Thoughts on Kyle Shanahan?

[Southern_Bills]

I mean everything being said about Shanahan was said about Reid before Mahomes showed up.

 

It takes a HC/QB combo. He's had the misfortune of playing Reid/Mahomes and Belichick/Brady.

 

If he gets a great QB or Purdy becomes one everyone will put him in the HoF very quickly.

[NoSaint]

54 minutes ago, Process said:

The Chiefs would have gone for 2 if both teams scored a TD. Players confirmed that after the game. 

what about exchanging fgs? Or no scores?

[Shortchaz]

3-12 on third down. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Said it before and I’ll say it again. He’s the genius in school who struggles for whatever reason in one subject.
Kinda like Einstein who was told by his English teacher he’d never amount to anything.

His one subject is clock management. 

[wppete]

He’s a good coach. The guy just lost in overtime in the SuperBowl. Not bad at all. 

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

I mean everything being said about Shanahan was said about Reid before Mahomes showed up.

 

It takes a HC/QB combo. He's had the misfortune of playing Reid/Mahomes and Belichick/Brady.

 

If he gets a great QB or Purdy becomes one everyone will put him in the HoF very quickly.

wouldn’t be shocked if he gets tied to purdy and it’s a second stop like Reid where he gets his guy. 
 

it’s going to be rough when the niners pay purdy but how do you cut the cord unless you stumble into someome like the pats did Brady 

[FilthyBeast]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Your argument is dumb. The 49ers are in the NFC. Of course he can get to the Superbowl in the NFC. Who does he have to contend with over there?

 

Also, the "what if" scenarios about switching coaches and switching QB's as proof of anything is completely stupid. Nobody knows how those scenarios would pan out. It is useless to bring them up all the time like you and others do. It does not support any argument.

 

I get the point about the 49ers being in the NFC, but the fact remains that Shanahan is an offensive coach that has actually excelled in that area even though you can make the argument his defenses have been the main reason they've had a lot of success in the NFC going back to 2019 including 4 trips to the NFCCG and 2 Super Bowl appearances.

 

McDivisional on the other hand is a defensive head coach, whose defenses have come up as small as possible when it actually matters. And the big difference with him is the only reason he's had success is because of JA17. Again take him out of the equation and give him marginal starters or game manager types like SF has had and the results aren't going to be shocking and it's delusional to think McDivisional would have a job right now or anywhere close to the record he's had without Allen...theres are just facts.

[Process]

17 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You do know that if the 49ers hadn't muffed a punt on their own 16 yd line, or if McCloud had just fallen on the damned ball instead of trying to pick it up, we would likely be having a very different discussion today?  How did Shanahan cause that? 

 

Then, the blocked extra point.  How did Shanahan cause the kicker to kick it low enough to be blocked?

 

Look, X's and O's matter.  But when you have two very good teams playing each other, the Jimmies and the Joes also matter.   Reid had some calls that I thought weren't the best either.  Bottom line, San Francisco committed more unforced errors, including one that gift-wrapped a TD for KC.  I'm ordinarily a big one for saying that you can't change one play, but that fumble on the SF 16 yd line was a game changer for sure.

 

It didn't help Shanahan to lose Greenlaw and go down to their 3rd string RG, either.

 

I'm not trying to make excuses - KC played well and won the game.  My point is that when two very good teams play, the media narrative will invariably paint the winners as the genius dynasty and the losers as bumblers.  But under the hood, it will often turn on a few key plays - that muffed punt fumble; an injury or two; not being prepared to stop Mahomes runs at the end of the game; etc

No I didn't realize that. And I definitely did not point out in my OP that the players made several executional errors. Definitely not. 

 

I think Shanahan made several key mistakes last night, some painfully obvious and bad. 

 

Doesn't need to be this or that. Both players and coaching had a hand in the loss. 

 

Shanahan has now lost three SBs where he had double digits leads. And is developing a history of making questionable decisions on big games. 

 

Something to talk about, it's the offseason. 

[GunnerBill]

He is the best offensive play designer in football and he might be the best in the last 25 years or so that I have been watching the NFL. There are many Shanahan wannabes among his group of mates now coaching across the league but only McVay even comes close and as a play designer he is behind Shanny. 

