NFL MVP

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Didn’t the Bills win streak down the stretch happen right after they started running the ball more?

Three things Brady did when he took over - he took the ball out of Josh’s hands and ran it more, he simplified the offense, he allowed Josh to have designed QB runs. Josh’s Bills were 6-1 against playoff teams, but 5-5 against teams that missed the postseason.
 

Despite his total number of TDs, for much of the year Josh struggled with inconsistency; we wondered why the offense looked broken, why everything felt so difficult. He also couldn’t escape the turnover narrative he brought unto himself.

 

I didn’t feel that Josh had an MVP type of season. Others shouldn’t feel that he did either. Did Lamar deserve the award? I don’t think so, but it’s hard for voters to go against a QB who makes exciting plays for a #1 seed that beats down other top contenders. 6-2 against playoff teams including five blowouts, 7-1 against non-playoff teams. He and the Ravens were the model of consistency all year. That’s why he won the award, all the other chatter about his skin color is nonsense.

[Einstein]

 

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think in this era it is pretty clear the award almost always goes to the QB of a #1 seed unless someone else really has been dominant - Matt Ryan in his year and Manning in a year where I think he was the #2 seed being the obvious examples.  

 

More than that, right? I think something like 4 or 5 of the winners from 2008 to 2020 were not the 1 seed if I recall correctly.

[BarleyNY]

7 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Three things Brady did when he took over - he took the ball out of Josh’s hands and ran it more, he simplified the offense, he allowed Josh to have designed QB runs. Josh’s Bills were 6-1 against playoff teams, but 5-5 against teams that missed the postseason.
 

Despite his total number of TDs, for much of the year Josh struggled with inconsistency; we wondered why the offense looked broken, why everything felt so difficult. He also couldn’t escape the turnover narrative he brought unto himself.

 

I didn’t feel that Josh had an MVP type of season. Others shouldn’t feel that he did either. Did Lamar deserve the award? I don’t think so, but it’s hard for voters to go against a QB who makes exciting plays for a #1 seed that beats down other top contenders. 6-2 against playoff teams including five blowouts, 7-1 against non-playoff teams. He and the Ravens were the model of consistency all year. That’s why he won the award, all the other chatter about his skin color is nonsense.

Agreed. This season MVP seemed like a war of attrition. There was a list of 6-10 players and, gradually, all but Lamar crossed themselves off of it with a poor performance. Those playing the “reverse racism” card are just showing us their character. 

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Three things Brady did when he took over - he took the ball out of Josh’s hands and ran it more, he simplified the offense, he allowed Josh to have designed QB runs. Josh’s Bills were 6-1 against playoff teams, but 5-5 against teams that missed the postseason.
 

Despite his total number of TDs, for much of the year Josh struggled with inconsistency; we wondered why the offense looked broken, why everything felt so difficult. He also couldn’t escape the turnover narrative he brought unto himself.

 

I didn’t feel that Josh had an MVP type of season. Others shouldn’t feel that he did either. Did Lamar deserve the award? I don’t think so, but it’s hard for voters to go against a QB who makes exciting plays for a #1 seed that beats down other top contenders. 6-2 against playoff teams including five blowouts, 7-1 against non-playoff teams. He and the Ravens were the model of consistency all year. That’s why he won the award, all the other chatter about his skin color is nonsense.

 

 But is it the Most Consistent Award or Most Valuable?

 

It’s valuable - so why do we keep changing what words mean?

 

Thats more a question for the voters than you.

 

No player is more valuable to their team than Allen. None. Mahomes left the AFFCCG last year with an injury and his backup led a 99 yard TD drive the very next drive. And Tyler Huntley won 3 of the 5 games he played for the Ravens last year when Lamar was faking his injury. And Jake Browning went on a tear with the Burrow-less Browns.

 

The Bills would implode without Allen.

[The Wiz]

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

On 2/8/2024 at 7:47 AM, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Correct.  The only thing lacking is that all candidates should be required to dress in costume, and sing a song on 'The Masked Singer - NFL - MVP' special.

