Josh Named AFC Offensive Player of the Week 2 and Week 4

[RiotAct]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

I don't think Allen threw any picks in that Miami loss. He lost one fumble though

you are correct.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401437738

 

42/63, 400 yds, 2 TD, 0 INT.

[rusty shackleford]

8 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

FILM, film, only sissy QBs watch film! The true greats go off instinct and intuition! 

Just like JaMarcus Russell.

[Beast]

5 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

He wasn't reading any social this week. He was watching WS of Poker. Unless you iMessaged him!

I think Diggs read it and told him about it.

[sunshynman]

Just now, Beast said:

I think Diggs read it and told him about it.

I didn't see him doing charades on the sideline!

[Don Otreply]

So Josh is good again?? 

[PBF81]

23 minutes ago, arcane said:

I don't think Allen threw any picks in that Miami loss. He lost one fumble though

 

No, he didn't.  

 

 

[AuntieEm]

56 minutes ago, JDubya76 said:

You take the good, you take the bad, you take ‘em both and there you have thaaaa, I can’t remember.

 

You need a timeout and a trip to the tent to be checked for concussion.  Until you are cleared from concussions protocol you cannot post replies.  It's for your safety.

[PBF81]

24 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

He wasn't reading any social this week. He was watching WS of Poker. Unless you iMessaged him!

 

And his date night with Haley was on Friday, not Saturday night.  

 

 

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

What does this mean about next week? Jekyll or Hyde? 

Leave Micah out of this. 

[Chandler#81]

Congratulations again, Josh. Outstanding performance!

[JDubya76]

1 hour ago, AuntieEm said:

 

You need a timeout and a trip to the tent to be checked for concussion.  Until you are cleared from concussions protocol you cannot post replies.  It's for your safety.

It’s a lower back injury, put me back in coach.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

2.9 Seconds. 21st quickest or 11th slowest last week. Being decisive (and correct) with the ball is something I still wish he would be better at. 

None the less, much much better game. I am glad the sky isn't falling on me this week and we have steadied the QB play a bit. 

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2023/REG/2#average-time-to-throw

 

Oddly it went up from week one. 2.78 > 2.9

[Gregg]

 

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Oddly it went up from week one. 2.78 > 2.9

He played a great game and made great decisions. I don’t want to take too much away from this week because he was light out.  But as the season progresses I’d like to see a quicker release, hit that back foot and fire.
 

If we can consistently put that stuff together as needed, Josh and the team will be unstoppable.  

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, julian said:

This is why criticism when he costs his team a win is warranted but why the criticism must be contained to that performance and not used as some example of a larger Josh Allen problem.

 

Sorry, but this just flat out wrong.  Praise of Allen's play in a game helps establish his greatness, but criticism of his play in a game isn't a valid commentary on the bigger picture?   If Josh Allen's poor decision making costs the Bills two games a year, that absolutely is a "larger Josh Allen problem."   Two losses a year essentially would mean that for his team to be as good as it should be, Allen has to single-handedly save two other games.  In other words, those two games when Allen pulls a rabbit out of hat don't count as part of his greatness, because it's really only offsetting two games he lost.  

 

How a player plays every game is part of the analysis of that player's greatness or lack of it.   Ask Bill Buckner.  

Edited September 20, 2023 by Shaw66

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

He played a great game and made great decisions. I don’t want to take too much away from this week because he was light out.  But as the season progresses I’d like to see a quicker release, hit that back foot and fire.
 

If we can consistently put that stuff together as needed, Josh and the team will be unstoppable.  

That's an interesting point.   Frankly, I don't expect he'll ever be that kind of QB.   I don't think his body is built for it.    His body gives him other advantages, but natural quickness is something he doesn't have.  

 

Imagine Allen as a wideout.   He can't run routes as well as Davis, because his body won't let him.  And imagining how he would run routes compared to Diggs is actually funny.  

 

Time-to-release is a useful stat, but I think it's principal importance is as a pass-fail test.   If you pass, it doesn't matter so much if you were the fastest or slowest.  

