This team never makes a big stop

[colin]

our d played with their hair on fire, but it ends up being too much of guys screaming all over the field and not making tackles.  we just miss too many tackles over and over again.

 

the biggest issue from my pov is that the opponents all do the same ish against us on D because the same thing always seems to work against us.  i bet we see zone more than any other team in the nfl, yet we are dumbfounded to beat it.

 

on the other side, we still go a great job taking away the deep pass (the entire nfl is doing that now, more or less, so mcd and co were at least innovators there), but up the gut runs, picked up blitzes, and just plain old zone beater routes means a smart O can just know what they have to do, usually based on the pre snap read.

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Nope. Crunch time you need to make a stop. This is not a one time thing .

 

4 times this year they needed a stop when they were leading or needed a stop in the 4th to have a chance.

Want to know what the results are?

 

0-4.

 

Jax- 2 TDs in a row to salt the game away

NE- GW drive to mac jones

cinci- drains the clock

Den- GW drive to Russell Wilson

 

The offence is def the reason they lost in a vacuum . But the defence is to blame as well as it’s the same story with them in the 4th quarter 

What is the Bills record when the opposing offense scores 21 points or more?

Edited November 14, 2023 by FireChans

[The Jokeman]

4 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

The offense suddenly appears in clutch moments. The defense disappears.

because the defense kept the game close to allow the offense to keep it a one score game but truth be told if the offense produces another field goal then we win. It's why McDermott is calling for complimentary football, the offense has to keep the ball or sustain drives to score more points or at the very least allow the defense to be less winded in the ending minutes. 

[BeastMaster]

Just now, Johnnycage46 said:

It's too convenient to blame the defense.  They were on the field for 40 minutes compared to our O's 20 mins of possession.  They held up pretty much all game and it was bound to happen with the way the offense insists on screwing around for 85% of most games.  Instead of blaming the defense...point the blame at Allen and the coaching staff.  They lost this game, the Jets game, and the Patriots game.

You have to hold the defense and the coach who is supposed to be a guru on that side to not let the Mac Jones of the world to march down the field when a stop wins the game.

 

Bottom line is that Josh has done enough multiple times to set this team up to win with two minutes or less, and the defense folds.

 

[DrBob806]

28 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

The Broncos had 4 drives start in our territory and only got 6 points on those. I would say they made big stops

Pretty much.

 

My perhaps stupid take is no team is ever able to defend a shovel pass.....that was the play that broke the Bills last night. Wilson made a desperation play & it worked.

12 men on the field, well that's just inexusable. That's on the players, ST captain, & coach. In McD's defense, he can't micro mnage every darn play, he trusts his assistants. 

 

This one really stings. I can't imagine the locker room now.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

21 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Recency bias.  You can go back numerous times since McD was here and see plays where the D won the game.

 

Taron Johnson intercepting Mahomes to end the game last year was one.

 

This offense is unacceptable and the fact people want to act like because they gave us a lead late that it somehow falls on the D is laughable.  They are the only reason the Bills weren't down by 20+ after handing them 4 TO's and an average drive start of their own 42 yard line.  So tired of watching this offense remind me of the Dick Jauron/Chan Gailey/Doug Marrone era offenses.  Inexcusable.

On a turnover. That’s the only times ever. I said, if we aren’t turning someone over we don’t ever stop them. That’s not something you can count on. If we don’t turn a team over they go right down the field on us. It’s not sustainable 

[Yobogoya!]

14 minutes ago, zow2 said:

13 seconds is the big "didn't get the big stop" moment, but yeah, there's been countless others.  Just this season, we've seen the offense finally show up late and the D could not get that one big stop against Denver, Cinci, Mac Jones, Jags.  And they didn't even stop the NY Giants, they got kinda lucky.  There's so many more including all those OT losses...

 

Yeah that's what gets me: the defense has made stops and played well at times, but the guys they simply aren't closing out games against...

 

Zach Wilson. Mac Jones. The shell of Russell Wilson. Even Tyrod should have won that game for the Giants if we're being honest. But how did we let it even come to that ref's split second decision against Tyrod Taylor and the worst offense in the league??

