Harbaugh under NCAA investigation again- sign stealing like Belichick's Cheatriots

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Whoa... he will do anything in order to win at Michigan now. Sad really...

 

"The NCAA is investigating the Michigan Wolverines' football program amid allegations of sign stealing, the Big Ten Conference announced Thursday.

The University of Michigan and the Big Ten were both notified by the NCAA of the investigation on Wednesday, and the conference said it had notified the Wolverines' future opponents."

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/ncaa-investigating-no-2-michigan-amid-sign-stealing-allegations/ar-AA1iweio

[US Egg]

Well, Harbaugh is “cooperating”. 😝

In spite of that, he seems the type.

[Punching Bag]

Auditioning to replace Beli-CHEAT when he retires or is forced out? 

[boyst]

Jim Harbaugh is a baby.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/flashback-jim-harbaugh-once-broke-his-hand-punching-jim-kelly/

 

Quote

Jim Kelly made some comments about me on a TV show in Buffalo. He basically said I was a baby, that I fake injuries," Harbaugh told Mitch Albom in 1997. "He said if he were still playing, he'd tell Buffalo players to hit me in the mouth and I'd get rattled."

As fate would have it, Kelly was scheduled to announce Harbaugh's game the first Sunday after he made the "baby" comment. At the time, Harbaugh was playing for the Colts. 

The day before the game, Harbaugh decided to "crash an NBC production meeting" and that's when things escalated.  

he broke his own hand being a little B word punching Jim.

[That's No Moon]

If you aren't trying to steal signals are you really trying? I'm not sure I understand why this is an issue. Maybe don't use a giant sign board that everyone can see?

[thenorthremembers]

3 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

If you aren't trying to steal signals are you really trying? I'm not sure I understand why this is an issue. Maybe don't use a giant sign board that everyone can see?

I agree.  This situation is completely different than taping a walk through.   I use to coach High School football and our opponents would do the same thing.   Of course they had tape, but they also had advanced scouts in attendance at our games, if they had tape, what else would they be there for?

 

If the opposing coaches didnt mix up their signs from game to game, thats on them.  I called offensive plays from the sidelines using hand signals and numbers.  I always changed the corresponding play and number by the half.   The next game the number scheme was completely different.  This way only myself and the QB knew what the play call was.     The article didnt have much information but I will wait and see what the details are before passing judgement.

 

There are a million ways to know what the other coach is going to call.   Some coaches only run 1 or 2 different plays out of a specific formation.  If you've done your due diligence you can get a pretty good idea as to what the other team is going to run in a specific situation, done/distance/where the ball is placed (yard line/wide side vs short side etc).  It's up to the opposing coach to understand their own tendencies and change those as well.   Like I said, should be interesting to see what the full details.   

Edited October 21, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[EasternOHBillsFan]

UPDATE to the story:

 

"Sources confirmed to ESPN that Stalions purchased tickets on both sides of the stadium -- across from each bench -- for Ohio State's game with Penn State on Saturday. Michigan plays both teams in upcoming weeks. According to sources, the tickets purchased by Stalions were not used Saturday. Stalions' name emerged publicly in an ESPN story Friday. He was suspended with pay by Michigan.

 

None of the tickets that the 11 schools told ESPN about involved Michigan as an opponent, per sources. The games involved either one or both of the teams that the Wolverines were playing later that season, according to sources."

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727023/u-m-staffer-bought-tickets-11-schools

[Willyville Guy]

Seems reasonable 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

"Jim Harbaugh went 2-4 in 2020, capping a 47-22 run (.681) over six years. Since @PeteThamel reported the Michigan allegations began in 2021, Michigan has gone 33-3 (.917). Conference record has improved from 34-16 (.680) to 22-1 (.956)" link

 

 

 

[Cynical]

A rarity SEC shorts take on a Big Ten development.

Or is it ...

 

 

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:40 AM, DrDawkinstein said:

"Jim Harbaugh went 2-4 in 2020, capping a 47-22 run (.681) over six years. Since @PeteThamel reported the Michigan allegations began in 2021, Michigan has gone 33-3 (.917). Conference record has improved from 34-16 (.680) to 22-1 (.956)" link

 

Also my wife pointed out that they never scouted TCU, which explains why TCU didn't have the same issues the other teams had. I bet they didn't have ANY tickets or material for TCU.... I mean, who could have predicted that?!?! Makes sense to me.