 

That is, I don't think it matters much if Allen is really fast.  I think he brings so much to the game, there's nothing wrong with being just average in some categories. 

 

Against the Raiders, I could imagine that this could be a team that is unstoppable.  If Allen is disciplined like that, the oline protects him like that, the Bills have a lot of weapons.  Three running backs, five receivers.   And Allen.  

[78thealltimegreat]

32 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

How the heck does Justin Herbert keep finishing so high on these lists? 

[julian]

19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Sorry, but this just flat out wrong.  Praise of Allen's play in a game helps establish his greatness, but criticism of his play in a game isn't a valid commentary on the bigger picture?   If Josh Allen's poor decision making costs the Bills two games a year, that absolutely is a "larger Josh Allen problem."   Two losses a year essentially would mean that for his team to be as good as it should be, Allen has to single-handedly save two other games.  In other words, those two games when Allen pulls a rabbit out of hat don't count as part of his greatness, because it's really only offsetting two games he lost.  

 

How a player plays every game is part of the analysis of that player's greatness or lack of it.   Ask Bill Buckner.  

You go ahead and ride that rollercoaster, luckily for you the highs far outweigh the lows, Which is kinda the point.

 

 Allen will always throw pics and as long as he keeps scoring at a 3:1 TD rate who cares. Not all INTS are created equal and Allen cost his team the opener because he melted down and made poor decisions.

 

 He doesn’t have a history of solely costing this team wins but he does have a full resume of carrying it to victories.

 

[Punching Bag]

42 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

 

Any top 10 with Kirk Cousins on it is not worth being on it.

Also no idea who Cody "pay me lots of" Benjamins is.

 

CBS intern?

[Gregg]

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

Any top 10 with Kirk Cousins on it is not worth being on it.

 

I think they go week to week. Burrow has started slow but ranked 27th. That's nuts.

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, julian said:

You go ahead and ride that rollercoaster, luckily for you the highs far outweigh the lows, Which is kinda the point.

 

 Allen will always throw pics and as long as he keeps scoring at a 3:1 TD rate who cares. Not all INTS are created equal and Allen cost his team the opener because he melted down and made poor decisions.

 

 He doesn’t have a history of solely costing this team wins but he does have a full resume of carrying it to victories.

 

 

 

 

Do you mean 3:1 TD:INT rate?  Because ....psssssssst (whispers) rate numbers are only meaningful when you look at the whole picture, or at a series of related games.

 

We'd like to see Josh stay at 3:1, but career, Josh is 2.25:1

[Beck Water]

 

https://x.com/agetzenberg/status/1704563066631852368?s=20

 

"Josh Allen said that he was surprised he won AFC Offensive Player of the Week. He said he didn’t think his stats were “that great.”

Allen completed 83.8% of his passes, threw for 274 yards and three touchdowns.

 

https://x.com/agetzenberg/status/1704563809405280324?s=20

 

Compared it to the other times he won and noted that they give those awards to players on winning teams

[WideNine]

4 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Better than last week when he was the Jets' MVP.

 

(I kid, I kid.)

 

 

 

It's OK to say it.

 

He had a bad game and fell back into some bad habits that we've seen before and so has Allen for that matter - going by his post game presser.

 

He just has to stack up these wins and adjust to how most defenses are going to play us.

 

We have a lot of playmakers that can take the shorter stuff and generate chunk RAC results that will keep the chains moving and the defense fresh.

 

They will have to get creative with Diggs to keep him involved so he is not just running routes into double coverage.

 

Josh is not the only impatient player on the roster.

 

 

 

[Aimee75]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

That will make it harder to replace him...

Yeah, guys, I think we are STUCK with him for real for real 😑

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, JDubya76 said:

It’s a lower back injury, put me back in coach.

That's what they all say.  I'm not risking your future health.

[Shaw66]

52 minutes ago, julian said:

You go ahead and ride that rollercoaster, luckily for you the highs far outweigh the lows, Which is kinda the point.

 

 Allen will always throw pics and as long as he keeps scoring at a 3:1 TD rate who cares. Not all INTS are created equal and Allen cost his team the opener because he melted down and made poor decisions.

