We need one more superstar

[Billzebub]

I’m trying to look objectively at our team.  I’m older so I was around for the early 90’s superbowl teams.  We had Andre, Jim, Thurman and Bruce.  Lots of contributors…. Lofton, Talley, Biscuit, Etc.

 

This team is deep but lacking in high end talent.  Really, we have Josh and Diggs…. Generational talents, after that there is no one on the roster that terrifies anyone.

 

We need (like we had back then) one or two more superstars .  You want a Super Bowl?  We need a game wrecker, someone like Diggs or Allen that, game plan or not, no one can do a damn thing about it.

 

My belief is that if any one of the following players contribute in a dominant, game altering way, we will win a Superbowl.

 

1) Rousseau 

2)Oliver

3) Cook

4) Kincaid 

 

Will one of them step it up? If so who?

 

If not, is there anyone else?

 

Can Allen and Diggs do it alone?

 

 

 

 

[TOboy]

Von can still be that guy if he’s healthy.

[0017]

KINGcaid! For sure! I just came up with that name by the way 😊

Edited September 6, 2023 by 0017

[Billzebub]

I agree and considered it…..:forgot to roll it into my question.   I think we get that from him part time and not long term which is why he didn’t make the list.

[maddenboy]

i think you gotta draft them.

 

otherwise they are rentals.  hired guns.   And even then, you can usually only afford to add one.  or none at all.

 

but bottom line:  yes.  we do not have the number of talented game-changing players that winning teams usually have.

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by maddenboy

[SCBills]

You’re certainly not wrong.

 

Aside from Tom Brady led teams..

 

Chiefs ‘20

 

Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Jones

 

Rams ‘22 

 

Donald, Ramsey, Von, Kupp

 

Chiefs ‘23

 

Mahomes, Kelce, Jones

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

You’re certainly not wrong.

 

Aside from Tom Brady led teams..

 

Chiefs ‘20

 

Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Jones

 

Rams ‘22 

 

Donald, Ramsey, Von, Kupp

 

Chiefs ‘23

 

Mahomes, Kelce, Jones

 

 

Even Brady led teams..

 Patriots - Edelman, Gronk, Brady

01-04 Patriots - Brady, Law, Harrison 

Bucs - the team was just loaded and just needed a QB.

[Billzebub]

I like that there is a general agreement on the topic premise.

 

I like that there are multiple players that have the pedigree or potential.

 

I hate that we don’t know who it is or if  they are even on the team.

[Augie]

We need one guy on the roster to become known as a super star. 

[Billzebub]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

We need one guy on the roster to become known as a super star. 

 We need one… maybe two more guys on this roster to become  super stars, Josh and Stefon are there.  Von is supposed to be that guy but two ACL injuries later and  I think he becomes a strong contributor. 
 

It’s imperative that someone else steps up.  

[Simon Says]

"Super Star " is a subjective term and everyone has a different definition of what a "Super Star is" .

It comes down to how a team builds value with the salary cap. Draft well and optimize production from rookie contracts  so you don't "over pay" in free agency.

Besides Josh and Diggs which current Bills qualify ? Milano? Poyer , Hyde and White? Bass? Von?

[Drew21PA]

Duh

 

why does everyone forget Matt Milano 

[Rigotz]

Milano was an All-Pro and can be a game wrecker…

 

Von is a hall of famer…

 

Are they not enough?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

46 minutes ago, Billzebub said:

I’m trying to look objectively at our team.  I’m older so I was around for the early 90’s superbowl teams.  We had Andre, Jim, Thurman and Bruce.  Lots of contributors…. Lofton, Talley, Biscuit, Etc.

 

This team is deep but lacking in high end talent.  Really, we have Josh and Diggs…. Generational talents, after that there is no one on the roster that terrifies anyone.

 

We need (like we had back then) one or two more superstars .  You want a Super Bowl?  We need a game wrecker, someone like Diggs or Allen that, game plan or not, no one can do a damn thing about it.

 

My belief is that if any one of the following players contribute in a dominant, game altering way, we will win a Superbowl.

 

1) Rousseau 

2)Oliver

3) Cook

4) Kincaid 

 

Will one of them step it up? If so who?

 

If not, is there anyone else?

 

Can Allen and Diggs do it alone?

 

 

 

 

I’m pushing chips to kinciad. His ability to separate on inside routes is new and looks different. 

[Bubba Gump]

Is this another closet DeAndre Hopkins thread? I heard Mike Evans is on the block? I think one of those 2 guys would've made a huge difference. But that's just me. Diggs can't do it on his own, so I'm hopeful Kincaid is the equalizer. Still a big ask for the offense. We shall wait and see. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

Duh

 

why does everyone forget Matt Milano 

Because without the 250# guy next to him you’re in for a surprise 

[Airseven]

33 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

i think you gotta draft them.

