Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Belgium_Bill]

8 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Sidle up all you like, you're not  getting a Bills' game by agreeing with this.

*
😁😉

Trust me, I've just about had it after two defeats in recent years agains the Jags over here, they can stay in Buffalo 😉

[boater]

7 minutes ago, beer can shower said:

McDermott came in and Pegula made him "Czar" "One Voice".
Of which he had no experience.

From all accounts he went way beyond "Coaching".
If allegations are true.  He had his hand in some dismissals, not just his underlings which He certainly  would be responsible for, but above what a Football coach in a billion dollar  organization would be involved in or responsible for.

 

I am sure we have all seen this, given authority goes to their head.

So does one not expect at some point the fan would be turned his way and the **** would hit it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"from all accounts" and "if allegations are true"

 

You are not big on discussing verifiable facts, I see.

 

Not even the "made him czar" comment is verifiable. It is actually refuted: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/new-bills-gm-brandon-beane-press-conference-sean-mcdermott-carolina-panthers/w5dfu8tam8y51jd21selm3spg

[Scott7975]

29 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Nah, I paid $8 to learn something and draw my own conclusions. I definitely learned something. But, it was more about Mr. Dunne than Coach McDermott.

 

While I don't share your entire conclusions, I respect that you at least read the entire article before making them 👍

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I agree, it doesn't move the needle for me either

 

The funny part is how we read this. Imo Dunne isn't a very effective writer, so where you guys see malice by omission or innuendo I see a guy who could have  written a way more damaging piece but lacks the chops to put it all together in such a way

 

Like I said elsewhere, I've actually enjoyed Dunne's writing with TBN and early Bleacher Report.  I thought he was a good writer  then.  Of course, editing plays a role.  I can't judge the $8 fee piece he just wrote, because as you pointed out, I haven't read the entire thing.  I didn't like his 2020 Aaron Rodgers piece.  I thought it was disjointed and not particularly well crafted.

 

I will note that one thing Covid taught most of us is what we needed to set up to work effectively from home. 

 

A headcoach with school-age children who expects (say) his subordinates to assemble film breakdowns before they leave and send them to him for evening analysis, would not be a shock

[FireChans]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

1. Bills Offense was #2 in scoring under Dorsey—better than the year before him and the year after.

 

2. I can’t get employees fired

Don’t sell yourself short

[Rico]

19 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, that's the Cold Hard Financial Facts of the situation.

 

If Dunne pulled in 100 new subscribers who spent their $8, that's $800 and a Merry Christmas for family and friends.

If he pulled in 1000, that's $8000, a Merry Christmas and a trip to Hawaii (or the server bill and maybe his home's utilities and property tax too.)

If he pulled in 10,000, that's $80,000  - twice the per capita income reported for Erie County by   Census.gov

 

With a story that got nationwide airplay as the 9/11 anecdote from 2019 has done, I don't think it's beyond the pale that 10,000 people might have had $8 of curiousity.

I’ve read enough Tyler Dunne back in the Doug Whaley Daze, and don’t need to see any more. For those who do want to read it, someone should just post the whole thing somewhere (not here of course) and save people the money. I normally would not condone such actions, but it’s not like this bottom-feeder can afford to sue anyone. 

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, perhaps not directly, but he's the only offensive player that openly went on record, indirectly then.  

 

Way too much of this 9/11 thing is being made in this.  Sure, it was a glaring lack of judgement and gauche to be sure, but that's just a small fraction of far more relevant content in that series by Dunne.  

 

Agree with you however! 

 

 

It seems to me that the BN reporters are stuck on the al qaeda story, which frankly is a nothing story to me. It’s what they’re asking the players about, which is why we’re seeing the player responses and quotes about it. They can only answer what they’re asked about. But honestly, who really cares about that long-ago pep talk outside of the Peter Kings of the world?
 

My view is that there are a lot of incentives among sports reporters to focus on a thread that makes a story “bigger than sports.” That’s because at the end of the day the sport itself is fundamentally meaningless — it really is just a game. However, sports reporters at credentialed media outlets ARE reporters and their whole identity is bound up with that professional credential. If they can craft a story into something that reaches beyond sports and reflects on social and political issues, they get plaudits. They can also tell themselves that they’re doing something important — real reporting, as it were. Peter King, a soppy-eyed sentimentalist who incidentally wrote nothing about the brewing CTE scandal early on (presumably because he didn’t want to lose access; it took a non-sports NY Times writer to break the story because no NFL beat journalists were willing to take it on), is a classic version of this sort of sportswriter.

