All-22 analysis of Bills/Jags

[Solomon Grundy]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I mean it's a long season so I'm open to how it evolves

 

But even last year I felt that Knox can be used more as a vertical threat.. and right now Kincaid is being a steady check down option

 

But I feel he has so much potential down the seam which we aren't utilizing right now

 

Fitz use the torch the seams with Scott Chandler... Knox and Kincaid could be Killers down the middle

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

16 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The offense is good mostly because of Allen's greatness. His ability to make all the throws, scramble, and extend plays. 

 

The Bills offensive scheme is very vanilla, lacks creativity, motion, is rarely team specific, one play hardly ever sets up another play, and lacks proper gametime adjustments.

 

I feel like the Bills O just sticks with the general offensive plan. Kind of like this is what we do go ahead and try to stop it. They believe they can out execute the other teams D. This works super well against lesser opponents and even good opponents. Number 17 and 14 can carry a team often. 

 

I'm a bit disappointed with the outlook of the offense. I know numbers say otherwise. The Miami game was fantastic and can't be discounted. Dorsey was great too! I fear that might be more of an anomaly. I know others will chime in and give great input as to why my viewpoint is likely inaccurate. Please do because I want to be wrong. 

 

More specifically, I feel like the offense isn't explosive and lacks weapons. There's Diggs and really no one else. The 12 personnel is a joke. The use of Knox and Kincaid for 5 yard passes is anything but brilliant. Davis is scoring TDs and is decent. The drops are what they are. An upgrade is really needed but he's cheap and serviceable. The chemistry with Allen is indisputable. The rest of the WR core is subpar. Still no slot receiver. Still no screen passes. 

 

Another huge concern is the Bills WRs cannot create separation. This is why they are at the bottom of the league for YAC. Without YAC, the offense has to work way way way too hard to score. 

 

Allen is less of a weapon this year because he's not running much. After 5 games his legs have been under utilized. Maybe that's a good thing long term but it certainly makes the Bills O less dynamic. I get it's a balancing act between protecting Allen and winning games. The Jags game sure looked like Allen had a few lanes to get some good yardage. When Allen runs it sure seems to spark the offense. They needed a spark in Sunday. 

 

I was very impressed with the oline until the Jags game. Hopefully, that was just a London travel thing. As we know a good oline makes an offense much much more dangerous. 

 

Sorry for the rant. 

PREACH 

[Beck Water]

23 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Why can't we ***** tackle ever?!?! We have to be the worst tackling team in all of football.

 

We have been one of the best tackling teams in football this year.  Even after that terrible horrible no good very bad defensive day where our defensive players were dropping all over the field injured, we're still middle of the pack on missed tackles.  14/32 not worst.

 

Even more important, our top tackler has been our MLB Bernard, not one of our safeties or a CB - which is how it's supposed to be.

 

You think maybe losing one of our top tacklers in Milano early in the game, replacing him with a LB who struggled, and replacing our best 1TDT (Jones) with a 1TDT who has really struggled to tackle (Settle) maybe had an impact?

 

 

12 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I mean it's a long season so I'm open to how it evolves

 

But even last year I felt that Knox can be used more as a vertical threat.. and right now Kincaid is being a steady check down option

 

But I feel he has so much potential down the seam which we aren't utilizing right now

 

Fitz use the torch the seams with Scott Chandler... Knox and Kincaid could be Killers down the middle

 

Now that's fair I think. 

 

I'm not deep enough in the weeds to know details of how Carolina much less the Hurricaines used their TE, but I thought they used Olsen in the seam and as a vertical threat, A Lot.

 

7 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

 

Knox yes Kincaid no

Edited October 11, 2023 by Beck Water

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

Almost every other play Knox is helping 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

21 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

We have been one of the best tackling teams in football this year.  Even after that terrible horrible no good very bad defensive day where our defensive players were dropping all over the field injured, we're still middle of the pack on missed tackles.  14/32 not worst.

 

Even more important, our top tackler has been our MLB Bernard, not one of our safeties or a CB - which is how it's supposed to be.

 

You think maybe losing one of our top tacklers in Milano early in the game, replacing him with a LB who struggled, and replacing our best 1TDT (Jones) with a 1TDT who has really struggled to tackle (Settle) maybe had an impact?

 

 

 

Now that's fair I think. 

 

I'm not deep enough in the weeds to know details of how Carolina much less the Hurricaines used their TE, but I thought they used Olsen in the seam and as a vertical threat, A Lot.

