Building opinion that Josh is not committed to the Bills/football?

[oldmanfan]

I do not question his commitment nor his physical talent.  I do think a legitimate concern is that he does not do pre-snap reads well, and that he does not check to the easier play when it would be wise.   Take two examples last night.  Frst the interception.  He was baited into the exact same thing against the Pats.  Second was a 3rd and 2 play where he stayed in the picket too long looking for something downfield.  All he needs to do there is take the short option available and move the chains.  Especially against a guy like Burrow keep the chains moving and don’t let him have the ball.

 

And I’ll give you one more.  The last TD drive.  There was no urgency to the offense, no getting to the line quickly, no quick snap counts.  That may be more on Dorsey but a QB in the league 6 years should know to challenge his OC if that’s the case.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

Seems to be quite a bit of blame being flung Josh’s way from where I’m sitting.

Monkey's throwing excrement at the wall is a pretty standard practice in the zoo.

 

 

 

[Gugny]

4 hours ago, Bangarang said:

What evidence is there for this?

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

 

And I’ll give you one more.  The last TD drive.  There was no urgency to the offense, no getting to the line quickly, no quick snap counts.  That may be more on Dorsey but a QB in the league 6 years should know to challenge his OC if that’s the case.

I disagree.  The critical element of that last TD drive was to score with more then enough time left to get another chance to win the game should the defense make a stop.  The Bills scored with over three and a half minutes left in the game.  They should have had 2 TO's remaining but only had one as McD foolishly challenged a 1st down incompletion call that was only 9 yards.

 

Bottom lie is that if the defense makes the stop the Bills would have got the ball back with at least 2 minutes left. 

 

 

[Dopey]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

He is at the top or near the top on every statistical category for QBs.  People insisting that is not good enough is just stupid. 

Yeah, but the one that sticks out the most? Being at the top of the mountain in turnovers in the entire league since 2021. It's not good enough. Not stupid, just true. More turnovers than Mac Jones, Russel Wilson, Baker Mayfield, Cousins, Jimmy G. I could go on with the list, but point made. 

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Well I suppose leading the league in turnovers since 2018 is a start.......but it's more often what he doesn't do.........and we just write it off because he's our guy.

 

6 years in the league and on his second OC and they still can't execute a screen play.   Never draws opponents Offside with cadence.    These aren't the primary problems but they should illustrate the degree of lack of attention to detail in his game.   Which shows up more notably in his shaky field vision and pre-snap reads,  poor decisions in setting protection and directing run plays etc..    

 

He doesn't have the grasp he should for the 6th year in the system.    When you have to admit that he has to operate an up-tempo no-huddle ultra-simplified gameplan to be effective you know the QB just isn't playing smart football.

 

 

He has drawn opponents offside with his cadence and gotten a free play so many times. Not sure why you felt the need to choose that when it’s objectively false. 
 

The turnovers is a combination of fumbling the ball and trying to make a play. I guess the stupid interceptions is a fair point though. 

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

His face should buried in a tablet. Bum

[UKBillFan]

7 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

That's evidence of him not being committed to the Bills?

[Dopey]

7 minutes ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Yes thank you Brittany 😂

Again, just a clarification to your mistake. You're more than welcome.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

He has drawn opponents offside with his cadence and gotten a free play so many times. Not sure why you felt the need to choose that when it’s objectively false. 
 

The turnovers is a combination of fumbling the ball and trying to make a play.  I guess the stupid interceptions is a fair point though. 

 

 

 

You guess?  🙄

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Bangarang said:

What evidence is there for this?

 

None.  

 

You would be hard pressed to find someone as dedicated and committed to winning and football as Allen.  But, Buffalo is blue collar so as soon as they see Josh with a hollywood celeb girlfriend they make up all these narratives about him like he has changed, or full of himself or something.  Its pretty ridiculous if you ask me.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

17 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Allen put the Bills in their best position to win a Super Bowl since 1993 and then 13 seconds happened.  That alone proves that Allen has what it takes to lead a team to a Super Bowl win.  Thirteen seconds should have opened all our eyes to where the REAL problem lies with this franchise and it's not with Josh Allen.

