Building opinion that Josh is not committed to the Bills/football?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:21 AM, BuffaloRebound said:

Where is Jordan Palmer these days?  Seems like he was a fixture in Josh’s development to stardom.  Now nothing.  

Josh didn’t do as much work this offseason due to getting banged up last year.

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Every time I hear one of the usual suspects on 2BD throw shade at Allen because he was good not great in a game I remember what Greg Cosell repeatedly says when he talks about Allen and the Bills:  "if you need your QB to be great every time he plays to win then you have a problem and it's NOT your QB."

 

Chris Simms has brought this up a bunch too. He said it again yesterday when talking about our loss to the Bengals. He has heard from many people in the NFL, a couple in Buffalo even, that everybody knows too much is put on Josh Allen here. Our only identity as a team is Allen making magic happen. We have nothing else in our bag.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Chris Simms has brought this up a bunch too. He said it again yesterday when talking about our loss to the Bengals. He has heard from many people in the NFL, a couple in Buffalo even, that everybody knows too much is put on Josh Allen here. Our only identity as a team is Allen making magic happen. We have nothing else in our bag.

Been that way for years

[frostbitmic]

One thing that raised an eye brow, to me at least, last spring or summer was Josh saying ... "I'm going to be more focused this year" ... Maybe it's nothing but when I heard it, I was WTF, why aren't you focused all the time.

 

Anyway this is all Dorsey's fault and he'll be this seasons scapegoat.

[ngbills]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Josh didn’t do as much work this offseason due to getting banged up last year.

Possibly yes. But he sure did a lot of golf tourneys.

[Bruffalo]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Chris Simms has brought this up a bunch too. He said it again yesterday when talking about our loss to the Bengals. He has heard from many people in the NFL, a couple in Buffalo even, that everybody knows too much is put on Josh Allen here. Our only identity as a team is Allen making magic happen. We have nothing else in our bag.

 

Dorsey can't get out of his own way and call plays in a way that take pressure off of Allen.  He's so predictable that every opponent seemingly knows exactly what we're trying to do before it happens.  When your opponent has a good idea of what you're doing, that's going to to make execution incredibly difficult.  It's the same problem with the defense too. 

 

Yet time and time again we see Dorsey and McD come to the podium and lament that we need to execute better.  It's BS. They need to scheme better and prepare the team better. It's why going fast looks so much better. Dorsey runs out the same plays out of the same formations constantly with the same clogged up routes. 

 

Could Allen do more? Maybe.  Is it fair to put the blame on his shoulders? Not really, in my opinion. 

[BFLO]

I think Allen has lost interest in Dorsey’s offense, not in the Bills or in Football. 

[Heitz]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:11 AM, Heels20X6 said:

Ah, so we're in the "he doesn't care about football" phase of Bills fandom...

 

For god's sake I hope some year we go undefeated and win the Super Bowl just so we don't have to endure endless threads like this...  

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

51 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Been that way for years

By design which is the sad thing about it.

 

The Bills brain trust in 2020 decided that they could milk Allen's talent and skimp on the offense, particularly the O line.  For those that don't believe me over the course of 3 seasons/drafts (2020, 2021, 2022) the highest draft pick they've used on the O line was a #3 (Cody Ford was a #2 in 2019 & Torrence a #2 in 2023).  And in FA they've repeatedly signed O line back-ups & retreads during this period. There has not been a serious attempt by the Bills to build a great O line in the same way that Cincinnati, KC & the Eagles have done.

 

At the same time the bills threw the lions share of their draft/FA resources at the D in the hopes of building a monster along the lions of the 1985 Bears.  This approach would have worked in the 1990's and 2000's but was doomed to failure in the modern NFL.

[frostbitmic]

28 minutes ago, Heitz said:

 

For god's sake I hope some year we go undefeated and win the Super Bowl just so we don't have to endure endless threads like this...  

 

 

What fun is that ?

 

[dgrochester55]

I think Allen is committed, but frustrated with the offense.   He repeatedly said after the game "I ran what was called".  That is the polite way of saying "Dorsey is a useless incompetent coach, don't blame me".  

[DCofNC]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:18 AM, SCBills said:

I don't think he trusts anything going on out there.  

 

We also don't have the talent people want to believe we do.  Diggs, Kincaid & a good OL should be enough to be way better than we've been, but outside of that he's throwing to a RD4 WR and RD5 WR.   They're ok.. but it's getting to the point where Shakir may be a more reliable option than Davis.. which isn't saying much. 