[Willyville Guy]

All I know is that if TUN’s wins over the Buckeyes in 2021 and 2022 are vacated I will laugh my ass off. 

[Mark92]

As a Michigan Alum this whole situation is unsettling.  I do not condone what they are being accused of.  If they cheated then they deserve whatever punishment they get.  I feel awful for the players though.  Harbaughs has actually built a great team and it might all get tossed. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Anyone able to confirm a wellness check on @Mark Vader?

[EasternOHBillsFan]

22 hours ago, Mark92 said:

As a Michigan Alum this whole situation is unsettling.  I do not condone what they are being accused of.  If they cheated then they deserve whatever punishment they get.  I feel awful for the players though.  Harbaughs has actually built a great team and it might all get tossed. 

 

Classy response. Nobody wants to see this in the game, and it is disheartening to see some voices blowing this off. I feel the same way about Urban Meyer's misconduct as I do about this... sports must do better and clean up its act.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Well, this just took a turn...

[Mr. WEO]

lots of pearl clutching here...

 

anyway: https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727764/what-college-football-coaches-saying-sign-stealing

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

 

"House plants, they have their functions. They can be beautiful in the home. They can bring great beauty and value to a home. But the field corn: Just drop a seed in a crack of a sidewalk and it'll burrow down and come up with energy, then rise up in a stalk-like fashion and start producing."

 

Makes sense... Everything is fine... 🤪

[EasternOHBillsFan]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

"House plants, they have their functions. They can be beautiful in the home. They can bring great beauty and value to a home. But the field corn: Just drop a seed in a crack of a sidewalk and it'll burrow down and come up with energy, then rise up in a stalk-like fashion and start producing."

 

Makes sense... Everything is fine... 🤪

 

Sounds corny to me *ba doomp ching*

 

Some people are giving it the "everybody does it" routine, but evidently TTUN isn't since they yanked his extension *supposedly*

[YoloinOhio]

20 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

"House plants, they have their functions. They can be beautiful in the home. They can bring great beauty and value to a home. But the field corn: Just drop a seed in a crack of a sidewalk and it'll burrow down and come up with energy, then rise up in a stalk-like fashion and start producing."

 

Makes sense... Everything is fine... 🤪

There is an echo in this guy’s head 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

In the spirit of Halloween, more of the sordid TTUN story unfolds!!!

 

"Central Michigan is investigating photos that show a man resembling Michigan Wolverines staff member Connor Stalions on its sideline for the Sept. 1 opener at Michigan State.

 

Athletic director Amy Folan, in a statement to ESPN, said the school became aware of the photos late Monday. The man resembling Stalions is dressed in Central Michigan-issued gear and standing alongside several of the team's coaches, while wearing a bench credential.

 

The credential reads "VB" and appears to be designated for the visiting bench area, which is different than a general sideline pass. It gives access to the designated area between the 20 yard lines, which is reserved for players, coaches, trainers and equipment staff. Schools are given a finite amount of passes for each game."

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38787197/cmu-investigating-michigan-connor-stalions-potential-sideline-presence

 

[Lost]

[May Day 10]

Death penalty for Michigan and ban Harbough

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

Death penalty for Michigan and ban Harbough

 

I just want Tony Pettiti, the Big Ten Commissioner, to do the right thing... so far no action looks very bad on the conference and him personally. He's choosing the money if Michigan keeps winning over what's right.

[Simon]

4 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Death penalty for Michigan and ban Harbough

 

I disagree.

Reverse that and I'm on board.

[stuvian]

this would be a good time for his agent to call Mark Davis

[Rico]

On 11/1/2023 at 1:10 PM, May Day 10 said:

Death penalty for Michigan and ban Harbough

Fire and/or ban Harbaugh, no problem

but if Penn State didn't get the death penalty for human trash like Sandusky and JoePa,

no way can you do it to Michigan

[bigduke6]

none of this will be sorted this current season.   if its as bad as it smells like it is,  Jimmy will bolt for the NFL ala Pete Carroll from USC and Michigan will be back to the subpar program they were up until the last 2 seasons.   Michigan has 90 days to contest any findings,  season will be over by then.   will be an offseason issue and Michigan will most likely make it to the playoffs this current season,  and lose like usual.