 

 

Almost winning a divisional round against a team that lost the conference game to a team that lost the superbowl proves the ability to win a superbowl?  😂 

[Big Blitz]

4 hours ago, Bangarang said:

What evidence is there for this?

 

Must be the playing thru the elbow and shoulder injuries in the last calendar year and missing zero time.  

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

It’s hard to say what exactly is going on with this team, but something is off. Diggs is still great and Kincaid looks like he is going to be great as well. 
 

It definitely seems like they inexplicably go away from what is working and have this core set of plays on offense that they keep going to in lieu of what works. 
 

The defense, unfortunately, is what it is. We were blessed with elite safety play for a very long time and those safeties made this defense go. Clearly they have hit the wall and Rapp doesn’t look great either.
 

This offense is going to have to score 30+ to win these games against good teams. It seems like they still can, but are really struggling with doing things that work.
 

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, McDermott always seems to find a way out of these funks. Even though he was in year one, that historically bad stretch in 2017 had people calling for his job. It’s hard to believe that team mad the playoffs after that. The 2021 team that was 7-6 also seemed dead in the water. We will see if he still has answers to turn this around, because this team not making the playoffs seemed unfathomable.

[oldmanfan]

24 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I disagree.  The critical element of that last TD drive was to score with more then enough time left to get another chance to win the game should the defense make a stop.  The Bills scored with over three and a half minutes left in the game.  They should have had 2 TO's remaining but only had one as McD foolishly challenged a 1st down incompletion call that was only 9 yards.

 

Bottom lie is that if the defense makes the stop the Bills would have got the ball back with at least 2 minutes left. 

 

 

And could have had even more time.  Which as it turns out they might have needed due to the idiotic loss of a time out because of that challenge.  Whoever recommended that challenge should have been fired today.

[Dopey]

13 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Monkey's throwing excrement at the wall is a pretty standard practice in the zoo.

 

 

 

Interesting. Didn't know this factoid. Thanks. Did you know gorillas sometimes eat their own poop? Sometimes the poop of other gorillas too? Sounds like standard practice at the Josh apologists club. Eating up the excuses like candy (poop). We monkeys are smarter than to eat poop. Come to think of it, maybe those gorillas are eating our excrement off the walls.  

[SoCal Deek]

18 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And could have had even more time.  Which as it turns out they might have needed due to the idiotic loss of a time out because of that challenge.  Whoever recommended that challenge should have been fired today.

And needing two scores what the heck is Murray doing cutting back inside instead of immediately getting out of bounds after his catch. This team is REALLY poorly coached. They have less than zero situational awareness! 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

And needing two scores what the heck is Murray doing cutting back inside instead of immediately getting out of bounds after his catch. This team is REALLY poorly coached. They have less than zero situational awareness! 

That was also infuriating 

[mjt328]

51 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Allen put the Bills in their best position to win a Super Bowl since 1993 and then 13 seconds happened.  That alone proves that Allen has what it takes to lead a team to a Super Bowl win.  Thirteen seconds should have opened all our eyes to where the REAL problem lies with this franchise and it's not with Josh Allen.

 

So almost winning a Divisional Round playoff game is enough to prove he can someday win a championship?

 

Last time I checked, even if 13 seconds never happened...the Bills STILL would have needed to defeat the Bengals and the Rams to win the Super Bowl.  I know that many Bills fans pretend this is a foregone conclusion, so they can feel better about saying the coach single-handedly cost this team the trophy.  But it's just as likely the Bills would have been eliminated a week later against Cincinnati.

 

I understand the blame directed towards Sean McDermott, Ken Dorsey and even Brandon Beane.  But Josh Allen is making way too many mistakes to be absolved from the mess this team has become.

 

[zow2]

lol,  Nick Wright said the Bills think they have Brett Favre at QB but really have Duante Culpepper.0

[Aimee75]

4 hours ago, Chaos said:

He is at the top or near the top on every statistical category for QBs.  People insisting that is not good enough is just stupid. 

Or that "he's regressing". Regressing with 24 TD's and nearly 2,500 yards so far. 

 

People are looking at the losses, blaming him and claiming he's regressing because he is clearly at fault for the losses. Stats be damned!

[BillsFanSD]

None of us know exactly what's going on in the building, but it's probably not a coincidence that (a) the offense seems ill-conceived and not a very good fit for Allen's skillset and (b) Allen seems a little unenthused about running said offense.

