McD and Daboll hate each other probably 🤣

[McBean]

12 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Maybe McD pissed at the cheap shots? Daboll holding a grudge for 13 seconds? 

I’ll forever hold the grudge until McClap delivers us a Lombardi which btw, he never will.

 

Daboll should be our HC. Should’ve been hired on the tarmac in KC after 13 seconds.The offense wouldn’t be in the mess it’s in right now I can tell you that. 

[muppy]

I think that was about as curt a greeting and acknowledgment of another person there could possibly be. Mere formality , No Love Lost at all whatsoever

 

 

 

 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

I wonder of McD will lighten up a bit if he wins the superbowl. It's difficult to put this into context because we don't know why they are so cold to one another, but McD comes off as a bit rigid just in general.

[Big Turk]

32 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Sorry but this is ridiculous. There is more than enough circumstantial evidence, including information contained in a lawsuit, to show that Daboll and McD are not friendly.

 

Yes, that is called "Hearsay" in a court of law and is not admissible, FYI.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Big Turk

[Cheektowaga Chad]

28 minutes ago, McBean said:

I’ll forever hold the grudge until McClap delivers us a Lombardi which btw, he never will.

 

Daboll should be our HC. Should’ve been hired on the tarmac in KC after 13 seconds.The offense wouldn’t be in the mess it’s in right now I can tell you that. 

I'm glad daboll isn't the bills head coach because I don't think he is a very good one judging by the way he coached Sunday night

 

In game coaching cost the giants a win Sunday 

[Low Positive]

42 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Maybe because he is in shape and has testosterone flowing thru his body unlike most of the coaches who are fat butterballs that have more estrogen in their bodies from fat cell production than their wives do?  Mike Tomlin seems the same way.

 I think Mike McDaniel takes estrogen supplements.

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Yes, that is called "Hearsay" in a court of law and is not admissible, FYI.

 

I know I had a bit too much to drink last night, but did I stumble into a courtroom accidentally?

Where am I?

 

PS, there are exceptions to hearsay which do allow it in court. One example is a recorded recollection that accurately reflects the witness’s knowledge.

[Fleezoid]

Daboll left the family. McDermott should have spit on the ground and said, "You are dead to me!"

[Mango]

1 hour ago, boater said:

I am predisposed to not liking Daboll. He's a raging hothead. I remember him on the sidelines (before he went upstairs) raging at rookie Allen for his mistakes. That Allen's play improved when Daboll went to the booth is no coincidence.

 

I've worked for hotheads before. It's miserable.

 

McD is the opposite of hothead and maybe he doesn't like Daboll for his.

 

I agree with this.

Don't get me wrong, coaches can scream, swear, and have their moments. But those have to only be moments or blips in maybe very extreme circumstances. A once in a blue moon occurrence. It cannot be your personality in 2023. That isn't how teams or professionals work anymore.

 

I know there is a whole faction who think "people are getting soft". But honestly coaches who act like this across the world are getting canned in all sorts of professional/Olympic sports, and every year/quadrennial world records keep getting broken. Athletes are getting better, faster, stronger. Working harder. Participation is increasing. The level it takes to win from HS onwards in just about every sport has never been higher. 

 

Professional sports is a high stakes pressure cooker. It should be. But there are coaches out there in 2023 who are getting more out of there athletes without being a total blowhard.  It is sort of like Michael Jordan, the better you are the more people are willing to put up with. Jordan is a notorious Richard Noggin. But people put up with it because he is/was the absolute greatest to ever do it. He transcended the league. If you belong in the Hall of Pretty Good you can't act like Jordan. 

[Marcus Aurelius]

[Heitz]

1 hour ago, Just in Atlanta said:

Having said that, it looks evident there is static between these two, at least based on the three seconds of video of the exchange. 

 

Which is how all things are judged in today's society - the three second eye test. 🤣 🤷‍♂️  

[Einstein]

46 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

If someone said it in a lawsuit it must be true.

 

If it was just the notes in the lawsuit, I’d likely agree with you. 

 

However, it’s the lawsuit, plus several reports of McD and Daboll not seeing eye to eye, plus McD’s comments in the past, and now this video where they seem reticent to shake hands.

 

Fans can shove their head into the sand if they desire, but I don’t see what good it does.