Edited November 3, 2023 by bigduke6

[Buffalo Super Fan]

I am no Michigan Wolverines fan but this is ridiculous. Michigan Wolverines win this season because they are good period. Signs aren’t going to block the guy in front of you. Having a talented team does that. It sounds like a lot of sour grapes and being a bad sport by Big Ten Conference coaches that got beat and instead of putting your hand out shake there hand say good luck the rest of the year. Being a good sport they whine to the NCAA Michigan is cheating. It’s stupid they are all doing shady stuff especially most of the top 50 college football programs in my opinion. College sports has been run shady for the 50 years I have followed. If sign stealing made you a winner you don’t think Nebraska Cornhuskers would try that to get back to what they once were under Dr Tom Osbourne sign stealing? My UB Bulls? It’s called talent wins Michigan Wolverines are good period. If sign stealing was that big of a deal shouldn’t the New England Patriots and Houston Astros still be champions today because it’s so much of an advantage? It’s not a advantage you need great players and coaches to win. The biggest change I see in sports today is major accountability and what I call bad sportsmanship problems today in all levels of sports refusing to accept reality you got beat be a good sport and shake hands.
 

Deion Sanders with the Colorado Buffaloes is a good example of this the players were great when you are winning early in the season. Now some of those same players aren’t good enough instead of accepting personal responsibility. Deion Sanders blames the offensive line and wants to replace them all next season so he says instead of look at himself and his QB son? It’s never there fault it is someone else’s fault. So that same Colorado Buffaloes offensive line isn’t good enough now but it was ok when Deion Sanders was winning. Good luck with that attitude especially the sons when they get to the NFL. NFL teams aren’t going to put up with that entitlement very long in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Buffalo Super Fan

[EasternOHBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Deion Sanders with the Colorado Buffaloes is a good example of this the players were great when you are winning early in the season. Now some of those same players aren’t good enough instead of accepting personal responsibility. Deion Sanders blames the offensive line and wants to replace them all next season so he says instead of look at himself and his QB son? It’s never there fault it is someone else’s fault. So that same Colorado Buffaloes offensive line isn’t good enough now but it was ok when Deion Sanders was winning. Good luck with that attitude especially the sons when they get to the NFL. NFL teams aren’t going to put up with that entitlement very long in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

How did a thread about Michigan's numerous violations pivot to Deion and the Buffaloes? Wow.

 

The seriousness of Michigan's misconduct under Harbaugh is lost on you, evidently... "super fans" with brilliant ideas of cheating the system and no regard for even trying to hide the electronic and visual paper trail are the problem here, and its no wonder you think it's no big deal.

[bigduke6]

if you know the other teams plays,  know when they run them,  its an order of magnitude easier to stop them or take advantage of them.  end of story.   talent matters yes,  but knowing another teams plays ahead of time so you can easily counter them and give your players a huge advantage is not in the spirit of any game.   in the very least,  its extremely unsportsmanlike,  and it cheapens what happens on the field by the players.   when you cheapen what occurs on the field,  it cheapens the game as a whole,  and people will stop taking it seriously as fans.

 

for example.  if, hypothetically, there was a QB who plays amazing in college,  everybody wants him,  gets to the NFL and suddenly cant do anything close to what he did in college when it comes to reading the field.  people dig and find out his college coaches knew the opposing defenses plays,  allowing that QB to know exactly where and when to throw with relative ease and safety,  thats a player who is a FRAUD!!!!.  Fraud player goes on to cost others their jobs,  money,  reputation,  etc because he isnt what they thought he was.

 

we assume as fans that every game is a somewhat level playing field rules wise.  you take that away and you become "professional" wrestling.

if yer not cheating,  yer not trying hard enough,   is not a valid excuse at the amateur level,  and frankly,  the pro level as well.

 

how some cant seem to grasp this boggles the mind.