 

I don't think he is a great Head Coach though. He has a history of making bad decisions in the crunch and falling apart playcalling wise. This is the third Superbowl where he, as an OC or HC, has established a double digit lead by running the ball and then inexplicably got away from it. Honestly the knock on him was ego and it came off as ego to me last night. Was like "you all think Brock is a game manager (he is) well let me show you how good I can make him look in a Superbowl." 

 

2024 is massive for him because when Brock Purdy is earning top 5 Quarterback money I am not sure their window will still be open. 

[Process]

8 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

what about exchanging fgs? Or no scores?

Sure if those scenarios play out then getting the ball first is better. Those scenarios aren't going to happen too often. 

 

If decision A gives you an advantage 80% of the time, and decision B gives you an advantage 20% of the time, seems like there is a pretty clear choice, no?

[Billsfanatic8989]

59 minutes ago, mannc said:

My working theory is that Shanahan didn't know the overtime rules, either.  It's the only explanation for that bizarre decision to take the ball first.

Can you imagine if SF scored a TD, everyone runs out onto the field. Suddenly, refs move everyone away and tell them KC still gets an offensive possession. Then, the Chiefs go down and scre a TD and get the 2 point conversion to take the game. 

 

What an embarrassing moment that would be. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Process said:

Sure if those scenarios play out then getting the ball first is better. Those scenarios aren't going to happen too often. 

 

If decision A gives you an advantage 80% of the time, and decision B gives you an advantage 20% of the time, seems like there is a pretty clear choice, no?

 

It comes down to this for me:

 

Team 1 cannot win the game on their possession. It is impossible. The only way Team 1 can guarantee Team 2 can't win it on their possession is a TD and a successful 2 pointer. 

 

Which means the odds pretty good that when Team 2 gets the ball they have a chance to win it on that possession. 

 

Worrying about the 3rd possession is a red herring IMO. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

I think he would be the best OC in the game. A HC is responsible for alot more though. 

 

He is definitely overrated. I wouldn't want him as Bills HC. 

 

SF is stuck with him. They can't fire him. So do they just hope he calls a great 60 minute game someday?

 

I've ripped Belichick all season. But last night is exactly why you would want him as your HC in a huge game. 

 

I thought Reid was more important than Mahomes yesterday. Mahomes was very good. Not spectacular. Reid and Spagnola (deserves hof as a DC) were terrific 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12 by Billsfanatic8989

[FilthyBeast]

4 minutes ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

I think he would be the best OC in the game. A HC is responsible for alot more though. 

 

He is definitely overrated. I wouldn't want him as Bills HC. 

 

This is the exact reason why this franchise is never going to win anything, especially if Terry Pegula believe McDivisional and Shannahan are one in the same or McD is actually better....

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Its a shame because they were gashing them in the run but they got stuffed for no gain on 2nd and 6 just before 2 min warning.  Had they gotten more yards there they probably run again on 3rd down and at least force Chiefs to use a TO.

Could he have had a better play on 3rd down? Nobody knows. Great play call by Spags. 

A first down there of course wins the game. Hard to fault him for the 2nd down call just because it didn't work.

What was so stupid was taking the ball first in OT!!! No way you are stopping KC with four downs to get 10 and no clock to worry about. Stoooopid!!!!!!

[Billsfanatic8989]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

 

This is the exact reason why this franchise is never going to win anything, especially if Terry Pegula believe McDivisional and Shannahan are one in the same or McD is actually better....

Shanahan is better.

 

But....after seeing him screw up so many big games, who is to say he suddenly changes as our HC? 

 

Now...maybe Allen overrides his dumb calls and takes over himself. 

 

But idk...

[FilthyBeast]

Just now, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Shanahan is better.

 

But....after seeing him screw up so many big games, who is to say he suddenly changes as our HC? 

 

Now...maybe Allen overrides his dumb calls and takes over himself. 

 

But idk...

 

I just look at the eye test....and yes Shanahan has made some ridiculously questionable coaching decisions but if this guy can get to 2 superbowls and nearly win them with the likes of Jimmy G and Purdy just think of what he'd do here with JA17.