 

 

Knox yes Kincaid no

I would have to do a deep dive ... but there is a lot of talent at that position.. more than we have had in a long time 

 

The offense should just be scratching it's potential 

[newcam2012]

47 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

That's 12 personnel?

 

Did the Bills really trade up to use their 1st round pick on Kincaid as a blocker? Or to throw him 5 yard dump offs? 

 

Are they paying Knox big money to be a primary blocker? Or to throw him 5 yard dump offs? 

 

I mean they had a whole off season, training camp, and a pre season to get it right. 

 

This 12 personnel set by the Bills isn't anything like I envisioned. Am I missing something? What went wrong or right?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by newcam2012

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:22 PM, HappyDays said:

 

Joe Marino does these all-22 review podcasts every week. Mostly he broke down what happened with the offense in this one. Some highlights:

 

-He said the run game failures were mostly a case of running the ball against bad looks. A lot of times the Jaguars had 8 or even 9 men in the box and we chose to run it anyways. The 2nd and 1 pitch to Cook that we lost like 5 yards on, he said we had 2 OL blocking 3 defenders on that side. Unsurprisingly the unblocked defender made an easy tackle for a loss. I don't know if Allen is supposed to audible out of those looks or what, but Dorsey or Allen have to a better job of punishing defenses for heavy boxes.

 

-As far as the passing game, Joe said that Allen played terrific and really wasn't to blame at all for any of our passing struggles. He said there have been times in the past where he's seen Allen turn down easy completions, but in this game he was executing his reads the way they were designed and manipulating the pocket well.

 

-He blames several of our stalled drives on skill players. Cook dropping a pass on the first drive, Knox dropping a pass on a 3rd down, Davis dropping a pass on a 2nd down, all of these he says the pass catcher definitely should have come down with them. He also blames Diggs for the interception after watching a few replays. He says the ball was a tad underthrown but it went 70 yards in the air and Diggs gets both hands on it - that's a situation where he says Diggs simply has to win the catch. He says one run should have gone for 8+ yards, but Cook totally misread the leverage and ran away from his blockers outside for a 0 yard gain.

 

-The Jags did a good job using simulated pressures to get advantages on their pass rush opportunities. All our struggles aside, give their defense credit for confusing us and keeping us off balance.

 

-He says more play action passes wouldn't have worked with the way the Jaguars were loading the box and showing heavy pressure looks. I've seen a lot of people criticize Dorsey for a low play action percentage in this game so I thought that was an interesting point.

 

-An alarming statistic he points out - the Jags missed just 3 tackles in this game. We missed 19 tackles... What else can you even say?

 

-Another alarming statistic - only 22% of our receiving yards in this game were YAC, by far the worst in the league for week 5. For context, Joe points out the 2nd lowest was the Ravens at 33%, and most offenses are in the 45%-50% or higher range. The Dolphins were at 78%. Our YAC issues from last year popped up big time in this game and it killed us. No run game and no YAC means literally our entire offense was dependent on Josh Allen's right arm, and that just isn't sustainable.

 

-A few points on defense - He says Elam wasn't quite as bad as he thought watching it live, but he definitely has some technical issues to clean up. Joe thinks the issues are fixable but he isn't at the level of Jackson or Benford right now. Dorian Williams had issues on misdirection plays and missed a couple tackles before McDermott benched him.

 

For a video breakdown of the offensive struggles, Cover1 just put this video out:

 

 

I think the play shown at 5:53 summarizes our issues in this game better than anything. You have 4 pass catchers all end up in the same area of the field so the timing of the play is awful and Allen has nowhere to go with the ball. He extends the play and throws a perfect pass to Knox who then drops it.

 

Way too many missed opportunities in this game. Pass protection, run blocking, situational play calling, skill position players, none of it was good enough.

 

So Diggs open twice deep, under-thrown twice neither resulted in scores, both should be TDs. That the game right there. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So Diggs open twice deep, under-thrown twice neither resulted in scores, both should be TDs. That the game right there. 

What part of this don't you understand?

 

"He also blames Diggs for the interception after watching a few replays. He says the ball was a tad underthrown but it went 70 yards in the air and Diggs gets both hands on it - that's a situation where he says Diggs simply has to win the catch."

 

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

30 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What part of this don't you understand?