 

Even battered and bruised, a defense should be able to close out against those types of QB's. Every time. 

[BananaB]

2 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

It's too convenient to blame the defense.  They were on the field for 40 minutes compared to our O's 20 mins of possession.  They held up pretty much all game and it was bound to happen with the way the offense insists on screwing around for 85% of most games.  Instead of blaming the defense...point the blame at Allen and the coaching staff.  They lost this game, the Jets game, and the Patriots game.

It’s not because it’s happening so much. It’s not even like we are playing good offences every week and still happens. The game is 60 minutes, I understand that they are on the field a lot but does it really look like they are exhausted on those drives or are they just getting beat? I myself think tired excuse is a copout. The only game where it looked like anyone was sucking wind was against the Jags. 

[Ramza86]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Wilson was averaging less than 5 yards a pass. The problem wasn't we rushed him, the problem was Taron got beat and had to recover and his first instinct was play the man not the ball and got flagged for it. Do we blame coaches or players at that point? It can go both ways but last night I blame Taron on that, as he's been horrible in coverage most of this season. 

 

You dont think its the coaches fault for not understanding the postion hes putting his players in?

 

You and I know Taron has been dog****......so why tf is mdcdermott putting him in that position?

 

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

You have to hold the defense and the coach who is supposed to be a guru on that side to not let the Mac Jones of the world to march down the field when a stop wins the game.

 

Bottom line is that Josh has done enough multiple times to set this team up to win with two minutes or less, and the defense folds.

 

Maybe Josh should have better clock management, instead of running for a go ahead TD fall down at the 1, it helped when Fred Jackson did  it against the Patriots a few years back and am sure are other NFL game examples I can't think of. 

[Avisan]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Wilson was averaging less than 5 yards a pass. The problem wasn't we rushed him, the problem was Taron got beat and had to recover and his first instinct was play the man not the ball and got flagged for it. Do we blame coaches or players at that point? It can go both ways but last night I blame Taron on that, as he's been horrible in coverage most of this season. 

Honestly the most frustrating part of this team is that birds-eye-view, things appear to be well-called.

 

Like, even all of the "OfFeNsE iS sChEmAtIcAlLy BrOkEn!!1!" videos involve breakdowns of plays where... there is a guy wide open for the first down that Allen just doesn't see because he locked on somewhere else.

 

The defensive play call worked, and Wilson had to throw up prayer ball that spent like five seconds in the air to keep the game alive.  Taron got beat clean off the line to start the play AND THEN made a boneheaded error trying to make up for the first mistake.  What level of situational incompetence can coaches reasonably be asked to plan for?  At what point is it coaching, and at what point is it players failing at their jobs?

 

How much can change with new coaching staff if the players just aren't getting it done?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

They do make big stops, and that is without 3 pillars on defense, but after they have been on the field all game yes they expectedly struggle toward the end.

 

Like has been mentioned, the defense also gets regularly screwed by being given short fields and yet still holds up often.

 

Once again, this is on the offense. 
 

Edit: I will say that someone has to stop slathering our defenders’ arms in butter pregame. Never seen so many missed sacks and tackles, and under a defensive-minded HC.

Edited November 14, 2023 by JohnBonhamRocks

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Ramza86 said:

 

You dont think its the coaches fault for not understanding the postion hes putting his players in?

 

You and I know Taron has been dog****......so why tf is mdcdermott putting him in that position?

 

He's the best option we have at this moment and he's shown he can make plays in years past. Blame the coaches all you want but sometimes players need to be accountable too. 

[Yobogoya!]

8 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Wilson was averaging less than 5 yards a pass. The problem wasn't we rushed him, the problem was Taron got beat and had to recover and his first instinct was play the man not the ball and got flagged for it. Do we blame coaches or players at that point? It can go both ways but last night I blame Taron on that, as he's been horrible in coverage most of this season. 

 

Taron running into a guy who's wide open from behind feels like a running gag at this point. 