Edited December 9, 2023 by dave mcbride

[beer can shower]

5 minutes ago, boater said:

"from all accounts" and "if allegations are true"

 

You are not big on discussing verifiable facts, I see.

 

Not even the "made him czar" comment is verifiable. It is actually refuted: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/new-bills-gm-brandon-beane-press-conference-sean-mcdermott-carolina-panthers/w5dfu8tam8y51jd21selm3spg

that article you referenced was from May of 2017.

Do you consider that verifiable?

 

Beane said in the article "I'm going to be over the football side. Sean's going to be over the coaches. But there's not a czar around here. Sean's not a czar. I'm not a czar. Every decision is going to be collaborative, together."

 

6 years later how many believe that is the way this organization has been run?

How many believe McDermott "hired" Beane.

 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Do you think 95% of football fans who are not Buffalo Bills fans know anything about McDermott or how this organization is run?

 

Outside the Bills, what do I know in any detail about other coaches?  Very little.  I do not live & die and neither do fans.

 

What the knowledgeable football fan knows (and not talking casual), is that the Bills have underachieved and went from one of the SB favourites to their season that could be sunk come Sunday.

 

The only other team approaching that ineptitude this year (and they have no fans and have had minimal playoff success) is the LA Chargers.

 

Casual fans all know Josh Allen and they are wondering why they are 6-6.  

 

This article was needed and is a national story and yep a lot of us here simply are happy to see additional context provided.

 

 

?

 

I mean, the Bengals were 12-4 and appeared in the conf champ for the 2nd time in a row in 2022.  A repeat was expected,

This season they're 6-6 at present, but they were 5-5 before losing their franchise QB in a loss to the Ravens.

Most relatively knowledgeable fans see that as "underachieving" for the Bengals

 

The Vikings were 13-4 last season and were expected to advance in the playoffs, not lose to the Giants and to correct that flaw and go deeper into the playoffs this season.  They were 4-4 when they lost their franchise QB, Kirk Cousins, in a win over GB, and are now 6-6 and 2nd in their division.

Most relatively knowledgeable fans see that as "underachieving" for the Vikes.

 

I could go on.

 

It's legit hard to sustain success in the NFL.

 

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

?

 

I mean, the Bengals were 12-4 and appeared in the conf champ for the 2nd time in a row in 2022.  A repeat was expected,

This season they're 6-6 at present, but they were 5-5 before losing their franchise QB in a loss to the Ravens.

Most relatively knowledgeable fans see that as "underachieving" for the Bengals

 

The Vikings were 13-4 last season and were expected to advance in the playoffs, not lose to the Giants and to correct that flaw and go deeper into the playoffs this season.  They were 4-4 when they lost their franchise QB, Kirk Cousins, in a win over GB, and are now 6-6 and 2nd in their division.

Most relatively knowledgeable fans see that as "underachieving" for the Vikes.

 

I could go on.

 

It's legit hard to sustain success in the NFL.

 

Bengals went to a Super Bowl already. They started the season with Burrow hurt. That is why they had the record they did. They beat us and the 49ers and ripped off a ton of wins before he got hurt again. Vikings? You’re kidding right? They had nearly a league record in win% in games decided by one score. Everybody had them regressing this year but you apparently. 

[boater]

Just now, beer can shower said:

that article you referenced was from May of 2017.

Do you consider that verifiable?

 

Beane said in the article "I'm going to be over the football side. Sean's going to be over the coaches. But there's not a czar around here. Sean's not a czar. I'm not a czar. Every decision is going to be collaborative, together."

 

6 years later how many believe that is the way this organization has been run?

How many believe McDermott "hired" Beane.

 

The foundation was set in 2017 when both were hired. There isn't even close to enough indicators to suggest that anything has changed since then and that McDermott has morphed into a fully controlling Czar.

 

You do know a "Czar" would run both the coaching side and personnel side? Anyone who thinks that Beane is subordinate to McDermott just isn't paying attention. Or they are seeing just the things that support their world view.

[beer can shower]

2 minutes ago, boater said:

Or they are seeing just the things that support their world view.

And some would concur  you would be doing that here

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It seems to me that the BN reporters are stuck on the al qaeda story, which frankly is a nothing story to me. It’s what they’re asking the players about, which is why we’re seeing the player responses and quotes about it. They can only answer what they’re asked about. But honestly, who really cares about that long-ago pep talk outside of the Peter Kings of the world?
 