 

"He also blames Diggs for the interception after watching a few replays. He says the ball was a tad underthrown but it went 70 yards in the air and Diggs gets both hands on it - that's a situation where he says Diggs simply has to win the catch."

 

 

 

 

 

That’s Joe, watch cover 1 video. Diggs had 5-10 yards separation twice with nothing over the top. A better throw in either case and it’s a 27-25 win. Pretty simple 

 

josh about to throw, clean pocket, Diggs has trailer beat by 4-5 yards, no safety. 
 

this is the throw he’s paid $250 million to make a TD throw. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

We need an overhaul of the entire approach on offense, from the roster allocation strategy to the coaching.  I am convinced.

 

This is what I am getting at.  There is just something wrong with this offense.  I don't every remember seeing something like this and it has been happening since Dorsey took over.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Maybe

 

But I'm pretty sure I could comb thru a Chiefs or Lions game and find a similarly poorly spaced play design here or there

 

My position on the offense remains they're doing the best they can wrt personnel

 

Just a guess

 

Id like to see you pull up a play where the Chiefs had 4 receivers running on top of each other like this. 

 

I also wonder when I keep hearing... "that guys open and Josh didn't throw it yadda yadda" stuff, if the receiver is even in the right spot.  I'm beginning to believe they aren't.  How do you trust anything with this offense?

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What part of this don't you understand?

 

"He also blames Diggs for the interception after watching a few replays. He says the ball was a tad underthrown but it went 70 yards in the air and Diggs gets both hands on it - that's a situation where he says Diggs simply has to win the catch."

 

 

 

 

 

When I saw it live I was surprised Diggs didn't come up with the ball. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

Everyone complaining about Kincaid running short routes needs to read this lol if you’re just sending tight ends down the seam brown is gonna go full turnstile and nobody will be getting the ball 😂

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

That's 12 personnel?

 

Did the Bills really trade up to use their 1st round pick on Kincaid as a blocker? Or to throw him 5 yard dump offs? 

 

Are they paying Knox big money to be a primary blocker? Or to throw him 5 yard dump offs? 

 

I mean they had a whole off season, training camp, and a pre season to get it right. 

 

This 12 personnel set by the Bills isn't anything like I envisioned. Am I missing something? What went wrong or right?

 

 

 

 

A lot of it is opponents…even the bad teams we’ve played have had a monster or two or three on the defensive line.  Leaving brown one on one with like maxx Crosby just to please the people lurking on the message board looking for a ton of receiving yards out of Kincaid wouldve been ridiculous 😂

 

Vs the jags we got absolutely mauled in the trenches and both our tackles needed a ton of help 

 

I’d let the season play out a little longer…I think people are comparing the offense to Miami’s who will have played probably 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the league and the chargers on top of that who are probably the second worst defense in the league 

 

we’re likely going to light up all those teams too(except for the panthers who we don’t play)

Edited October 11, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So Diggs open twice deep, under-thrown twice neither resulted in scores, both should be TDs. That the game right there. 

I was there. Unbelievable that it wasn’t a touchdown. He was WIDE open and had to slow down to catch the ball. Nobody gets that open in an NFL game. Josh absolutely needs to hit him in stride. Not sure why people feel it’s sacrilegious to criticize Josh Allen. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was there. Unbelievable that it wasn’t a touchdown. He was WIDE open and had to slow down to catch the ball. Nobody gets that open in an NFL game. Josh absolutely needs to hit him in stride. Not sure why people feel it’s sacrilegious to criticize Josh Allen. 

In the context of a game where dudes were dropping wide open passes and the offensive line was getting flagged all day, it’s pretty hard to criticize a qb for throwing a 50-60 yard rope and hitting his guy after having to reset in the pocket.

 

 People makin it sound like he could just step into that one from a clean pocket but that is not at all what happened lol

 

had to drop back right into his own end zone and throw that one over a linebacker jumping right in his face which prevented him from fully stepping into it.  Certainly wasn’t a perfect throw but it was a great one.  He threw that ball nearly 60 yards virtually flat footed.  Watch that short stride he has to take in the replay I’m not even sure he could’ve physically thrown it any farther like that.  It looked like he was loading up to throw an absolute bomb and the time ran out on it to me 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[newcam2012]

28 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

A lot of it is opponents…even the bad teams we’ve played have had a monster or two or three on the defensive line.  Leaving brown one on one with like maxx Crosby just to please the people lurking on the message board looking for a ton of receiving yards out of Kincaid wouldve been ridiculous 😂

 

Vs the jags we got absolutely mauled in the trenches and both our tackles needed a ton of help 

 

I’d let the season play out a little longer…I think people are comparing the offense to Miami’s who will have played probably 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the league and the chargers on top of that who are probably the second worst defense in the league 

 

we’re likely going to light up all those teams too(except for the panthers who we don’t play)

It's not like the Bills opponents have been juggernauts. Jets D is the only good D they have faced. Jags are middling, Wash appears bad, Raiders stink, and Miami's isn't good with no Ramsey and Philips. 

