Hunter Renfrow

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I know it’ll be hard to fit him in and we’re moving to 12 personnel but he seems like the perfect fit for what we use to do offensively and he’s available for a late pick.

 

Is Beane missing an opportunity by not trading for Renfrow?

[Virgil]

I don't think our personnel is the problem.  Sherfield was good on the Dolphins.  Harty gets open.  Davis (matter of opinion on here).  Dorsey doesn't know how to call plays for anyone besides Diggs.  

 

Unless we are playing the Dolphins, which Josh just owns, changing anything besides Dorsey isn't going to matter

[KDIGGZ]

It's not the personnel. There's zero creativity in these plays with actual stupidity mixed in (shotgun from the 1 inch line). We need a new play caller

[Bangarang]

He’s pretty expensive salary wise.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

He’s pretty expensive salary wise.

 

Yeah he'd only work if cut.  Plus then you have to cut someone to accommodate.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

It's not the personnel. There's zero creativity in these plays with actual stupidity mixed in (shotgun from the 1 inch line). We need a new play caller

We have a bunch of JAGS other than Diggs that can’t run routes.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[JMM]

It will be interested to hear from people after they view the All22. Seems hard to believe that other guys aren't getting open for Josh. Talent is upgraded this year. I tend to think it's a combo of Josh locked in on Diggs but also poor design from Dorsey. I'm getting THIS close to saying I'm done with him. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He’s pretty expensive salary wise.

He’s cheaper than Beasley was.

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Yeah he'd only work if cut.  Plus then you have to cut someone to accommodate.

If you trade for him you can easily extend him and rework the deal.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

7 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don't think our personnel is the problem.  Sherfield was good on the Dolphins.  Harty gets open.  Davis (matter of opinion on here).  Dorsey doesn't know how to call plays for anyone besides Diggs.  

 

Unless we are playing the Dolphins, which Josh just owns, changing anything besides Dorsey isn't going to matter

 

He doesn't really even know how to call plays for Diggs. A lot of those plays seem to be tough throws. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don't think our personnel is the problem.  Sherfield was good on the Dolphins.  Harty gets open.  Davis (matter of opinion on here).  Dorsey doesn't know how to call plays for anyone besides Diggs.  

 

Unless we are playing the Dolphins, which Josh just owns, changing anything besides Dorsey isn't going to matter

All of them are players no one cares about on the defensive side of the ball. JAGS as they say.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I said this in the offseason, Hunter Renfrow all day baby

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We have a bunch of JAGS other than Diggs that can’t run routes.

I can't argue with that but there's not a lot of teams with a bunch of good receivers besides the Bengals and Dolphins. Most teams it's a WR1 and then a bunch of cheap supporting players. I personally would have traded a 1st for a top WR2 rather than waste a pick on a TE but that's me. With TE's there's not a lot of difference between the top guys in any draft as we saw with LaPorta getting drafted lower but being way better than Kincaid

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He’s cheaper than Beasley was.

No he’s not. Renfrow’s cap hit next year is $13.7 mil. You’re praying that his lack of production is a result of McDaniels otherwise you’re left paying a lot of money to another useless receiver. We can’t afford that.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Bangarang

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Bangarang said:

No he’s not. Renfrow’s cap hit next year is $13.7 mil. You’re praying that his lack of production is a result of McDaniels otherwise you left paying a lot of money to another useless receiver. We can’t afford that.

 

He's cuttable for like no cap hit in 2024, thats not the issue.  His base is 6.5M this year, so you would need to either send salary back or add a void year or something.  

 

I dunno, are kincaid shakir and harty really the problem?  Or is it scheme?  Or allen not looking their way?  

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don't think our personnel is the problem.  Sherfield was good on the Dolphins.  Harty gets open.  Davis (matter of opinion on here).  Dorsey doesn't know how to call plays for anyone besides Diggs.  

 

Unless we are playing the Dolphins, which Josh just owns, changing anything besides Dorsey isn't going to matter

Sherfield is not good. Has never been good. Are you his agent?