 

Bring in a real OC and let's see what happens.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

39 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And needing two scores what the heck is Murray doing cutting back inside instead of immediately getting out of bounds after his catch. This team is REALLY poorly coached. They have less than zero situational awareness! 

I mean come on dude. Murray has played football for like two decades. Is situational awareness really something you expect to need to coach to a 10 pro year veteran? - That’s on him.
 

The challenge is certainly on the coaching staff. 

[LabattBlue]

Where are Shula and Brady?  Pressbox or sideline?  Where is Josh’s buddy Kyle?  Can someone please talk with him when the defense is on the field?

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

5 hours ago, Success said:

JA's play wasn't the issue yesterday.

 

It wasn’t THE issue, but it was AN issue. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

So almost winning a Divisional Round playoff game is enough to prove he can someday win a championship?

 

Last time I checked, even if 13 seconds never happened...the Bills STILL would have needed to defeat the Bengals and the Rams to win the Super Bowl.  I know that many Bills fans pretend this is a foregone conclusion, so they can feel better about saying the coach single-handedly cost this team the trophy.  But it's just as likely the Bills would have been eliminated a week later against Cincinnati.

 

I understand the blame directed towards Sean McDermott, Ken Dorsey and even Brandon Beane.  But Josh Allen is making way too many mistakes to be absolved from the mess this team has become.

 

If "13 seconds" and Allen's play in that game and the previous one against NE isn't enough to convince you Allen can win a Super Bowl then you're beyond help.

 

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

And could have had even more time.  Which as it turns out they might have needed due to the idiotic loss of a time out because of that challenge.  Whoever recommended that challenge should have been fired today.

I agree about the challenge.  As another poster pointed out the risk/reward of gaining 9 yards on 1st down was not worth the potential loss of a TO. 

 

As for the amount of time left after the Bill's last TD, sure more would be better but there was more then enough time to win that game had the D made the stop.

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Almost winning a divisional round against a team that lost the conference game to a team that lost the superbowl proves the ability to win a superbowl?  😂 

Seriously that's your comeback?  Re-watch the NE and KC playoff games that year and tell me that Allen wasn't in a special zone.  One that had SB written all over it.  It was like Flaco's SB run but on steroids.  

 

 

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

If "13 seconds" and Allen's play in that game and the previous one against NE isn't enough to convince you Allen can win a Super Bowl then you're beyond help.

 

I agree about the challenge.  As another poster pointed out the risk/reward of gaining 9 yards on 1st down was not worth the potential loss of a TO. 

 

As for the amount of time left after the Bill's last TD, sure more would be better but there was more then enough time to win that game had the D made the stop.

You think Allen has shown he can hold it together for 4 straight games against playoff competition?  

[UKBillFan]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

You think Allen has shown he can hold it together for 4 straight games against playoff competition?  

 

If you think not then what should the Bills do?

[Búfalo Blanco]

Let's talk about the succubus in the room, shall we...?

[Mikie2times]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

 

If you think not then what should the Bills do?

You build a system around turning my question into a yes. We at least trended toward that concept with Dabs. We are trending away from it now. 

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

You build a system around turning my question into a yes. We at least trended toward that concept with Dabs. We are trending away from it now. 

 

In fairness to the original post you answered, if there was any time where it looked like Josh could hold it together in four successive play off games, then it was 2021.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Seriously that's your comeback?  Re-watch the NE and KC playoff games that year and tell me that Allen wasn't in a special zone.  One that had SB written all over it.  It was like Flaco's SB run but on steroids.  

 

 

And then rewatch the chiefs who looked even better, then loose to the Bengals. The same Bengals who then lost to the Rams. 
 

If 13 seconds didn’t happen the only guarantee is they would have made it as far as they did the prior season. 

[Mikie2times]

6 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

In fairness to the original post you answered, if there was any time where it looked like Josh could hold it together in four successive play off games, then it was 2021.

I really don't know what it would have been like if we played the most talented version of the Bengals defense the following week.  Josh was out of his mind at the time. But Josh can look amazing and then completely lost and it happens quick. So to think he had 8 more quarters of amazing? I don't think you can say somebody is crazy for doubting that. In fact, gun to the head, hell no. Not even 2021 is he going 4 straight games without an implosion. We have never really seen that with him at that level of competition. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Mikie2times

[bmur66]

Is he supposed to study what to do when 79 gets beat on the first step?