 

At some point, if the have to constantly protect Brown with a TE then the 12 personnel really isn't all that dynamic from a passing point of view. It really doesn't stress a defense like it's supposed to. 

[SoCal Deek]

53 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

In the context of a game where dudes were dropping wide open passes and the offensive line was getting flagged all day, it’s pretty hard to criticize a qb for throwing a 50-60 yard rope and hitting his guy after having to reset in the pocket.

 

 People makin it sound like he could just step into that one from a clean pocket but that is not at all what happened lol

 

had to drop back right into his own end zone and throw that one over a linebacker jumping right in his face which prevented him from fully stepping into it.  Certainly wasn’t a perfect throw but it was a great one.  He threw that ball nearly 60 yards virtually flat footed.  Watch that short stride he has to take in the replay I’m not even sure he could’ve physically thrown it any farther like that.  It looked like he was loading up to throw an absolute bomb and the time ran out on it to me 

Sure! That sounds about right. I’m sure it is. It has to be. 

[thenorthremembers]

13 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes, Josh is at fault sometimes, receiver is at fault sometimes, the route design is also at fault sometimes. There is no singular blame.

I can get on board with this.  Especially adding in the play design portion.

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was there. Unbelievable that it wasn’t a touchdown. He was WIDE open and had to slow down to catch the ball. Nobody gets that open in an NFL game. Josh absolutely needs to hit him in stride. Not sure why people feel it’s sacrilegious to criticize Josh Allen. 

No one is saying it's sacrilegious to criticize Allen.  When you throw that out you lose all credibility in my eyes.  It reduces you to being a troll.

 

BTW, WR's break wide open deep all the time but for a variety of reasons are seldom even the recipients of a completed let alone hit in stride for a TD.  On that play a PERFECT pass is a TD.  A GREAT pass results in a 50 yard completion.  Allen made a  great pass.  Period end of story.  I wish he had made the perfect pass there but he didn't. So what.

 

 

[finn]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

At some point, if the have to constantly protect Brown with a TE then the 12 personnel really isn't all that dynamic from a passing point of view. It really doesn't stress a defense like it's supposed to. 

You got to wonder if Anderson, the backup, is actually worse than Brown. Brown's problems with pass-pro appear to be holding back the entire offense. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

It's not like the Bills opponents have been juggernauts. Jets D is the only good D they have faced. Jags are middling, Wash appears bad, Raiders stink, and Miami's isn't good with no Ramsey and Philips. 

 

At some point, if the have to constantly protect Brown with a TE then the 12 personnel really isn't all that dynamic from a passing point of view. It really doesn't stress a defense like it's supposed to. 

I think you misunderstand…I did not say their defenses overall were juggernauts.  They have been loaded with quality pass rushers though.  And if a defenses strength is pass rushers and not much else, you’d be crazy not to chip with TEs it just doesn’t make sense not to do that.  You shorten one route to buy your qb time to expose a ton of problems in the secondary.

 

idk how they’ll finish but the jags played a pretty much perfect defensive game on Sunday. I think they’re more than likely top 10 in defensive DVOA.  

 

I guess that final point depends on how you look at it. 12 personnel gives them an unparalleled way to give their RT help in a tough matchup imo, but if you’re only looking for passing yards for some reason and not wins then that changes the equation.  There are teams like kc where the big time pass rusher plays inside where our more competent players are and I think you’ll see more of the routes out of the TEs that you’re looking for.  
 

this board is pretty funny with everyone banging the drum on three separate issues which have a single solution to fix all of them but people still complain when we do the thing that fixes all of them 🤣. People have been calling for a reliable Beasley-esque slot guy that can catch the tough underneath throws in traffic, help for Spencer brown, and a weapon that takes some attention away from diggs and Kincaid has proven capable of doing all of those things so far 

 

despite the jags defense having a whale of a game and all the injuries and the scheduling etc we were a few execution issues away from winning comfortably.  
 