Edited October 16, 2023 by FireChans

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

No he’s not. Renfrow’s cap hit next year is $13.7 mil. You’re praying that his lack of production is a result of McDaniels otherwise you left paying a lot of money to another useless receiver. We can’t afford that.

His contract isn’t an issue unless you don’t believe he can play.

 

Its an contract to rework if you think he’ll be what Beasley was.

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

He's cuttable for like no cap hit in 2024, thats not the issue.  His base is 6.5M this year, so you would need to either send salary back or add a void year or something.  

 

I dunno, are kincaid shakir and harty really the problem?  Or is it scheme?  Or allen not looking their way?  

Even if you cut him next year with a post June 1st designation, it still carries a dead cap hit of nearly 2 mil.

 

 

[Bubba Gump]

Allen had 30 pass attempts last night. 16 went Diggs way. Not good. 

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

His contract isn’t an issue unless you don’t believe he can play.

 

Its an contract to rework if you think he’ll be what Beasley was.

It becomes an issue if he can’t play though. He’s really only had 1 really good year. His production has declined steeply since 2021. I don’t know if that’s a McDaniels thing or Renfrow thing. It’s a gamble that could end badly pretty easily.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Even if you cut him next year with a post June 1st designation, it still carries a dead cap hit of nearly 2 mil.

 

 

You’d trade for him with the idea he’s part of the future, not a rental.

Just now, Bangarang said:

It becomes an issue if he can’t play though. He’s really only had 1 really good year. His production has declined steeply since 2021. I don’t know if that’s a McDaniels thing or Renfrow thing. It’s a gamble that could end badly pretty easily.

It’s not that big of a gamble. 

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You’d trade for him with the idea he’s part of the future, not a rental.

He turns 28 this year. It’s reasonable to question just how much of a future he actually has given his age and production. 

[Beast]

The Bills can’t seem to incorporate the players they have now into their offense. What makes anyone think trading for a player would be the answer when this coaching staff has shown time and again to not be able to plug in and play skill players?

[In Summary]

12 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don't think our personnel is the problem.  Sherfield was good on the Dolphins.  Harty gets open.  Davis (matter of opinion on here).  Dorsey doesn't know how to call plays for anyone besides Diggs.  

 

Unless we are playing the Dolphins, which Josh just owns, changing anything besides Dorsey isn't going to matter

Would love to see a game (hypothetically) where Josh doesn't have Diggs and is limited to 25% shotgun. Would he and Dorsey evolve? I don't believe that the other receivers are that incompetent. The Diggs overreliance is a obvious tendency with accompanying forced passes. A couple of years ago it was a celebrated thing when Josh would throw to multiple receivers. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

The Bills can’t seem to incorporate the players they have now into their offense. What makes anyone think trading for a player would be the answer when this coaching staff has shown time and again to not be able to plug in and play skill players?

They’d have to move away from all the different players they’re using in the slot. Shakir, Harty, Sherfield, and Kincaid.

 

 Don’t use Kincaid and Knox at the same time, use Kincaid over Knox. 

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They’d have to move away from all the different players they’re using in the slot. Shakir, Harty, Sherfield, and Kincaid.

 

 Don’t use Kincaid and Knox at the same time, use Kincaid over Knox. 

I don’t disagree with your philosophy but it sure seems as if the brain trust for the Bills does.

 

And maybe Harty is the answer to begin with? It goes back to my statement of the Bills coaching staff and player usage. Harty has done nothing to show he is or isn’t the answer. And, IMO, that isn’t his fault.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Beast

[DrDawkinstein]

Another guy to not throw to? No thanks.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Even if you cut him next year with a post June 1st designation, it still carries a dead cap hit of nearly 2 mil.

 

 

 

I don't think so?  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/hunter-renfrow-29197/

 

All of his bonuses are money that is "already paid" out in some capacity (quotes because you don't actually get the check, but you guaranteed it and spread it over years).  2024 is a 11ish Million base salary you could cut with no guarantees.  And two bonuses that are tied to workouts (you cut him at start of league year so this would be out), and roster bonus tied to being active on gamedays.  