 

This whole thing reminds me of something McD said about a month before Daboll left for the Giants: 

 

"Well I didn't think, honestly, we took advantage of opportunities tonight. I really didn't. The ball is at the 40-yard line. We're 1-for-4 in the red zone… If you were in the team meetings in training camp, you would know what style of offense I want"

 

For a coach that is notorious for not calling our players, that statement was pretty alarming at the time.

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

I doubt McD is a likable guy, he always seems like he’s barely controlling seething rage.

 

The Daboll/Allen relationship is cool though. He did a lot for Allen and Allen did a lot for him. 
 

Edit: I’m not saying McD is a bad coach at all. But come on, even the clapping is aggressive. 

 

If we're counting, I'm pretty sure McDermott did a lot for Daboll (and, Daboll did a lot for him) - starting with McDermott hired him to coach a talented rookie QB.  Daboll's record as an OC prior to Buffalo was so poor many questioned that decision, and indeed, he did appear to learn on the job as we went.

 

I also don't know how you get the "not a likeable guy".  He's intense, but he does come across as caring about people.  My guess would be he compartmentalizes pretty fiercely.

[BillsFan2313]

12 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

Probably because Daboll feels like he should be the one still in Buffalo rather than McD. After all Daboll is basically Buffalo’s son, along with the likes of Gronk and UB players that are actually good and want to be here ( Khalil Mack). Imagine if we actually kept our own. 

 

They have a total of 4 wins since their 7-2 start last year. Yeah, imagine. 

[Your Brown Eye]

59 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Maybe because he is in shape and has testosterone flowing thru his body unlike most of the coaches who are fat butterballs that have more estrogen in their bodies from fat cell production than their wives do?  Mike Tomlin seems the same way.

 

Why is it I read this post in an Arnold Schwarzenegger voice?

[Beck Water]

58 minutes ago, McBean said:

I’ll forever hold the grudge until McClap delivers us a Lombardi which btw, he never will.

 

Daboll should be our HC. Should’ve been hired on the tarmac in KC after 13 seconds.The offense wouldn’t be in the mess it’s in right now I can tell you that. 

 

Hmmmmmm. 

We do remember that in 2021 under Daboll, the Bills lost to the Jags 6-9 and got blown out by the Colts 15-41, and there were "fire Daboll" threads on this board on a regular basis after games where the offense "laid an egg"?  We had no run game....

 

We do know that the Giants are 1-5 right?

Edited October 17, 2023 by Beck Water

[RunTheBall]

Ha!

 

Love McD. Isn't going to pretend he likes a guy if he doesn't. 

 

There were more fire Daboll threads than there are fire Dorsey threads at this time and some are acting like we lost Vince Lombardi to the G-men. Let's see how his team responds to being a doormat before we lament the fact that we kept the winningest coach in franchise history over the angry fat guy. And I liked Daboll glad he landed a HC gig. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, jlgarsh said:

That's great to learn about Dick Vermiel. Dale Carnegie works. I was skeptical when my work signed me up years ago. But it helps you communicate with your staff more effectively and hash things out in a productive manner.

 

Agree on the skepticism and the usefulness

 

Didn't work with 'Mad Mike' Martz LOL

[RyanC883]

13 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

I doubt McD is a likable guy, he always seems like he’s barely controlling seething rage.

 

The Daboll/Allen relationship is cool though. He did a lot for Allen and Allen did a lot for him. 
 

Edit: I’m not saying McD is a bad coach at all. But come on, even the clapping is aggressive. 

 

Well, Daboll had plenty of seething rage at Taylor after Taylor checked into a run.  Hey coach, you don't want a player to check to a run, don't let it be an option.  Was totally unprofessional how Daboll handled that.  

 

I think they are both in over their heads as HCs.  

1 hour ago, McBean said:

I’ll forever hold the grudge until McClap delivers us a Lombardi which btw, he never will.

 

Daboll should be our HC. Should’ve been hired on the tarmac in KC after 13 seconds.The offense wouldn’t be in the mess it’s in right now I can tell you that. 

 

I'd take neither as HC. 

[Dr.Sack]

McD has a way better career winning % than Daboll, outside of playoff winning %.

 

Daboll .457

McD .641

[Mango]

30 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

If it was just the notes in the lawsuit, I’d likely agree with you. 

 

However, it’s the lawsuit, plus several reports of McD and Daboll not seeing eye to eye, plus McD’s comments in the past, and now this video where they seem reticent to shake hands.