it gets so frustrating in here after a loss 😂. Dorsey getting blamed because what he was doing wasn’t ‘clever’ it didn’t have to be clever it just had to be properly executed and it wasn’t.   Peoples answer to drives blowing up because players are dropping wide open passes in the middle of the field and the oline getting blown up is to make the offense more complicated and send our tight ends out on deeper, longer developing routes? Just doesn’t make sense to me 

simultaneously saying oh sugar high josh is back trying to do too much and will lose the game then turning it around and criticizing him for taking checkdowns when the pocket is collapsing doesn’t make sense to me 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[78thealltimegreat]

11 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So Diggs open twice deep, under-thrown twice neither resulted in scores, both should be TDs. That the game right there. 

Not really one teams leading rusher had 126 yards the other teams had 23 and it was their quarterback wanna guess which team was which? 

[BillsVet]

14 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

We need an overhaul of the entire approach on offense, from the roster allocation strategy to the coaching.  I am convinced.

 

Absolutely.  I had expectations this would have improved when Josh demonstrated he could be a franchise QB, but little has changed.    

 

This season it seems the offensive improvement was based on better backs, a rookie TE, and flyers on 2 cheap UFA receivers.  Not going to get it done for a team with SB aspirations.  And this happened in the wake of 2 disappointing playoff exits against teams with better offenses.  

 

Maybe they swing a deal for a top WR and move Davis to WR3.  But given the HC's pedigree, I don't see it happening.    

[VaMilBill]

6 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Absolutely.  I had expectations this would have improved when Josh demonstrated he could be a franchise QB, but little has changed.    

 

This season it seems the offensive improvement was based on better backs, a rookie TE, and flyers on 2 cheap UFA receivers.  Not going to get it done for a team with SB aspirations.  And this happened in the wake of 2 disappointing playoff exits against teams with better offenses.  

 

Maybe they swing a deal for a top WR and move Davis to WR3.  But given the HC's pedigree, I don't see it happening.    

I just don’t see our offense “figuring it out.”  I think we will have some monster games on offense then have some stinkers against good defenses. But in the end, i think the offense will be underwhelming when it matters which should at the very least result in Ken Dorsey being relieved. 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Absolutely.  I had expectations this would have improved when Josh demonstrated he could be a franchise QB, but little has changed.    

 

This season it seems the offensive improvement was based on better backs, a rookie TE, and flyers on 2 cheap UFA receivers.  Not going to get it done for a team with SB aspirations.  And this happened in the wake of 2 disappointing playoff exits against teams with better offenses.  

 

Maybe they swing a deal for a top WR and move Davis to WR3.  But given the HC's pedigree, I don't see it happening.    

 

It was based mainly on an upgraded offensive line. They didn't look that upgraded this past week, but I put that down to poor schedule planning and the jetlag. I'll get worried about the OL if we start to see repeats of last week. 

[Beck Water]

13 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So Diggs open twice deep, under-thrown twice neither resulted in scores, both should be TDs. That the game right there. 

 

You do understand that part of making a deep reception, is to track the ball in the air and adjust?

1 hour ago, finn said:

You got to wonder if Anderson, the backup, is actually worse than Brown. Brown's problems with pass-pro appear to be holding back the entire offense. 

 

?

 

Last I looked, Anderson was backing up G and getting looks as 3rd string C.  Germain Ifredi is the backup RT.

[Beck Water]

47 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I just don’t see our offense “figuring it out.”  I think we will have some monster games on offense then have some stinkers against good defenses. But in the end, i think the offense will be underwhelming when it matters which should at the very least result in Ken Dorsey being relieved. 

 

So let me get this straight.

 

Jets game: Offense stinks, don't see them figuring it out

Raiders: oh, well, that was the Raiders

Commanders: pushovers, good DL means nothing

Miami before the game: Doomed! 

Miami after the game: Amazing!  Unstoppable!

Jags: Offense stinks, don't see them figuring it out.

[DuckyBoys]

Execution was not there clearly  The sleepwalked the first half    Its not too much though to expect some semblance of a rushing attack and a few plays schemed up to have wide open easy throws.   Not every play should look so danged hard  

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was based mainly on an upgraded offensive line. They didn't look that upgraded this past week, but I put that down to poor schedule planning and the jetlag. I'll get worried about the OL if we start to see repeats of last week. 