Edited November 3, 2023 by bigduke6

[thenorthremembers]

Can we just get rid of the sham that is college football and start and NFL farm league?   Could be the first step in getting college back to an affordable rate for those who actually go to class and earn their degree.    

Edited November 3, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[EasternOHBillsFan]

13 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Can we just get rid of the sham that is college football and start and NFL farm league?   Could be the first step in getting college back to an affordable rate for those who actually go to class and earn their degree.    

 

There already is an affordable rate... online courses. Nobody really needs to go to a brick and mortar university anymore.

 

The coaches started this nonsense with their salaries in the millions of dollars paid out by ADs.

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

There already is an affordable rate... online courses.

Nobody really needs to go to a brick and mortar university anymore.

 

I promise that you do not want your doctors and surgeons and structural engineers to be online-course trained.

 

Liberal Arts majors on the other hand… right there with ya.

 

I don’t want enough college football to be informed, so someone can feel free to slap me with a dose of reality if i’m off-base here, but I don’t understand the big deal with this sign stealing stuff. I understand if you’re sneaking into practices and filming (cough, Belichick), but grabbing data from signs that are literally shown on live TV for the entire world to see? Seems odd to me.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I promise that you do not want your doctors and surgeons and structural engineers to be online-course trained.

 

Liberal Arts majors on the other hand… right there with ya.

 

OK... OK... so MAYBE by statement was a tad over the top... good call. 

[BarleyNY]

The B1G commissioner will be handing down the first round of penalties as soon as today. It looks like it will be more than just Hairball. 

[Bill from NYC]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:52 PM, Buffalo Super Fan said:

I am no Michigan Wolverines fan but this is ridiculous. Michigan Wolverines win this season because they are good period.

They ARE good but their pansy ass schedule doesn't really hurt them either, dontcha think?

[EasternOHBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

They ARE good but their pansy ass schedule doesn't really hurt them either, dontcha think?

 

Fortunately "the eye test" won't be a factor next season when the playoff expansion happens... finally they have a REAL playoff format instead of a "smoke filled room" one.

[cle23]

On 11/3/2023 at 2:37 AM, bigduke6 said:

if you know the other teams plays,  know when they run them,  its an order of magnitude easier to stop them or take advantage of them.  end of story.   talent matters yes,  but knowing another teams plays ahead of time so you can easily counter them and give your players a huge advantage is not in the spirit of any game.   in the very least,  its extremely unsportsmanlike,  and it cheapens what happens on the field by the players.   when you cheapen what occurs on the field,  it cheapens the game as a whole,  and people will stop taking it seriously as fans.

 

for example.  if, hypothetically, there was a QB who plays amazing in college,  everybody wants him,  gets to the NFL and suddenly cant do anything close to what he did in college when it comes to reading the field.  people dig and find out his college coaches knew the opposing defenses plays,  allowing that QB to know exactly where and when to throw with relative ease and safety,  thats a player who is a FRAUD!!!!.  Fraud player goes on to cost others their jobs,  money,  reputation,  etc because he isnt what they thought he was.

 

we assume as fans that every game is a somewhat level playing field rules wise.  you take that away and you become "professional" wrestling.

if yer not cheating,  yer not trying hard enough,   is not a valid excuse at the amateur level,  and frankly,  the pro level as well.

 

how some cant seem to grasp this boggles the mind.

 

Which recent Michigan draft pick has been a major bust?  Not all have panned out, but most are very good to at least above average, and those that aren't are mostly late rounders.  So which are frauds?  Hutchinson?  Kwity Paye?  Dax Hill? DJ Turner? Mazi Smith?  The only somewhat high pick that i would say has disappointed has been Luke Schoonmaker, but he is a backup TE in his first year.

[SirAndrew]

On 11/9/2023 at 9:16 AM, Bill from NYC said:

They ARE good but their pansy ass schedule doesn't really hurt them either, dontcha think?

Agree, the Big Ten is insanely overrated. Everyone wants a competitive foe to the SEC, but it simply doesn’t exist. The Big Ten  has great players who will become stars in the NFL, but the league overall isn’t that great. Check out todays barn burner with Michigan vs PSU. Is that great defense, or lack of offensive talent? I’m not impressed.