 

Like Lucy yanking the ball away from Charlie Brown. Everyone knows it's coming, even Taron. But he can't help himself and does it anyway. 😂

[MikePJ76]

5 minutes ago, DrBob806 said:

Pretty much.

 

My perhaps stupid take is no team is ever able to defend a shovel pass.....that was the play that broke the Bills last night. Wilson made a desperation play & it worked.

12 men on the field, well that's just inexusable. That's on the players, ST captain, & coach. In McD's defense, he can't micro mnage every darn play, he trusts his assistants. 

 

This one really stings. I can't imagine the locker room now.

in regards to the 12 men penalty.

 

Most coaches in this scenario when the broncos were getting the ball back to go score and win would really hold onto that last timeout for this exact situation.  You want to have that timeout to prevent this kind of thing.   Once Denver lined up there was nothing anybody could do because they would never be able to get off the field in time.  

 

 

[Bray Wyatt]

Just now, MikePJ76 said:

in regards to the 12 men penalty.

 

Most coaches in this scenario when the broncos were getting the ball back to go score and win would really hold onto that last timeout for this exact situation.  You want to have that timeout to prevent this kind of thing.   Once Denver lined up there was nothing anybody could do because they would never be able to get off the field in time.  

 

 

 

We lost a timeout because Cam Lewis got hurt inside 2 minutes, not because McD used it.

[Nuncha]

41 minutes ago, Gregg said:

You are correct. When the Bills made it 22-21 the first thing, I said was they will lose 24-22. 

I was there with you.   KC did it to us in 13 seconds.  Denver had about 2 minutes (with time outs) which is eternity then miss the FG but get another shot at it because of a 12th idiot on the field.  Just when you think you saw every possible way a team can lose, our beloved Bills find another way to rip out your heart and soul.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Nuncha

[MikePJ76]

Just now, Bray Wyatt said:

 

We lost a timeout because Cam Lewis got hurt inside 2 minutes, not because McD used it.

yes but they called two after the first and second down play

[Bray Wyatt]

1 minute ago, MikePJ76 said:

yes but they called two after the first and second down play

 

I dont have any issue with how McD played it there time out wise. He made them have to rush out and have to kick, he should have told his team what to do and expect during that last time out and failed, thats where he messed up

Edited November 14, 2023 by Bray Wyatt

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The defense absolutely kept us alive in that first half but when the lights came on and the game was changing we needed to make a stop we let them go right down the field on us. It’s just constant. The entire game counts I get that but once we took a late lead, you have to hold it.

Here’s an idea. Get a lead early instead. 

[MikePJ76]

Just now, Bray Wyatt said:

 

I dont have any issue with how McD played it there time out wise. He made them have to rush out and have to kick, he should have told his team what to do and expect during that last time out and failed, thats where he messed up

that makes sense.  I just personally would not have called the timeout after second down.  It probably helped them get setup and run that pressure package that worked though.  

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Here’s an idea. Get a lead early instead. 

Probably would have had one if Gabe Davis could catch a perfectly thrown ball.  

[DrBob806]

5 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

in regards to the 12 men penalty.

 

Most coaches in this scenario when the broncos were getting the ball back to go score and win would really hold onto that last timeout for this exact situation.  You want to have that timeout to prevent this kind of thing.   Once Denver lined up there was nothing anybody could do because they would never be able to get off the field in time.  

 

 

Yes & no. 

 

Many coaches hang onto the last timeout to "ice the kicker." 

 

Insane the Bills just can't get out of their own way. 

[Ramza86]

8 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

He's the best option we have at this moment and he's shown he can make plays in years past. Blame the coaches all you want but sometimes players need to be accountable too. 

 

Oh I def hold him accountable....but the boss made a worse decision. 

[MikePJ76]

Just now, DrBob806 said:

Yes & no. 

 

Many coaches hang onto the last timeout to "ice the kicker." 

 

Insane the Bills just can't get out of their own way. 

ice the kicker is modern reasoning for it after it started 15 year ago or so.  It was always in the past though in these situations to make sure you can get out of a 12 man penalty or some other alignment issue.

 

the thing is had they had the Timeout and called it maybe they don't miss the field goal anyway.  It doesn't matter at this point I guess.

