Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I wonder why Dunne didn't interview Micah Hyde.

 

 

 

 

He said in the article why.

 

He doesn’t have access to the team.

 

But I love that Micah Hyde is sticking up for McD. I hope this article brings the team together and they go on a tear.

[RichRiderBills]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

  stop--lol come on.  he makes it clear in his piece.

 

Did he have "an axe to grind" with Rodgers and McCarthy in that long form piece he wrote in 2019 about the 2 of them?  

 

read the article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, he fairly mentioned it. ...but he's a hack so yes, it was pretty obvious that he needed to. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

 

Sure, he fairly mentioned it. ...but he's a hack so yes, it was pretty obvious that he needed to. 

 

what's a hack and where in those 20,000 words you read in that article did you conclude that's what he is?

 

enlighten us

[BuffaloMatt]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

  stop--lol come on.  he makes it clear in his piece.

 

Did he have "an axe to grind" with Rodgers and McCarthy in that long form piece he wrote in 2019 about the 2 of them?  

 

read the article.

 

 

 

 

If not an axe he had an agenda. 

[Mikie2times]

He rained praise down on Beane in the interview with Cowherd. He said a ton of things many of us are thinking but nobody in the Bills news circle would dare consider talking about. You can point to all these reasons he had to lie but at the end of the day nobody has disputed anything in the article. Beane didn't dispute any of it. If anything he gave it validity. So people out there do feel this way about Sean. As I'm sure some feel warm and fuzzy about him and I'm pretty sure we have read about 2,000 warm and fuzzy articles. If people want to call it a hit piece so be it. It seems like he's representing a different side to the story that any reporter close to the Bills circle would not be able to write if they want to maintain access.    

[RichRiderBills]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

what's a hack and where in those 20,000 words you read in that article did you conclude that's what he is?

 

enlighten us

 

Are you Dunne? He's regularly written hit pieces on McD and Beane. Had it out for them almost from the start. He had a preamble :13 second piece filled with stretchy garbage and conjecture 2 years ago. He hits McD like a part time job. I've heard he was a Monos and Whaley fan and is sour grapes since. 

[Cray51]

I don’t think Dunne has an ax to grind, I think he has bills to pay.  He knows these types of “hit piece” articles draw interest and pull in subscribers.  No one reads an article about how many former players like Sean.  Even if he acknowledges there may be some, he can find a few that don’t and make that the large part of the thesis of his writing.

 

its not personal against Sean, it’s using him as a way to pay bills and build his career.

 

which is why I agree with Micah, it’s a low blow.  But I see why he did it. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

This right here is very telling. Daboll was loved by his players on the Bills. 

 

 

Too much a friend, he had to go....

[Rico]

31 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

No press pass and never been treated w respect by the ball club. 

Don’t forget his clownshow good buddy who got tossed to the curb the day after McD’s first draft.

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, chongli said:

 

 

So is this a positive or a negative for Dunne?

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Hi Yolo. Happy to see your name pop-up.

 

Have to disagree though. I was listening to a Jets press conference a few days ago and their media was tearing into Saleh like a pack of dogs on a salisbury steak.

Isn't that just the Jets state of being? Or the infamous New York media, which they kind of create themselves by hyping it up.

[JPL7]

McD speaks a good game. He says all the right things that a Coach is supposed to say. But if you’re always going to say “it starts with me” and supposedly take accountability for the misnomers and mistakes, if you really mean that then you have to make changes with how you operate. What changes has he made besides firing coaches?

 

We are still seeing the same soft coverage on short pass plays. We are still seeing four down lineman on obvious short run plays. We saw him neuter Josh. If it starts with you, you have to change your method of operation.

 

The 9/11 story people are making a hullabaloo about is the least concern I’d have for him as coach. How about be more concerned by a stat like this…

 

This season the Bills have lost 6 games by 6 points or less in the first 12 weeks of the season. In the history of the nfl only 20 other teams have matched that total. One of the most recent teams to do that?? The 2012 Carolina Panthers. Any idea who their D coordinator might have been that season??

 

Which proves he DOESNT CHANGE! You can’t consider yourself “accountable” if all you do is say “I take responsibility”or “it all starts with me”. You have to actually modify your behaviors and patterns and actually change your ways.

Edited December 9, 2023 by JPL7

[Cray51]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Too much a friend, he had to go....

I thought it was clear Sean was not a fan of how Daboll criticized players openly, which Daboll has had an issue with in New York as well.