[oldmanfan]

20 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

If "13 seconds" and Allen's play in that game and the previous one against NE isn't enough to convince you Allen can win a Super Bowl then you're beyond help.

 

I agree about the challenge.  As another poster pointed out the risk/reward of gaining 9 yards on 1st down was not worth the potential loss of a TO. 

 

As for the amount of time left after the Bill's last TD, sure more would be better but there was more then enough time to win that game had the D made the stop.

I think my concern there was whether they would wake up and play with urgency.  I suppose having less time would have forced them into it.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

You think Allen has shown he can hold it together for 4 straight games against playoff competition?  

Yes. If you recall the Bills were 7 - 6 and left for dead with the Pat's looking like a shoe in to win the East.  Then Allen played a nearly perfect game at NE to steal the division away from the Pats; then he played a perfect game against NE in the 1st playoff game and then put on two of the most electrifying comeback drives in the 4th quarter against the Chiefs.

 

In hindsight what 13 seconds demonstrated to me was:

 

*  that the ceiling for Allen in playoff games was perfection

 

*  that the ceiling for our coaching staff was much lower

 

Like a lot of Bills fans I ignored what 13 seconds was telling me about McD.  I made excuses for mistakes that were inexcusable at that level of PROFESSIONAL football.  I scoffed at posters on 2BD that claimed McD was deeply flawed as a head coach. But now I admit that they were right and I was wrong.

 

Today Colin Cowherd said it best:  McD is like Marty Schottenheimer & Chuck Knox.  Good coaches who were limited by their explicit lack of imagination and what it took to reach that final level of success in the NFL.  Like these two, McD was good at taking a dysfunctional franchise that made losing an art form and transforming it into a winning team.  This was no small achievement.  But that's as far as he can and will ever take the Bills. 

 

Those suggesting that Allen is the problem are flat out wrong.  The problem is staring us in the face and some are choosing to find alternative scapegoats.

 

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

12 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

this

 

There is no metric that suggests he's performing at anything other than a top1-3 level in the NFL

 

So of course the narrative will be that he doesn't watch enough film and is lazy/uncommitted/playing poorly

 

Allen is one of the few things on the team working properly this season

 

In many ways Allen has become a victim of his own success. I've seen multiple people on here say "if Allen doesn't play like he did in the Miami game we can't win." Just a perfect 158.3 passer rating. Nothing too crazy.

 

Expectations have gotten way out of control. I don't mind individual criticisms of Allen's plays, that is part of analyzing the losses, but I don't get these bizarre sweeping narratives that come out of nowhere and don't remotely match up with the data. As usual it comes down to some people getting Bills tunnel vision and not evaluating Allen in the context of every other QB.

[John from Riverside]

You

think you’re upset now

 

You’d be blowing up blood vessels if Josh Allen was not under center

[ChrisWatson#21]

Josh Allen is a terrific football player he is NOT the problem here.  This guy has never had it easy since his Wyoming days he’s had little supporting cast compared to guys like Burrow, Mahomes, who have had pro bowl players and first round talent around even in their college days.  This front office has failed to draft talent at WR and RB to take the load off him.  

[CincyBillsFan]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

In many ways Allen has become a victim of his own success. I've seen multiple people on here say "if Allen doesn't play like he did in the Miami game we can't win." Just a perfect 158.3 passer rating. Nothing too crazy.

 

Expectations have gotten way out of control. I don't mind individual criticisms of Allen's plays, that is part of analyzing the losses, but I don't get these bizarre sweeping narratives that come out of nowhere and don't remotely match up with the data. As usual it comes down to some people getting Bills tunnel vision and not evaluating Allen in the context of every other QB.

Well said.  I was watching Herbert struggle with the Jet's D last night and wondered what our resident Allen critics would make of that performance. 

 

Every time I hear one of the usual suspects on 2BD throw shade at Allen because he was good not great in a game I remember what Greg Cosell repeatedly says when he talks about Allen and the Bills:  "if you need your QB to be great every time he plays to win then you have a problem and it's NOT your QB."