Bills Offense

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

McCargo - BUST! WE DONT KNOW WHAT WERE DOING

Kyle Williams - Stud! But we wasted a 1st!

 

We doubled down on the position with Tre out, one year removed from wallace leaving.  Jackson stepped up, benford was able to contribute, and Elam has been forced to battle.  Nothing is given or guaranteed on a roster this deep so he'll have to keep grinding and wait for the next opportunity. 

As one of the national guys (that many of you will recognize) says, it is not important HOW the 49ers got a QB. What is important is THAT they got a QB. They wasted a lot of ammo trading up for a wasted high first round o pick, but they got a guy to do the job on the cheap. 

 

I’m not giving up on Elam by any means, but we have guys who can play CB in the NFL. It would be worse if we had to play him because we lacked better options. 

[Utah John]

51 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I thought starting the game with 2 straight runs was less about putting "Allen on a leash" and more about breaking tendencies.  The Bills almost never run the ball twice in a row. 

 

I don't get the insistence on perfection in a sport whch has only seen one team in it's 100 year history go undefeated.  The Bills were lethal in the Red Zone yesterday.  Failing to score on one drive from the 1 yard line should not constitute a problem in the context of how all the other Red Zone visits went.

 

There was no need to throw the ball deep.  The Raiders stubbornly and foolishly stayed in their shell D hoping that the pundits were right and Allen would grow bored and throw a couple of INT's. 

 

 

 

The Patriots also stayed in a shell D for a long time in yesterday's game against the Dolphins.  And Tua carved them up with a long series of short passes to wide open receivers.  And yet at the end the Pats were almost in a position to win, with only an interception on a great play by a Miami DB taking away a scoring opportunity.  

 

That shell D is what a lot of teams are going to use when faced with a talented offense like Buffalo's or Miami's.  It's the old bend but don't break philosophy -- let the other guys move down the field, then stop them in the red zone.

2 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Did you read the boards last week? LOL 

 

If not, good move on your part my friend.

Actually I hardly glanced at the boards last week.  The anger and negativity were repulsive.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Utah John

[Kmart128]

What i find crazy is Josh Allen has 3 INTs already so far but yet he is leading the league in completion percentage. Crazy that you can have that many interceptions and not be inaccurate 

[Utah John]

12 minutes ago, Augie said:

As one of the national guys (that many of you will recognize) says, it is not important HOW the 49ers got a QB. What is important is THAT they got a QB. They wasted a lot of ammo trading up for a wasted high first round o pick, but they got a guy to do the job on the cheap. 

 

I’m not giving up on Elam by any means, but we have guys who can play CB in the NFL. It would be worse if we had to play him because we lacked better options. 

We should be grateful that Benford has turned out so great, not concerned that Elam hasn't.  Elam is still a great athlete and if he can learn how to play zone defense, he'll be a valuable member of the Bills.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Utah John

[Don Otreply]

43 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Agree with the rollercoaster.  I was just noting a few things I saw.  Can I also say, screen passes too should be better executed? 

 

Yes only week two, but lots of work still to be done imo.

They scored in the redzone, but none were easy.  The throw to Shakir was something only Mahomes & Allen can do imo.

 

Why?  Because I had a couple of issues?  Isn't that what the board is for?  

Not what I was getting at, you lamented the lack of long passes, I explained why it isn’t a concern,  that’s what the board is about, 😁👍

[Utah John]

Most of us can remember many years when the Bills would lose a game like the Jets game, win nicely the next time, and then stumble along to another 9-7 record.  The past few years, the Bills might lose a game, but then they'll reel off 6 or 8 straight wins.  Overcoming a loss is due to the strong roster and to the players and coaches taking honest looks at what went wrong and then fixing things.  We haven't been on a rollercoaster for years.  

 

The schedule is particularly tough this year so we might not win 13 games again, but I'm very encouraged by what we saw yesterday.  The Bills imposed their will on a Raiders team that came in thinking they were pretty darn good because they were 1-0 (beating the lousy Broncos by a point).  Most games won't be as easy but the Bills regularly win tough games.

[PBF81]

The most encouraging part of the offense as I view it, is the play of the OL and the fact that our starting five are essentially taking all the snaps.  No more rotating players.  This is the first time on McBeane's watch that I recall that being the case.   

 

Our 5 starting OL-men each had 100% snaps last week.  

 

This week Brown and Torrence were at 100%, McGovern and Dawkins at 95%, and Morse at 92%, with Edwards, Van Demark, and Bates exclusively backing them up respectively.  

 

I didn't watch when the subs came, but presumably at the end of the game when it was well in hand.  

