If Dorsey needs to be fired - McD needs to go

[Big Blitz]

I’m done listening to the blame on the OC.  

 

If this team needs an elite OC that will get hired as a HC immediately anyway then wtf are we doing here?  
 

It’s really unfair to Dorsey a first time play caller (year 2 yea I know) what’s going on right now.  
 

The pressure has to be getting to him.  

 

If we need a new OC to get the most out of peak Josh Allen, then the guy who hired the current OC is done.  It’s sad.  But it’s reality. 
 

 

So we let McD hire the new OC and hope he rights the ship.  He’s getting a HC job immediately.  And we do this dance again.  

 

Coaches have peaks to.  
 

McDs peak here was 2021-to week 4 of 2023.  Injuries derailed this season’s defense but I don’t really like how the HC is not getting the heat Ken is. 
 

Why is this team flat?  You needed elite players at every position on D to win?  Why does Elam not see the field?  Why can’t Dorian play over a 4 year Jag.  
 

If this season ends as it’s currently going, it’s time to completely clean house.  
 

 

This is all on McD.  Who’s only proving we need an elite injury free team to win.  

[BillMafia716ix]

McDermott is going nowhere. Nor should he. Why can’t y’all understand this lol. They’ll go through a full tear down full rebuild before they would even consider it. 

[Low Positive]

You cannot make systemic changes mid-season. They could fire Dorsey and let Joe Brady or Mike Shula call the plays, but a team cannot install a new playbook without the benefit of an offseason and training camp.

[MasterStrategist]

2 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

You cannot make systemic changes mid-season. They could fire Dorsey and let Joe Brady or Mike Shula call the plays, but a team cannot install a new playbook without the benefit of an offseason and training camp.

Agree.  This is actually a big week IMO though. 

 

We have a "mini bye" and actual bye week still to come.  Home/primetime, if we lay another egg on offense I think that might be final straw

5 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

McDermott is going nowhere. Nor should he. Why can’t y’all understand this lol. They’ll go through a full tear down full rebuild before they would even consider it. 

I'm not advocating for Coach to be fired/full rebuild.

 

But is there a poor enough record that it happens after season?  Ie: 7-10?  

 

Again, not advocating for that.  I think we have more personnel issues than coaching.  But this would be the offseason to make a change, given we are likely heading into next year at least "retooling"/having to maneuver around cap again.  This time we won't be kicking as much down the road, instead letting go of some higher priced contracts.

[Low Positive]

Just now, MasterStrategist said:

Agree.  This is actually a big week IMO though. 

 

We have a "mini bye" and actual bye week still to come.  Home/primetime, if we lay another egg on offense I think that might be final straw

I think that's true, but it will be an internal promotion with minor tweaks to the playbook. But the problem here is McDermott's focus on winning with defense and controlling the ToP so I wouldn't expect drastic changes to the playcalling philosophy.

[Big Blitz]

5 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

You cannot make systemic changes mid-season. They could fire Dorsey and let Joe Brady or Mike Shula call the plays, but a team cannot install a new playbook without the benefit of an offseason and training camp.

 

I’m talking about after this season. 
 

If we finish 8-9 and look like this in the process, it will be time to move on. 

 

And like everyone here - yes I know McD is a great HC.  No doubt.  
 

But our offense is a shell of itself.  
 

You need to have a SB win to be able to stay and try and hire yet another OC - who if successful will immediately be gone.  

[Gunsgoodtime]

If they fail to make the playoffs and Josh Allen remains healthy, im all for firing them both.  Josh Allen is not Benjamin Button

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Mid-season all you can do is demote Dorsey and let someone else call the plays.

In the off season I think even without making the playoffs there is little to no chance Pegula fires McDermott.  Only a revolt by Allen could make it happen. 

McDermott had built in excuse for failure last year and now this year. We are stuck with him through the end of 2024.

Only then can we move on to someone else. 

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Mid-season all you can do is demote Dorsey and let someone else call the plays.

In the off season I think even without making the playoffs there is little to no chance Pegula fires McDermott.  Only a revolt by Allen could make it happen. 