🤔

 

immobile to “I’m the Batman”.

[strive_for_five_guy]

5 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

Do we know who gave him the one vote?

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

More than that, right? I think something like 4 or 5 of the winners from 2008 to 2020 were not the 1 seed if I recall correctly.

I haven't crunched the numbers specifically but the point that it is a pretty consistent pattern is clear I think. If you aren't the QB of a 1 seed you have to have had pretty much a "beyond question" dominant type MVP season. 

[Warcodered]

12 hours ago, Roundybout said:

So Joe Flacco had a good couple of games and then returns to ass and he gets the award over a guy who died on the field 

The Playoffs may have made these awards look stupid as hell in a few categories.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

She’s probably one of the most deserving on the list lol. I’m not sure I understand Dianna Russini having a vote. Isn’t she just a rumor reporter ala Schefter? I don’t think I’ve ever seen her provide analysis but maybe I just haven’t noticed.

Except she is a blockhead.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Do we know who gave him the one vote?

 

Aaron Schatz

[Brand J]

23 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 But is it the Most Consistent Award or Most Valuable?

 

It’s valuable - so why do we keep changing what words mean?

 

Thats more a question for the voters than you.

 

No player is more valuable to their team than Allen. None. Mahomes left the AFFCCG last year with an injury and his backup led a 99 yard TD drive the very next drive. And Tyler Huntley won 3 of the 5 games he played for the Ravens last year when Lamar was faking his injury. And Jake Browning went on a tear with the Burrow-less Browns.

 

The Bills would implode without Allen.

No, it’s not an award for most consistent, nor is it an award for the QB who captains the #1 team, even though both appear that way on the surface. I think the media was burning to get behind someone, anyone for the MVP. There were about 6-7 names being thrown around all throughout the year and slowly many of them started to play themselves off the list. Because the Ravens were the only team not to go through a real period of struggle, Lamar got it almost by default. He didn’t play himself out of it like the others.  

[DCOrange]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Except she is a blockhead.

She’s incredibly smart and one of the few on that panel that actually takes it seriously. 

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 But is it the Most Consistent Award or Most Valuable?

 

It’s valuable - so why do we keep changing what words mean?

 

Thats more a question for the voters than you.

 

No player is more valuable to their team than Allen. None. Mahomes left the AFFCCG last year with an injury and his backup led a 99 yard TD drive the very next drive. And Tyler Huntley won 3 of the 5 games he played for the Ravens last year when Lamar was faking his injury. And Jake Browning went on a tear with the Burrow-less Browns.

 

The Bills would implode without Allen.

 

I think getting really fixated on the words is a red herring. It is the NFL's player of the season award.  

 

As for the Bills imploding without Josh, depends who the Quarterback in his place is. And Huntley was 2-3 last year (and is 3-7 over the last three years). 

[colin]

in the nfl, especially now, the qb is most important guy on the team.  you can argue that great coaching and a decent back up will mean the qb1 is less valuable (like how the back up scored a near 100 yard drive for kc vs jax in the playoffs last season!) but for any non qb to get that award, the impact on winning of that non qb going down vs the qb doing down has to be stand out.  so like, if hill drops is his team worse off than if tua drops?  maybe, but hill clearly isn't as important to his team winning as lamar is for the ravens, or allen for us.

 

my thing w lamar is that he is so not clutch.  his back up nearly beat cinci 2 times last year, and lamar lays the same egg at the end of every playoffs.  he's just too limited of a player.

[SCBills]

So glad Allen showed NFL Honors the disrespect it deserves. 

[TheBrownBear]

3 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Dude, Josh collects records like Pokémon cards.  Shall we book a weekend in the conference room to go over the list?  He also already has more gear being displayed in the HoF than most people already in the HoF.

Josh is sort of the NFL version of Russell Westbrook.  Puts up ridiculous stats, but never quite gets their due (granted, Westbrook eventually got an MVP) because they commit lots of turnovers, have a style of play that isn't completely orthodox, and never (or not yet) win the big one.  