 

Sure, OL needed improving, but skill players - WR and TE - is where it's at in this era of offensive football.  Their WR UFA acquisitions are living up to low expectations and Kincaid being a rookie is just that.  I expect he'll improve but you don't bank on rookies as a SB type team.  

 

Problem is that Buffalo tends to like their players too much.  I get they need to show that to an extent, but there isn't enough pushing guys with competition.  That is especially the case at the tackles, where Dawkins' conditioning issues are well-known as is Brown's performance (perhaps injury related) needed something. 

 

I just see the team getting soft at times.  And for all of McD's competitiveness, the team follows its HC's example.    

 

 

[GoBills808]

58 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

So let me get this straight.

 

Jets game: Offense stinks, don't see them figuring it out

Raiders: oh, well, that was the Raiders

Commanders: pushovers, good DL means nothing

Miami before the game: Doomed! 

Miami after the game: Amazing!  Unstoppable!

Jags: Offense stinks, don't see them figuring it out.

Offense remains elite

 

3rd in the league across the board in points, yards/play, net passing YPA

 

7th in first downs

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Not really one teams leading rusher had 126 yards the other teams had 23 and it was their quarterback wanna guess which team was which? 

There were plenty of other issues too, I’m just pointing out a better throw to Diggs on one of those two plays and it’s a Bills win, given how wiiiiide open he was despite the litany of other issues. It’s not easy, but that’s a moment for an elite game changing throw. 
 

oh well. 

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

You do understand that part of making a deep reception, is to track the ball in the air and adjust?

yeah Diggs might have been better on the int ball, by coming back to the ball harder. If Josh leads it more to the right maybe Diggs gets to it while maintaining separation. 
 

the long completion he had to come back and high point it as opposed to running under it. 
 

missed opportunities both.

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think you misunderstand…I did not say their defenses overall were juggernauts.  They have been loaded with quality pass rushers though.  And if a defenses strength is pass rushers and not much else, you’d be crazy not to chip with TEs it just doesn’t make sense not to do that.  You shorten one route to buy your qb time to expose a ton of problems in the secondary.

 

idk how they’ll finish but the jags played a pretty much perfect defensive game on Sunday. I think they’re more than likely top 10 in defensive DVOA.  

 

I guess that final point depends on how you look at it. 12 personnel gives them an unparalleled way to give their RT help in a tough matchup imo, but if you’re only looking for passing yards for some reason and not wins then that changes the equation.  There are teams like kc where the big time pass rusher plays inside where our more competent players are and I think you’ll see more of the routes out of the TEs that you’re looking for.  
 

this board is pretty funny with everyone banging the drum on three separate issues which have a single solution to fix all of them but people still complain when we do the thing that fixes all of them 🤣. People have been calling for a reliable Beasley-esque slot guy that can catch the tough underneath throws in traffic, help for Spencer brown, and a weapon that takes some attention away from diggs and Kincaid has proven capable of doing all of those things so far 

 

despite the jags defense having a whale of a game and all the injuries and the scheduling etc we were a few execution issues away from winning comfortably.  
 

it gets so frustrating in here after a loss 😂. Dorsey getting blamed because what he was doing wasn’t ‘clever’ it didn’t have to be clever it just had to be properly executed and it wasn’t.   Peoples answer to drives blowing up because players are dropping wide open passes in the middle of the field and the oline getting blown up is to make the offense more complicated and send our tight ends out on deeper, longer developing routes? Just doesn’t make sense to me 

simultaneously saying oh sugar high josh is back trying to do too much and will lose the game then turning it around and criticizing him for taking checkdowns when the pocket is collapsing doesn’t make sense to me 

 

I have so much to say about this post. It definitely sparked my attention. Not a bad thing. 

 

First off, the criticism of the Bills performance is warranted. Clearly, that is something that doesn't sit well with you. 

 

More specifically, lots of teams have very good to elite pass rushers. Using a TE to chip every game is probably more the norm I suppose because do you think Brown will hold up? Did Beane sell the fan base this kind of 12 personnel? Is it what you envisioned? Come on now let's be honest here. Might as well have Edwards lined up all the time as the 2nd TE. He's the best blocker to aid Brown. Maybe the Bills should have upgraded that position like 2 years ago...

 

The Bills do need a solid reliable slot guy! Don't you agree? If not, who is that guy on the team? I can't find him. 

 

The offense besides Diggs isn't reliable. The drops and lack of others stepping up in the Jags game amplified that. Even a good Allen couldn't produce a win. 