 

Fans can shove their head into the sand if they desire, but I don’t see what good it does.

 

This whole thing reminds me of something McD said about a month before Daboll left for the Giants: 

 

"Well I didn't think, honestly, we took advantage of opportunities tonight. I really didn't. The ball is at the 40-yard line. We're 1-for-4 in the red zone… If you were in the team meetings in training camp, you would know what style of offense I want"

 

For a coach that is notorious for not calling our players, that statement was pretty alarming at the time.

 

I think there is some frustration around Allen's game from everybody. Not necessarily the staff, but it is fair to say he is a rollercoaster. I don't mean this as a criticism. Allen is a dawg. I love him as our QB. Outside of Mahomes, there isn't another I would take on this team. It just sort of is what it is.

 

I am at a point where I think Allen more or less made Daboll. But because of how high the high's are (MIA) and how low the low's are (NYJ) there is some hesitancy to get away from what we have been good at because of how much the pendulum can swing. And that is how we ended up with Dorsey and why the staff was so hard up on making him the next OC.

All of that is to say, I don't really see this offense as wildly different than Daboll. It seems like we have just as many "Fire Dorsey" threads as we did "Fire Daboll" thread. The comments feel nearly identical.

 

 

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

This is probably the most likely aspect of any ill will on McDermott's side

 

It's often not a good idea to try and raid the staff of the job you're leaving to fill your own staff at a new job

 

It's one thing to take one or even two guys with you but wouldn't shock me with the gm being from buffalo if they went hard after all the guys still staffed in buffalo 

I suspect that it’s this.  And maybe the fact that Daboll bailed from work early one day during the week of 13 seconds.  And I suspect that McD thinks Daboll was the source of the Ben Volin (sp) article about friction in the Bills’ locker room (as do I).  If the last point is true, it’s unforgivable from McD’s perspective. 

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

I think there is some frustration around Allen's game from everybody. Not necessarily the staff, but it is fair to say he is a rollercoaster. I don't mean this as a criticism. Allen is a dawg. I love him as our QB. Outside of Mahomes, there isn't another I would take on this team. It just sort of is what it is.

 

I am at a point where I think Allen more or less made Daboll. But because of how high the high's are (MIA) and how low the low's are (NYJ) there is some hesitancy to get away from what we have been good at because of how much the pendulum can swing. And that is how we ended up with Dorsey and why the staff was so hard up on making him the next OC.

All of that is to say, I don't really see this offense as wildly different than Daboll. It seems like we have just as many "Fire Dorsey" threads as we did "Fire Daboll" thread. The comments feel nearly identical.

 

 

I think they made each other.  Allen pulling an “Allen” frequently made Daboll look better than the scheme.  But he could only pull the “Allen” bc Daboll helped him get there. 

[BrooklynBills]

5 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

This seems like much more than difference of opinion in terms of coaching philosophy.

 

I recall after 2020 it seemed like McDermott was annoyed that Daboll didn't get a head coaching job. It raised a red flag for me at that time. It seemed like he was ready to move on.

 

Other thoughts that come to mind...

 

Perhaps Daboll was angry with McDermott over 13 seconds. Someone on X said there were rumors that Daboll let McDermott have it afterwards, which would make sense given that Daboll had just overseen a legendary offensive performance and then McDermott ruined it, robbing Daboll of the chance to win a Super Bowl for his hometown team and for Josh on his way out.

 

 

I'm pretty sure Daboll was offered the Chargers job after the 2020 season and he didn't take it because he had reservations about Chargers ownership (this wasn't reported but I trust who I heard it from). So I could definitely buy into the idea that McD was ready to move on especially considering how much they seemed to clash in the following season.

 

[hondo in seattle]

We've noticed the friction since Daboll was here, especially with damn-with-faint-praise.  Although they never publicly criticized each other, Daboll never gushed about McD or vice versa. 

 

For instance, more recently, Daboll had nice things to say about the Bills organization and mentioned the Pegulas and Beane by name but didn't mention McD.  If something like that happened once, it could be a simple oversight.  But there's a pattern of signs of mutual distaste that now includes a tepid handshake.  

 

 

[SectionC3]

6 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

We've noticed the friction since Daboll was here, especially with damn-with-faint-praise.  Although they never publicly criticized each other, Daboll never gushed about McD or vice versa. 