McDermott had built in excuse for failure last year and now this year. We are stuck with him through the end of 2024.

Only then can we move on to someone else. 

What’s the benefit of demoting instead of just simply firing him? Seems pointless to do that

[Big Blitz]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Mid-season all you can do is demote Dorsey and let someone else call the plays.

In the off season I think even without making the playoffs there is little to no chance Pegula fires McDermott.  Only a revolt by Allen could make it happen. 

McDermott had built in excuse for failure last year and now this year. We are stuck with him through the end of 2024.

Only then can we move on to someone else. 

 

 

In no way do you enter next season with a HC in a do or die scenario.  
 

Do you really want him back under that scenario?

 

This is it folks.  He either makes this happen - I’m not even at the point we need a SB with the injuries on D - but the O better get right and this team needs to be a playoff team.  
 

Forget we “we have Allen and should be winning” — the money spent on this roster alone.  

[Xwnyer]

Dorsey threw McD under bus today said that NcD has his hand on the offense.  I have liked McD and what he has done for this franchise but maybe it’s time to move on.  Go after a offense minded HC that will hire best defensive coordinator asst HC he can find.  Sort of like Miami.  

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

McD has the injury excuse, but quite frankly his defense is performing poorly by all the defensive measures in the last 3 weeks since the injuries. Draft choices sucking is also a major contributor to the lack of depth, not to mention one awful game plan yesterday against Jones.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, Xwnyer said:

Dorsey threw McD under bus today said that NcD has his hand on the offense.  I have liked McD and what he has done for this franchise but maybe it’s time to move on.  Go after an offense minded HC that will hire best defensive coordinator asst HC he can find.  Sort of like Miami.  

who? 

[JohnNord]

49 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

I’m done listening to the blame on the OC.  

 

If this team needs an elite OC that will get hired as a HC immediately anyway then wtf are we doing here?  
 

It’s really unfair to Dorsey a first time play caller (year 2 yea I know) what’s going on right now.  
 

The pressure has to be getting to him.  

 

If we need a new OC to get the most out of peak Josh Allen, then the guy who hired the current OC is done.  It’s sad.  But it’s reality. 
 

 

So we let McD hire the new OC and hope he rights the ship.  He’s getting a HC job immediately.  And we do this dance again.  

 

Coaches have peaks to.  
 

McDs peak here was 2021-to week 4 of 2023.  Injuries derailed this season’s defense but I don’t really like how the HC is not getting the heat Ken is. 
 

Why is this team flat?  You needed elite players at every position on D to win?  Why does Elam not see the field?  Why can’t Dorian play over a 4 year Jag.  
 

If this season ends as it’s currently going, it’s time to completely clean house.  
 

 

This is all on McD.  Who’s only proving we need an elite injury free team to win.  

There is a ton of revisionist history in this thread.  Who is the elite HC and OC that you want to hire?  They don’t grow on trees.

 

Some people here assume that a “hot” coordinator like Ben Johnson in Detroit is the answer.  We have no clue he’d be as HC - he has zero experience.  He also scored 6 points in a huge game versus Baltimore.  
 

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

50 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

McDermott is going nowhere. Nor should he. Why can’t y’all understand this lol. They’ll go through a full tear down full rebuild before they would even consider it. 

 

What do you think is on the horizon? Tre will be given an injury settlement. Hyde and Poyer will probably be replaced after 2024. Von Miller won't be around if he never retains his form. Morse is almost at the end of his career. We are approaching a point where tough decisions will have to be made, gutting our leadership. Do you think that Stefon will want to be a part of it like Devante Adams would have had to endure? NOPE. We don't HAVE TIME for this nonsense, to wait for McD to fix it when clearly he is incapable of doing so.

 

The current makeup of this team is about to be radically changed so you better prepare for it NOW.

Edited October 24, 2023 by EasternOHBillsFan

[JohnNord]

40 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree.  This is actually a big week IMO though. 