 

Combine that with our OC seeming incapable of adjustments or any semblance of cohesive game-flow and we get what we've been seeing. 

 

....which makes Josh Allen look like what the OP alludes to.

I think this is the real situation.  I don’t think he trusts what he’s being taught and that’s leading to hesitation.  I think there’s a pretty strong lack of faith in Davis at this point too, he seems to double take before throwing to him and it’s causing problems.  Josh is playing  terrible, no two ways about that.  

 

Unfortunately, we are looking at Carolina w Newton all over again.  We are relying on the QB to play Superman with basically one weapon and a bunch of JAGs, wasting resources on the D, and multiple picks on RBs.  Without an MVP, near perfect season from Allen, the team loses.   This is not a winning model and it’s certainly not sustainable.  A big reason we have the geniuses we have in charge here today was that poor model that allowed you to win in the regular season and get blown up in the playoffs, while running their unicorn into the ground.  We were fortunate enough to land an extra magical unicorn and in short order, have him on the way to the slaughter house.

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I think this is the real situation.  I don’t think he trusts what he’s being taught and that’s leading to hesitation.  I think there’s a pretty strong lack of faith in Davis at this point too, he seems to double take before throwing to him and it’s causing problems.  Josh is playing  terrible, no two ways about that.  

 

Unfortunately, we are looking at Carolina w Newton all over again.  We are relying on the QB to play Superman with basically one weapon and a bunch of JAGs, wasting resources on the D, and multiple picks on RBs.  Without an MVP, near perfect season from Allen, the team loses.   This is not a winning model and it’s certainly not sustainable.  A big reason we have the geniuses we have in charge here today was that poor model that allowed you to win in the regular season and get blown up in the playoffs, while running their unicorn into the ground.  We were fortunate enough to land an extra magical unicorn and in short order, have him on the way to the slaughter house.

Mahomes is struggling with a similar model … an elite weapon, a good OL and then a bunch of guys.  They’re integrating some RD2 WR’s and we’re integrating rookie Kincaid. 
 

Difference is their defense is healthy and dominating.  
 

Ours is injured and likely the difference between at worst 6-3, now 5-4. 
 

But we all knew we didn’t have enough on offense.   KC has super bowls and an offensive guru in Reid to hope they figure it out.  
 

 

[Beck Water]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:11 AM, Bangarang said:

What evidence is there for this?

 

Evidence?  We don't need no stinkin' evidence.

 

We'll take a couple scrap comments and some internet dude trying to be someone and puff it all up.

 

On 11/6/2023 at 9:30 AM, BigDingus said:

I'm critical of Josh, but I don't think this is the issue.

 

If anything, he may be putting added pressure on himself to work harder & improve, which has resulted in uncharacteristic play. He knows last year was a struggle, especially the 2nd half & the playoffs. He knows people blamed HIM for the Diggs situation. He knows he leads the league in turnovers the past several years. 

 

So knowing all that, he's likely trying to make changes & play differently. Unfortunately, it's still not working out, and I'm not sure the surrounding players/play calling are helping him with that. Josh is still turning it over, but so are others. Along with the penalties, still no commitment to running the ball, dropped passes, etc. it's only adding to the difficulties Josh is having.

 

I think part of the issue is Josh no longer has the same experienced cast of characters around him helping him assess what defenses are doing from the viewpoint of what he sees and what he needs to key on vs. X's and O's.  Ken Dorsey is too busy trying to design the offense, instead of Case Keenum and Matt Barkley he has his buddy "the Other Allen" and some PS kid, and what evidence do we really have that Joe Brady is up to the job'?

 

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Mahomes is struggling with a similar model … an elite weapon, a good OL and then a bunch of guys.  They’re integrating some RD2 WR’s and we’re integrating rookie Kincaid.

 

I feel as though KC has more of a run game though with Pacheco

Edited November 7, 2023 by Beck Water

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I feel as though KC has more of a run game though with Pacheco

Probably true.  We have a good pass blocking OL, but they have an elite IOL at both pass pro and getting push in run blocking.   Morse and McGovern are more pass blockers and Torrence is still a rookie. 

[Beck Water]

Just now, SCBills said:

Probably true.  We have a good pass blocking OL, but they have an elite IOL at both pass pro and getting push in run blocking.   Morse and McGovern are more pass blockers and Torrence is still a rookie. 

