Niagara Dude Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I think unless Dabol hires him as DC he will just retire because no team wants him. The defence even with major injuries improved with McDermott taking over, which points to Frazier as the problem. The defence was not dominating but way more sacks and big plays then in previous years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 hours ago, SoMAn said: The 'leave of absence' line was nothing more than an extremely gracious way to part ways with a longtime and much respected coach and former player. Clearly, McDermott wanted to take charge of the defense. There was zero chance Frazier was coming back after a year. We have a classy coach who let the veteran leave with dignity. Agreed. I got so much grief on this site for stating this at the time…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Agreed. I got so much grief on this site for stating this at the time…… I don't think he was ever coming back. The contentious point as I recall at the time was more did he jump or was he pushed and Frazier definitely jumped. It was his own decision to step away. I think (although despite trying to I haven't had this absolutely confirmed) that McDermott decided to call the defense and after originally accepting that Leslie having taken the week off post self scouting decided he wasn't willing to continue as DC without playcalling responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think he was ever coming back. The contentious point as I recall at the time was more did he jump or was he pushed and Frazier definitely jumped. It was his own decision to step away. I think (although despite trying to I haven't had this absolutely confirmed) that McDermott decided to call the defense and after originally accepting that Leslie having taken the week off post self scouting decided he wasn't willing to continue as DC without playcalling responsibility. Isn’t changing someone’s job responsibilities a way of pushing them out? I’m not saying that this situation is 100% on either party or that the Bills wouldn’t have been justified in telling Frazier that they were going in another direction, but those aren’t “100% jumped” scenarios. I’m not sure what happened exactly. I won’t speculate in this post, but if Frazier had asked out of his contract early (the 100% jumped scenario) I’m sure the Bills would have let him go. But they would not have paid him out for this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 11 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Isn’t changing someone’s job responsibilities a way of pushing them out? I’m not saying that this situation is 100% on either party or that the Bills wouldn’t have been justified in telling Frazier that they were going in another direction, but those aren’t “100% jumped” scenarios. I’m not sure what happened exactly. I won’t speculate in this post, but if Frazier had asked out of his contract early (the 100% jumped scenario) I’m sure the Bills would have let him go. But they would not have paid him out for this season. What I have had confirmed is that as the staff took their week off the Bills fully expected Leslie back. He was not fired, there was no desire to lose him. He contacted them after that break and said he wanted to step away, exactly as Brandon laid it our publicly. Now something obviously prompted that and my speculation is the decision had already been taken that McD would call the defense. But if that were the case is suggests the Bills were happy for Leslie to continue as DC, just without the playcalling responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: What I have had confirmed is that as the staff took their week off the Bills fully expected Leslie back. He was not fired, there was no desire to lose him. He contacted them after that break and said he wanted to step away, exactly as Brandon laid it our publicly. Now something obviously prompted that and my speculation is the decision had already been taken that McD would call the defense. But if that were the case is suggests the Bills were happy for Leslie to continue as DC, just without the playcalling responsibility. Thanks for sharing what you know. Even though the Bills wanted Frazier back I would be shocked if they were surprised by him not wanting to return after having play calling responsibilities stripped. At his age, with his experience and with only one year remaining on his contract, I’m sure that Frazier saw that situation for what it was - a gradual push out the door. He would’ve realized that his options were to stay on as DC in name for one more season and then not have his contract renewed or leave immediately. He chose the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Thanks for sharing what you know. Even though the Bills wanted Frazier back I would be shocked if they were surprised by him not wanting to return after having play calling responsibilities stripped. At his age, with his experience and with only one year remaining on his contract, I’m sure that Frazier saw that situation for what it was - a gradual push out the door. He would’ve realized that his options were to stay on as DC in name for one more season and then not have his contract renewed or leave immediately. He chose the latter. I also think Leslie being the kind of guy he is he probably also saw Sean