[SaulGoodman]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

 But is it the Most Consistent Award or Most Valuable?

 

It’s valuable - so why do we keep changing what words mean?

 

Thats more a question for the voters than you.

 

No player is more valuable to their team than Allen. None. Mahomes left the AFFCCG last year with an injury and his backup led a 99 yard TD drive the very next drive. And Tyler Huntley won 3 of the 5 games he played for the Ravens last year when Lamar was faking his injury. And Jake Browning went on a tear with the Burrow-less Browns.

 

The Bills would implode without Allen.

 

Henne's 23 yds in that game convinced you that Mahomes isn't as valuable to his team? 🤣

 

In a slightly larger sample in 2020, Henne had a 58 rating and almost lost the divisional vs the Browns despite being handed a 12 pt lead in the 2nd half. 

 

We haven't seen the Bills without Allen, but I don't see why another QB couldn't do okay in that offense. Good running game, at least 4 good receiving options, solid tackles....other than a slightly better WR 3 and maybe an upgrade at guard, what are they missing?

 

Edited February 9 by SaulGoodman

[LABILLBACKER]

54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I haven't crunched the numbers specifically but the point that it is a pretty consistent pattern is clear I think. If you aren't the QB of a 1 seed you have to have had pretty much a "beyond question" dominant type MVP season. 

Yes, the current formula is this:

1. You must be a qb on a #1 seed

2. You must have less than 10 ints

3.  Qbr over 65 and Qb rating over 100.

Total yards, total tds are inconsequential. 

[Einstein]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think getting really fixated on the words is a red herring. It is the NFL's player of the season award.  

 

Words mean something. And it meant Most Valuable for 60 years of NFL history, before the talking heads took over voting.

 

Before the last 10 years, it truly was a value award.

 

Favre won it 3 times with 18+ turnovers and once with 21 turnovers, because he was the simm most VALUABLE. Not most consistent.

 

Esiason won it with 18 turnovers. Montana won it with 18 turnovers.

 

Again, it used to be most valuable. Now it’s most consistent - apparently. Which is not the same thing.

 

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 And Huntley was 2-3 last year (and is 3-7 over the last three years). 

 

3-2 last season. Not 2-3.

[Warcodered]

13 hours ago, The Wiz said:

one vote.....   ONE.

 

 

Have to think 49 people felt hell a awkward as the playoffs played out. Like come on this is going to look so stupid.

13 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Allen finished 5th in MVP voting apparently.

 

As a side note, man it seems like the people that vote on this are really sick of Mahomes.

Mahomes getting votes at all is purely name recognition this year, his regular season this year didn't deserve anything to do with MVP.

[Warriorspikes51]

Have 5 finalists and let the fans vote

[TheBrownBear]

9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

The Bills won, but he was pretty bad for almost all of that stretch outside of the PIT game. We had to win ugly against some really weak teams in the Chargers and Patriots. He was awful in the air vs Dallas, but that was easily forgiven because we completely steamrolled them on the ground. Despite us getting the win against KC, he didn't shine there either despite KC giving us every opportunity to run away with that game.
 

He was mediocre against NE and LA.  He was fine in the Dallas game. He wasn't asked to do much and I recall their being some drops that effected his passing percentage.  Despite a couple of turnovers, he was GREAT against Miami and at KC.  Watch the KC game again.  Their D line abused us and Josh was running for his life on about 75% of his dropbacks.  BUT...Lamar did have two great marquee games down the stretch against SF and Miami that solidified his candidacy.  So I don't really have too much of a problem with Lamar winning, but I do think Allen is consistently undervalued by the national press.

[The Jokeman]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Have to think 49 people felt hell a awkward as the playoffs played out. Like come on this is going to look so stupid.

Mahomes getting votes at all is purely name recognition this year, his regular season this year didn't deserve anything to do with MVP.

Mahomes had more passing TDs than Mr. MVP. 