 

The relevance of that is incredible.  For the first time in years we are likely going to have a level of chemistry along our OL and we're about to see what that looks like.  

 

That will help Allen's game tremdendously, and it goes without saying that the running game will be boosted significantly as well.  

 

I'm still incredibly bullish that this offense sets franchise records this season.  It's too early to extrapolate projections, but I would not rule out both Diggs and Davis over 1,000, Kincaid appears to already be Allen's third favorite and we may yet see a 700-800 yard season from the rookie as he's apparently supplanted Knox in the receiving department.  And Cook, great game.  He's on pace for over 300 touches.  Hopefully he holds up.  

 

Very exciting game yesterday.  

 

Currently Cook/Diggs/Davis rank 8th, 21st, and 47th in Yards-from-Scrimmage.   That's three players in the top-48.  I'm anticipating all three finishing in the top-50 easily.  

 

 

23 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Most of us can remember many years when the Bills would lose a game like the Jets game, win nicely the next time, and then stumble along to another 9-7 record.  The past few years, the Bills might lose a game, but then they'll reel off 6 or 8 straight wins.  Overcoming a loss is due to the strong roster and to the players and coaches taking honest looks at what went wrong and then fixing things.  We haven't been on a rollercoaster for years.  

 

The schedule is particularly tough this year so we might not win 13 games again, but I'm very encouraged by what we saw yesterday.  The Bills imposed their will on a Raiders team that came in thinking they were pretty darn good because they were 1-0 (beating the lousy Broncos by a point).  Most games won't be as easy but the Bills regularly win tough games.

 

And honestly, I don't care if we do go 10-7, even if it means a wild-card, but then sweep in the playoffs.  

 

Division wins aren't the goal, a Lombardi is. 

 

If our OL stays healthy though, dang, I'm giddy at the prospects for this offense.  

 

 

[PBF81]

36 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Actually I hardly glanced at the boards last week.  The anger and negativity were repulsive.

 

People overreact to Ws and Ls.  Sometimes there are positives to take from the Ls.  

 

I don't see much positive in our offensive struggles in three straight games now against the Jets, except for our OL play.  

 

Again, our five starting OL-men each played 100% snaps last week and played admirably considering the Jets' D.  

 

As I've mentioned, as that chemistry builds we're going to see an OL that we simply haven't seen on McBeane's watch to date.  It will benefit Allen immensely and allow him to calmly correct his few flaws, and provide us a balanced attack.  

 

Big things in store for the O this season IMO.  

 

 

[PBF81]

Our offense is very balanced, thus far, also.  

 

That's a huge positive.  

 

 

[26TrapDraw]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He’s not a bust. 

Healthy scratch x2 already? He's getting there.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, 26TrapDraw said:

Healthy scratch x2 already? He's getting there.

It’s a situation where he’s the 5th CB on the roster with 4 CBs ahead of him that can start for many teams. I haven’t seen anything in his play that suggests he can’t start in this league.

 

I don’t know what the plan is for Elam. I’ve felt all offseason and still feel that this is Tre White’s last year as a Bill for cap purposes. Maybe the story isn’t written yet for Elam. He still is under contract 3 more seasons. He could be starting next year.

Maybe he’s trade bait. Who knows.

 

[flmike]

6 hours ago, billsherd said:

Allen took deeper dropbacks to pass and that seemed to help. Week1 Jets D got after Allen and that D also had a much better secondary so Allen couldn't find guys open as he did against the Raiders.

That's a huge difference. The Jets D is strong everywhere while LV has some good safeties but not much in the middle. Exploit weaknesses when they are there. 

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Utah John said:

The Patriots also stayed in a shell D for a long time in yesterday's game against the Dolphins.  And Tua carved them up with a long series of short passes to wide open receivers.  And yet at the end the Pats were almost in a position to win, with only an interception on a great play by a Miami DB taking away a scoring opportunity.  

 

That shell D is what a lot of teams are going to use when faced with a talented offense like Buffalo's or Miami's.  It's the old bend but don't break philosophy -- let the other guys move down the field, then stop them in the red zone.

 

And this is where elite, special QB's like Mahomes & Allen make a difference.  The Bills scored two Red Zone TD's as a result of jaw dropping plays by Allen as their long drives appeared to peter out.

 

 

[freddyjj]

5 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Our offense is very balanced, thus far, also.  

 

That's a huge positive.  

 

 

Last time Bills had an RB run for over 100 yds and have over 35 yds receiving In a game was LeSean McCoy vs Jets in 2017 opener.  He ran for 110 and had 45 receiving.  