taking on the defense as a HC knowing he was under increasing scrutiny wanting more control and will have realised that having he, the playcaller for the previous 6 seasons, hanging around in the background wasn't necessarily the most helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I also think Leslie being the kind of guy he is he probably also saw Sean taking on the defense as a HC knowing he was under increasing scrutiny wanting more control and will have realised that having he, the playcaller for the previous 6 seasons, hanging around in the background wasn't necessarily the most helpful. Yup. Better for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: He has multiple interviews (Chargers and Raiders that are confirmed)and there are a bunch of jobs available. It’s not crazy, at all. I’d put his chances at around…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Imagine leaving your job, not being replaced by anyone, and the company doing better. And then expect other companies to be chomping at the bit to hire you for one of their most important roles. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 11 hours ago, QCity said: The man was fired so stealthily half the fanbase didn't realize it at the time. 11 hours ago, Shortchaz said: They just stopped sending him checks Coaches are under guaranteed contracts. There is no way Frasier is just going to just walk away from it. Viewpoint is so slanted by opinion of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 12 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said: Sorry I if I misread that with my answer on the Rooney Rule. I wonder if they paid him off to go away? If so and he gets a hc job, he owes us a 1day/$1.00 "coordinator for a day" contract, then he can sign hc deal 🤣🤣 a man can wish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Sadly, Leslie has been used many times through the years to "fulfill the Rooney rule" a completely INSANE and DISCRIMINATORY rule put in place by the league. Absolutely absurd. Skin color and ethnicity should have ZERO to do with the hiring process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 In the business I was in, we would have said Frazier was an excellent #2 man. But, McD is a #1 man calling the D plays now. A question of innovation and depth of thought. Frazier was extremely valuable to the new HC McD, but, Mc D has more bandwidth now as HC and has done both. In the business I was in, we would have said Frazier was an excellent #2 man. But, McD is a #1 man calling the D plays now. A question of innovation and depth of thought. Frazier was extremely valuable to the new HC McD, but, Mc D has more bandwidth now as HC and has done both. In the business I was in, we would have said Frazier was an excellent #2 man. But, McD is a #1 man calling the D plays now. A question of innovation and depth of thought. Frazier was extremely valuable to the new HC McD, but, Mc D has more bandwidth now as HC and has done both. In the business I was in, we would have said Frazier was an excellent #2 man. But, McD is a #1 man calling the D plays now. A question of innovation and depth of thought. Frazier was extremely valuable to the new HC McD, but, Mc D has more bandwidth now as HC and has done both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 13 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said: I would be very surprised if he got hired as a HC So would I. Then again, each year there seems to be at least one HC hiring that surprises me. It shouldn't surprise us to be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, bigK14094 said: In the business I was in, we would have said Frazier was an excellent #2 man. But, McD is a #1 man calling the D plays now. A question of innovation and depth of thought. Frazier was extremely valuable to the new HC McD, but, Mc D has more bandwidth now as HC and has done both. In the business I was in, we would have said Frazier was an excellent #2 man. But, McD is a #1 man calling the D plays now. A question of innovation and depth of thought. Frazier was extremely valuable to the new HC McD, but, Mc D has more bandwidth now as HC and has done both. In the business I was in, we would have said Frazier was an excellent #2 man. But, McD is a #1 man calling the D plays now. A question of innovation and depth of thought. Frazier was extremely valuable to the new HC McD, but, Mc D has more bandwidth now as HC and has done both. In the business I was in, we would have said Frazier was an excellent #2 man. But, McD is a #1 man calling the D plays now. A question of innovation and depth of thought. Frazier was extremely valuable to the new HC McD, but, Mc D has more bandwidth now as HC and has done both. Tech problem here, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 He actually has a resume comparable to Chan Gailey except the other side of the ball. Chan got a second chance at not the best of situations, comparable to today’s panthers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 hours ago, stevestojan said: Imagine leaving your job, not being replaced by anyone, and the company doing better. And then expect other companies to be chomping at the bit to hire you for one of their most important roles. It's not exactly true that the defense has been better this year though. There was a stretch in the middle of the season where