 

We have a "mini bye" and actual bye week still to come.  Home/primetime, if we lay another egg on offense I think that might be final straw

I'm not advocating for Coach to be fired/full rebuild.

 

But is there a poor enough record that it happens after season?  Ie: 7-10?  

 

Again, not advocating for that.  I think we have more personnel issues than coaching.  But this would be the offseason to make a change, given we are likely heading into next year at least "retooling"/having to maneuver around cap again.  This time we won't be kicking as much down the road, instead letting go of some higher priced contracts.

A few things that people don’t consider when they make statement like this:

 

- McDermott and Beane signed a 3 year extension this offseason and are under contract until 2027. 
 

- Terry would need to buy out 4 years of his contract, as well as hire a new HC. 
 

- From a pure business standpoint, under McDermott the Bills have performed well by almost every metric except winning the SB.   They have four very successful, winning seasons, not the case with the Sabres.   
 

- Terry respects and admire Sean and has given him a tremendous amount of power and autonomy around OBD.   
 

- Everyone wants to talk about Denver firing John Fox for Gary Kubiak.  It was a huge gamble that worked for Denver.  Firing Marty didn’t help SD take the next step.  Besides these moves don’t happen much.  
 

In the end, there is zero doubt in my mind that even after a 7-10 finish, McDermott would get a chance in 2024.  I think Terry believes he’s earned that 

[The Wiz]

14 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

McD has the injury excuse, but quite frankly his defense is performing poorly by all the defensive measures in the last 3 weeks since the injuries. Draft choices sucking is also a major contributor to the lack of depth, not to mention one awful game plan yesterday against Jones.

The defense kept the team in the games the last 3 weeks.  The offense failed with 6 points in the first half of the last 3 games.

 

I'll give you the NE game that they fell off but you can't expect them to be good every week while missing 7 players on defense.  What is the offenses excuse while no one is missing?

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

There is a ton of revisionist history in this thread.  Who is the elite HC and OC that you want to hire?  They don’t grow on trees.

 

Some people here assume that a “hot” coordinator like Ben Johnson in Detroit is the answer.  We have no clue he’d be as HC - he has zero experience.  He also scored 6 points in a huge game versus Baltimore.  
 

 

 

 

Why does it have to be him?

 

Does it not bother anyone you may have an organization filled with people way to comfortable in their jobs - it’s not like any of them are ….. distracting themselves with … yea.  
 

 

 

It doesn’t have to be Ben Johnson.  
 

This would be for Beane to decide - what do we pay him to do again? 

[JohnNord]

17 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

What do you think is on the horizon? Tre will be given an injury settlement. Hyde and Poyer will probably be replaced after 2024. Von Miller won't be around if he never retains his form. Morse is almost at the end of his career. We are approaching a point where tough decisions will have to be made, gutting our leadership. Do you think that Stefon will want to be a part of it like Devante Adams would have had to endure? NOPE. We don't HAVE TIME for this nonsense, to wait for McD to fix it when clearly he is incapable of doing so.

 

The current makeup of this team is about to be radically changed so you better prepare for it NOW.

I think this offseason was always going to be the year where they re-tooled a bit - Super Bowl or no Super Bowl.

 

There is an out in Tre White’s contract and I feel this will be exercised after this season.

 

I agree that the Bills will move on from Poyer and probably Hyde too.

 

Von Miller won’t go anywhere unless he retires.  He’s on the books for one more season until they have an out.  
 

Same with Diggs

 

Davis, Epinesa, and a lot of the DL depth are probably gone.  

 

So over the next few seasons we’re looking at replacing a lot of veteran players.  
 

 

[RyanC883]

55 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Mid-season all you can do is demote Dorsey and let someone else call the plays.

In the off season I think even without making the playoffs there is little to no chance Pegula fires McDermott.  Only a revolt by Allen could make it happen. 

McDermott had built in excuse for failure last year and now this year. We are stuck with him through the end of 2024.

Only then can we move on to someone else. 

 

agree/vomit.  really need that as an option. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

I think this offseason was always going to be the year where they re-tooled a bit - Super Bowl or no Super Bowl.