My view is that there are a lot of incentives among sports reporters to focus on a thread that makes a story “bigger than sports.” That’s because at the end of the day the sport itself is fundamentally meaningless — it really is just a game. However, sports reporters at credentialed media outlets ARE reporters and their whole identity is bound up with that professional credential. If they can craft a story into something that reaches beyond sports and reflects on social and political issues, they get plaudits. They can also tell themselves that they’re something important — real reporting, as it were. Peter King, a soppy-eyed sentimentalist who incidentally wrote nothing about the brewing CTE scandal early on (presumably because he didn’t want to lose access; it took a non-sports NY Times writer to break the story because no NFL beat journalists were willing to take it on), is a classic version of this sort of sportswriter.

 

Interesting perspective.

 

I know someone who once made the statement (this was back in the height of the Cold War Era with the Soviet Union dominating Eastern Europe and concern about the "domino effect" in Vietnam, Korea, etc, so give it that context): "if we really cared about fighting communism, we should never have defeated Hitler in WWII".  This was at a dinner party with some veterans and people of Jewish faith in attendance.  It went over like the proverbial "Lead Zeppelin" and could best be described as socially clueless.

 

But one could probably craft a strong historical argument that it wasn't, objectively, a mistaken statement. 

 

Given the multitude of other reasons why WWII was a "must win" (as historian Marv Levy once said) and the probability that people in the room lost relatives either in the Holocaust or in Military Service, it was a totally clueless thing to say.

 

I think the reason so many of us do find that 9/11 anecdote troubling is because one of the biggest jobs of a football HC is to be a Leader of Men, to be able to deal with multiple different diverse personalities and viewpoints effectively and meld them into a team fighting for one objective.  So for a HC to be socially and emotionally clueless enough to choose the perpetrators of the 9/11 terrorism as any kind of positive example, is troubling.  It represents a monumental failure to "read the room".

But on the other hand, it happened 4 years ago and the team has had strong success since then.

[BillsSbSoon]

I’ll have to watch Micah again but my thought was he was adamantly defending Sean. But have Josh and diggs spoken about it? I haven’t watched their pc’s the past couple days but that is really telling that they haven’t commented imo

[boater]

10 minutes ago, beer can shower said:

And some would concur  you would be doing that here

I look forward to the contrarian feedback from others--people who believe McDermott has run amok with total control of the Bills organization.

[SCBills]

It could be worse?

 

 

[Breakout Squad]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

It could be worse?

 

 

What a son of a bum of a bum’s son. 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Bengals went to a Super Bowl already. They started the season with Burrow hurt. That is why they had the record they did. They beat us and the 49ers and ripped off a ton of wins before he got hurt again. Vikings? You’re kidding right? They had nearly a league record in win% in games decided by one score. Everybody had them regressing this year but you apparently. 

 

Nice snark, Bro.

 

Some pundits predicted the Vikings would improve in their 2nd season under Kevin O'connell.  It's not an uncommon prediction for a 2nd year HC.  Darrisaw and Addison were viewed as strong additions.  So no, not everyone but me had them "regressing".  And to their 'relatively knowedgeable fans', success was expected.  So yeah, by some viewpoints, they've under-achieved.

 

By the same token, a number of pundits predicted that the Bills would only finish 2nd in the AFC East this season due to a surge by the Dolphins under 2nd year head coach Daniels, while the Bills didn't do enough to improve on offense or defense.  Sports Illustrated I believe predicted us at 9-8. 

So if the Vikings haven't underachieved because some pundits predicted them to regress, wouldn't that same logic apply to the Bills?

 

As for "Burrow hurt", if the Bengals get a "pass" for their 2-3 start because "Burrow was playing hurt" (therefore they didn't under-achieve), shouldn't the Bills get a "pass" for under-achieving during the Giants game and 4 games afterwards, when they went 2-3 (therefore they didn't under-achieve)?

 

 

[RochesterLifer]

15 minutes ago, BillsSbSoon said:

I’ll have to watch Micah again but my thought was he was adamantly defending Sean. But have Josh and diggs spoken about it? I haven’t watched their pc’s the past couple days but that is really telling that they haven’t commented imo

Honest question here, as I have never been on an NFL team.