they were performing like literally the worst defense in the league. They have certainly gotten it together down the stretch, but to be honest Leslie Frazier's problem was never regular season defense. It was always the playoffs where they would fall apart and let teams march up and down the field at will. Starting today we will see if that trend has finally changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Sadly, Leslie has been used many times through the years to "fulfill the Rooney rule" a completely INSANE and DISCRIMINATORY rule put in place by the league. Absolutely absurd. Skin color and ethnicity should have ZERO to do with the hiring process Agree with the bolded, but it does open opportunities for minorities that otherwise wouldn’t have been there. The opportunity to interview for a coveted HC position. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe Tomlin was a beneficiary of the Rooney Rule and the Steelers had said without the rule in place he likely wouldn’t have even been interviewed (if it wasn’t Tomlin and the Steeler’s comments, someone correct me on this). Minorities have long lagged behind others when it comes to opportunities for advancement, so I can’t poo poo the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 14 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: He has multiple interviews (Chargers and Raiders that are confirmed)and there are a bunch of jobs available. It’s not crazy, at all. yeah, the history of the NFL is littered with dubious retreads getting picked up by other teams.... then dumped again. Look at this year's firings alone--a litany of HC's and former coordinators. Some might get another shot because owners (i.e. those least fit to make such a choice) make that call. But after he disappeared a year ago, I don't see anyone scrolling through their rolodex looking for Leslie's land line number.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brand J said: Agree with the bolded, but it does open opportunities for minorities that otherwise wouldn’t have been there. The opportunity to interview for a coveted HC position. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe Tomlin was a beneficiary of the Rooney Rule and the Steelers had said without the rule in place he likely wouldn’t have even been interviewed (if it wasn’t Tomlin and the Steeler’s comments, someone correct me on this). Minorities have long lagged behind others when it comes to opportunities for advancement, so I can’t poo poo the rule. The problem is, candidates are sometimes receiving interviews because they are minorities. Not because the organization has serious interest in hiring them. IMO, that's very insulting to anyone Edited January 15 by Warriorspikes51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeFrommStateFarm Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 16 hours ago, Shortchaz said: They just stopped sending him checks They offered him the job of spraying for roaches in the basement but he declined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 16 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said: I would be very surprised if he got hired as a HC Agree, my guess is DC with young first time coach. Wish him well but just don’t see it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 35 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: The problem is, candidates are sometimes receiving interviews because they are minorities. Not because the organization has serious interest in hiring them. IMO, that's very insulting to anyone What one perceives as a problem, another perceives as an opportunity. Their skin color grants them an interview, nothing more. What they can take away from that interview is experience… and if they’re lucky, a job. To your second point, an organization doesn’t always know what it’s looking for, it’s the old adage “I’ll know it when I see it.” Going back to Tomlin, you could argue the Steelers didn’t have serious interest in hiring him when they scheduled the interview, but Tomlin blew them away and so he got the job. It’s only insulting if an individual allows it to be. Do you suffer from the rule in some way? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I wonder if the league ever considered that the comp picks could actually hinder their ability to get hired. Maybe teams in your division wouldn't want to help their division rivals with the comp picks, so they move on??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 17 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: That is my thinking but hadn’t heard it anywhere. That would be found money. He’s not a Rooney Rule in Vegas. Pierce would accomplish that. Some people just don’t get it. According to Schefter and the rules now they must interview 2 minorities before a hire. Look it us. Leslie is Just getting used IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, wppete said: According to Schefter and the rules now they must interview 2 minorities before a hire. Look it us. Leslie is Just getting used IMO. this is even more insane. Forcing an organization to interview someone based on their ethnicity/skin color. How can anyone be sure they are a serious candidate and not being used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: this is even more insane. Forcing an organization to interview someone based on their ethnicity/skin color. How can anyone be sure they are a serious candidate and not being used? He discusses it here briefly and was also talking about on the Pat Macafee show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I get the outrage over giving someone a job because of their skin color. That shouldn’t happen, ever. I DON’T get the outrage over simply giving a minority an interview because of his skin color. If they feel they’re being used or not taken seriously, they can turn the interview down. Don’t feel angry or insulted for them. That’s not your place. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 57 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: The problem is, candidates are sometimes receiving interviews because they are minorities. Not because the organization has serious interest in hiring them. IMO, that's very insulting to anyone Possibly true. But if you have an excellent interview and don’t get it.. the word is out. It’s a winning opportunity. It’s up to you to make the best of it. Several (not all) of these candidates have significantly less experience than non minorities who don’t get an interview. Goes both ways. I mean Mayo gets the Pats job with 4 years of coaching experience. And a position coach until this year. He spent 1 year as co-dc while hoody’s kid called the D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, Brand J said: I get the outrage over giving someone a job because of their skin color. That shouldn’t happen, ever. I DON’T get the outrage over simply giving a minority an interview because of his skin color. If they feel they’re being used or not taken seriously, they can turn the interview down. Don’t feel angry or insulted for them. That’s not your place. & it's your place to tell someone else how to feel? Haha okay, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 17 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m guessing that it was just one of those situations where neither wanted to be in the relationship any longer. They wanted to see other people. This is very likely true. Frazier was an integral parts of the Bills success during his team here, and even if that had run its course, they were never going to do or say anything that disrespected Frazier and his contribution. I wish him well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 On 1/15/2024 at 3:00 PM, wppete said: According to Schefter and the rules now they must interview 2 minorities before a hire. Look it us. Leslie is Just getting used IMO. They interviewed Kris Richard too. The Rooney Rule has been satisfied without Frazier. On 1/15/2024 at 12:19 PM, Mr. WEO said: yeah, the history of the NFL is littered with dubious retreads getting picked up by other teams.... then dumped again. Look at this year's firings alone--a litany of HC's and former coordinators. Some might get another shot because owners (i.e. those least fit to make such a choice) make that call. But after he disappeared a year ago, I don't see anyone scrolling through their rolodex looking for Leslie's land line number.... Honestly, he would have a shot at a job if he were younger for the reasons that you mentioned. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 1/14/2024 at 7:44 PM, Mike in Horseheads said: He's a Rooney Rule interview Besides interim coach Pierce, the Raiders have interviewed 2 other minority coaching candidates. Are all 3 of them just to satisfy the Rooney rule or are do you just assume black coaches aren't deserving of an interview based on their abilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 1/15/2024 at 1:02 PM, Warriorspikes51 said: this is even more insane. Forcing an organization to interview someone based on their ethnicity/skin color. How can anyone be sure they are a serious candidate and not being used? I don't think there is a perfect solution. Unfortunately, decades of not even considering interviewing minority candidates has brought this on. Organizations used to only interview white people and many of them were really awful coaches, but they were white and they gave them an unfair advantage. Even a minor attempt to level the playing field is a step forward. And it's not like the coaches they are interviewing are unqualified, they have to be almost perfect, while crappy, white coaches get multiple opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 1/15/2024 at 2:08 PM, Warriorspikes51 said: The problem is, candidates are sometimes receiving interviews because they are minorities. Not because the organization has serious interest in hiring them. IMO, that's very insulting to anyone Agreed…It’s the unintended consequence of the rule… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 1/15/2024 at 12:00 PM, wppete said: According to Schefter and the rules now they must interview 2 minorities before a hire. Look it us. Leslie is Just getting used IMO. Unless he excels during an interview he otherwise would not have gotten ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 The Bears could hire Frazier the 2nd time around but they won’t. They’ll stick with mediocrity and suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Beane just stated that Frazier is still under contract, but that the contract will be expiring shortly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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