 

So Cook's 123 Rushing and 36 in catches is the best in 6 years by any Bills RB.  

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Last time Bills had an RB run for over 100 yds and have over 35 yds receiving In a game was LeSean McCoy vs Jets in 2017 opener.  He ran for 110 and had 45 receiving.  

 

So Cook's 123 Rushing and 36 in catches is the best in 6 years by any Bills RB.  

 

I know that the Raider D isn't the best, but let's hope the balance continues anyway.  

 

I'm eager to watch this offense all season.  

 

Reminds me of Air Coryell.  

 

... except that Allen can move, Fouts couldn't.  LOL  

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by PBF81

[WhoTom]

8 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Screw chunk plays, the D intentionally took them away just like the Jets did. Just get freaking first downs and move the ball. You know, like Mahomes and Brady did to win superbowls.

 

Agreed. "Dink and dunk" also keeps the opposing offense on the sidelines and gives your defense a chance to rest. Very important when you're playing a high-powered offense like the Chiefs.

 

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

Agreed. "Dink and dunk" also keeps the opposing offense on the sidelines and gives your defense a chance to rest. Very important when you're playing a high-powered offense like the Chiefs.

 

 

And Philly,Cincinnati, Dallas etc.  Look I love death by 1000 cuts, it still works today.

 

At some point they will switch to man,drop the deep shell and BANG!  Allen will make them pay.

[Utah John]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

And this is where elite, special QB's like Mahomes & Allen make a difference.  The Bills scored two Red Zone TD's as a result of jaw dropping plays by Allen as their long drives appeared to peter out.

 

 

I agree completely.  Both Mahomes and Allen have rocket arms for long throws downfield, but what makes them really dangerous like no others is their ability to create plays.

[HappyDays]

 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

 

Agreed. "Dink and dunk" also keeps the opposing offense on the sidelines and gives your defense a chance to rest. Very important when you're playing a high-powered offense like the Chiefs.

 

 

 

The only problem with dink and dunk is it takes extreme precision and focus for the entire game.  Death by a thousand cuts is great but it only takes one dropped football, one penalty, one stuffed run, one off target pass, one receiver on 3rd down not finding the sticks in his route to ruin an entire drive and forcing a punt.  People love it when it works but as soon as it doesn't the "check down artists" comments will start flowing.  When you start needing 15 play drives to march the field all the time, that doesn't leave any room for mistakes.

[Andy1]

I liked the addition of Kincaid and using 12 personnel more. He has helped Josh and the pass game with both improving protection against Crosby and the pass rush as well as giving Josh a reliable outlet weapon. He gives us another big body to help block in the run game too. 

[Thrivefourfive]

Honestly if was all east for the Bills. This wasn’t the time to judge the standard. The guys guys up from aggressive backfield AND MEGA MILANO DESTROYED THE RUN GAME, and force Garrapollo to do thing he don’t do. Easy V.

 

We saw that the Bills offense really is loaded. Only two plays pissed me off yesterday.. hard count on 4&1 for no damn reason — just run the damn play without gimmicks,, you’re better than they are — no gimmicks please.

 

And the 4&Goal miss. That play started with Harty trying to let sweep Allen before snap, then Allen throwing to a double covered TE in the zone. Diggs wide open, but I never saw a replay from JA17 POV.

 

Throwing to double coverages TEs is a little issue I’m seeing.

[Richard Noggin]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

The only problem with dink and dunk is it takes extreme precision and focus for the entire game.  Death by a thousand cuts is great but it only takes one dropped football, one penalty, one stuffed run, one off target pass, one receiver on 3rd down not finding the sticks in his route to ruin an entire drive and forcing a punt.  People love it when it works but as soon as it doesn't the "check down artists" comments will start flowing.  When you start needing 15 play drives to march the field all the time, that doesn't leave any room for mistakes.

 

Sure, poor execution will derail just about any offensive drive. But featuring short and intermediate passing and efficient running against 2-deep defensive looks is a smart and necessary gameplan that does NOT mean the Bills CAN'T push the ball downfield or create chunkier plays when they get behind the sticks. It just means they're actively working to avoid those exact scenarios by more consistently taking modest gains. Allen 100% has shown an ability to function this way (calm, efficient execution) at an elite level over portions of the 2020, 2021, and 2022 seasons. From the playoffs of 2021 through the first handful of games in 2022, Allen was historically elite. I know that's only half a season or so, but wow. That level of talent combined with that degree of patience and precision (maybe culminating in the 2022 KC game...that can win a superbowl). 

[Billsfan1972]

13 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

And this is where elite, special QB's like Mahomes & Allen make a difference.  The Bills scored two Red Zone TD's as a result of jaw dropping plays by Allen as their long drives appeared to peter out.