Is it possible Josh and Stef may not be aware of the whole story, or see (evening they are supportive) a need to comment?

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

It could be worse?

 

 

 

Bite Your Everlovin' Muther-fudging Tongue!

 

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, HardyBoy said:

I'd be very surprised if Pegula cares about the operating costs of the bills in any meaningful way, the brand and asset are far more important... 

 

How's the Buffalo Bills brand at the moment? Miss the playoffs and it's going to fall off a cliff and Pegula absolutely will feel it.

 

I'm not worried about it. If this team misses the playoffs or even loses in the wild card round I'm very McDermott is done. Not even Pegula is dumb enough to keep him at that point.

[Toyo321]

From the KC Chiefs Forum

 

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=351264

 

 

[Since1981]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

All this apologizing and explaining and excusing and re-explaining, and making up stuff about losing loved ones in the attack

Yup. Just say, it was bone headed and move on. Saying you lost a family friend came across even more bizarro and McLamo. Just say, “ it was a dumb analogy, I can’t believe I used it, not enough coffee in the dorms that day “

Edited December 9, 2023 by Since1981

[beer can shower]

13 minutes ago, boater said:

I look forward to the contrarian feedback from others--people who believe McDermott has run amok with total control of the Bills organization.

I didn't in my original post  say McDermott has run amok with the organization.

 

Your usage of the word AMOK insinuating that was what I said, was what you accused others of doing to support your world view.

Just interpreting things that support YOUR world view.

You should reread the post again. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by beer can shower

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Nice snark, Bro.

 

Some pundits predicted the Vikings would improve in their 2nd season under Kevin O'connell.  It's not an uncommon prediction for a 2nd year HC.  Darrisaw and Addison were viewed as strong additions.  So no, not everyone but me had them "regressing".  And to their 'relatively knowedgeable fans', success was expected.  So yeah, by some viewpoints, they've under-achieved.

 

By the same token, a number of pundits predicted that the Bills would only finish 2nd in the AFC East this season due to a surge by the Dolphins under 2nd year head coach Daniels, while the Bills didn't do enough to improve on offense or defense.  Sports Illustrated I believe predicted us at 9-8. 

So if the Vikings haven't underachieved because some pundits predicted them to regress, wouldn't that same logic apply to the Bills?

 

As for "Burrow hurt", if the Bengals get a "pass" for their 2-3 start because "Burrow was playing hurt" (therefore they didn't under-achieve), shouldn't the Bills get a "pass" for under-achieving during the Giants game and 4 games afterwards, when they went 2-3 (therefore they didn't under-achieve)?

 

 

Vikings were a fraud last year. They ranked 28th in DVOA. 

Last time I checked the Bills didn’t have Allen on one leg for 4 games as the Bengals did. Bengals still beat us. As they did last year. They have accomplished more with less (go figure). Stop normalizing our mediocrity with crappy examples.

[Beck Water]

Interesting perspective from someone known to a number of folks here.

[Turk71]

6 hours ago, Johnnyp566 said:

 Are a whole bunch of people sitting on their high horses because someone said something they shouldn’t have? Absolutely. Imagine if everything dumb thing you’ve said was dug up and used against you. 

Imagine you are paid millions of dollars per year to run an organization and yet you are stupid enough to think the 9/11 hijackers are a great motivational example of teamwork?

  He shows it over and over on game days and this story just confirms it. How much proof that McD is an idiot do people need? 

 

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Honest question here, as I have never been on an NFL team.

Is it possible Josh and Stef may not be aware of the whole story, or see (evening they are supportive) a need to comment?

No.....

[boater]

4 minutes ago, beer can shower said:

I didn't in my original post  say McDermott has run amok with the organization.

 

Your usage of the word AMOK insinuating that was what I said, was what you accused others of doing to support your world view.

Just interpreting things that support YOUR world view.

You should reread the post again. 

Yep. For your jollies, I read your post again. You said:

Quote

McDermott came in and Pegula made him "Czar" "One Voice".
Of which he had no experience.

From all accounts he went way beyond "Coaching".
If allegations are true.  He had his hand in some dismissals, not just his underlings which He certainly  would be responsible for, but above what a Football coach in a billion dollar  organization would be involved in or responsible for.

 

I am sure we have all seen this, given authority goes to their head.

So does one not expect at some point the fan would be turned his way and the **** would hit it.

Amok isn't your words, but the bolded passages and your whole post pose McDermott as running amok.