[Bray Wyatt]

Just now, Ramza86 said:

 

Oh I def hold him accountable....but the boss made a worse decision. 

 

Its not the players at the end of the game that are the problem, its the defensive play calls

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, DrBob806 said:

Yes & no. 

 

Many coaches hang onto the last timeout to "ice the kicker." 

 

Insane the Bills just can't get out of their own way. 

Cam Lewis got hurt inside 2 minutes.

[Jauronimo]

38 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Defense kept us alive in the game all night.

 

Competent teams, like the Eagles, would’ve been up 21-0 at the end of the first Q.

 

I don’t understand how folks don’t get this. Unless we are ASKING the banged up defense to score points for the offense, what else can they do?

The offense did its job and racked up high EPA points.  Its up to the defense to score points that actually matter.

[DeltaDigital]

Yea nothin like calling another zero blitz when they’re on the -45… so predictable. So dumb. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

The offense did its job and racked up high EPA points.  Its up to the defense to score points that actually matter.

Offense throws a pick, defense allows only 3, and the EPA train just keeps cruising along.

 

You gotta think Kenny has EPA heat maps to show McD and Terry that it’s really not his unit’s fault we keep losing and not scoring. 

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Cam Lewis got hurt inside 2 minutes.

Probably helped McDermott having 1 less timeouts.  His end of game timeouts usually help the other team.  

[popcornpam]

14 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Yeah that's what gets me: the defense has made stops and played well at times, but the guys they simply aren't closing out games against...

 

Zach Wilson. Mac Jones. The shell of Russell Wilson. Even Tyrod should have won that game for the Giants if we're being honest. But how did we let it even come to that ref's split second decision against Tyrod Taylor and the worst offense in the league??

 

Even battered and bruised, a defense should be able to close out against those types of QB's. Every time. 

With Mickey D  it’s been bend don’t break. It doesn’t work at the end of the games. He lets the other teams walk off a win.
 

Why doesn’t he change the scheme maybe blitz when they get the ball immediately and stop waiting until they’re down the field. move his players around more try to make confusion  

He tries to out. wait  the clock. Too vanilla.

Whats wrong with the other coaches seems like it’s his way or the highway. Why don’t they try to interject. 

[Bob Jones]

11 minutes ago, Avisan said:

The defensive play call worked, and Wilson had to throw up prayer ball that spent like five seconds in the air to keep the game alive.  Taron got beat clean off the line to start the play AND THEN made a boneheaded error trying to make up for the first mistake.  What level of situational incompetence can coaches reasonably be asked to plan for?  At what point is it coaching, and at what point is it players failing at their jobs?

 

How much can change with new coaching staff if the players just aren't getting it done?

Thank you. I have been saying this for weeks now. These guys are the "best of the best"...the best football players in the world, right? How many college football players actually make it to the NFL? Yet every week we see utter failures of on field execution time and again. I also believe that although just about all NFL players are physically superior to the average Joe, most of them are not too smart, and some positions require virtually no intelligence at all. As an example: You see defensive backfields get frequently burned, and the announcers will state it was "a blown coverage." LOL Why was it blown? These are the best players in the world! The coverages are blown because the defenders are not smart enough to figure out what's happening, or to simply communicate with each other....happens all the time.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Well said…and I bet that we all knew it when Denver got the ball. I was screaming for Josh to slide at the one yard line! 

 

Didn't Denver have 2 timeouts still though? And the 2 minute warning? They would've had plenty of time regardless. It's not like we were under the 2 and they were down to 1 or no timeouts. 

[BillsFan130]

30 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What is the Bills record when the opposing offense scores 21 points or more?

What does this stat have anything to do with what I said about making a clutch stop in the 4th quarter?

 

I never once said the offence wasn’t an issue, they clearly are the biggest problem now

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

'This team never makes a big stop'

*
Bulls**t!  The bandwagon for the Super Bowl bound crowd just stopped in about 2 1/2 feet.

*
😇

[technobot]

We've seen that movie many times during the drought. Beleaguered defense shows up, keeps us in the game all night. Offense looks incompetent most of the game, punter in store for a busy night. Sometime by the mid-late fourth quarter, the defense is gassed.

