WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Good write-up. That 2nd tier is not that inspiring, although Darnell Mooney would be intriguing. I would really love to make a play for Calvin Ridley, but you might be right that he could be too expensive. He's the wild card for me. His projected AAV is $4M higher than Gabe Davis...and if you told me that we'd get someone like Ridley for $4M more per year I'd usually call that more than fair compensation for the difference in talent. Mooney is the one where I think price and output lines up for an Emmanuel Sanders like year while we would bring a draft pick up to speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 30 minutes ago, 947 said: Mooney & Samuel are Slot WRs, we do not need that. Shakir is a very good Slot & will likely be for years to come. What we need is an outside WR. I think we draft that guy in the 1st, but we also need a bargain-priced vet for that role. The ones who fit that bill are Chark & Josh Reynolds. Chark would probably be the cheaper of the 2, but I'd be ok with either. Samuel is exclusively a slot guy. Mooney is around 50/50 in terms of slot vs. wideout. I wouldn’t mind Mooney if his market is cheap but there’s a decent chance he’s a downgrade from Gabe overall. Definitely more speed though. Edited January 24 by DCOrange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Mango said: I agree that he won’t see the end of his contract. Everybody in the building knows it. But restructuring basically guarantees we get close.. Out of pocket so keeping this simple with pre-June cuts. 2024 is the only time cutting/trading Diggs hurt us currently. Restructuring ties the teams hands and kicks the can down the road. The current situation is below. I think (ouch) a restructure ties us together until 2026. 2024: -$3M net cap 2025: $5M 2026: $15M 2027: $18M I don't disagree. My only contention is that I believe Diggs can be a contributing feature for at least the next two years. His route running is still excellent and he can still be dangerous, even if I no longer think he's an elite player so I am not in a hurry to jettison him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Bob Woods has a $9.75M cap hit and only $4.75M in dead money. If the Texans move on, could we bring him back cheap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Samuel is exclusively a slot guy. Mooney is around 50/50 in terms of slot vs. wideout. I wouldn’t mind Mooney if his market is cheap but there’s a decent chance he’s a downgrade from Gabe overall. Mooney would be my "poor man's Gabe" to have a rookie have to fight to take the snaps from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 3 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: I don't disagree. My only contention is that I believe Diggs can be a contributing feature for at least the next two years. His route running is still excellent and he can still be dangerous, even if I no longer think he's an elite player so I am not in a hurry to jettison him. I said entering this year if they want to keep Diggs producing at a high level into his 30s move him into the slot. Let him cook. How long we keep Diggs is up to Diggs. Edited January 24 by Buffalo_Stampede 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 6 minutes ago, Mango said: I agree that he won’t see the end of his contract. Everybody in the building knows it. But restructuring basically guarantees we get close.. Out of pocket so keeping this simple with pre-June cuts. 2024 is the only time cutting/trading Diggs hurt us currently. Restructuring ties the teams hands and kicks the can down the road. The current situation is below. I think (ouch) a restructure ties us together until 2026. 2024: -$3M net cap 2025: $5M 2026: $15M 2027: $18M I wouldn't restructure him again. You watch how many fans on this board will want to do that. I'm not sure what Beane decides on this issue, I give it a 50/50 shot on one more restructure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruffalo Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 R1 WR if there are any of the consensus R1 guys left on the board. R3 WR. R6 WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 36 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Hard part for a rookie WR is route running and learning a new playbook. Route running is key because a lot of these WRs in college don’t run many routes. Also understanding coverages. The announcers pointed out a great play by Rice for the Chiefs where he sat down on a zone rather than taking it up field. Said earlier in the year he doesn’t read that coverage. Once again….not brain surgery. Not even close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Draft and maybe aign possible WR5/6 WRs for 1.7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I wouldn't restructure him again. You watch how many fans on this board will want to do that. I'm not sure what Beane decides on this issue, I give it a 50/50 shot on one more restructure. Agreed. Even if I am in favor of having him stick around longer than some others may want, I think that restructure is one of the last levers on a long list of