 

I fall back on my original critique of your fuzzy words "from all accounts" and "if allegations are true" and my noting you got the "made him Czar" part wrong.

[WotAGuy]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Your contact sounds like a team cancer, which is hilarious for an obvious journeyman who has had lots of HC’s.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?  Because you are a cancer to this board and see everything that way?

[beer can shower]

2 minutes ago, boater said:

Amok isn't your words, but the bolded passages and your whole post pose McDermott as running amok.

When you say POSE that is only your interpretation.

 

And now  when I called you out, You now  admit AMOK wasn't my words, but you still used it.  To throw your interpretation on it.

Disagreeing is fine,  and welcome for discussion,  but  to  misrepresent what the post was seems a bit much.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

That last quote about Dabs kills me. Appreciate who ever posted the chunk, being able to read other parts and not just the crazy stories help build the whole picture of that article. 
 

I don’t think the Giants would let DaBoll go via trade, unfortunately. 
 

If what these ex-players is true, even 50%, Pegs needs to strongly consider a change. Sadly it’s too early for Brady and too late for DaBoll. 

[RichRiderBills]

5 hours ago, wettlaufer said:

 

Dunne addressed the credentials thing. He says it's the Bills' prerogative and he understands.

 

Can I give you an assignment? Can you go out and talk with 25 people who have worked directly with Ty Dunne and report back? Because then you'd be on par with the work he did her. You are correct -- you are speculating from an emotional, uninformed perspective.

 

Give me a break. This is the 2nd or 3rd hit piece Dunes attempted. His :13 second work didn't have the impact he wanted, so here we go again. 

 

It does not matter if you talk to 25 people or 100.... if you walk into the project with the central thesis burned into your brain and already written . This wasn't a comparative fair study, Dune went into this w a goal in mind of smearing McD. He found folks who would assist him and promote that, and gave alternative viewpoints only a smidgen if any acknowledgement. 

 

I don't need to talk to 25 people....Dunes put his material out their for fair scrutiny, and it does not pass the sniff test. 

 

The timing here was intended and overt: he wanted to kick Billsmafia when we were down. He wanted to affect the news, not report the news. 

 

To be frank, given how outright silly and petty many of the assertions are, it's just a shame this garbage has gained traction. 

[boater]

I don't get this forum's love for Daboll as Bills HC.

 

He has a unproven record as HC. His OC success could be attributable to luck of the draw--having Josh Allen as QB.

 

At this point in his career, he's a posterboy for the Peter Principle, which is:

Quote

employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another

 

[Wayne Arnold]

4 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

The timing here was intended and overt: he wanted to kick Billsmafia when we were down. He wanted to affect the news, not report the news. 

 

 

You have got to be kidding me with this crap.

 

You consider a critique of the head coach to be an attack on the fanbase? That is weird as hell.

[Nephilim17]

46 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Interesting perspective from someone known to a number of folks here.

Sorry, I'm not very X literate: how do I see the thread WYO made? I click on the X post and there's nothing linked or under it... And her website doesn't seem to have it either. I could be wrong, however... Or is she being ironic and the heart GIF is the whole of her message?

Thanks.

[LABILLBACKER]

55 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Yup. Just say, it was bone headed and move on. Saying you lost a family friend came across even more bizarro and McLamo. Just say, “ it was a dumb analogy, I can’t believe I used it, not enough coffee in the dorms that day “

Having a friend die in 9/11 is all the more reason he shouldn't have said it in the first place. 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Nephilim17 said:

Sorry, I'm not very X literate: how do I see the thread WYO made? I click on the X post and there's nothing linked or under it... And her website doesn't seem to have it either. I could be wrong, however... Or is she being ironic and the heart GIF is the whole of her message?

Thanks.

 

I've always had that same issue.

I assume it's because you need to have an account with them and be logged in to see the entirety of the content.

[WotAGuy]

1 hour ago, Toyo321 said:

From the KC Chiefs Forum

 

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=351264

 

 

There are some hilarious comments in here. 

[Since1981]

22 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

The timing here was intended and overt: he wanted to kick Billsmafia when we were down. He wanted to affect the news, not report the news. 

 

This is a stupid take. Reporter just happened to finish this week. Reporter didn’t look to time it, or go after fans.
 

Think of it this way? We complain about the Bills local reporters being soft because they want to keep team access or are on Bills payroll. Not the case here, for sure!!!