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I don't think so?  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/hunter-renfrow-29197/

 

All of his bonuses are money that is "already paid" out in some capacity (quotes because you don't actually get the check, but you guaranteed it and spread it over years).  2024 is a 11ish Million base salary you could cut with no guarantees.  And two bonuses that are tied to workouts (you cut him at start of league year so this would be out), and roster bonus tied to being active on gamedays.  

I typically use this site:

 

https://overthecap.com/player/hunter-renfrow/7940#:~:text=Contract Notes,salary for 2023 fully guaranteed.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I don't think so?  https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/hunter-renfrow-29197/

 

All of his bonuses are money that is "already paid" out in some capacity (quotes because you don't actually get the check, but you guaranteed it and spread it over years).  2024 is a 11ish Million base salary you could cut with no guarantees.  And two bonuses that are tied to workouts (you cut him at start of league year so this would be out), and roster bonus tied to being active on gamedays.  

Thanks for breaking it down.

 

I mean he’s just there for the taking.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[TheBrownBear]

Sure, bring him in and watch him catch 1.5 passes per game, while eating into Kincaid's 3 receptions/game, and then we can all go insane about Dorsey for a bit until we yet again convince ourselves that Renfrow is just another in a long line of offensive pieces that just isn't good enough.

[Motorin']

Adam Thielen would have been a great addition this off season. I think Jakobi Meyers would be really good in this offense too. 

 

That's what we're lacking, and hoping to have in Kincaid. A sure handed possession receiver to be Josh's security blanket to move the sticks...

 

Here's a what if ... Could have had Puka Nacua in the 5th instead of another blocking wr in Justin Shorter... Just saying... 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Motorin'

[Rc2catch]

Forget Renfrow and the price tag. 
If you’re trading for a receiver go rent Hollywood brown for half the season from Arizona. He can cut into Davis’s snaps, defenses have to double his speed on the outside because with Allen’s arm if you leave him 1 on 1 it’s gonna be a big play. It just makes perfect sense. Arizona didn’t extend him. He obviously wants to rack up stats for his upcoming free agency. And he won’t cost a ton to get. 
The only issue I see is Mcdermott dislikes playing anyone new to the team. But Hollywood is the guy I’d chase not Renfrow 

[Billever76]

59 minutes ago, JMM said:

It will be interested to hear from people after they view the All22. Seems hard to believe that other guys aren't getting open for Josh. Talent is upgraded this year. I tend to think it's a combo of Josh locked in on Diggs but also poor design from Dorsey. I'm getting THIS close to saying I'm done with him. 

Done with whom? If it's not dorsey then you are a clown 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Id LOVE to see what Isabella could do 

[JMM]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

Done with whom? If it's not dorsey then you are a clown 

1. Yes I meant Dorsey 

 

2. There is no reason to respond with an attitude.  None at all. Period. Do better.

[Billever76]

5 hours ago, JMM said:

1. Yes I meant Dorsey 

 

2. There is no reason to respond with an attitude.  None at all. Period. Do better.

Sorry I just see allot of fans bashing allen while defending dorsey

[Xwnyer]

8 hours ago, Virgil said:

I don't think our personnel is the problem.  Sherfield was good on the Dolphins.  Harty gets open.  Davis (matter of opinion on here).  Dorsey doesn't know how to call plays for anyone besides Diggs.  

 

Unless we are playing the Dolphins, which Josh just owns, changing anything besides Dorsey isn't going to matter

Maybe it’s time to make that change after last two games who would fault McD for doing it 

[FireChans]

7 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Another guy to not throw to? No thanks.

There’s 100% no point to adding weapons that Dorsey will certainly not use.

 

the only way I trade for a WR is if Dorsey promises he will see 20-30% of the targets of our offense or he’s fired.

[frostbitmic]

We have plenty of decoys without having to trade for another.

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

It's not the personnel. There's zero creativity in these plays with actual stupidity mixed in (shotgun from the 1 inch line). We need a new play caller

I'm officially done with Dorsey. He's no different this season than last. Terrible playcaller with little or no clever strategic plays.  It's like watching Hackett all over again. We need Josh to start calling his own plays like Kelly did.