 

There is an out in Tre White’s contract and I feel this will be exercised after this season.

 

I agree that the Bills will move on from Poyer and probably Hyde too.

 

Von Miller won’t go anywhere unless he retires.  He’s on the books for one more season until they have an out.  
 

Same with Diggs

 

Davis, Epinesa, and a lot of the DL depth are probably gone.  

 

So over the next few seasons we’re looking at replacing a lot of veteran players.  
 

 

 

I just see what is coming and it's maddening... when McD and Beane act like it's business as usual, it makes it so much worse. "We'll get em next time" isn't viable.

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

I’m done listening to the blame on the OC.  

 

If this team needs an elite OC that will get hired as a HC immediately anyway then wtf are we doing here?  
 

It’s really unfair to Dorsey a first time play caller (year 2 yea I know) what’s going on right now.  
 

The pressure has to be getting to him.  

 

If we need a new OC to get the most out of peak Josh Allen, then the guy who hired the current OC is done.  It’s sad.  But it’s reality. 
 

 

So we let McD hire the new OC and hope he rights the ship.  He’s getting a HC job immediately.  And we do this dance again.  

 

Coaches have peaks to.  
 

McDs peak here was 2021-to week 4 of 2023.  Injuries derailed this season’s defense but I don’t really like how the HC is not getting the heat Ken is. 
 

Why is this team flat?  You needed elite players at every position on D to win?  Why does Elam not see the field?  Why can’t Dorian play over a 4 year Jag.  
 

If this season ends as it’s currently going, it’s time to completely clean house.  
 

 

This is all on McD.  Who’s only proving we need an elite injury free team to win.  

This is the original thread we all needed.  Finally someone said it

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

I’m done listening to the blame on the OC.  

 

If this team needs an elite OC that will get hired as a HC immediately anyway then wtf are we doing here?  
 

It’s really unfair to Dorsey a first time play caller (year 2 yea I know) what’s going on right now.  
 

The pressure has to be getting to him.  

 

If we need a new OC to get the most out of peak Josh Allen, then the guy who hired the current OC is done.  It’s sad.  But it’s reality. 
 

 

So we let McD hire the new OC and hope he rights the ship.  He’s getting a HC job immediately.  And we do this dance again.  

 

Coaches have peaks to.  
 

McDs peak here was 2021-to week 4 of 2023.  Injuries derailed this season’s defense but I don’t really like how the HC is not getting the heat Ken is. 
 

Why is this team flat?  You needed elite players at every position on D to win?  Why does Elam not see the field?  Why can’t Dorian play over a 4 year Jag.  
 

If this season ends as it’s currently going, it’s time to completely clean house.  
 

 

This is all on McD.  Who’s only proving we need an elite injury free team to win.  

I thought they gave Josh the gift of keeping Dorsey and the promotion.

 

No wonder Chad Hall left.

And here we are with Josh likely regretting his influence on McBeanes

 But yes , change need to come for Allen to become all he can be.

it aint gonna happen with the status quo.

[pigpen65]

No. Dorsey sucks at his job. McD doesn't suck. It's possible that he'll never be good enough to win a SuperBowl, but he's not horrible. Dorsey is horrible.

[k2mountain]

Heh. If they were 5-2 today instead of 4-3, this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion.

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, BillMafia716ix said:

McDermott is going nowhere. Nor should he. Why can’t y’all understand this lol. They’ll go through a full tear down full rebuild before they would even consider it. 

Full rebuild to come up short again. FML

[Since1981]

I’m being serious.

can anyone, anywhere describe to me how Dorsey has helped the O?  Anything?

[Big Blitz]

7 minutes ago, pigpen65 said:

No. Dorsey sucks at his job. McD doesn't suck. It's possible that he'll never be good enough to win a SuperBowl, but he's not horrible. Dorsey is horrible.

 

McD is good at his job.  
 

The Bills may need a new HC after this season.  
 

Both can be true.

 

Hope it works out.  