 

otherwise they are rentals.  hired guns.   And even then, you can usually only afford to add one.  or none at all.

 

but bottom line:  yes.  we do not have the number of talented game-changing players that winning teams usually have.

 

That’s right. It’s been said plenty, but the roster is what it is because Beane’s early picks haven’t reached their ceilings.
 

And in addition to being on second or third contracts, the rentals are also older and more injury prone.
 

Someone called Beane a used car salesman. That’s harsh but I get the analogy. In his defense, he’s been aggressive with the cap, but unfortunately, he’s reaching max capacity with a plateauing team. No more room for hired guns.

[Billzebub]

7 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said:

"Super Star " is a subjective term and everyone has a different definition of what a "Super Star is" .

It comes down to how a team builds value with the salary cap. Draft well and optimize production from rookie contracts  so you don't "over pay" in free agency.

Besides Josh and Diggs which current Bills qualify ? Milano? Poyer , Hyde and White? Bass? Von?

I agree in two parts… super star means different things to different people so lets look at it like this:

 

“We need a game wrecker, someone like Diggs or Allen that, game plan or not, no one can do a damn thing about it”

 

Current roster qualifiers are an open question.  Of yours listed I think Von is the only one that meets the game wrecker criteria, but I have reservations about his post surgery ability.  The others are very strong players but I don’t think they qualify ( Milano, Poyer, Hyde and White). 
 

I think we need a dependable Von or an on level contribution from Rousseau, Cook, Kincaid or Oliver but I’m open to others on the roster that can fill that void.

[Airseven]

10 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Milano was an All-Pro and can be a game wrecker…

 

Von is a hall of famer…

 

Are they not enough?

Milano is rock steady but not a game changer. I’d offer that game changers on defense are elite pass rushers or shut down corners.
 

Miller is an all-timer but the Bills got him in his twilight. Aging and injured. 
 

No, they’re not enough.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Good thing that's what Kincaid is gonna be

Also trading for Kupp would give us two more superstars and create a dynasty!

[HappyCat]

I'm expecting Cook, Kincaid and Shorter to develop into "superstars".  It's up to them, not the fans, to make their move.

[YattaOkasan]

We have seen Tre be second in DPOY. If he’s all the way back he’s an easy answer cause he’s in his prime. I also like Milano flying all over the field.  Knox has it in his ceiling to be a special player. He has shown growth over his career. Last year he was overcoming the death of his brother (example #88 of why last was such a mess). I could see another step this year from him. 
 

so that’s three more to add to your list of 4.  Cases could be made for more good players (Johnson and Davis) in their prime continuing to grow into big stars.  Yes I wish we could have more rookie contract players that are easy to project into superstars but we have elite talent at the most important position and a ton of talent in their prime. 

We have seen Tre be second in DPOY. If he’s all the way back he’s an easy answer cause he’s in his prime. I also like Milano flying all over the field.  Knox has it in his ceiling to be a special player. He has shown growth over his career. Last year he was overcoming the death of his brother (example #88 of why last was such a mess). I could see another step this year from him. 
 

so that’s three more to add to your list of 4.  Cases could be made for more good players (Johnson and Davis) in their prime continuing to grow into big stars.  Yes I wish we could have more rookie contract players that are easy to project into superstars but we have elite talent at the most important position and a ton of talent in their prime. 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Billzebub said:

I’m trying to look objectively at our team.  I’m older so I was around for the early 90’s superbowl teams.  We had Andre, Jim, Thurman and Bruce.  Lots of contributors…. Lofton, Talley, Biscuit, Etc.

 

This team is deep but lacking in high end talent.  Really, we have Josh and Diggs…. Generational talents, after that there is no one on the roster that terrifies anyone.

 

We need (like we had back then) one or two more superstars .  You want a Super Bowl?  We need a game wrecker, someone like Diggs or Allen that, game plan or not, no one can do a damn thing about it.

 

My belief is that if any one of the following players contribute in a dominant, game altering way, we will win a Superbowl.

 

1) Rousseau 

2)Oliver

3) Cook

4) Kincaid 

 

Will one of them step it up? If so who?

 

If not, is there anyone else?

 

Can Allen and Diggs do it alone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

We really don't "need" another superstar.

 

It'd be great if one steps up, though.

 

In any case, superstar is an amorphous word. Is it someone really famous? A lot of the way you get there is by winning Super Bowls.

 

Is it getting to the top 50 or so of the Top 100 list the NFL puts out every year?  In the list that came out just before last season the Bills had four guys in the top 50, including Poyer and Hyde, and the Chiefs only three.

 

In the top 100 list that came out just before the season where the Rams took the laurels, they had two in the top 50, Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey. After their SB win and just before their 5-12 season they had four, adding Kupp (legit) and Stafford. Is Stafford a superstar? A damn good player, but for my money no superstar. Winning Super Bowls adds superstars to your team by making very good players much more famous.