 

For instance, more recently, Daboll had nice things to say about the Bills organization and mentioned the Pegulas and Beane by name but didn't mention McD.  If something like that happened once, it could be a simple oversight.  But there's a pattern of signs of mutual distaste that now includes a tepid handshake.  

 

 

Remember the article (I think by Ty Dunne) in which a former assistant is quoted as saying “I’d rather tell him to his face” in response to a question about what it was like working for McDermott.  I’ve assumed it was

Daboll, and the “handshake” doesn’t disabuse that notion. 

[BrooklynBills]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

I’ll forever hold the grudge until McClap delivers us a Lombardi which btw, he never will.

 

Daboll should be our HC. Should’ve been hired on the tarmac in KC after 13 seconds.The offense wouldn’t be in the mess it’s in right now I can tell you that. 

 

Offense had PLENTY of stinkers in Daboll's time as the OC even in the "holy grail" 2020 season that everyone is pining for.

 

4 game stretch in 2020 - Titans, Jets, Chiefs, NE where the offense couldn't do anything.

Baltimore playoff game where they refused to run at all in the 1st half

1st half of the KC championship game where they couldn't do anything

 

2021

Game 1 - Steelers - no answer/adjustment to their defense

Game 2 - Dolphins - offense was trash in this game

Game 9 - Jags 9-6 game - no answer or adjustments to how they were being played.

Game 11 - Colts - offense sucked (so did the whole team)

Game 15 - Panthers - offense struggled

Game 17 - Falcons - offense was terrible

Game 18 - Jets - offense wasn't good again.

 

The 2021 playoff run glosses over SO MUCH struggling that this offense went through under Daboll.  Even in the KC :13 sec game, the offense had 14 points with 2 minutes left in the 3rd Q.

 

He did a great job with the 2022 Giants but I think a bunch of that was catching people off guard by using designed runs for Daniel Jones.  Thats also what he did alot of here when his O started to struggle.  Its just not a sustainable way to develop an offense IMO.

 

[jlgarsh]

31 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I think there is some frustration around Allen's game from everybody. Not necessarily the staff, but it is fair to say he is a rollercoaster. I don't mean this as a criticism. Allen is a dawg. I love him as our QB. Outside of Mahomes, there isn't another I would take on this team. It just sort of is what it is.

 

I am at a point where I think Allen more or less made Daboll. But because of how high the high's are (MIA) and how low the low's are (NYJ) there is some hesitancy to get away from what we have been good at because of how much the pendulum can swing. And that is how we ended up with Dorsey and why the staff was so hard up on making him the next OC.

All of that is to say, I don't really see this offense as wildly different than Daboll. It seems like we have just as many "Fire Dorsey" threads as we did "Fire Daboll" thread. The comments feel nearly identical.

 

 

Look, there were times when people were frustrated with Daboll. I myself remember the NE wind game they lost where he kept calling running plays until the 4th quarter. Josh's arm strength was enough that they should have called passes way sooner, since he wasn't effected like other QBs would be. But those were few & far between. With Dorsey it's every single week. Daboll called the most unbelievable playoff offense in history in January 2021. Perfect game vs. New England & then had the Chiefs beat before Frazier et al. blew it. Dorsey does not compare. 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

If it was just the notes in the lawsuit, I’d likely agree with you. 

 

However, it’s the lawsuit, plus several reports of McD and Daboll not seeing eye to eye, plus McD’s comments in the past, and now this video where they seem reticent to shake hands.

 

Fans can shove their head into the sand if they desire, but I don’t see what good it does.

 

This whole thing reminds me of something McD said about a month before Daboll left for the Giants: 

 

"Well I didn't think, honestly, we took advantage of opportunities tonight. I really didn't. The ball is at the 40-yard line. We're 1-for-4 in the red zone… If you were in the team meetings in training camp, you would know what style of offense I want"

 

For a coach that is notorious for not calling our players, that statement was pretty alarming at the time.

 

I had forgotten about that.  As you say, McD doesn't normally publicly call people out so he must have been particularly pissed.  A tip of the iceberg moment.  

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Two totally different personalities.

