how does this deal result in cap savings when they are going to count toward current year anyway?

[That's No Moon]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

vons alternative was to be cut, be signed to a meager deal and look bad 

 

this was simply a good business decision for both sides in the midst of a bad set of alternatives for each 

Yup, if he had to go out into the market on last year's tape he'd be looking at a small one year prove it deal at best and he and his representation knew it.  This way he makes more money, saves some face, and gets to spin it as being team friendly

1 minute ago, bills6969 said:

ok, thanks.  Assuming these incentives are all “likely to be reached” how does this deal result in cap savings when they are going to count toward current year anyway?

I doubt they are all "likely to be reached".  More like, "possible to be reached if the player isn't washed or broken".

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Yup, if he had to go out into the market on last year's tape he'd be looking at a small one year prove it deal at best and he and his representation knew it.  This way he makes more money, saves some face, and gets to spin it as being team friendly

I doubt they are all "likely to be reached".  More like, "possible to be reached if the player isn't washed or broken".

and truly, I’m good with that. Happy they could find the best of the bad paths forward

 

but I think it was in easy alignment for both sides - not particularly generous of von or cunning of beane. Just the best option for each party happening to match in a bad situation. 

[CA OC Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

vons alternative was to be cut, be signed to a meager deal and look bad 

 

this was simply a good business decision for both sides in the midst of a bad set of alternatives for each 

This is not correct. The cap hit to cut was more than leaving him on the roster. Miller was more going to be cut. He accepted a pay cut which only favors the Bills unless possibly of he reaches incentives. I'd guess he believes in himself and expects to meet them. 

[Warriorspikes51]

44 minutes ago, boyst said:

Could Knox be next? 👀

hmm you live in Nashville right? Knox and his family are there aren’t they?  It would be quite something if he reworked it after just signing last year

Edited March 7 by Warriorspikes51

[GoBills!]

Giants are asking Beane to call Daniel Jones and redo his deal as well. If successful we get a 3rd round pick 

33 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

vons alternative was to be cut, be signed to a meager deal and look bad 

 

this was simply a good business decision for both sides in the midst of a bad set of alternatives for each 

Wonder if any language about off field conduct suspension played a factor, that was a big out for us and all the money.