 

And again, if the argument is that Sean McDivisional is a top 10-15 head coach in this league at best (which mine is and always will be) that means there's more than a few guys out there that could do better....shanahan just being one of them.

[Billsfanatic8989]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Its a shame because they were gashing them in the run but they got stuffed for no gain on 2nd and 6 just before 2 min warning.  Had they gotten more yards there they probably run again on 3rd down and at least force Chiefs to use a TO.

Could he have had a better play on 3rd down? Nobody knows. Great play call by Spags. 

A first down there of course wins the game. Hard to fault him for the 2nd down call just because it didn't work.

What was so stupid was taking the ball first in OT!!! No way you are stopping KC with four downs to get 10 and no clock to worry about. Stoooopid!!!!!!

Yup.

 

KC having 4 downs is an automatic TD for them. If you kick it away, they will likely use three downs. Either way, you know what needs to be done on your drive. 

 

The fact he barely knew any of this tells me his team would have ran onto the field to celebrate a go ahead, not GW, TD. It also tells me one team was clearly better prepared for all situations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HOUSE]

No, absolutely not

[Billsfanatic8989]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

 

I just look at the eye test....and yes Shanahan has made some ridiculously questionable coaching decisions but if this guy can get to 2 superbowls and nearly win them with the likes of Jimmy G and Purdy just think of what he'd do here with JA17.

 

And again, if the argument is that Sean McDivisional is a top 10-15 head coach in this league at best (which mine is and always will be) that means there's more than a few guys out there that could do better....shanahan just being one of them.

Yeah I think Allen would change things. Because he has the authority to audible etc. 

 

 

[NoSaint]

30 minutes ago, Process said:

Sure if those scenarios play out then getting the ball first is better. Those scenarios aren't going to happen too often. 

 

If decision A gives you an advantage 80% of the time, and decision B gives you an advantage 20% of the time, seems like there is a pretty clear choice, no?

I would say that 80% is completely made up. 
 

also to your argument, I’d say it varies widely based on how large of an advantage. 

[Southern_Bills]

42 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

wouldn’t be shocked if he gets tied to purdy and it’s a second stop like Reid where he gets his guy. 
 

it’s going to be rough when the niners pay purdy but how do you cut the cord unless you stumble into someome like the pats did Brady 

 

Agreed, like Tua and Miami, they are going to be forced to pay. It will be the demise of the McDaniel Era most likely, but they can't just cut him with no backup plan at QB

[Augie]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

So Kyle is basically the O version of Sean

 

I bet a bunch of 49er fans want to fire him because he keeps losing in the Super Bowl. 

[HappyDays]

He's taken two limited backup QBs to a Super Bowl and would have won last night's if not for inexplicable player mistakes on special teams. He is easily the 2nd best head coach in the NFL.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

2024 is massive for him because when Brock Purdy is earning top 5 Quarterback money I am not sure their window will still be open. 

 

Do you really think Purdy will earn top 5 money? Surely GMs can see plainly that he is too limited to ever be more than a bridge or backup QBs. His limitations were on display last night. I don't believe they'll be fooled by his stats.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Do you really think Purdy will earn top 5 money? Surely GMs can see plainly that he is too limited to ever be more than a bridge or backup QBs. His limitations were on display last night. I don't believe they'll be fooled by his stats.

 

Just the way the QB market works. I don't think he will re-set the market but at the point he signs I think he will go top 5 AAV, yep. Daniel Jones went top 10 when he signed. Purdy has a lot of wins a Superbowl appearance. Just the way the market is.

[Matt_In_NH]

This board would fire him in an instant

[BBFL]

47 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

He's taken two limited backup QBs to a Super Bowl and would have won last night's if not for inexplicable player mistakes on special teams. He is easily the 2nd best head coach in the NFL.

I posted this earlier in the thread but player mistakes are something overlooked. Especially Nick Bosa…

 

How this guy is getting a pass for his play on the final drive to lose the game is insane. Especially, again, for the highest paid defensive player in NFL history @ $34m a year.