[wettlaufer]

2 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

I don’t think Dunne has an ax to grind, I think he has bills to pay.  He knows these types of “hit piece” articles draw interest and pull in subscribers.  No one reads an article about how many former players like Sean.  Even if he acknowledges there may be some, he can find a few that don’t and make that the large part of the thesis of his writing.

 

its not personal against Sean, it’s using him as a way to pay bills and build his career.

 

which is why I agree with Micah, it’s a low blow.  But I see why he did it. 

 

There are TONS of people with media platforms that don't do their work and just rely on stats and highlights. Dunne is not one of them.

 

Guy gets 25 interview subjects, not all of whom are universally negative and which Dunne does not conceal, which constitutes the very soul of good journalism and hard work. He has bills to pay, sure. Just like you and me. People burning him down having zero framework for what represents good journalism, and based on one tiny detail in 20,000 words (the 9/11 dumbassery) should just calm down and read and think.

 

The Chad Hall thing was the worst piece of it. It's insane. But the late game failures, which all reflect upon McD's being tight and unable to act as a member of a coaching team, are all on Sean.

 

Dunne didn't claim these things -- 25 colleagues of McD said this in a journalistically integral, hard-working piece. Do people understand this is a lunch pail profession? These people don't get paid much and it's sometimes very noticeable. In the case of Dunne, it's obvious he is well-sourced and credible.

[Mr. WEO]

14 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

If not an axe he had an agenda. 

 

what's on his agenda?

 

8 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

Are you Dunne? He's regularly written hit pieces on McD and Beane. Had it out for them almost from the start. He had a preamble :13 second piece filled with stretchy garbage and conjecture 2 years ago. He hits McD like a part time job. I've heard he was a Monos and Whaley fan and is sour grapes since. 

 

You can answer my question now.  Where, when reading this long form article, did you discover his hackery and sharpening axe?  what should he not have written about?

[BananaB]

38 minutes ago, schoolhouserock said:

25 former coaches, players, and other personnel speak anonymously about someone else’s accountability. Ha!

 

I loathe everything about this.

I think the biggest question is the number of guys he used info from for this story. He may of interviewed 25, doesn’t mean they all gave him similar info. No doubt in my mind one of the major contributors is Quentin Spain. 

[wettlaufer]

1 hour ago, BuffaloMatt said:

That's why he lessened his credibility by using something that he didn't need to use. But instead he chose to use it and that shows his intent. 

 

It was on a laundry list of weird behavior by McD, not a headline item. Yeah, he used it. It's weird. But it was a very minor part of the story. His intent has been very clear in his work as a journalist: to be thorough, ethical, diligent in pursuit of his duties, and entertaining. He did that here.

[Cray51]

2 minutes ago, wettlaufer said:

 

There are TONS of people with media platforms that don't do their work and just rely on stats and highlights. Dunne is not one of them.

 

Guy gets 25 interview subjects, not all of whom are universally negative and which Dunne does not conceal, which constitutes the very soul of good journalism and hard work. He has bills to pay, sure. Just like you and me. People burning him down having zero framework for what represents good journalism, and based on one tiny detail in 20,000 words (the 9/11 dumbassery) should just calm down and read and think.

 

The Chad Hall thing was the worst piece of it. It's insane. But the late game failures, which all reflect upon McD's being tight and unable to act as a member of a coaching team, are all on Sean.

 

Dunne didn't claim these things -- 25 colleagues of McD said this in a journalistically integral, hard-working piece. Do people understand this is a lunch pail profession? These people don't get paid much and it's sometimes very noticeable. In the case of Dunne, it's obvious he is well-sourced and credible.

I understand why he approached the article in the way he did.  I’m not preaching about Sean, and he has valid criticism.  But Dunne uses terms and descriptors to point the reader towards a negative association of Sean.  He does a good job being thorough, and he isn’t a hack.  But it’s not boring to a point, it’s sensationalized in its descriptors in an effort to carry the reader through an article.

 

its JJ Reddick without the player perspective.

 

i guess I just don’t have a lot of care for this type of journalism.  I don’t care if Sean is an ass, as long as the results show.  And really, nobody cares about Chad Hall or former players opinions or the 9/11 comments if the team is winning.  So when we have 70 pages of people talking about it, I guess I just don’t care for it.  It doesn’t really matter.  So the timing, coming off of a bye, leading to the most important game of the season, I find annoying because it takes the team away from the focus they need… winning the game.  
 

im probably old man on this, but I now know this will become a discussion point of the Bills, and if they lose anyone can point to this as a reason, and now we

open the door to this being a major part of this teams brand moving forward

[Wayne Arnold]

24 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

Are you Dunne? He's regularly written hit pieces on McD and Beane. Had it out for them almost from the start. He had a preamble :13 second piece filled with stretchy garbage and conjecture 2 years ago. He hits McD like a part time job. I've heard he was a Monos and Whaley fan and is sour grapes since. 