 

Allen wasn't the problem vs the Jags. He missed some opportunities that I wish he would have made. Allen in all he was good but not good enough. I wish he would have took more control of the game with his legs. There were a few chances where he could have produced. I may be guilty of being too critical and expecting too much from Josh. 

 

Allen the criticisms you discussed are valid and should be discussed here. Funny how you say it's funny. Almost like fans shouldn't be talking about them. Almost like it's not valid. Hummmm

 

The Bills were never ever close to winning that Jags game comfortable. They were never a play or two from blowing the game open. That's the most absurd thing I've read here in a long long time. Seriously, what game were you watching? Talk about being bias. 

 

On to the Giants a get right game hopefully. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was based mainly on an upgraded offensive line. They didn't look that upgraded this past week, but I put that down to poor schedule planning and the jetlag. I'll get worried about the OL if we start to see repeats of last week. 

Completely agreed…I’m surprised more people don’t see it this way.  Brown will likely need some help against good dlines but I wouldn’t expect Dawkins to get bulldozed in the vast majority of games.  
 

this game was the perfect storm of bad offensive line play, key drops, a ridiculously good defensive play by the jaguars,a rash of injuries on the defensive side for the bills maybe some of which was exacerbated by the scheduling.  Either way I wouldn’t really expect those things to occur on a week to week basis 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Absolutely.  I had expectations this would have improved when Josh demonstrated he could be a franchise QB, but little has changed.    

 

This season it seems the offensive improvement was based on better backs, a rookie TE, and flyers on 2 cheap UFA receivers.  Not going to get it done for a team with SB aspirations.  And this happened in the wake of 2 disappointing playoff exits against teams with better offenses.  

 

Maybe they swing a deal for a top WR and move Davis to WR3.  But given the HC's pedigree, I don't see it happening.    

Great post. Every year most fans pump up our expectations of the team. Generally, pump up the draft choices and acquisitions. Pump up how the current guys on the roster will step up. Thus far, Bernard is the star of the show. To a lesser extent Torrence. Everyone else not so much . Been very disappointing on the offensive side of the ball. Cook is not an every down back. He's ok but nothing special. Kincaid not being used properly. Harty, Sherwood, and Shakir are after thoughts. 

 

Coaching and schemes are suspect. 

 

I'm sorry I don't see a SB team here. Its a very good team and if all the stats align it's possible. I hold onto that fantasy. The dream lives on only to be disturbed when I wake up. Reality check sometimes isn't welcomed. 

 

Truthfully, I wish the Bills would tear it down and bring in a whole new regime. New GM, new coaches, new players, new systems. I know that probably irrational but the status quo isn't getting it done. More wasted opportunities are on the horizon. 

[90sBills]

11 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was there. Unbelievable that it wasn’t a touchdown. He was WIDE open and had to slow down to catch the ball. Nobody gets that open in an NFL game. Josh absolutely needs to hit him in stride. Not sure why people feel it’s sacrilegious to criticize Josh Allen. 

It looked that way on TV as well. Diggs had to slow down because the ball was under thrown. He did all he could to try and catch that ball. Yet people still say Allen threw a great pass and blamed Diggs for the int. Unbelievable. Making plays like that win close tough games. Opportunities are few in tough games so they need to be capitalized. 

 

When Allen’s bad throws get pointed out in posts like this certain fans just can’t accept it. I really don’t get it. He’s a great qb. But he makes mistakes too. It’s ok to call it out. 

[Logic]

Sometimes the coaches get outcoached.

Sometimes the players get outplayed.

We can spend all week looking for deeper meaning -- were the playcallers too slow to adjust? Were the receivers or the protection more to blame? Was it injuries? International body clock? -- but at the end of the day, the other guys get paid, too.

The Bills have a good offensive coordinator and a cast of offensive players that are highly productive most weeks. The coordinator was out-coordinated and the players played poorly. Blame it on whatever you want. It happens sometimes.

I'm not taking it as a season-long indictment on anyone or trying to overreact or paint the picture bigger and with more colors than it deserves. It was a bad week. The Bills got outplayed and outcoached and lost.

On to the Giants.

[WideNine]

23 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

Josh had a PFF grade of 91.5 and a QBR of 86.7 vs. the Jags. He was not the problem Sunday.

 

Folks keep forgetting that while the Jags defense was pitching some 3 and outs our defense could not get off the field and allowed a lot of conversions that moved the chains and produced long Jaguar drives. 

