Beane Presser 12.6.23 - interesting comments on Von

[TampaBillsJunkie]

GM "we aren't investigators"
Translation: If Von can help us win football games, then we keep him until the league disciplines him. 

[Governor]

Oh jeez. What a terribly tone deaf answer. When it rains it pours.

 

Its time to get these hucksters out of here.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Governor

[HardyBoy]

We don't know the situation, for all we know she could have massive narcissistic personality disorder and he's been being significantly emotionally abused for a really long time. Emotional abuse is abuse and I'm not here to rank if physical abuse is worse than emotional abuse, both are awful and both are abuse.

 

There is something called Reactive Abuse where a narcissist basically knows the things to do to get someone to react emotionally so they can play the victim (I'm not making the "look what you made me do" excuse a physical abuser makes, which I would think typically is actually them instigating reactive abuse and using it as an excuse to physically abuse someone).

 

I don't know that his girlfriend is a narcissist, this is pure speculation, but there is a potential situation here where Miller absolutely is a victim of significant emotional abuse and handled it in an incredibly awful way and needs to be getting help, not playing football, because you cannot put your hands on someone's neck and squeeze hard enough to leave bruises, because he could have killed her if they happened...but this could be a hugely nuanced situation without a good answer, but it certainly sounds like he needs help getting out of that relationship and that is where his focus should be. I'm really not sure the smartest thing right now would be for the Bills to suspend him, not let him be in the facility and have him go back home to Texas right now either.

 

I'm not excusing his behavior at all and I'm wildly speculating...my speculation is looking for reasons why the team is taking this approach...there is one other thing I am thinking that could make sense, specifically on what might have been being threatened and why they keep talking about her "travel plans"

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

8 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

We don't know the situation, for all we know she could have massive narcissistic personality disorder and he's been being significantly emotionally abused for a really long time. Emotional abuse is abuse and I'm not here to rank if physical abuse is worse than emotional abuse, both are awful and both are abuse.

 

There is something called Reactive Abuse where a narcissist basically knows the things to do to get someone to react emotionally so they can play the victim (I'm not making the "look what you made me do" excuse a physical abuser makes, which I would think typically is actually them instigating reactive abuse and using it as an excuse to physically abuse someone).

 

I don't know that his girlfriend is a narcissist, this is pure speculation, but there is a potential situation here where Miller absolutely is a victim of significant emotional abuse and handled it in an incredibly awful way and needs to be getting help, not playing football, because you cannot put your hands on someone's neck and squeeze hard enough to leave bruises, because he could have killed her if they happened...but this could be a hugely nuanced situation without a good answer, but it certainly sounds like he needs help getting out of that relationship and that is where his focus should be. I'm really not sure the smartest thing right now would be for the Bills to suspend him, not let him be in the facility and have him go back home to Texas right now either.

 

I'm not excusing his behavior at all and I'm wildly speculating...my speculation is looking for reasons why the team is taking this approach...there is one other thing I am thinking that could make sense, specifically on what might have been being threatened and why they keep talking about her "travel plans"

 

Good post, good insight. 
 

At the least this is a toxic relationship and both should be getting the help they need, for the sake of their children. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

....and the multiple bruises were just elaborate makeup.....

Pulled the OL’ Amber Heard. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

3 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Pulled the OL’ Amber Heard. 

 

If a woman is crazy enough to fake injuries to try and drum up DV charges against their significant other they aren't going to recant their claims and say nothing happened the next day. 

 

I'm having a very hard time believing that Von Miller was not physically abusive in this instance. What's the alternative? That she self inflicted these injuries to try and destroy his career and then regretted it the next day? That there was some other random guy that did it? 

 

Please...

[Jauronimo]

5 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

I legitimately didn’t know there were vet rest days coming off a bye week. Rest from what? That’s all they’ve been doing during their week off. 

Maybe from beatin....you know what, never mind.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

If a woman is crazy enough to fake injuries to try and drum up DV charges against their significant other they aren't going to recant their claims and say nothing happened the next day. 

 

I'm having a very hard time believing that Von Miller was not physically abusive in this instance. What's the alternative? That she self inflicted these injuries to try and destroy his career and then regretted it the next day? That there was some other random guy that did it? 

 

Please...

Oh I'm sure she was most definitely abused. But I'm also sure she started thinking about all the money not available to her anymore.  Which leads to the backpedaling.  It's called human nature.  This whole thing is messed up.

[iccrewman112]

12 hours ago, zow2 said:

What i liked is that when asked about playing time, Beane said the best will be on the field regardless of their name.  And he specifically said if Von is not one of the best players on gameday, to help win these crucial games, he won't be in there.