 

When did Dunne write a "hit piece" (oh the drama, Good Lord) on Beane?

[stevestojan]

So we lose a heartbreaker to the Eagles but then head into the BYE week so at least nothing bad can happen; guys can rest up.

Then, our insanely overpaid DE gets arrested for domestic violence, and it comes out that our HC compared his team to the 9/11 hijackers a few years ago, and that former players and coaches hate him. 
 

Where is that thread telling me to never use the phrase “Billsy” again? 
 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by stevestojan

[HardyBoy]

So subordinates buying a new truck for a supervisor that has massive decision making power and control over future earnings is at best a massive perceived conflict of interest.

 

The source saying he "thought it was the coolest thing ever, but McD was jealous of the relationship the coach had with his players because McD did not have that type of relationship..."

 

So that really makes me question the lens through which the sources are seeing things through... I'm not saying the source is being at all dishonest, but I would be livid if I was a CEO of a company and found out that an employee bought their manager say a $5k vacation as a thank you for helping them do so well and get promoted.

 

It doesn't raise into question the honesty of the source at all, but it makes it very clear that that source does not have an understanding of what might have caused McD to behave how he behaved and attributed something to jealously, when I think it would be more McD felt subordinates giving gifts of value to supervisors is a huge at best perceived conflict of interest and there are potentially huge civil liabilities for that type of stuff/even if not the case, would absolutely be something I personally would not want as a part of my organizational culture...gifts should not flow up stream in an organization for a wide range of reasons

[RichRiderBills]

36 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

I don’t think Dunne has an ax to grind, I think he has bills to pay.  He knows these types of “hit piece” articles draw interest and pull in subscribers.  No one reads an article about how many former players like Sean.  Even if he acknowledges there may be some, he can find a few that don’t and make that the large part of the thesis of his writing.

 

its not personal against Sean, it’s using him as a way to pay bills and build his career.

 

which is why I agree with Micah, it’s a low blow.  But I see why he did it. 

 

Idk he was on McD right from word go. He thought Beane was a weak sauce crony hire as well. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

So subordinates buying a new truck for a supervisor that has massive decision making power and control over future earnings is at best a massive perceived conflict of interest.

 

The source saying he "thought it was the coolest thing ever, but McD was jealous of the relationship the coach had with his players because McD did not have that type of relationship..."

 

So that really makes me question the lens through which the sources are seeing things through... I'm not saying the source is being at all dishonest, but I would be livid if I was a CEO of a company and found out that an employee bought their manager say a $5k vacation as a thank you for helping them do so well and get promoted.

 

It doesn't raise into question the honesty of the source at all, but it makes it very clear that that source does not have an understanding of what might have caused McD to behave how he behaved and attributed something to jealously, when I think it would be more McD felt subordinates giving gifts of value to supervisors is a huge at best perceived conflict of interest and there are potentially huge civil liabilities for that type of stuff/even if not the case, would absolutely be something I personally would not want as a part of my organizational culture...gifts should not flow up stream in an organization for a wide range of reasons

That's a fair point, but if all of the receivers pitched in and paid for the truck, then the conflict of interest risk is minimized.  I'm also not sure how much say Hall would have had regarding playing time or who was making the roster.   

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Ehh, maybe. But most of what I see about Belichick from former players is how funny he actually is. Almost the opposite of McD who has a nice, friendly public demeanor but can't relate to his players.

 

Serious question: How do we know McDermott can't relate to his players?

[RichRiderBills]

16 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

When did Dunne write a "hit piece" (oh the drama, Good Lord) on Beane?

 

He's regularly critical of the drafting. 

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

That's a fair point, but if all of the receivers pitched in and paid for the truck, then the conflict of interest risk is minimized.  I'm also not sure how much say Hall would have had regarding playing time or who was making the roster.   

This isn’t exactly corporate America either. That gift was the equivalent of a normal supervisor getting a Christmas gift. 

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Serious question: How do we know McDermott can't relate to his players?

He has Michael Jackson as his favorite singer. Where would you put your money? 

[QCity]

9 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

but I would be livid if I was a CEO of a company and found out that an employee bought their manager say a $5k vacation as a thank you for helping them do so well and get promoted.