There were reasons for that too starting with losing so many defensive starters so quickly in the game.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I have so much to say about this post. It definitely sparked my attention. Not a bad thing. 

 

First off, the criticism of the Bills performance is warranted. Clearly, that is something that doesn't sit well with you. 

 

More specifically, lots of teams have very good to elite pass rushers. Using a TE to chip every game is probably more the norm I suppose because do you think Brown will hold up? Did Beane sell the fan base this kind of 12 personnel? Is it what you envisioned? Come on now let's be honest here. Might as well have Edwards lined up all the time as the 2nd TE. He's the best blocker to aid Brown. Maybe the Bills should have upgraded that position like 2 years ago...

 

The Bills do need a solid reliable slot guy! Don't you agree? If not, who is that guy on the team? I can't find him. 

 

The offense besides Diggs isn't reliable. The drops and lack of others stepping up in the Jags game amplified that. Even a good Allen couldn't produce a win. 

 

Allen wasn't the problem vs the Jags. He missed some opportunities that I wish he would have made. Allen in all he was good but not good enough. I wish he would have took more control of the game with his legs. There were a few chances where he could have produced. I may be guilty of being too critical and expecting too much from Josh. 

 

Allen the criticisms you discussed are valid and should be discussed here. Funny how you say it's funny. Almost like fans shouldn't be talking about them. Almost like it's not valid. Hummmm

 

The Bills were never ever close to winning that Jags game comfortable. They were never a play or two from blowing the game open. That's the most absurd thing I've read here in a long long time. Seriously, what game were you watching? Talk about being bias. 

 

On to the Giants a get right game hopefully. 

Oh there’s tons of criticism warranted haha they did not play well and I absolutely agree that the receivers past diggs were an issue.

the offensive line which has been solid all season got steamrolled in this one also.  

 

I think Kincaid will be a very reliable slot option if he gets the opportunity but he and Knox are busy chipping for Spencer brown who needs a lot of help when he draws a tougher offensive line matchup. Then everyone criticizes the usage of Knox/Kincaid a little bit unjustly imo.  
 

by comfortably I meant a one score win that didn’t really feel like was in a lot of danger of getting away from us…I’m not trying to say we would’ve blown them out which seems like is what you took out of the sentence which is fair based on the wording but not really what I meant. 
 

Criticism in general is welcomed and certainly warranted after that game I just respectfully disagree with a lot of the directions the criticisms have gone.  They feel really hindsight-y and cherry picked at times especially when people try to evaluate offensive playcalling. Like obviously if you know your team is going to drop every single wide open third down pass before it happens you’d know you had to start attacking deeper downfield on earlier downs just as one example.  I’m sure Dorsey was losing his mind in the booth watching that go down 😂. 
 

and then things like ‘Knox and Kincaid should be running deeper routes and not chipping’…that’s easy to say now because we lost but there’s a good chance if we tried that in the game things would’ve gone even worse with how much stress the offensive line was already under. 

The defense is kind of getting a free pass also based on the circumstances which I completely understand, but the offense had bad field position all game long because the jaguars were converting a lot of third downs and driving the ball downfield without a lot of resistance 

Poor offensive line, bad field position, stone hands on third down, diggs getting a ball wrestled out of his hands, defensive injuries all played a part in that loss and I just think we’re exaggerating the state of the team based on the results of this one game.  Milano and jones may be done for the year but a lot of the defensive players we lost will certainly be returning 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Sometimes the coaches get outcoached.

Sometimes the players get outplayed.

We can spend all week looking for deeper meaning -- were the playcallers too slow to adjust? Were the receivers or the protection more to blame? Was it injuries? International body clock? -- but at the end of the day, the other guys get paid, too.

The Bills have a good offensive coordinator and a cast of offensive players that are highly productive most weeks. The coordinator was out-coordinated and the players played poorly. Blame it on whatever you want. It happens sometimes.

I'm not taking it as a season-long indictment on anyone or trying to overreact or paint the picture bigger and with more colors than it deserves. It was a bad week. The Bills got outplayed and outcoached and lost.

On to the Giants.

 

...and don't forget the crappy scheduling logistics that tilted the field in favor of the Jags rested and acclimated in the UK while our Bills were working off jet lag crossing the pond just days prior.

 

Pray for the best for our injured starters and put that game in the rear view where it belongs.