 

We didn't get the patented "now that the defense is gassed it hemmorhages yards in the ground game". We instead got the tried and tested "defense exhausted and can't make a stop with the game on the line". Some questionable panic defensive calls straight out of Madden credited with the assist.

 

Like the drought teams, this year's iteration of the Bills is adept at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The added wrinkle is "if the other team is motivated and ready to play, we'll make damn sure to look past them!"

[MikePJ76]

2 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Thank you. I have been saying this for weeks now. These guys are the "best of the best"...the best football players in the world, right? How many college football players actually make it to the NFL? Yet every week we see utter failures of on field execution time and again. I also believe that although just about all NFL players are physically superior to the average Joe, most of them are not too smart, and some positions require virtually no intelligence at all. As an example: You see defensive backfields get frequently burned, and the announcers will state it was "a blown coverage." LOL Why was it blown? These are the best players in the world! The coverages are blown because the defenders are not smart enough to figure out what's happening, or to simply communicate with each other....happens all the time.

New coaches come into organizations and improve the results with the current roster and a few changes all the time.  Look at how much better the minnesota vikings defense is this year with Brian Flores.  Geez, look at Denver yesterday.  Sean Payton came in with a plan and a proven track record of how to operate and they look to be getting better.  

 

McDermott's time has run its course here.  There is no shame in it and they have a good team and a good roster.  

 

Coaches will lineup ten deep outside the facility if their is an opportunity to come here and work with Josh Allen, Stephon Diggs a good offensive line and a solid defensive roster.  The Bills should have their pick of any coach they want.  they have to get it right.  Allen and this team deserve a coach on the level of a Belichick, Reid or a Sean Payton.  

 

Lions offensive coordinator is going to be the big name this winter.  I bet he would give anything to come and get to coach this unit.  He would bring the toughness element that is missing also to a good group.  A guy like Jones could then go hire a veteran defensive coordinator to be his guy.  this has worked in SF, KC, MIA, CINCY, MIN etc....

 

Or go the other way, Hire a guy like Mike Macdonald in baltimore and then bring in another like minded young OC.   This kind of setup would bring a lot of energy to the team.  These guys are 37 years old.

 

and there are always the retreads.

[Toyo321]

You can spin this 100 different ways.  I said back during training camp when I went to SJF this summer, and back before the season started that we did not get better as a team this year and we actually got worse. I got flamed by OBD members for saying this back then.  Where are these naysayers now.  Beane & McD brought in and signed these cast me off players from other teams again.  Our safeties are slow as molasses, especially when everyone else in our division arguably got better, except for NE.    And look at this team now, it's a F****** joke.  The coaching sucks the OC sucks our D could not even stop MAC freaking JONES & Zach Wilson,  who both suck like like no other QB's on this planet.

 

This teams fate was sealed the day they signed Von Miller and extended Dawson Knox and even Tre White to these huge contracts.   All three of these players IMO should have never been signed or extended.  We are constantly paying huge top $ for talent that can't perform at all when they had too on the field. Injuries happen in the NFL, but not having money to field quality personnel on the field is a direct result of this pathetic money and CAP mismanagement  by the GM and head coach.

 

McD and Beane and Dorsey have regressed this team so badly in the last 2 years, that they are going to look like what the Denver Broncos' were last year.

 

This team may not even win another game for the rest of this year.

[TheWeatherMan]

Let this sink in: This year, the Bills have allowed game winning drives orchestrated by Mac Jones, Zack Wilson, Russell Wilson and within a foot…Tyrod Taylor.

[BuffaloRebound]

4 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Let this sink in: This year, the Bills have allowed game winning drives orchestrated by Mac Jones, Zack Wilson, Russell Wilson and within a foot…Tyrod Taylor.

It’s really been a contest between McDermott and Josh to see who can blow the game.  Josh commits at least 2 turnovers a game, then McDermott says hold my beer and craps all over himself at the end of games.  

Edited November 14, 2023 by BuffaloRebound