The Quarterback Push Play and Josh Allen

[Sierra Foothills]

As an avid reader of ProFootballTalk (SILENCE!), I ran across this blog post:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nick-sirianni-on-qb-push-play-there-is-not-a-rule-against-it-so-thats-what-we-do

 

“Not everyone has [center] Jason Kelce, [guard] Landon Dickerson, [offensive lineman] Cam Jurgens,” Sirianni said. “Not everybody has [tackle] Jordan Mailata. Not everybody has [tackle] Lane Johnson on the other side. Not everybody has that type of quarterback.

“We noticed that last year when people were making maybe some big deals about it. There are a lot that are unsuccessful. You guys know who the teams were that were, and I don’t know exactly the teams that were successful and the teams that weren’t successful.

“But there is clearly a talent to it that our guys have, because it’s not as -- maybe it’s automatic right now for the Philadelphia Eagles, but it’s not automatic around the NFL . . . You hear it and you’re like, well, I get that some people are complaining about it, but stop it. Stop the play. It’s not as automatic as people think as we’re seeing across the NFL. . . ."

 

The Bills have used a slightly watered-down version of this play, with one pusher instead of two. Obviously Josh is a big, strong, QB and with our upgraded guards this might become more a part of the Bills MO.

 

 

[Rubes]

We totally use this play, and it works well. Probably because Josh is big and strong and good at it, but the push with Josh running is like a cheat code.

 

Not sure why they think the Eagles are the only ones using it or good at it...

 

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, Rubes said:

We totally use this play, and it works well. Probably because Josh is big and strong and good at it, but the push with Josh running is like a cheat code.

 

Not sure why they think the Eagles are the only ones using it or good at it...

 

IIRC I think when we first started doing it we ran a guy in motion and snapped the ball on time when he got behind Josh to push. 

[Rubes]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

IIRC I think when we first started doing it we ran a guy in motion and snapped the ball on time when he got behind Josh to push. 

 

We still do that to some extent, with Gabe often being the one in motion and then providing the push. Sometimes others as well.

 

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, Rubes said:

We totally use this play, and it works well. Probably because Josh is big and strong and good at it, but the push with Josh running is like a cheat code.

 

Not sure why they think the Eagles are the only ones using it or good at it...

 

Don't think the article said the eagles were the only ones running it or good at it

 

Sirianni said it's not as automatic as you think and there's teams around the league that don't do well

 

They do it well because they have talent up front

[MJS]

What are people complaining about? They are mad that they can't stop it?

 

They were mad about the hurry up offense when that first started, and the forward pass.

 

The game is supposed to evolve.

[Special K]

It is usually Davis as the pusher, but in last weeks game, I believe it was Gilliam on more than one occasion as the pusher.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

I've never heard anyone be mad at this play. It's a pretty normal football play.

[Rubes]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Don't think the article said the eagles were the only ones running it or good at it

 

Sirianni said it's not as automatic as you think and there's teams around the league that don't do well

 

They do it well because they have talent up front

 

I was just responding to the last sentence in the article: "The reality is that, if the Eagles continue to be the only team that has perfected the play, it eventually will be pushed right out of the rulebook."

 

I mean, I don't know if I'd say either team has "perfected" the play, but certainly the Eagles aren't the only team that's consistently good at it.

 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Rubes said:

We totally use this play, and it works well. Probably because Josh is big and strong and good at it, but the push with Josh running is like a cheat code.

 

Not sure why they think the Eagles are the only ones using it or good at it...

 

 

We do a QB push play, but it seems like a different variation to me.  We have the OL (it seems to me) trying to keep the DL down, while Josh goes over the top with Gabe pushing him.

 

And we've been stopped on it a couple times.  I didn't notice us doing it as much last season.

 

The Eagles OL, on the other hand, goes low and Hurts follows them low.  They can do this because they have road graders on OL and it makes it harder to stop it seems.

 

I could be wrong, just my impression.

[JerseyBills]

They started last year with Gabe , i believe.  I thought before Philly. Don't recall a team stopping it. 

 

Last week they used it out of I formation with Gilliam pushing as well 

[Brand J]

Jalen Hurts also squats north of 600 pounds. I’m sure that helps too. 

[Freddie's Dead]

 

[Sierra Foothills]

Following up on this topic, 2 significant developments in the "QB Push Play" popularized by the Eagles:

1. Justin Herbert and the Chargers attempted it today and failed... in a crucial late-game situation.
2. The Bills executed what might have been the first-ever "Reverse QB Push Play." 