levers Beane can pull to clear space. Break glass in case of emergency. Otherwise, keep the flexibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, SoCal Deek said: Once again….not brain surgery. Not even close. Playing WR is pretty difficult. I definitely wouldn’t call it an easy position although rookies are having a lot of success lately. So yes it’s probably safe to say that a rookie should come in and have a very productive season with Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I said entering this year if they want to keep Diggs producing at a high level into his 30s move him into the slot. Let him cook. How long we keep Diggs is up to Diggs. Yeah. I remember the rejuvenation that Larry Fitzgerald had in 2015-17 when they moved him inside. Superb route running works very well over the middle of the field, and we've put Diggs into the slot before. It can work. But we'd need a replacement (or two) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen2Moulds Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 40 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I refuse to believe that catching a football is brain surgery. Just draft a guy with the physical tools and have Josh throw him the football! I couldn’t care less whether anyone considers him a #1 or #2. Wish it was that simple, but WRs need to read coverage as well, in order to be on the same page with the QB. We've all seen what that looks like, when that doesn't happen. That being said, I agree with swinging for the fences and going after a physical freak in the draft. Now who that Is, I don't know, but do hope Beane and Company are spending a lot of time evaluating that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: My top 2nd tier WR2 targets are Samuel and Mooney. I think the Bills will have interest in both. They can. It depends what they do with Diggs. Samuel and Mooney would be great additions. Both would excel playing with Josh. Nothing will happen with Diggs. His cap hit is too large to do anything other than keep him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 If I have things my way we are drafting a round 1, another WR between rnds 2-4, and adding Josh Reynolds. I want the WR corp truly upgraded talent short and long term. Shakir is your slot WR3, Diggs can transition into WR2 24-25, and new draft pick goes to WR1 hopefully. The other WR is development piece like we did with Gabe Davis who was at his best when he was WR3/4 behind Diggs-Beasley-Brown/Sanders. The defense is mostly set outside of DT/SAF and you can find guys cheap to help. I am investing to max Josh out at this point as they haven't touched the WR position for real in year. Shakir is looking like a great pick but it is a bit of luck too. I want to increase that luck and odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said: Here is my plan: Keep Diggs - I think he was battling injury. He is still a viable force and a mentor for a draftee Draft one in Rd 1 Shakir as #3 Round off with a second tier FA Look at progress of Shorter and Shavers Another lower (Rd 5+ pick) We cannot just depend on the draft. We need at least one FA, maybe 2 to round off the roster I am beginning to believe that Diggs may be a one trick pony who is a bit played out. Various corners have been highly effective in shutting him down. There remains a question as to whether scheme is an issue in his decline. Whatever the reason, his drop in production has been alarming and problematic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Scott7975 said: Nothing will happen with Diggs. His cap hit is too large to do anything other than keep him. This year we find out if there’s really any issues with Diggs and the Bills. I know there’s a lot of dead cap but it is possible for the Bills to move on and save over $10 million in cap. That’s significant enough to consider if there are any beefs between the Bills and Diggs. We’ll just have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: This year we find out if there’s really any issues with Diggs and the Bills. I know there’s a lot of dead cap but it is possible for the Bills to move on and save over $10 million in cap. That’s significant enough to consider if there are any beefs between the Bills and Diggs. We’ll just have to wait and see. not this coming season. His cap hit is 27m. His dead cap is 31m. How do you figure they would save 10m? They would pay more to release him than keep him. Edited January 24 by Scott7975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 5 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Mooney would be my "poor man's Gabe" to have a rookie have to fight to take the snaps from him. It's an interesting comparison in that they are very different. The knock on Gabe is his top end speed route tree and Mooney is much faster both in and out of cuts and top end. So hypothetically Mooney would be much better at taking the top off a defense. Where I'm not sure about Mooney is the dirty work stuff like run blocking and overall physicallity. Gabe also knew how to get open in the end zone. Mooney and Shakir might be great together playing off of Diggs. Still like everyone