Just now, TheBrownBear said:

He was mediocre against NE and LA.  He was fine in the Dallas game. He wasn't asked to do much and I recall their being some drops that effected his passing percentage.  Despite a couple of turnovers, he was GREAT against Miami and at KC.  Watch the KC game again.  Their D line abused us and Josh was running for his life on about 75% of his dropbacks.  BUT...Lamar did have two great marquee games down the stretch against SF and Miami that solidified his candidacy.  So I don't really have too much of a problem with Lamar winning, but I do think Allen is consistently undervalued by the national press.

Lamar had three games with 0 TDs scored (passing and rushing) and his team only lost 1 of those games, 17-10 to the Steelers.

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yes, the current formula is this:

1. You must be a qb on a #1 seed

2. You must have less than 10 ints

3.  Qbr over 65 and Qb rating over 100.

Total yards, total tds are inconsequential. 

 

Certainly feels that way.

19 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

3-2 last season. Not 2-3.

 

No he was 2-3. Wins v Pittsburgh and Atlanta. Losses to Pittsburgh and Cleveland plus Cincy in the playoffs.

Edited February 9 by GunnerBill

[Herc11]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Meh-  1 int.  1 FF.  0 FR.  If someone thinks he’s the team mvp, they need a clue. 

Their defense is the most valuable PLAYER.  Got it

That's exactly my point.

[SaulGoodman]

30 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Have to think 49 people felt hell a awkward as the playoffs played out. Like come on this is going to look so stupid.

Mahomes getting votes at all is purely name recognition this year, his regular season this year didn't deserve anything to do with MVP.

 

Mahomes didn't deserve MVP this year, but he played better than the numbers indicate. 2nd in the league in percentage of on-target passes (behind Dak), but his WRs can't catch. 

 

Frankly, I don't see why Prescott didn't get more consideration for MVP, or even win it over Lamar. I don't think he's anything special, but he put up the best stats this year. 

Edited February 9 by SaulGoodman

[BaaadThingsMan]

What a Joke

[LABILLBACKER]

10 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Mahomes didn't deserve MVP this year, but he played better than the numbers indicate. 2nd in the league in on-target passes (behind Dak), but his WRs can't catch. 

 

Frankly, I don't see why Prescott didn't get more consideration for MVP, or even win it over Lamar. I don't think he's anything special, but he put up the best stats this year. 

I honestly think the way Lamar and Dak have looked in the playoffs will now factor in toward future mvp voting.  Josh's playoff stats are amazing albeit his defense let's him down every year.  And understanding there's probably a large number of AP voters who didn't pick Josh panning out from Wyoming.  This ridiculous narrative will be very difficult to wash off people no matter how many unbelievable plays 17 makes.

[HappyDays]

 

[Brand J]

I wish Josh had a defense that was as clutch as KC’s. Even in the years they were statistically middle of the pack KC’s defense always seemed to make plays at the right time, credit to Spagnuolo. The same can be said for Cincy’s defense and their architect Anarumo. What can we say about Buffalo’s…?
 

Prior to this year, Allen was thought to be the one QB of the three who had enjoyed a dominant defense for the majority of his career, since that’s how it read on paper. Any Bills fan could tell you that Josh has never had a dominate defense and to that point, watching how easy it was for KC to move the ball and score against Baltimore before their offense turtled up and took their foot off the gas, I’m not sure a dominant defense is a thing in the NFL anymore. It just needs to make clutch stops at certain, opportune times. If Josh had that, I’m sure he’d have at least one SB ring by this point.

[Warcodered]

27 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Mahomes had more passing TDs than Mr. MVP. 

Yeah and Lamar shouldn't have won it either, but his whole reason was #1 seed and fewer turnovers, Mahomes had the 3rd seed and was what 2 turnovers behind Allen. So he literally had none of that going for him this regular season and he can join the ranks of the 9 other people who had more passing TDs than him.

 

30 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

Mahomes didn't deserve MVP this year, but he played better than the numbers indicate. 2nd in the league in on-target passes (behind Dak), but his WRs can't catch.

and Allen had the worst turnover luck in the league not that anyone cared.