 

 

And that was my concern, yes small issues in a 38-10 game, but three red zone trips that resulted in difficulty getting it in the end zone.  So what if I like to see 15-20 yard td strikes???   

[Buffalo_Stampede]

People probably won’t agree with me but Josh Allen and the offense was doing similar things vs the Jets great defense. The difference was Allen tried to be a hero a 5-6 times. He was hitting a lot of short routes. They were open all night. Dorsey had a great plan week 1 as well.

 

Allen completed 70% vs the Jets. He’s completing 76% for the season.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[JerseyBills]

https://x.com/PFF_College/status/1703916058275463177?s=20

Ocyrus - 42 pass blocks 1 pressure. Rookie out to a scorching start

[Milanos Milano]

On 9/19/2023 at 5:18 AM, JerseyBills said:

https://x.com/PFF_College/status/1703916058275463177?s=20

Ocyrus - 42 pass blocks 1 pressure. Rookie out to a scorching start

So happy with big O. Hope we draft more players like him next year. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

This works against the Raiders. 

 

Where you can ignore all their pass rushers beside Crosby, where you can hand off to James Cook and get 7 yards, where Gabe Davis is getting open, you're playing at home. 

 

We don't have a large enough sample size to say this death by 1000 paper cuts Allen offense is here to stay. 

On 9/19/2023 at 6:25 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

People probably won’t agree with me but Josh Allen and the offense was doing similar things vs the Jets great defense. The difference was Allen tried to be a hero a 5-6 times. He was hitting a lot of short routes. They were open all night. Dorsey had a great plan week 1 as well.

 

Allen completed 70% vs the Jets. He’s completing 76% for the season.

Except the run was bottled up more against the Jets, and the offensive line was worse, and Gabe Davis was the invisible Gabe. 

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

This works against the Raiders. 

 

Where you can ignore all their pass rushers beside Crosby, where you can hand off to James Cook and get 7 yards, where Gabe Davis is getting open, you're playing at home. 

 

We don't have a large enough sample size to say this death by 1000 paper cuts Allen offense is here to stay. 

Except the run was bottled up more against the Jets, and the offensive line was worse, and Gabe Davis was the invisible Gabe. 

I love the 180 that happens here.....  All of a sudden the Bills offense is unstoppable and works to perfection as long a Allen dinks and dunks and the Bills are rushiong 7-8 yds/carry.  

 

There was a ton to like, however yes I hated that first drive, where after the Jets game I knew even though down 7-0 it was going to be runs on first & second down.

 

This week it is Washington who irrespective of their 2-0 record are not a good team, so expect yes a 20+ point victory and anything less will be a disappointment.  

 

Again want to see more of the intermediate ball that Allen was lethal with in 2020-22.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

41 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I love the 180 that happens here.....  All of a sudden the Bills offense is unstoppable and works to perfection as long a Allen dinks and dunks and the Bills are rushiong 7-8 yds/carry.  

 

There was a ton to like, however yes I hated that first drive, where after the Jets game I knew even though down 7-0 it was going to be runs on first & second down.

 

This week it is Washington who irrespective of their 2-0 record are not a good team, so expect yes a 20+ point victory and anything less will be a disappointment.  

 

Again want to see more of the intermediate ball that Allen was lethal with in 2020-22.

We've seen mid-season lulls with Allen and the Bills in seasons past. 

 

I don't know that the Bills run game will run for 185 yards every week and Allen will always take Dorsey's "easy button" throws (I hate that term that WGR coined). 

 

Is Gabe going to be consistent? No probably not. 

 

Is Allen checking down all game always going to result in 38 points? Probably not. 

 

So we need to see a consistency, we didn't see it in 2021 (w/Daboll) or 2022 (Dorsey). 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Except the run was bottled up more against the Jets, and the offensive line was worse, and Gabe Davis was the invisible Gabe. 

They faced a better defense. We’ll probably see similar struggles this week up front. The only difference is Washington’s secondary isn’t as good.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They faced a better defense. We’ll probably see similar struggles this week up front. The only difference is Washington’s secondary isn’t as good.

Exactly, that's why we go problem solved, and it's potentially not solved. 

Also, Allen keeps checking down, eventually expect DCs to see enough of that footage to start taking that away, leading to the same old thing - is the line good enough, are the WRs good enough, to get down the field vertically? 

Now, Dorsey do more with formations to combat this, but it will be an evolution because the mix is different this year. Only Diggs has proven to be skilled enough to be a balanced all around WR.