Josh handed the ball to James Cook and then followed him into the line of scrimmage. Cook was initially stonewalled and it was clearly Josh's push which made the difference. Nance/Romo commented on the play and mused that this might be the first time ever and that it could cause a copy cat trend.

 

I have misgivings about the QB Push Play because no matter how low the QB gets, there's always a chance that a defensive player will take a cheap shot at the QB. With a player like Josh Allen, I'm uneasy about taking that risk.

 

I could see a further development in the Reverse QB Push Play where Latavius Murray or one of the RBs shifts under center into the Wildcat spot and Josh pushes him in... it's the next logical step.

 

[AuntieEm]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:50 PM, HOUSE said:

This would be a great play for Miami

Just push Tua head first into the defense 

Nah I don't even like them doing it with Josh.  A defender running to the line could go helmet c to helmet with Josh inadvertently causing one or both of them to be injured  maybe suffer a bad concussion.  I don't want to risk Josh's thinking process now he seems to look for the smart plays.

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Warcodered]

14 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

Following up on this topic, 2 significant developments in the "QB Push Play" popularized by the Eagles:

1. Justin Herbert and the Chargers attempted it today and failed... in a crucial late-game situation.
2. The Bills executed what might have been the first-ever "Reverse QB Push Play." 

Josh handed the ball to James Cook and then followed him into the line of scrimmage. Cook was initially stonewalled and it was clearly Josh's push which made the difference. Nance/Romo commented on the play and mused that this might be the first time ever and that it could cause a copy cat trend.

 

I have misgivings about the QB Push Play because no matter how low the QB gets, there's always a chance that a defensive player will take a cheap shot at the QB. With a player like Josh Allen, I'm uneasy about taking that risk.

 

I could see a further development in the Reverse QB Push Play where Latavius Murray or one of the RBs shifts under center into the Wildcat spot and Josh pushes him in... it's the next logical step.

 

Of course the Chargers would choke. I wouldn't doubt that it wasn't called for Josh to do that it's just him when he saw it get stopped.

[Nineforty]

I wish all pushes were eliminated

[buffalo2218]

On 9/23/2023 at 12:50 PM, HOUSE said:

This would be a great play for Miami

Just push Tua head first into the defense 

Tua would get brain damage from that. Not sure why everyone thought Philly was the only team that does this. Does anyone remember Gabe pushing Josh on some 4th and short runs last year?

[Rc2catch]

I don’t like the push aspect. A qb sneak is already highly effective. Eagles will probably convert a similar % even if they couldn’t do the push part. I don’t like it on regular plays when the linemen run up and push the pile either. Defenses are already at such a disadvantage. 
Forward progress prevents the defense pushing people back. It should also prevent pushing forward. 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, buffalo2218 said:

Tua would get brain damage from that. Not sure why everyone thought Philly was the only team that does this. Does anyone remember Gabe pushing Josh on some 4th and short runs last year?

 

Yes. It was mentioned in the 5th post on this topic... and a few times afterwards.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Sierra Foothills

[Dan Darragh]

 

[NoSaint]

On 9/23/2023 at 5:41 PM, Rubes said:

 

I was just responding to the last sentence in the article: "The reality is that, if the Eagles continue to be the only team that has perfected the play, it eventually will be pushed right out of the rulebook."

 

I mean, I don't know if I'd say either team has "perfected" the play, but certainly the Eagles aren't the only team that's consistently good at it.

 

some of y’all really hang on throw away sentences 

8 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

I don’t like the push aspect. A qb sneak is already highly effective. Eagles will probably convert a similar % even if they couldn’t do the push part. I don’t like it on regular plays when the linemen run up and push the pile either. Defenses are already at such a disadvantage. 
Forward progress prevents the defense pushing people back. It should also prevent pushing forward. 

It’s just not a scrum sport. As you mention, the rules on these plays are tougher on the defense where even a slight surge gets you progress forward while they can’t force you backwards from there. 
 

it’s also just not engaging television to have it every short yardage play 

[BearNorth]

With Torrence's size, I suspect he will win a lot in the trenches on short yardage.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

The latest on the subject is that the Giants attempted a QB push play on Thursday against the Seahawks.