 

Daboll is pretty clever and he knows it but he's a sloppy mess as a HC.   His strengths plays a lot better in a smaller role.  Those guys tend to have disastrous seasons like he is having now.   As I've been telling people here for years........he's like a Sam Wyche 2.0........but in a league where success is more fleeting due to free agency/salary cap.

 

McDermott isn't as clever but also probably knows it and is subsequently systematic and detail oriented and guys like him tend to win consistently at the NFL level because so much of the success is just getting a whole bunch of 20 something year old guys to stay on point and in sync.

 

Perhaps ideally you find someone who is the best of both...........but if you want one or the other it sure ain't Daboll.

 

 

 

[jlgarsh]

Week 18 2021 doesn't count. Josh played like 8 snaps to get his guys to their milestones. The week 17 Falcons game Josh was sloppy with the ball. It happens, but they won. That week 1 Steelers game was a wakeup call and the Offense got into gear after that. The Jags game the plays were fine, guys didn't execute. 2020 AFC championship Singletary dropped a sure TD when wide open that would have given the Bills a 2 score lead. He wasn't calling shotgun runs on 3rd/4th and inches or goal to go.

[Pecos Bills]

46 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

McD has a way better career winning % than Daboll, outside of playoff winning %.

 

Daboll .457

McD .641

To be fair, McDermott's record was 11-12 through the same number of regular-season games as Daboll has coached (10-12-1).

[jlgarsh]

14 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

 

 

Posted this in the other thread, but Josh to Daboll after the game: 

 

[Bruffalo]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Maybe because he is in shape and has testosterone flowing thru his body unlike most of the coaches who are fat butterballs that have more estrogen in their bodies from fat cell production than their wives do?  Mike Tomlin seems the same way.

 

Would you rather McDermott try to steal Josh Allen's "nuggies"?

I don't know how to react to anything you just wrote.  Is this some Andrew Tate stuff or something? But go ahead and tee off on fat guys I guess.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

2 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

I don't know how to react to anything you just wrote.  Is this some Andrew Tate stuff or something? But go ahead and tee off on fat guys I guess.

If you are fat, you are one of two things: lazy or disabled. There is no in between.

[Bruffalo]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

If we're counting, I'm pretty sure McDermott did a lot for Daboll (and, Daboll did a lot for him) - starting with McDermott hired him to coach a talented rookie QB.  Daboll's record as an OC prior to Buffalo was so poor many questioned that decision, and indeed, he did appear to learn on the job as we went.

 

I also don't know how you get the "not a likeable guy".  He's intense, but he does come across as caring about people.  My guess would be he compartmentalizes pretty fiercely.

I've worked with people with his demeanor before, I don't find it enjoyable or likable to be around a controlling perfectionist. 

This isn't a dig at him doing his job.  I think he's a very solid head coach, bordering on elite, but the game management issues hold that back.  It's not even really a dig at him personally, because maybe it's just his nature.  Being not likable is not the same as being a bad person, at least in my eyes. 

[BRH]

10 minutes ago, Pecos Bills said:

To be fair, McDermott's record was 11-12 through the same number of regular-season games as Daboll has coached (10-12-1).

 

This sounds a lot like the folks who were arguing Mac Jones would turn into Josh Allen because they had the same stats after their first 15 or whatever games.

[Bruffalo]

3 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

If you are fat, you are one of two things: lazy or disabled. There is no in between.

Ah yeah, absolutes. That's the cornerstone of a sound perspective and not in any way related to insecurity.  

[Pecos Bills]

2 minutes ago, BRH said:

 

This sounds a lot like the folks who were arguing Mac Jones would turn into Josh Allen because they had the same stats after their first 15 or whatever games.

Huh.  This sounds like you are reading more into a simple statement of fact than is actually there.

[Dr.Sack]

18 minutes ago, Pecos Bills said:

To be fair, McDermott's record was 11-12 through the same number of regular-season games as Daboll has coached (10-12-1).

But Daboll had arguably a more experienced QB than 2017 Tyrod/Pederman and 2018 Pederman/Rookie Allen

[TheFunPolice]

There's no need to try to bend yourself in a pretzel to deny the obvious.

 

This is absolutely not normal for a post-game handshake, especially for a guy "coming home" and playing against his former team. It looked to me like Daboll was surprised and even looked back toward McDermott after (right before he gave Josh a huge hug). 

 

Now, does it mean anything in terms of the Bills season? Not really, but it's clear these two do not like each other, and not just from this video.