 

 He doesn’t have a history of solely costing this team wins but he does have a full resume of carrying it to victories.

 

It's not about one's opinion of who Allen is.   It's about your dismissive point, which was that bad games are not to be considered when evaluating Allen's greatness?   Why should his good games be considered, but not his bad games?   It's all part of the same package. 

[AuntieEm]

54 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

How the heck does Justin Herbert keep finishing so high on these lists? 

Must be getting votes  from fans if his grandfather's books.  I lived the dune trilogy too but still don't think much of his grandson as a qb.  

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

 

Who the hell is Cody Benjamin?  

 

 

[julian]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It's not about one's opinion of who Allen is.   It's about your dismissive point, which was that bad games are not to be considered when evaluating Allen's greatness?   Why should his good games be considered, but not his bad games?   It's all part of the same package. 

You’re free to use any measurements or stats you wish to reach whatever greatness conclusions you’d like.

 

 I just prefer to not focus on any single game or performance to confirm my biases. I think seeing the larger body of work is more useful information than the rare 3 INT loss he coughed up. Those are so few and far between and as long as he’s scoring more TDs than any other QB in the league I’m very ok with his play.

 

 My opinion of course.

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Must be getting votes  from fans if his grandfather's books.  I lived the dune trilogy too but still don't think much of his grandson as a qb.  

 

Is that serious?  Herbert is the grandson of Frank Herbert, the author?  I had no idea

[BillsFan692]

Hey guys just think he accomplished this WITHOUT Dalton Kincaid blocking very well.

[AuntieEm]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Is that serious?  Herbert is the grandson of Frank Herbert, the author?  I had no idea

I read it someplace but to be honest I don't thinki it is true or we'd have heard it on game broadcasts aþ least once by now.

Edited September 20, 2023 by AuntieEm

[CSBill]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Jordon Love ???

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, CSBill said:

Jordon Love ???

He looked alright in a couple games  and it's Greenbay and they went from Farve to Rodgers now to Love surely this means he's great....🤷‍♂️

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

Do you mean 3:1 TD:INT rate?  Because ....psssssssst (whispers) rate numbers are only meaningful when you look at the whole picture, or at a series of related games.

 

We'd like to see Josh stay at 3:1, but career, Josh is 2.25:1

Our collective lives with Josh Allen have been that Josh Allen, the guy throwing 2.25:1.   That's what has to change.  He needs to be productive at 3:1 rate.   Josh is currently 15 on the career list; Cousins, Lamar, Patrick, Burrow, Herbert; they're all ahead of him.  And I don't think adding in rushing TDs really matters, because everyone agrees that Josh running isn't sustainable.  Plus, if you're going to add rushing TDs, you also have to add fumbles lost.  

 

Not that I live and die on ANY stat, but it is good evidence that Allen needs to make better decisions.   He needs to put up games like the Raiders game - just routine wins, not full of adventure.  Boring wins, if you will.  That's what all the great ones did, do.  Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, Mahomes.   It's a combination of great production and limiting mistakes.  When Josh gets disciplined in his thinking, his wins will pile up.  The Allen miracle plays and miracle wins will still happen, just like Rodgers and Mahomes, but not so often.  

 

Some people have talked before about whether the Jets game was a turning point in his career.  Too early to tell, of course, but I thought he made a dramatic change from week to week, from taking the snap and trying to figure it out from there (Jets) to just running the play the way he's taught to run it (Raiders).  Make the right decisions, take sure completions over possibly bigger games.  