 

Actually.... didn't McGovern come here with the rep of being a talented run blocker but not so good in pass pro?

 

And Morse can be a very effective run blocker, just not in the smash-mouth toss the nose tackle two yards back style.

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Mahomes is struggling with a similar model … an elite weapon, a good OL and then a bunch of guys.  They’re integrating some RD2 WR’s and we’re integrating rookie Kincaid. 
 

Difference is their defense is healthy and dominating.  
 

Ours is injured and likely the difference between at worst 6-3, now 5-4. 
 

But we all knew we didn’t have enough on offense.   KC has super bowls and an offensive guru in Reid to hope they figure it out.  
 

 

Maholmes is struggling, but at very least he has Reid on his side and knows what Andy teaches is a winning philosophy.  Josh doesn’t have that.   Also, Maholmes came up in a system that had more to work with and they had no D, so they spent there to get that, but they also invested a lot of draft capital in the offense, a lot of those picks haven’t worked out the way they might have wanted, but it looks like Rice is pretty good, and Pacheco is a starting RB, they definitely don’t have great WRs though.   The Bills essentially have given Allen, Diggs and just wasted a ton of resources on the D.  It’s not like he’s ever had anything to work with and is being supported by not having to be perfect. 
 

Again, Allen has regressed, a lot.  That said, I have to put that at 20% him, 30% terrible roster management and 50% coaching.

[DuckyBoys]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

By design which is the sad thing about it.

 

The Bills brain trust in 2020 decided that they could milk Allen's talent and skimp on the offense, particularly the O line.  For those that don't believe me over the course of 3 seasons/drafts (2020, 2021, 2022) the highest draft pick they've used on the O line was a #3 (Cody Ford was a #2 in 2019 & Torrence a #2 in 2023).  And in FA they've repeatedly signed O line back-ups & retreads during this period. There has not been a serious attempt by the Bills to build a great O line in the same way that Cincinnati, KC & the Eagles have done.

 

At the same time the bills threw the lions share of their draft/FA resources at the D in the hopes of building a monster along the lions of the 1985 Bears.  This approach would have worked in the 1990's and 2000's but was doomed to failure in the modern NFL.

Bingo  !  Imagine if they went balls out and drafted/invested in a o line and weapons for Josh  

[Since1981]

I don’t support building above avg 11+ D starters/cap in 2023 NFL. D and O as equal 50/50 is not wise in 2023.

My favorite play in sports is a Safety but when was the last time?? 
 

Far better to skew 60-70% to O in 2023. As we all know, a QB/WR/O+ is the long run formula in 2023.

 

rules etc have taken Safety and KO out of the game. Need to skew to O and leave old man ideas behind. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Since1981

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

After Mahomes got the living hell beat out of him in the Super Bowl against Tampa,  Veach vowed to never let that happen again. He prioritized protecting Mahomes that offseason at all cost.

 

Up until this  draft what have we prioritized for Josh since bringing in Diggs?

I have a correlation to Gabe Davis. Everyone remembers Playoff Gabe against the Chiefs..  yet his play since then has been no where that dynamic..

 

I think Beane and company saw our offense the same way.. thought we would continue humming along like that playoff game, even without Dabol around. I know we have scored a lot of points still but the creativity and fun seems to be gone.

 

I think Hopkins would have been a great option for Josh  but we had placed money elsewhere.

 

Did we really sign Harty to a 2 year $9 mill contract? Because that’s horrible and either the coaching ain’t getting something out of him or we seriously overestimated his value. 

 

I’m honestly just throwing out anything at this point lol 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[Mango]

I have certainly put my tin foil hat on in regards to Allen’s work in the film room based on just a few vibes I got from interviews.

 

But I think there’s a big difference between needing to be better and doing more in an area and not being committed. 
 

Josh Allen is committed. 

[Since1981]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

looking at Carolina w Newton all over again.

Dorsey was fired during that debacle too. 

[Since1981]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2753233-panthers-fire-oc-mike-shula-and-qb-coach-ken-dorsey-after-loss-vs-saints

 

Major slump in offense with panthers Dorsey. Hmmmmmmm🤔

“when asked about the team's lack of an identity he said, "you want to be able to understand this is who we are and this is what we do."

[Buffalosouth]

I guess all that time spent sending emails and game tape to every school imaginable for a chance to play was all for show