Totally good with waiting till Josh is 30 if needed.  Maybe 32?  McD has earned 9 years?  Or is it 10?  Coach for life?  
 

Just need at least 8 pro bowlers on D.  

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, BillMafia716ix said:

McDermott is going nowhere. Nor should he. Why can’t y’all understand this lol. They’ll go through a full tear down full rebuild before they would even consider it. 

It's either ride McDermott and lose Allen's prime or dump McDermott and give the best qb this franchise has ever had a bright OFFENSIVE mind who builds the team around allen not a washed up has been defensive scheme from carolina

[Big Blitz]

Just now, Billever76 said:

It's either ride McDermott and lose Allen's prime or dump McDermott and give the best qb this franchise has ever had a bright OFFENSIVE mind who builds the team around allen not a washed up has been defensive scheme from carolina

 

Thank you - that’s what we’re looking at here.  

[Chaos]

50 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

The offense failed with 6 points in the first half of the last 3 games.

 

Breaking news. Games aren't over at half time.  The Bills are last in the NFL in every defensive statistic over the last three games. This includes games against the two worst offensese. You honestly don't understand what you are seeing. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

51 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

The defense kept the team in the games the last 3 weeks.  The offense failed with 6 points in the first half of the last 3 games.

 

I'll give you the NE game that they fell off but you can't expect them to be good every week while missing 7 players on defense.  What is the offenses excuse while no one is missing?

No excuse just presenting the analytics. Could it be the O has been better than you think if whole game is taken into account?

[Chaos]

8 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

It's either ride McDermott and lose Allen's prime or dump McDermott and give the best qb this franchise has ever had a bright OFFENSIVE mind who builds the team around allen not a washed up has been defensive scheme from carolina

I agree  with this.  I don't think T. Pegula does. His opinion matters. Mine does not.  I think McDermott will get nine years like Dan Reeves did with John Elway. 

[Carmel Corn]

Has anybody noticed that McD seems to be doing a lot of talking while the OFFENSE is on the field?  He even goes as far as to cover his mouth with what looks like a play sheet in order to conceal whatever he is saying on his headset.  It almost looks like he's the one calling the plays, but surely that cannot be the case.  At the same time, I am wondering why McD is doing so much talking when the offense is on the field.

[Mango]

I don’t think McBeane or Pegula are mid season fire kind of guys. I think this is a good thing. 

[Low Positive]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Why does it have to be him?

 

Does it not bother anyone you may have an organization filled with people way to comfortable in their jobs - it’s not like any of them are ….. distracting themselves with … yea.  
 

 

 

It doesn’t have to be Ben Johnson.  
 

This would be for Beane to decide - what do we pay him to do again? 

All indications are that Beane and McD are a package deal. McD practically hired Beane. It would have to be a clean sweep, and do we trust Terry to get that right? 

[pigpen65]

56 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

McD is good at his job.  
 

The Bills may need a new HC after this season.  
 

Both can be true.

 

Hope it works out.  

Totally good with waiting till Josh is 30 if needed.  Maybe 32?  McD has earned 9 years?  Or is it 10?  Coach for life?  
 

Just need at least 8 pro bowlers on D.  

The thread title says if Dorsey needs to go, so does McD. That's ridiculous. The Offense and the team will benefit greatly from a better OC. The only reason McD would have to go too is if he's the one who lobbied for keeping Dorsey coming into this season.

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

But is there a poor enough record that it happens after season?  Ie: 7-10?  

 

7-10?  

 

If that were to happen then they need to let the entire staff go.  

 

This is a 9-8/10-7 team with just about any coach.  

 

Let's see how things play out.  

 

 

[Big Blitz]

2 minutes ago, pigpen65 said:

The thread title says if Dorsey needs to go, so does McD. That's ridiculous. The Offense and the team will benefit greatly from a better OC. The only reason McD would have to go too is if he's the one who lobbied for keeping Dorsey coming into this season.

 

 

 

[Governor]

GM’s don’t get 2 bites at the apple. No way you allow Beane to hire our next HC. They must both be banished.