 

Someone said we don't want to turn him into a game manager, but in fact a game manager, in the literal sense, is what he needs to be.  Some people imply "athletically limited" when they talk about game managers, meaning the guy can't beat you with his body but he survives with his brain.  Allen isn't that guy, obviously, but Allen does need to manage the game by running the plays as they were designed.  Most of the Bills plays are designed without regard to Allen's physical skills; they're designed so that normal NFL starting quarterbacks can run them.  Allen has to understand that on most plays, his special physical skills are not required, and he should play in a way that does not require him to use his special skills.  He has to run the plays as they were designed - read the progressions and do what you're supposed to do.  And do it with some principles in mind; principles like (in most cases) a 5-yard throw that has a 90% completion rate is better than a 30-yard throw that has a 50% completion rate and a 10% INT rate.  Those are the kind of things that game managers do, because in their case, it's the only way they can survive in the league.  But they are also the kind of thing that Brady and Manning did, too.  Making good decisions, which will reduce the mistakes, will make Allen great.  How great?  Well, how long will it take him to play every game like the Raiders game?   He's working on a streak of exactly one game.   Based only on my stereo-typed view of alcoholics and recovery, and with apologies if I've offended, a part of the solution is an awareness of the problem and a daily intention not to have the problem today.  I'd say the same thing to Josh.  You've got one, can you make it two?  

[Buffalo Boy]

   It’s results like this that cause a bunch of us to stay off this board for weeks at a time due to the vapid opinion/squalling.

   Of course our 10 time AFC player of the week delivered an uninspired looking blowout , like the one of a kind pro that he is.  Now he’s got 11z 
    I know, who cares if BB is here or not….. cool. But, the insane , completely unhinged front page of the wall last week is the reason some beloved SW poster you do miss might have moved on.
    I guess it boils down to the literal definition of fanatic. 
    😐

[Shaw66]

18 minutes ago, julian said:

You’re free to use any measurements or stats you wish to reach whatever greatness conclusions you’d like.

 

 I just prefer to not focus on any single game or performance to confirm my biases. I think seeing the larger body of work is more useful information than the rare 3 INT loss he coughed up. Those are so few and far between and as long as he’s scoring more TDs than any other QB in the league I’m very ok with his play.

 

 My opinion of course.

Very okay with his play?   Oh, yeah, I'm on board with that.  Absolutely.   I'm not complaining about Josh.   I'm never trading him, cutting him, losing him in free agency.   

 

What I'm talking about (at least my view of it) is whether Allen will be Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers.  Or Michael Vick or Cam Newton.  

 

I think that how Allen played against the Jets looks familiar - it happens to him, and if it continues to happen he won't have reached the greatness we all expect of him.  Right now, I think he's spectacular to watch but not winning as consistently as he should.  When he really learns how to run games, he's going to be unbelievable. 

 

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.   In a way, your offense is only as good as how many of your skill position guys make plays.  This season it looks like Bills have some real talent at all the skill positions, deep talent.   Plus, the Bills have the most skilled QB.   The problem is maximizing the touches the skill guys get in the places where they can make plays.   Allen is the one who can maximize the touches, because he's the guy who can get the ball to them.  So Allen has to run the offense correctly.   Once he does that, it should be amazing.  

 

Want to imagine what it can be like?   I think at the skill positions, collectively the Bills look like the 49ers.   Yeah, we can argue about the names, and the reputations, but Knox and Kincaid create a lot of threats at tight end.  Kittle does, in different ways.   Diggs is a serious threat, different from Deebo, but I don't know that I'm trading, even up.  Bills running backs create tests.  All the 49er guys have bigger reputations, but the Bills are similarly challenging to defenses.   Now, imagine the 49ers having Allen at QB instead of Brock Purdy.   I think it's easy to imagine what a huge difference that would be.  If Allen ran that offense as designed, and you take his mobility, arm strength, toughness over Purdy's, that would be incredible. 

 

That's what I think Allen can be, and I'm all in on it.   But it is very much about his ability to increase the touches for his teammates, and that's about sustaining drives and not turning it over.  Want to know what the biggest stat of the game was?  The Bills ran 74 plays to the Raiders 39.   How many of those 74 plays were Josh Allen highlights?   Very few.  He spent the whole game making sure that the playmakers got the ball.   When you have good playmakers, it's all about getting them the ball.  And it's an added bonus when your QB is one of the best playmakers anyone has ever seen.  