I guess the last few weeks weren’t critical games then.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

16 hours ago, zow2 said:

What i liked is that when asked about playing time, Beane said the best will be on the field regardless of their name.  And he specifically said if Von is not one of the best players on gameday, to help win these crucial games, he won't be in there.

If that’s the case Von should never be on the field at all. He’s been horrible has no burst no speed when he’s out there it’s like the defense has a handicap 

[RichRiderBills]

I just can't believe the stuff on this thread. 

 

Folks, there is an affidavit with numerous details. Physical evidence. Then law enforcement swore to the validation of these articulable facts, it was scrutinized by a judge and a warrant was issued. I repeat: there is physical evidence, possible also multiple phones w video and audio evidence, and real documented injuries.  There is a detailed 911 call from the event as well. 

 

Then we have a radio station saying she recanted. It's so common for victims to recant and play down DV events, especially when spouses are wealthy or physically overpowering. The capper is Von has been accused of this before. 

 

I can't say it's not possible the wife made aspects up or exaggerated, but it's more likely Von did do this in some form . 

 

Yes, innocent until proven guilty. However in the NFL making 20 million per year their is a status quo of many folks being suspended or placed on admin leave while the process plays out. This would most certainly happen to many professionals like teachers, cops, politicians, or business folks. 

 

Just a bad look by the Bills here who are actually lying or blindly ignoring data that is readily at hand. 

 

Beane says he doesn't have enough info yet, but the affidavit has been released and the 911 call also reviewed by the same Dallas news organizations. 

 

Says waiting for him to get charged or does not think he will be charged when he has been formally charged with an aggravated felony. 

 

Just a terrible look for Beane and the Bills. Really makes me question everything w this staff. Frankly, my ability to root on the team. 

[Bill from NYC]

When I recently got into a petty dispute with my wife, I choked her, threaten to kill her, and pulled out chunks of her hair.  After I finished, everyone who  knows us labels it as a "misunderstanding", even though it was my second time doing so. Now, I will just resume my normal affairs. You see? Beane makes a strong point.  Nobody should jump the gun and judge Miller as human filth. 

 

Anyway, McDermott and his flunky Beane need to be kicked to the curb and tossed out of Buffalo.

[Bill from NYC]

10 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

....and the multiple bruises were just elaborate makeup.....

Of course. And thousands of women pull out their own hair.

[Bob Jones]

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

Of course. And thousands of women pull out their own hair.

If they're Bills fans, and it's game day, I would concur with this statement. 😂

[Bill from NYC]

1 minute ago, Bob Jones said:

If they're Bills fans, and it's game day, I would concur with this statement. 😂

Excellent!!!

[Livinginthepast]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

When I recently got into a petty dispute with my wife, I choked her, threaten to kill her, and pulled out chunks of her hair.  After I finished, everyone who  knows us labels it as a "misunderstanding", even though it was my second time doing so. Now, I will just resume my normal affairs. You see? Beane makes a strong point.  Nobody should jump the gun and judge Miller as human filth. 

 

Anyway, McDermott and his flunky Beane need to be kicked to the curb and tossed out of Buffalo.

I guess for Beane and McD its an "ethical" dilemma. Either you support the victim of physical abuse or you support your "star" player that you signed for huge$. Actually put that way its not really an ethical dilemma at all. In addition, from purely a selfish Bills perspective, Von doesnt even offer much on the field right now that makes it even worth it to dress him. So if Von and his "innocence" is the hill they want to die on, I guess thats their plan.

[FLFan]

13 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Being arrested means he was charged. 

This is actually not true.  Please see the article linked for an explanation.  The third paragraph in particular.  A person arrested may or may not be formally charged with a crime.  That is a separate step, and Miller has not yet been charged.

 

https://www.jasonenglishlaw.com/understanding-arrest-vs-conviction-in-texas

Edited December 7, 2023 by FLFan

[Kaenon]

18 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

That was just GM talk. It’s not dramatic to say Von Miller has been a massive liability every time he’s been on the field this season. Poona Ford legitimately offers more than Miller does right now.

And I totally forgot Poona Ford was on the Bills, lol!

[HardyBoy]

31 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

I guess for Beane and McD its an "ethical" dilemma. Either you support the victim of physical abuse or you support your "star" player that you signed for huge$. Actually put that way its not really an ethical dilemma at all. In addition, from purely a selfish Bills perspective, Von doesnt even offer much on the field right now that makes it even worth it to dress him. So if Von and his "innocence" is the hill they want to die on, I guess thats their plan.

 

This sitatuation has the feel of an episode of an early season Law & Order... I'm speculating, but there is a chance this is highly morally and ethically challenging and nuanced...thankfully if we assume he did put his hands on her neck and squeezed, he didn't crush her windpipe or something.