 

Not only was it unsuccessful, but two of their starters were injured on the play and did not return to the game.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/giants-attempt-at-qb-push-play-resulted-in-injuries-to-two-players

 

"Both center John Michael Schmitz (shoulder) and tight end Daniel Bellinger (knee) exited the game. They did not return."

 

 

[thewookie1]

On 10/1/2023 at 10:43 PM, Sierra Foothills said:

Following up on this topic, 2 significant developments in the "QB Push Play" popularized by the Eagles:

1. Justin Herbert and the Chargers attempted it today and failed... in a crucial late-game situation.
2. The Bills executed what might have been the first-ever "Reverse QB Push Play." 

Josh handed the ball to James Cook and then followed him into the line of scrimmage. Cook was initially stonewalled and it was clearly Josh's push which made the difference. Nance/Romo commented on the play and mused that this might be the first time ever and that it could cause a copy cat trend.

 

I have misgivings about the QB Push Play because no matter how low the QB gets, there's always a chance that a defensive player will take a cheap shot at the QB. With a player like Josh Allen, I'm uneasy about taking that risk.

 

I could see a further development in the Reverse QB Push Play where Latavius Murray or one of the RBs shifts under center into the Wildcat spot and Josh pushes him in... it's the next logical step.

 

As someone else pointed out, I highly doubt Allen’s involvement was scripted. He only jumps in there when he sees Cook get stuck and you can literally see him look, process it and choose to knife his way into the hole behind Cook to give him that extra push to topple the group into the EZ

[Sierra Foothills]

On 10/1/2023 at 8:10 PM, Nineforty said:

I wish all pushes were eliminated

 

On 10/2/2023 at 5:00 AM, NoSaint said:

It’s just not a scrum sport. As you mention, the rules on these plays are tougher on the defense where even a slight surge gets you progress forward while they can’t force you backwards from there. 
 

it’s also just not engaging television to have it every short yardage play 

 

I agree that it's not a football play and that it's pretty ugly.

 

It came up for rules discussion this past offseason and I was surprised it wasn't eliminated.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

As someone else pointed out, I highly doubt Allen’s involvement was scripted. He only jumps in there when he sees Cook get stuck and you can literally see him look, process it and choose to knife his way into the hole behind Cook to give him that extra push to topple the group into the EZ

 

That could be.

 

If it wasn't part of the play design it showed his excellent football instincts because he didn't have too much time to think about it.

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:29 PM, LeGOATski said:

I've never heard anyone be mad at this play. It's a pretty normal football play.

That was until last Sunday when two NY Giants were hurt on that play.

 

NFL is going to outlule it, reinsert the old rule that you can't "assist" another person with the football.

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

That was until last week when two NY Giants were hurt on that play.

 

NFL is going to outrule it, reinsert the old rule that you can't "assist" another person with the football.

 

[Big Turk]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:43 PM, Sierra Foothills said:

As an avid reader of ProFootballTalk (SILENCE!), I ran across this blog post:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nick-sirianni-on-qb-push-play-there-is-not-a-rule-against-it-so-thats-what-we-do

 

“Not everyone has [center] Jason Kelce, [guard] Landon Dickerson, [offensive lineman] Cam Jurgens,” Sirianni said. “Not everybody has [tackle] Jordan Mailata. Not everybody has [tackle] Lane Johnson on the other side. Not everybody has that type of quarterback.

“We noticed that last year when people were making maybe some big deals about it. There are a lot that are unsuccessful. You guys know who the teams were that were, and I don’t know exactly the teams that were successful and the teams that weren’t successful.

“But there is clearly a talent to it that our guys have, because it’s not as -- maybe it’s automatic right now for the Philadelphia Eagles, but it’s not automatic around the NFL . . . You hear it and you’re like, well, I get that some people are complaining about it, but stop it. Stop the play. It’s not as automatic as people think as we’re seeing across the NFL. . . ."

 

The Bills have used a slightly watered-down version of this play, with one pusher instead of two. Obviously Josh is a big, strong, QB and with our upgraded guards this might become more a part of the Bills MO.

 

 

 

Last year they used a version that had Gabe Davis pushing Josh that pretty much always worked whenever they used it

[BearNorth]

I would seem to me that Reggie Gilliam would be the logical helper on a push play.  He's 5 inches shorter than Josh and weighs more.  Wonder if the Refrigerator play is still legal. What if we lined Torrence up as eligible in the backfield.