 

[ColoradoBills]

On 9/18/2023 at 4:31 PM, Scott7975 said:

 

The only problem with dink and dunk is it takes extreme precision and focus for the entire game.  Death by a thousand cuts is great but it only takes one dropped football, one penalty, one stuffed run, one off target pass, one receiver on 3rd down not finding the sticks in his route to ruin an entire drive and forcing a punt.  People love it when it works but as soon as it doesn't the "check down artists" comments will start flowing.  When you start needing 15 play drives to march the field all the time, that doesn't leave any room for mistakes.

 

The Bills and Josh Allen showed they CAN do the "dink and dunk" gameplan.  That is big!

There will be plenty of big throws this season.  If Dorsey can learn to use the short game to set up the big plays............watch out.

[Scott7975]

32 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The Bills and Josh Allen showed they CAN do the "dink and dunk" gameplan.  That is big!

There will be plenty of big throws this season.  If Dorsey can learn to use the short game to set up the big plays............watch out.

 

He's shown it before though.  It is a good thing but it's not really new.  Remember the first off season he had with Palmer?  They worked on his short to intermediate game and he came in that season doing very well with it. The next season they worked on his deep ball stuff and did well with that.

 

I'm not worried about big throws.  In fact, I am not worried about Josh at all.  I thought the entire week after the Jets game was overblown.  Yes, he deserved the criticism for the loss, but some people were just crazy with the "Josh is Wentz" type of stuff.  All QBs have bad games.  Josh is just magnified when he does.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 9/17/2023 at 9:33 PM, Araiza Curse said:

It’s amazing what happens when you take what the defense gives you. Allen was definitely surgeon like, and I apologize for being so critical the other week. As long as Allen keeps his head on straight, we will be nearly unstoppable. It’s almost as if McD really got into his ear over the week, because it was night and day with how focused he played. 

Nice to see a Shakir sighting, and it’s good to see Kincaid get more involved. Our 3 headed monster feasted, and our physical backs like Harris and Murray is a nice addition that we lacked last year. It was very noticeable later in the game when the defense was playing tired, just kept gashing them and there wasn’t much they could do about it. 

Hopefully Davis can carry over his performance and become a consistent option. It was nice seeing him have a good game for a change. At home we have been averaging 30+ points, so it’s good to see we are still hanging around our expected benchmark. 

I just hope everyone stays healthy this year. 

This was an important game for Josh if for no other reason than to realize the immense value of "taking what they give you".  There will be moments when Josh can activate hero ball, but he has to mature and change some of his game planning.  He's gotta begin games calm, prepared and focused.  

[Rockinon]

It was nice to see the success from the short game, but there was more to it than just short passes. It was to a plethora of different players. RBs, TEs, WRs not named Diggs. This is a major problem for the defense because they don't know who it is going to next. The only options to stop this, is to put more speed on the field or to bring one of those high safeties down closer to the box. Neither is necessarily a good option. Whenever, the offense can force defenses to do things they don't want to do, it is a going to open up other options. For instance, putting more defensive backs in the game, opens up some running options or screen passes. Just imagine a DB taking on a block from a TE on a screen. Bringing up a safety leaves someone 1 on 1 in the deep passing game.

 

When defenses realize that it's pick your poison on how to defend, the offense is doing it's job well. Having so many different weapons for Josh is really going to open up the playbook. The offensive coaches and players must be salivating right now. I'm not predicting a close game at all. The offense is just getting warmed up. I believe the score will be similar to the Raiders game. I see a deep shot or two coming. Don't know when, exactly. Will depend on when a D realizes they can't take away anything short and try to adjust. Maybe it won't be this game. Defenders may want to see if Josh can consistently deliver in the short game. But if last week is any indication, the offense looks like it is just getting started.

[Milanos Milano]

Maybe Brown’s pass blocking would be better if he tried this strategy, nobody will want to go near him. 
 

 

[Milanos Milano]

Allen was a man possessed today! It’s amazing the difference since week 1, like a light switch flipped and he’s just taken what is given to him. Many times I’m seen him look for the RB in the flat right away knowing they would be open rather than making bad mistakes downfield when it isn’t available. Because of those smart decisions, things slowly opened up downfield throughout the day. I just hope he finally gets it and sticks with it for some consistency. 

[transient]

THAT is how you get the most out of Gabe Davis. Get the rest of the offense involved so you’re not relying on him, and target him 3-4 times per game. 

[Milanos Milano]

Receiving Yards leaders 

 

Diggs  399

Davis  220 

Cook   115

Kincaid 99

Knox  55 

Murray 48 

 

 

A little disappointed that Kincaid only has 99 yards at this time.