 

I've been thinking about why Beane said what he said yesterday, and again I'm arriving at this being a super highly nuanced situation and a horribly toxic relationship, which doesn't excuse his behavior, but from a moral and ethical perspective it's a very different thing if he is a malignant narcissists who is perpetrating ongoing emotional and physical abuse (if this was the case I strongly believe Beane would have made him inactive and suspended him from the team) vs her being a malignant narcissist who is perpetrating ongoing emotional abuse for years and years and was utilizing reactive abuse to get him to react in a horrible way so she could make him feel shame in a calculated way. 

 

 

I'm not exusing the behavior, he could have killed her, but given the extremely limited information we have and Beane's support and what she texted out last time with the screen shots of Miller's texts, I am leaning towards this...and I have a theory on exactly what she was saying to get him to react and where she was saying she was traveling to, which I'm already wildly speculating enough, I'll leave it there.

[Bangarang]

57 minutes ago, FLFan said:

This is actually not true.  Please see the article linked for an explanation.  The third paragraph in particular.  A person arrested may or may not be formally charged with a crime.  That is a separate step, and Miller has not yet been charged.

 

https://www.jasonenglishlaw.com/understanding-arrest-vs-conviction-in-texas

It is true. Being arrested means you are charged with a crime. That’s the entire point. The charges could eventually be dismissed and the case never goes to court. But make no mistake, an arrest warrant requires a charge or charges. As does being booked into a jail and posting bond. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Bangarang

[DCofNC]

19 hours ago, zow2 said:

What i liked is that when asked about playing time, Beane said the best will be on the field regardless of their name.  And he specifically said if Von is not one of the best players on gameday, to help win these crucial games, he won't be in there.

Now you know he’s lying

[WotAGuy]

22 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

It is true. Being arrested means you are charged with a crime. That’s the entire point. The charges could eventually be dismissed and the case never goes to court. But make no mistake, an arrest warrant requires a charge or charges. As does being booked into a jail and posting bond. 

I do think there are semantics at work here.  There are “charges” a person is accused of and can be arrested for.  But there is also a formal filing of charges where the prosecutor has various timeframes in which to file the charges. 
 

How this applies in Texas is explained clearly in the first two pages in this link. I think the confusion is Von has been accused of “charges” and been arrested on that basis.  However, I have not seen confirmation that the prosecutor has formally filed charges and that Von has been arraigned to make his plea in response to the charges “filed”. 
 

The lack of charges being filed seems to be what the NFL and Bills are waiting for in terms of any disciplinary action. 
 

https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Our_Legal_System1&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=23456

Edited December 7, 2023 by WotAGuy

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

I do think there are semantics at work here.  There are “charges” a person is accused of and can be arrested for.  But there is also a formal filing of charges where the prosecutor has various timeframes in which to file the charges. 
 

How this applies in Texas is explained clearly in the first two pages in this link. I think the confusion is Von has been accused of “charges” and been arrested on that basis.  However, I have not seen confirmation that the prosecutor has formally filed charges and that Von has been arraigned to make his plea in response to the charges “filed”. 
 

The lack of charges being filed seems to be what the NFL and Bills are waiting for in terms of any disciplinary action. 
 

https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Our_Legal_System1&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=23456

Without those formal charges, there’s not much to do, they’ll end up in court with the Players Union if they do.

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

It is true. Being arrested means you are charged with a crime. That’s the entire point. The charges could eventually be dismissed and the case never goes to court. But make no mistake, an arrest warrant requires a charge or charges. As does being booked into a jail and posting bond. 

Read the article, written by a lawyer in Texas who might know more than you.  You can be arrested based on probable cause which is what has happened.  The decision to bring formal charges is made separately and may or may not occur.  Being arrested and being charged are two different things.

[RichRiderBills]

For God's sake the legal beagles that show up. He was charged. He was arrested, booked, arraigned and posted bail. They can't propose bail or keep you detained after arrest without charging. If Von had not posted bond he'd still be in the can. 

 

I'm not going to dispute that you can be arrested without being charged in some cases. But, not when a warrant was issued, executed and those subsequent steps occured. 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by RichRiderBills

[WotAGuy]

12 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

For God's sake the legal beagles that show up. He was charged. He was arrested, booked, arraigned and posted bail. They can't propose bail or keep you detained after arrest without charging. If Von had not posted bond he'd still be in the can. 

 

I'm not going to dispute that you can be arrested without being charged in some cases. Not when a warrant was issued, executed and those subsequent steps occured. 

 

 

How did he plea?  I hadn’t heard that he was arraigned. 

[jaab1028]

This organization sorely misses Kim Pegula,no way would she be in agreement with this.😪

[Mango]

3 hours ago, FLFan said:

This is actually not true.  Please see the article linked for an explanation.  The third paragraph in particular.  A person arrested may or may not be formally charged with a crime.  That is a separate step, and Miller has not yet been charged.