is saying I hope we are able to draft someone who's physically talented and skilled enough to fight for an outside WR spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Hollywood brown would give us a burner we lack and is coming off a down two years in AZ Calvin Ridley - might be too expensive Rasheed Shaheed broke out this year in a poor saints offense - could be a risk DJ Chark - Perfect candidate for a placeholder if we draft a player and want them to earn the role over the course of the year in typical McD fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: This year we find out if there’s really any issues with Diggs and the Bills. I know there’s a lot of dead cap but it is possible for the Bills to move on and save over $10 million in cap. That’s significant enough to consider if there are any beefs between the Bills and Diggs. We’ll just have to wait and see. How would we save money? I don’t think that’s the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: Here is the full WR free agent list from Spotrac. 75 players. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/all/ I don't know why but looking over that list I can't help but feeling that Devin Duvernay is someone Beane will target. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLCoolCy Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 It is going to be an interesting how Beane address the #2 WR. For most of the year I had assumed Gabe who illustrates the process McDermott believes in would get an extension. The comments at the end of the year from Gabe and McBeane have me rethinking that is the plan (assuming Gabe doesn't take a huge discount). The last 1/2 year illustrated the need for a true field stretcher in the Smokey Brown archetype to keep Defenses honest. I am still comfortable with Diggs as the #1 and now Shakiir as #3/Slot. Kincaid will be a TE1 thus the bills are set with short and medium horizontal options. Shorter will get a shot to replace Gabe though will be the WR5 entering the season like replacing Sherfeild there and in special teams. Harty can return since he is under contract but the staff hasn't shown confidence in him playing WR snaps. I see the need for 2 additional WR one in the draft and one FA. I see many auto picking a 1st round WR and inserting him as the #2 starting WR week 1. While I would expect a WR in round 1 or 2 with them being that speed WR I don't think we could expect them to be a starter day 1. The Staff has consistently been hesitant to give rookies big roles to begin their careers, There isn't money to get a long term starter in free agency thus Beane will need to get creative. I will be very curious to see what veteran WR could be cut and looking for a 1 year deal to improve their final contract with Josh Allen as their QB. I would be looking at M. Williams, T. Lockett, M Thomas, or Odell Beckem to get a Bill's 1 year offer and complete the WR room. I get each of these players have flaws but wouldn't break the bank and allow for the WR draft pick to develop hopefully contribute later in the year and be a non-doubt starter in year 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray51 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I dont think we are going after a WR2 in FA, more like a WR3/4 that gives them flexibility in the offense. I'd assume they would want speed OR route running. I think they either go a younger guy off a rookie deal who might have some untapped production, like a Devin Duvernay. Or, they could maybe go a vet, like a Sterling Sheppard who could play the Sanders role from two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: not this coming season. His cap hit is 27m. His dead cap is 31m. How do you figure they would save 10m? They would pay more to release him than keep him. June 1st designation. 1 minute ago, NewEra said: How would we save money? I don’t think that’s the case June 1st designation. Still a lot of dead cap because his cap is so high but they’d save $10+ million next year with a still a lot of dead cap. People are afraid of the dead cap but if there are problems within the organization with Diggs the dead cap won’t matter this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Hollywood brown would give us a burner we lack and is coming off a down two years in AZ Calvin Ridley - might be too expensive Rasheed Shaheed broke out this year in a poor saints offense - could be a risk DJ Chark - Perfect candidate for a placeholder if we draft a player and want them to earn the role over the course of the year in typical McD fashion. What would you venture to guess on Brown's price tag? Sportstrac thinks 15mil which seems pretty high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Hollywood brown would give us a burner we lack and is coming off a down two years in AZ Calvin Ridley - might be too expensive Rasheed Shaheed broke out this year in a poor saints offense - could be a risk DJ Chark - Perfect candidate for a placeholder if we draft a player and want them to earn the role over the course of the year in typical McD fashion. Oooh I had missed some. I had left Brown off because I saw his last year and thought he