[HappyDays]

46 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Words mean something. And it meant Most Valuable for 60 years of NFL history, before the talking heads took over voting.

 

This is the new definition of MVP:

 

 

[strive_for_five_guy]

8 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I wish Josh had a defense that was as clutch as KC’s. Even in the years they were statistically middle of the pack KC’s defense always seemed to make plays at the right time, credit to Spagnuolo. The same can be said for Cincy’s defense and their architect Anarumo. What can we say about Buffalo’s…?
 

Prior to this year, Allen was thought to be the one QB of the three who had enjoyed a dominant defense for the majority of his career, since that’s how it read on paper. Any Bills fan could tell you that Josh has never had a dominate defense and to that point, watching how easy it was for KC to move the ball and score against Baltimore before their offense turtled up and took their foot off the gas, I’m not sure a dominant defense is a thing in the NFL anymore. It just needs to make clutch stops at certain, opportune times. If Josh had that, I’m sure he’d have at least one SB ring by this point.

Given track record, I’ve come to believe Spags is one of the great D coordinators over the past 20 years.  In a one game setting, he seems to be as good as anyone in scheming something up.  Aside from Mahomes and Kelce, he’s the other reason I like the Chiefs to beat the 49ers this weekend.  He’ll do something to make Brock Purdy’s life hell.

[HappyDays]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I am not sure I think there was media bias, but there was definitely media groupthink - and that happens basically every year with MVP. By December there is a consensus who it should be and then everyone votes accordingly. 

 

It's definitely groupthink and laziness. Has nothing to do with race. If the 49ers had blown out the Ravens in December, Purdy would be the MVP right now which would arguably be an even more ridiculous outcome.

 

Ultimately MVP voters just don't want to make a stir. Look no further than the response to Aaron Schatz's vote to understand why. He is getting blasted all over Twitter. Stephen A Smith criticized him on live TV. Sports media is a circus and no one wants to make themselves the clown. I commend Aaron Schatz for sticking to his process and voting based on what his objective analysis revealed, but unfortunately he is the only MVP voter that followed that process.

[Einstein]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

No he was 2-3. Wins v Pittsburgh and Atlanta. Losses to Pittsburgh and Cleveland plus Cincy in the playoffs.

 

3-2. Playoff losses don’t count in MVP voting.

 

Unless you’re playing the semantics game where you don’t count the Denver game because Lamar played the first 4 snaps before Huntley played the final 62 snaps.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

17 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Given track record, I’ve come to believe Spags is one of the great D coordinators over the past 20 years.  In a one game setting, he seems to be as good as anyone in scheming something up.  Aside from Mahomes and Kelce, he’s the other reason I like the Chiefs to beat the 49ers this weekend.  He’ll do something to make Brock Purdy’s life hell.

The niners don't stand a chance.  Spags will make Purdy's life miserable.  Kelce will push off like Gronk and always be open.  KC's oline will be allowed to hold all day.  Mahomes will scramble and make off script plays. And the extra $350 million dollars that the NFL has generated since Swift hooked up with Travis will be fulfilled. Mahomes will become the NFL's new Brady love child. And everyone else will just be chasing.  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

3-2. Playoff losses don’t count in MVP voting.

 

Unless you’re playing the semantics game where you don’t count the Denver game because Lamar played the first 4 snaps before Huntley played the final 62 snaps.

 

 

Fair he played a lot at Denver. But I wouldn't say their 10 points scored there particularly strengthens the argument. They are 3-7 in games Lamar hasn't started over 3 seasons. Lamar IS very valuable to Baltimore. I say that as someone who didn't think he was the right MVP.

[Einstein]

27 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is the new definition of MVP:

 

 

 

Yep. And it’s stupid.

 

The voters have changed the meaning of Most Valuable Player.

[34-78-83]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

She’s incredibly smart and one of the few on that panel that actually takes it seriously. 

She literally laughed and then screamed in disgust and went on a tirade about it when Josh was drafted. Have you not seen this?