 

EDIT: Was Von a superstar that year for them? Certainly famous enough. Wasn't playing as well as he had when young, but still had great impact. Maybe.

 

How many superstars did Philly have the year they won it all?

 

Or the 2018 Pats outside of Brady? Was Gilmore ever a superstar? Or McCourty? Gronk at that point was famous enough but wasn't playing like a superstar anymore.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Airseven said:

Milano is rock steady but not a game changer. I’d offer that game changers on defense are elite pass rushers or shut down corners.
 

Miller is an all-timer but the Bills got him in his twilight. Aging and injured. 
 

No, they’re not enough.

 

 

Milano is a sensational player. First team all-Pro at his position a year ago. He's not famous, so if that's what's meant by superstar, fair enough. But at his position he's absolutely one of the very best. Probably not a superstar, but that's more of a weakness in the question than in our roster.

 

Miller, we don't know yet. He was producing like a superstar when healthy and playing for us. But fair enough that injuries play into it. If he plays like he did when healthy last year, yeah, he's a superstar. The defense was a ton better when he was in there. No way to know whether he'll play that way again, though.

 

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Milano was an All-Pro and can be a game wrecker…

 

Von is a hall of famer…

 

Are they not enough?

 

 

Yeah, probably. But not for those determined to hold to this theory, and there do seem to be many for whom it's an article of faith.

[Matt_In_NH]

So we are comparing this team to the 90's team that never won a SB to say what this team needs to win a SB?  More talent is always better but what is even more important is game planning, consistency, playing big in big games, in game coaching decisions, etc.    We could compare the roster to actual super bowl winners but we are Bills fans!  IMO this team can with the SB as is, not sayng they will but they have enough "talent" to win it.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Matt_In_NH

[pocoboy]

This team has the talent already. I don't think any of us can sit here and say that in the last three seasons the Bills met up against a true buzzsaw - maybe after the 2020 season vs the Chiefs, they were still trying to figure out their stature within the league. But these last two seasons were the epitome of unforced errors:

• 2021 - 13 Seconds was just a tactical disaster, they had that game won. One phase of the team showed their tenacity & determination, but the other withered on the vine. But even before that, the stretch leading up to (and including the first 3 Quarters of) the Tampa Bay game was sloppy & uninspired (9-6 loss @JAX, and obliteration by the Colts at home).
• 2022 - the overriding theme was the emotional toll of being the top dog, married with several traumatic events (Topps, Kim Pegula, Blizzard, Hamlin). The away Miami game was a harbinger, they didn't quite have their heads on straight for that, and the elements wore them down mentally. Beating the Chiefs seemed to be their Mount Everest. The team relaxed in the 2nd half of the GB game and played the @NYJ game in such a fog that Allen ended up injured while under duress trying to pull another of his heroic Houdini acts like the 13 seconds game. To impart the best possible narrative for the future, Allen's injury hampered Ken Dorsey's ability to call games that would beat the defensive formula that had proven successful in slowing down the offense. And then both Cincy games...the playoff game was an embarrassment, but one could argue their regular season match-up was headed for a similar result when Hamlin's cardiac event occurred.

It's tough to sit right here and think that this team doesn't have the level of talent necessary to get the Lombardi. They certainly have weak areas - and offensive line is one of the worst to have deficiency in. But every time this team seems to be realizing their true potential, they get a case of the yips, or ennui, or whatever, and piss it all away. I'd say the Bengals are the closest team to being that "buzzsaw" I mentioned earlier, but do I really think that man for man that team is better than Buffalo?

 

I think for this team, every week comes down to whether they are truly ready to play. Sean McDermott should probably be reading every dime store book on motivation tactics, because I feel if this team puts its mind to it, they can beat any and every team.

Edited September 6, 2023 by pocoboy

[BillsPride12]

Milano is elite

 

I still have hope Rousseau breaks out this year and can be a gamebreaker

 

I think ultimately Kincaid can be an elite weapon

 

Hopefully Torrence turns out to be an All-Pro guard 

[Sierra Foothills]

10 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

Sean McDermott should probably be reading every dime store book on motivation tactics, because I feel if this team puts its mind to it, they can beat any and every team.

 

What makes you think he hasn't?

 

Do you think he just came up with the hand clapping by himself?

 

[SCBills]

8 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Milano was an All-Pro and can be a game wrecker…

 

Von is a hall of famer…

 

Are they not enough?

I’ve never seen Milano have the impact on a game of a Chris Jones or Aaron Donald/Von Miller. 
 

Some of it may be his position. 
 

I can’t put him in the conversation.  I’m not sure that there’s any non-pass rushing LB that I would. 