would be too expensive. He might sneak by to get to day 2 day 3 Those do seem like the best options if we want to throw money at a placeholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Give me two in the draft Give me two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, transient said: We have 10 draft picks and they're not all going to make the team... we need to set a target of "x" number of receivers that we believe can be WR1 in the first round and make sure we get one (there were rumors floating around the board from "people in the know" that was the plan this past draft, but we weren't able to make the trade up before Addison, the last of that group, was off the board). Screw best player available at our draft position this draft, we NEED to get this fixed and since Diggs' contract ensures that he's here for the next few seasons, it needs to be through the draft. As Patrick 'Crybaby' Mahomes is paid to say - we need to bundle (the draft picks) if we cannot use all but since there are a lot of free agents on Bills roster and they have cap issues team may be getting younger and less experienced/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Maine-iac said: What would you venture to guess on Brown's price tag? Sportstrac thinks 15mil which seems pretty high. I don't think the market will be big for him at all based on two down years. I would think you could get him on a short term prove it deal. He made $3m this year and underperformed a lot of other WRs making similar money. Chark had a much better year at $5M, so I'd say $5-6M 1-2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: June 1st designation. June 1st designation. Still a lot of dead cap because his cap is so high but they’d save $10+ million next year with a still a lot of dead cap. People are afraid of the dead cap but if there are problems within the organization with Diggs the dead cap won’t matter this year. So not really saving $10+ million ,,,, just pushing that out 12 months on the credit card …. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, Aussie Joe said: So not really saving $10+ million ,,,, just pushing that out 12 months on the credit card …. In the NFL, that's the same thing. The cap is an illusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: June 1st designation. all that does is kick the rest of it to the following season. So they would pay like 9mil this season and then have to pay the remaining 22 mil the following season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: In the NFL, that's the same thing. The cap is an illusion. The cap being an illusion is not relevant to this point ..the money still has to be paid …so it’s not “saved”… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I think allowing our young WR to develop is also key. Shakir is ready for a breakout next year but we shouldn’t depend on that. Sign a tier 2 WR2. Starts next year with… WR1 Diggs WR2 UFA WR3 Shakir WR4 Rookie 1st round pick WR5 Shorter WR6 Rookie mid round round pick I think you are counting on Shakir too much. Gabe Davis looked like he was breaking out, but he topped out. I think you HAVE to find a very talented rookie WR and if Shakir really does break out, that’s gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Firebaugh Kid Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Two names I'd love to try that aren't CRAZY expensive: Hollywood Brown and Van Jefferson. 14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Give me two in the draft Give me two Utah, get me TWO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 12 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: So not really saving $10+ million ,,,, just pushing that out 12 months on the credit card …. It’s basically like restructuring Diggs but you don’t have Diggs. A lot could happen. Like I said it depends on Diggs. If Diggs wants to be here then he will be because it benefits the Bills to keep him. But if he doesn’t the Bills can move on and look for his replacement with the $10 million in cap savings. They’d just have to backload the contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beer can shower Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Draft a Wide Receiver in the first round. Other teams do. Why not Buffalo? (I already know why). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 the reason we are not going to pursue Gabe is we want a young cost controled possible #1 WR in the near future. A player that be a #2 /#1b short term FA for WRs means over paying for good one or finding value in the scraps left over. If your QB is on a rookie contract you can overpay, but we are not that team anymore. Finding value for WR #4 and #5 in the scraps is ok, but not when we need someone to step up and force other teams to account. The only way we can get a stud WR worthy of catching footballs from Josh is to move up in the draft and find a gem. Diggs will still grab 80 to 90 catches in a down year, a stud drafted WR will only make the Bills better and by proxy will Diggs will be more effective IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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