 

What if it was every employee working under that manager? And what if every employee was making more money than the manager, some up to 25X more? And what if some of those employees had more job security than the manager? That analogy doesn't work.

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, mannc said:

That's a fair point, but if all of the receivers pitched in and paid for the truck, then the conflict of interest risk is minimized.  I'm also not sure how much say Hall would have had regarding playing time or who was making the roster.   

It's not really a good comparison

 

In this case some of the subordinates make like 20x what the supervisor does

3 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

What if it was every employee working under that manager? And what if every employee was making more money than the manager, some up to 25X more? And what if some of those employees had more job security than the manager? That analogy doesn't work.

Lol exactly

[HardyBoy]

12 minutes ago, mannc said:

That's a fair point, but if all of the receivers pitched in and paid for the truck, then the conflict of interest risk is minimized.  I'm also not sure how much say Hall would have had regarding playing time or who was making the roster.   

 

No, the perceived conflict of interest is equally there...it's gotta be a near $100k gift

 

He has a ton of say over gameplans and playing time and who is being featured in the passing game though and if he says he doesn't think someone is a good culture fit they're absolutely gone.

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, mannc said:

That's a fair point, but if all of the receivers pitched in and paid for the truck, then the conflict of interest risk is minimized.  I'm also not sure how much say Hall would have had regarding playing time or who was making the roster.   

 

It's my understanding the position coaches grade their players weekly on practice prep and game performance if they play.

They aren't the determining voice as to whether or not a player is active - that would be the OC, DC, ST, HC, and Beane and ultimately HC

But, they do have input.  SIGNIFICANT input.

 

I agree that if ALL the players were involved equally, it does minimize conflict of interest to some degree. 

 

But I can still see why it would be considered problematic:

1) Did the players contribute equally?  If so, younger players on PS and cheap rookie deals might potentially feel a bit coerced vs guys on multi-million deals.  IF not ad it becomes known, there's that Conflict of Interest risk.

 

2) Does it change the coaching picture?  I could see where the coach might find it harder to "get in the Grill" of a player who, after all, participated in GIVING ME A BRAND NEW TRUCK

 

3) Then what about next year and the following year?  That rookie and the newly-signed vet didn't GIVE YOU A TRUCK, so the conflict of interest is there.  Why is Player M seeing the field so much more than Player S, who seems to have higher potential?  Is he really grading out better in practice?  Or does the truck gift weight the grading?

 

Anyway, other assistant coaches are 100% entitled to feel that the truck was a super-cool super-moving story and McDermott Shat on the parade, but I'm kind of leaning towards the whole picture of what's reasonable, might be a bit more nuanced.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[FireChans]

40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

what's on his agenda?

 

 

You can answer my question now.  Where, when reading this long form article, did you discover his hackery and sharpening axe?  what should he not have written about?

I thought the “Dorsey is next on the block” was a bit hackery.

 

I think anyone with a brain had higher odds on Dorsey getting fired this year more than anyone else on the staff. And rightfully so with a bipolar offense that didn’t have a counter punch last year. 
 

That quote sounded really axe to grind like imo 

 

 

[Beck Water]

14 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

He has Michael Jackson as his favorite singer. Where would you put your money? 

 

I mean, Josh Allen has Justin Bieber and Frank Sinatra, so not sure of your point?

 

Guys have to have the same musical taste before they can relate to people now?

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[wettlaufer]

28 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

i guess I just don’t have a lot of care for this type of journalism.  I don’t care if Sean is an ass, as long as the results show. 

They do not, however. I think Dunne's article illuminates why that may be the case. Few things can be boiled down to one variable, but we can all see McD freezing up and blowing a lot of games. I think our fan base is really wrapped up in the details of this 20,000 word piece and dodging the bottom line: McD is a very shaky leader and shrinks in the big moments. Dunne didn't say that. The majority of his 25 sources did.

[Wayne Arnold]

14 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

He's regularly critical of the drafting. 

 

That's what you consider a "hit piece"?

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It's my understanding the position coaches grade their players weekly on practice prep and game performance if they play.

They aren't the determining voice as to whether or not a player is active - that would be the OC, DC, ST, HC, and Beane and ultimately HC

But, they do have input.  SIGNIFICANT input.

 

I agree that if ALL the players were involved equally, it does minimize conflict of interest to some degree. 

 

But I can still see why it would be considered problematic:

1) Did the players contribute equally?  If so, younger players on PS and cheap rookie deals might potentially feel a bit coerced vs guys on multi-million deals.  IF not ad it becomes known, there's that Conflict of Interest risk.