 

Watch that drive and focus on him. Literally did everything wrong and opposite to how he played the full regulation. 

[Process]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Do you really think Purdy will earn top 5 money? Surely GMs can see plainly that he is too limited to ever be more than a bridge or backup QBs. His limitations were on display last night. I don't believe they'll be fooled by his stats.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Dak and Tua. I don't think Purdy is going to accept less than those guys considering he put of similar number plus played in a Superbowl.

[Albany,n.y.]

52 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

He's taken two limited backup QBs to a Super Bowl and would have won last night's if not for inexplicable player mistakes on special teams. He is easily the 2nd best head coach in the NFL.

So McDermott is #1? 😀

[GunnerBill]

50 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

He's taken two limited backup QBs to a Super Bowl and would have won last night's if not for inexplicable player mistakes on special teams. He is easily the 2nd best head coach in the NFL.

 

He has done that by his play design. Not by his Head Coaching accumen. He is an all time great offensive play designer. He might be the the GOAT, he is DEFINITELY the best Quarterback hider of all time.  But I don't think he is top 5 in terms of game management, attention to detail or in game adjustments. 

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

But I don't think he is top 5 in terms of game management, attention to detail or in game adjustments. 

 

I agree. But it is hard to argue with his results. Some would say Andy Reid is not top 5 in terms of game management but his offensive scheme/play calling and ability to get the most out of his players more than makes up for it.

 

Give Shanahan a real QB and he'll become the next version of Andy Reid IMO.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

I agree. But it is hard to argue with his results. Some would say Andy Reid is not top 5 in terms of game management but his offensive scheme/play calling and ability to get the most out of his players more than makes up for it.

 

Give Shanahan a real QB and he'll become the next version of Andy Reid IMO.

 

Reid is the best play caller. Shanny is the best play designer. But Reid is a better culture builder and organisational leader (whatever people think of his culture). 

 

Kyle has as many losing seasons in 7 years as Andy has in 25. He isn't close to Andy Reid as a Head Coach IMO.

[billsbackto81]

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

My working theory is that Shanahan didn't know the overtime rules, either.  It's the only explanation for that bizarre decision to take the ball first.

I still think there’s some merit to it…obviously didn’t work out that way though and the players not knowing the rules is a huge red flag against Shanahan regardless  so this is not to defend him at all lol 

 

if it goes fg-fg you win on just another fg.  And if it goes td-td the other team is gonna go for two and you’ve got a shot to stop it for the win.  I think two point conversions are successful a little less than half the time 

you can def make the case for going for that fourth and medium rather than settling for the fg but that’s pretty low percentage too with how good that chiefs defense has been

I think they were just destined to lose once they didn’t connect on that third down play lol 

 

the other team knows they need a fg and are in four down territory the way it worked out but it’s only up until fg range more than likely.  

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

He's taken two limited backup QBs to a Super Bowl and would have won last night's if not for inexplicable player mistakes on special teams. He is easily the 2nd best head coach in the NFL.

Started out in agreement but idk that they would have won if not for that special teams play.  49ers just had no answers in that second half.  Their first three drives after halftime they totaled -3 yards and the defense started to gas out 

[julian]

Matt Ryan Jimmy G and Brock Purdy, the fact he got to a Super Bowl with these QBs they should have a separate shrine at the HOF for him.

 

 Great offensive mind, questionable big game decisions.

[The Jokeman]

I'm not sure he's a great leader. Probably best suited at an OC but needs a HC that can call in him on bad decisions in game. 

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, Process said:

The Chiefs would have gone for 2 if both teams scored a TD. Players confirmed that after the game. 

 

why

[nedboy7]

Not much point in discussing a coach who doesn't routinely win the SB on here.  He sucks.  Fire him.  Choker.  Shanadipshit. 

[BBFL]

59 minutes ago, julian said:

Matt Ryan Jimmy G and Brock Purdy, the fact he got to a Super Bowl with these QBs they should have a separate shrine at the HOF for him.

 

 Great offensive mind, questionable big game decisions.

Come on man. Matt Ryan was legit. Definitely a quality starter for a while in the league.