[John from Riverside]

Kincaid is that superstar

[Dr. K]

9 hours ago, Billzebub said:

I’m trying to look objectively at our team.  I’m older so I was around for the early 90’s superbowl teams.  We had Andre, Jim, Thurman and Bruce.  Lots of contributors…. Lofton, Talley, Biscuit, Etc.

 

This team is deep but lacking in high end talent.  Really, we have Josh and Diggs…. Generational talents, after that there is no one on the roster that terrifies anyone.

 

We need (like we had back then) one or two more superstars .  You want a Super Bowl?  We need a game wrecker, someone like Diggs or Allen that, game plan or not, no one can do a damn thing about it.

 

My belief is that if any one of the following players contribute in a dominant, game altering way, we will win a Superbowl.

 

1) Rousseau 

2)Oliver

3) Cook

4) Kincaid 

 

Will one of them step it up? If so who?

 

If not, is there anyone else?

 

Can Allen and Diggs do it alone?

 

 

 

 

I really like your board moniker. Clever.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 hours ago, Augie said:

We need one guy on the roster to become known as a super star. 

Huh? We already have many. Allen and Diggs are top 5 and in many cases top 3 for their positions.

Miller probably is no worse than a top 10 pass rusher when healthy.

Milano is a top 5 OLB.

Rousseau, Knox, and maybe Kincaid  have a chance too.

Never bought into the Oliver hype and I dont think he will be anything but an average starter. 

Lastly Bass has a chance to be an elite PK. 

 

 

[QB Bills]

8 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Because without the 250# guy next to him you’re in for a surprise 

Genuinely curious about this comment. You think Edmunds shielded Milano and not the other way around?!?

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Huh? We already have many. Allen and Diggs are top 5 and in many cases top 3 for their positions.

Miller probably is no worse than a top 10 pass rusher when healthy.

Milano is a top 5 OLB.

Rousseau, Knox, and maybe Kincaid  have a chance too.

Never bought into the Oliver hype and I dont think he will be anything but an average starter. 

Lastly Bass has a chance to be an elite PK. 

 

 

The point he’s making is that (typically) teams have 3 superstars. 
 

We’re not talking about commercial endorsements… it’s something you just feel.  
 

Nobody feels like we have any superstars outside of Allen and Diggs.  …because we don’t coming into the season. 
 

Tre could be if he’s 100% healthy.  
 

Von could be if he’s 100% healthy.

 

Rousseau could be if he makes the jump. 
 

Kincaid could be if he breaks the rookie expectation rule for Tight Ends. 
 

Cook could become a Kamara type but we have to see it. 
 

Milano, Hyde, Poyer, Oliver, Floyd, Knox etc., are all good players.   They aren’t superstars.  
 

Milano is close, but positionally just doesn’t affect games in a way that moves the needle in the way a superstar does .. I don’t think any LB does… not Roquan Smith, not Fred Warner, not Matt Milano.   When you think 49ers, you think Deebo, Kittle, McCaffrey, Bosa etc. 
 

I won’t to hold out hope on Oliver, but at some point you are what you are. 

 

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

There's a chance Kincaid could be similar to Kelce immediately. 
 

It's also entirely possible James Cook is a legit top 10 all purpose RB

Even still, Beane should be looking to add another WR via trade.

If Mike Evans is available for a fair price, do it 

[Chaos]

9 hours ago, Drew21PA said:

Duh

 

why does everyone forget Matt Milano 

Milano is very good.  But he is not the level of player that teams modify thier game plans to take him into account. 

[MJS]

Von Miller is a superstar. He just got hurt last year, but when he played he was everything we wanted him to be. Let's see if he can get back to that this year.

 

Tre White has been an elite corner. Matt Milano is an All Pro linebacker. Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer have been elite safeties. Three of the four of these defensive players were injured last year.

 

I think we have the high end talent. They just almost all got hurt last year.

 

But I agree with the premise. A few years ago I brought up the same thing. You need at least one superstar player on each side of the ball, and one has to be the QB. Preferably two on each side. I think we pretty much have that, but last year was ridiculous with the injuries, including to Josh Allen, who suffered the elbow injury and played through it.

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Milano is very good.  But he is not the level of player that teams modify thier game plans to take him into account. 

I think you are wrong about that. I would bet money that defensive coordinators spend time accounting for him in their game plan.

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I’ve never seen Milano have the impact on a game of a Chris Jones or Aaron Donald/Von Miller. 
 

Some of it may be his position. 
 

I can’t put him in the conversation.  I’m not sure that there’s any non-pass rushing LB that I would. 

Apparently your not watching the same games as the rest of us 

[MJS]

8 hours ago, HappyCat said:

I'm expecting Cook, Kincaid and Shorter to develop into "superstars".  It's up to them, not the fans, to make their move.

Shorter?