 

That's why I think Allen getting his mistakes under control is important.   I think his mistakes are the only thing keeping him from winning a lot, really a lot, of MVPs and Super Bowls, and whatever else you want to measure.   I think if he starts playing with discipline and avoids mistakes, he could forever be in the conversation of top 5 QBs, all time.  But time's a-wastin.

 

If he doesn't become that, I'd guess he'll still win a Super Bowl.  Everything will come together sometime, but his success could be so much greater than just one magical year. 

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   It’s results like this that cause a bunch of us to stay off this board for weeks at a time due to the vapid opinion/squalling.

   Of course our 10 time AFC player of the week delivered an uninspired looking blowout , like the one of a kind pro that he is.  Now he’s got 11z 
    I know, who cares if BB is here or not….. cool. But, the insane , completely unhinged front page of the wall last week is the reason some beloved SW poster you do miss might have moved on.
    I guess it boils down to the literal definition of fanatic. 
    😐

Well, I wouldn't be too tough on your fellows here.   

 

The reality is, a lot of fans were really wired for the opener.   There was a lot pent up emotion, and a lot people who wanted to see the demons of last season exorcised.   Instead, what they got was a disappointing showing in a big game, a nationally-televised game.   It hurt.  It wasn't surprising that there was a lot unhappiness expressed.  

 

Look at my Rockpile Review before the first game.   I predicted that what we'd see against the Jets was a thoroughly human machine.  Instead, what I got was a team that looked like the nervous challenger to the throne, instead of the steady defender of it.   I didn't write a Rockpile Review that week, because I didn't want to talk about it.   Just hurry up move on to the next game was how I felt.  Fortunately, the next game made me feel better.  

 

Once we get a little farther into the season, once it's a little clearer what we have, then I expect the discussions will make more sense.  So long as we aren't 3-4.

[Buffalo Boy]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I wouldn't be too tough on your fellows here.   

 

The reality is, a lot of fans were really wired for the opener.   There was a lot pent up emotion, and a lot people who wanted to see the demons of last season exorcised.   Instead, what they got was a disappointing showing in a big game, a nationally-televised game.   It hurt.  It wasn't surprising that there was a lot unhappiness expressed.  

 

Look at my Rockpile Review before the first game.   I predicted that what we'd see against the Jets was a thoroughly human machine.  Instead, what I got was a team that looked like the nervous challenger to the throne, instead of the steady defender of it.   I didn't write a Rockpile Review that week, because I didn't want to talk about it.   Just hurry up move on to the next game was how I felt.  Fortunately, the next game made me feel better.  

 

Once we get a little farther into the season, once it's a little clearer what we have, then I expect the discussions will make more sense.  So long as we aren't 3-4.

   Shaw, you are a voice of calm and reason on here. 
    I get that losing sucks and I’m down on the coaches and GM to some degree as well. 
    But, the “Hair on fire” crowd takes but one negative play to explode onto the scene. Then , you read a thread like this and it’s, Ooh I love Josh and ALWAYS have and Dang, That Dorsey, He Dah Man!!! 
   A few on here are consistent but the bi polar, reactionary threads and posts and twenty post, back and forth pissing matches over pointless stuff….. 😵‍💫

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   Shaw, you are a voice of calm and reason on here. 
    I get that losing sucks and I’m down on the coaches and GM to some degree as well. 
    But, the “Hair on fire” crowd takes but one negative play to explode onto the scene. Then , you read a thread like this and it’s, Ooh I love Josh and ALWAYS have and Dang, That Dorsey, He Dah Man!!! 
   A few on here are consistent but the bi polar, reactionary threads and posts and twenty post, back and forth pissing matches over pointless stuff….. 😵‍💫

Well, my impression is that it just isn't that bad here.   I seem to be able to find plenty of people to talk with in rational conversations.  

 

I use the ignore feature on 8-10 people, some of whom know a lot of football, but who are good at drawing me into arguments I don't want to be in.  I don't want to be in those conversations, so I ignore the poster.   Ignore allows us to know that ignored posters have posted in the thread, and it lets me look at posts individually.  Lately I've been doing more of that, because some of them hav inteeresting points to make.