 

https://www.jasonenglishlaw.com/understanding-arrest-vs-conviction-in-texas

 

I believe Von Miller needing to post bail is the kicker here. 

Let me start by saying I am not an attorney, but I do not believe you can be held for bail without a charge. On the other end of the spectrum, you wouldn't be held on bail if you were brought in for questioning. 

[RichRiderBills]

30 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

How did he plea?  I hadn’t heard that he was arraigned. 

 

I would guess not guilty, but he may not have been arraigned. Since it would be by complaint, that may happen after indicted or PC hearing. That may be the kicker. He's certainly had an initial however. 

[WotAGuy]

Just now, RichRiderBills said:

 

I would guess not guilty, but he may not have been arraigned. Since it would be by complaint, that may happen after indicted or PC hearing. That may be the kicker. He's certainly had an initial however. 

So, like the rest of us, you don’t know what exactly has happened?

[RichRiderBills]

10 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I believe Von Miller needing to post bail is the kicker here. 

Let me start by saying I am not an attorney, but I do not believe you can be held for bail without a charge. On the other end of the spectrum, you wouldn't be held on bail if you were brought in for questioning. 

 

Yeah for a short time for investigative detention but not for long. That's a fairly substantial constitutional violation. 

[RichRiderBills]

2 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

So, like the rest of us, you don’t know what exactly has happened?

 

I've never argued that I knew everything. I know enough and enough facts are record and easily obtained that Beane was being slick and slimy w his take. It's a bad look for the Bills. 

 

In fact, not knowing the whole deal is precisely the argument to put Von on some form of shelf. We don't know how this will go, and if I were Buff I'd play it safe. 

[Mango]

40 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

Yeah for a short time for investigative detention but not for long. That's a fairly substantial constitutional violation. 

 

Are you an attorney by chance? 

I have posited a few times that I think a lot of the grey area about charges or lack there of is the league/Bills working to try and bury the body cam and recordings submitted to police during the incident. 
 

[WotAGuy]

27 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Are you an attorney by chance? 

I have posited a few times that I think a lot of the grey area about charges or lack there of is the league/Bills working to try and bury the body cam and recordings submitted to police during the incident. 
 

How would the league/Bills go about this?

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

How would the league/Bills go about this?

 

One of two things that are happening right now: 

1. Working with local officials to either keep the case open. Open investigations are not subject to FOIA. 

2. Create a grey area where charges may or may not be officially filed. 

I believe both of these things were noted in the presser. Both would give Dallas enough teeth to decline any FOIA request (Texas is PIA). 
 

[WotAGuy]

10 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

One of two things that are happening right now: 

1. Working with local officials to either keep the case open. Open investigations are not subject to FOIA. 

2. Create a grey area where charges may or may not be officially filed. 

I believe both of these things were noted in the presser. Both would give Dallas enough teeth to decline any FOIA request (Texas is PIA). 
 

So you don’t think he has been charged - i.e. had charges officially filed yet?

[yall]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

I believe Von Miller needing to post bail is the kicker here. 

Let me start by saying I am not an attorney, but I do not believe you can be held for bail without a charge. On the other end of the spectrum, you wouldn't be held on bail if you were brought in for questioning. 

I agree the bail makes it likely there was actually a charge of some sort.

 

I'm not aware of anyone being able to post bail absent some kind of charge being brought against you.

 

 

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

So you don’t think he has been charged - i.e. had charges officially filed yet?

 

Not a lawyer, so let me start there. 

But I believe he should have been if he posted bail. And via my own access to the internet it seems like that could even be a violation of the constitution if he wasn't. 

I do believe that the reason this is muddled is due to league/buffalo bills involvement in trying to slow/stop the process via request. Not 

[LabattBlue]

McD, BB & TP are all phonies, and I never want to hear about process and culture again, if they allow Thug Miller to be active Sunday or any other game this year. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by LabattBlue

[Big Turk]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:31 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Hate those misunderstandings with signed court statements from police and medical staff. 
 

 

 

Was Miller there when the police arrived?  On video shown doing this?  Did someone else witness it?  

 

Outside of that, this ends up being a "he said, she said" situation and that is called "hearsay" in a court of law.

 

Do you know how badly she will get eviscerated by his defense attorney if she takes the stand? It would get ugly.  

 

And if she refuses to testify, or even worse, testifies for the defense, how is that going to look for the prosecution?  They would then get eviscerated by the defense attorney.

 

Unless the DA has some other evidence I don't see how he gets charged with this, too much in the unknown category and too many leaps and assumptions would need to be made that can't be proven. DA's don't like trying cases they know they are unlikely to be able to win, it makes them look bad when they are up for re-election.

 

Remember, just like Denzell famously said in Training Day - "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove!"

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Big Turk