 

2) Does it change the coaching picture?  I could see where the coach might find it harder to "get in the Grill" of a player who, after all, participated in GIVING ME A BRAND NEW TRUCK

 

3) Then what about next year and the following year?  That rookie and the newly-signed vet didn't GIVE YOU A TRUCK, so the conflict of interest is there.  Why is Player M seeing the field so much more than Player S, who seems to have higher potential?  Is he really grading out better in practice?  Or does the truck gift weight the grading?

 

Anyway, other assistant coaches are 100% entitled to feel that the truck was a super-cool super-moving story and McDermott Shat on the parade, but I'm kind of leaning towards the whole picture of what's reasonable, might be a bit more nuanced.

Ok, fair enough.  But did the Bills have a policy regarding such gifts?  Given the amount of money the players have, if the organization was concerned about the real or perceived conflict of interest created by gifts like this, then you would expect there to be a "no gift" policy, or a limit on such gifts.  Policies like that are common in corporate America... 

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

Idk he was on McD right from word go. He thought Beane was a weak sauce crony hire as well. 

 

I don't know if it's true, but someone upthread said Dunne is close to disgruntled ex-employees Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon.  He's also had ex-employee Jim Monos on his show a fair bit.

 

I agree that it's probably looking out for Dunne's bottom line in drawing in subscribers rather than motivated as a hit piece but if two align, well....

 

....and the Conspiracy Theorist at the back of my skull keeps poking me and saying "what if someone on the Chiefs paid Dunne off?"

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I mean, Josh Allen has Justin Bieber and Frank Sinatra, so not sure of your point?

 

Guys have to have the same musical taste before they can relate to people now?

Michael Jackson is the answer you give if you don't have an answer. Frank Sinatra is the answer you give if you want to be trendy and cool in your 20's.  

[HardyBoy]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It's my understanding the position coaches grade their players weekly on practice prep and game performance if they play.

They aren't the determining voice as to whether or not a player is active - that would be the OC, DC, ST, HC, and Beane and ultimately HC

But, they do have input.  SIGNIFICANT input.

 

I agree that if ALL the players were involved equally, it does minimize conflict of interest to some degree. 

 

But I can still see why it would be considered problematic:

1) Did the players contribute equally?  If so, younger players on PS and cheap rookie deals might potentially feel a bit coerced vs guys on multi-million deals.  IF not ad it becomes known, there's that Conflict of Interest risk.

 

2) Does it change the coaching picture?  I could see where the coach might find it harder to "get in the Grill" of a player who, after all, participated in GIVING ME A BRAND NEW TRUCK

 

3) Then what about next year and the following year?  That rookie and the newly-signed vet didn't GIVE YOU A TRUCK, so the conflict of interest is there.  Why is Player M seeing the field so much more than Player S, who seems to have higher potential?  Is he really grading out better in practice?  Or does the truck gift weight the grading?

 

Anyway, other assistant coaches are 100% entitled to feel that the truck was a super-cool super-moving story and McDermott Shat on the parade, but I'm kind of leaning towards the whole picture of what's reasonable, might be a bit more nuanced.

 

Exactly, I would be really upset as a CEO if that happened.

 

It doesn't make what the source said untrue, but it makes it very obvious the source does not understand the big picture or what might be going through McDs head when he's acting the way he's acting...the source said it was because McD was jealous, when it likely has nothing at all to do with that.

 

It raises a lot of questions on if the sources have the proper big picture view to understand the motivations behind McDs behavior and maybe them not understanding the true reason for it...it's concerning in terms of trusting the article

[Beck Water]

Just now, mannc said:

Ok, fair enough.  But did the Bills have a policy regarding such gifts?  Given the amount of money the players have, if the organization was concerned about the real or perceived conflict of interest created by gifts like this, then you would expect there to be a "no gift" policy, or a limit on such gifts.  Policies like that are common in corporate America... 

 

Don't Know. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

19 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Serious question: How do we know McDermott can't relate to his players?

 

Well, the large number of sources that Dunne found didn't come from the ether... the piece clearly was to put pressure on McDermott and if the piece is accurate then he will probably crack and it will cause a further rift. It's a mere waiting game now...

[BillsSbSoon]

If you think over the years we’ve been getting screwed by bad officiating before, wait till you see what probably happens now. Dunne is a punk for putting out this hit piece, but Sean said what he said and admitted it. And just embarassed the organization in a really bad way. He needs to go it doesn’t seem likes it’s recoverable.