Beane concerned with Kyle Allen?

[HOUSE]

There goes Kyle Allen's trade value

We will be lucky to receive a 3rd

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Josh Allen is like 85% of the offense. If he goes down, doesn’t matter who the backup QB is. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

26 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Josh Allen is like 85% of the offense. If he goes down, doesn’t matter who the backup QB is. 

although true, wouldn't you rather have a competent Frank Reich type of back up then the 2 incompetent scrubs presently on the roster. now, I'm not saying there is a FR type out there and available but most likely there is a bit better one they could at least bring in and fill the present void at back up QB?

 

I will reemphasis your take as far as JA going down with an injury would be near doom but I would feel a lot better with a back up other than the 2 scrubs on the roster.

[DJB]

8 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

I live outside the U.S., so I have to watch the feed from DAZN (which is awful, but that's another story)

 

This week we got the Chicago feed. The announcers were Jim Miller and some other guy. They actually did a good job focusing on both clubs, not only paying attention to the Bears.

 

But here's the interesting part. During the commercials, the feed stayed with the stadium broadcast. In one break, Miller and his partner's mics were left on and we got to hear their off air conversation. This is almost a direct quote (not sure if it was Miller or his partner who was speaking)

 

"Beane told me Allen has struggled from the very beginning. He just doesn't have what it takes / it's never gonna happen for him. He said he was very concerned."

 

Anyone else want to corroborate what I heard?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have the game recorded and I’ll be watching today or tomorrow and ill

listen for it. Any rough idea what quarter this was said at?

[BuffaloBillyG]

36 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Josh Allen is like 85% of the offense. If he goes down, doesn’t matter who the backup QB is. 

While you are correct in that is how the offense looks when Allen is out there...it would be nice to have a guy that can at least keep the Bills competitive should Josh miss time.

 

If Josh misses 10+ games, sure most teams are sunk with a backup for that long. A 2-4 game stretch? Not so much. For that little amount of time it's possible to stay in games by altering the gameplan a bit. Lean a bit more on the run game and have a game manager at QB. For example, look at what the Cowboys with Cooper Rush last year. 

 

This season ESPECIALLY with the talent of the other AFCE teams (on paper) going 0-4 over a month as opposed to a guy that can keep us even at 2-2 may be the difference between the division title and missing the playoffs all together.

[Brian Higgins hair]

I would be cutting Kyle Allen today, and picking up Will Grier tomorrow. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

9 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

I live outside the U.S., so I have to watch the feed from DAZN (which is awful, but that's another story)

 

This week we got the Chicago feed. The announcers were Jim Miller and some other guy. They actually did a good job focusing on both clubs, not only paying attention to the Bears.

 

But here's the interesting part. During the commercials, the feed stayed with the stadium broadcast. In one break, Miller and his partner's mics were left on and we got to hear their off air conversation. This is almost a direct quote (not sure if it was Miller or his partner who was speaking)

 

"Beane told me Allen has struggled from the very beginning. He just doesn't have what it takes / it's never gonna happen for him. He said he was very concerned."

 

Anyone else want to corroborate what I heard?

 

 

I don't buy it!!

 

Josh Allen has looked very good.  Granted once in awhile he's struggled, but for the most part has done well.

[DCofNC]

5 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 Yea they don't just shut down leaks in their front office and then be tossing info out to media people no matter how well they know them. They don't need to know certain things.

 

For the love, you really think GMs are not humans?  It doesn’t take a genius to see what everyone else does and for him to say something along those lines in a casual conversation would not at all surprise me.  
 

I have personally interacted with past GMs, while they were on the job, their passion is football, they talk football and yes they talk about the players.  They hear/see what fans/media say, it’s not like they are robots in a bubble.   I was speaking with a former GM and brought up a big signing and asked him point blank if he really thought it was worth it, he gave me a real answer about the player and ended it with “I hope it works out, because I’ll be out of a job if it doesn’t”.  For those that care, it did work out pretty well and he’s still out of a job 😂

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

No

 

If you tell a reporter something off the record it's not going to be repeated to a coworker, and definitely not in a professional setting w recording equipment rolling

But that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.  
 

He’s clearly not good.  It’s plain as day that we could and should upgrade.  
 

why do you think the announcer would just make this up?

[DCofNC]

25 minutes ago, Brian Higgins hair said:

I would be cutting Kyle Allen today, and picking up Will Grier tomorrow. 

Yeah.. about that.. step one, fine.  Step 2, hard pass.

33 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

While you are correct in that is how the offense looks when Allen is out there...it would be nice to have a guy that can at least keep the Bills competitive should Josh miss time.

 

If Josh misses 10+ games, sure most teams are sunk with a backup for that long. A 2-4 game stretch? Not so much. For that little amount of time it's possible to stay in games by altering the gameplan a bit. Lean a bit more on the run game and have a game manager at QB. For example, look at what the Cowboys with Cooper Rush last year. 

 

This season ESPECIALLY with the talent of the other AFCE teams (on paper) going 0-4 over a month as opposed to a guy that can keep us even at 2-2 may be the difference between the division title and missing the playoffs all together.

This is exactly right.  This offense without Allen is a bottom 10 offense, BUT if you have somebody that can at least not screw up and make the basic plays, you have a chance to win a couple games.  To me, Barkley is the better choice for that of the options we have.  The guy isn’t a world beater, but he can compete.  Kyle Allen is just not good enough.  He’s had chances on other teams and couldn’t do much there either.  He’s a better athlete and has a better arm, but he’s not a good QB.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Josh Allen is like 85% of the offense. If he goes down, doesn’t matter who the backup QB is. 

He he goes down for the season, it doesn’t matter, season is over.  If he goes down for a 1-5 games, our season isn’t over and we need a QB that can scrape together some W’s.  

[The Frankish Reich]

There's a reason they brought in Kyle Allen instead of just elevating Matt Barkley to the active roster: Allen has been pretty standard backup QB quality. Barkley has been horrible.

 

Allen, career: 7-12, 82.2 QB rating, 26 TD, 21 INT

 

Barkley:  2-5, 66.6 QB rating, 11 TD, 22 INT

 

Heaven forbid Josh misses 5 games. Depending on the part of the schedule, I could see Kyle Allen winning 2 or 3, keeping us right in the thick of the race.

 

Barkley? No.

Edited August 28, 2023 by The Frankish Reich

[machine gun kelly]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He he goes down for the season, it doesn’t matter, season is over.  If he goes down for a 1-5 games, our season isn’t over and we need a QB that can scrape together some W’s.  

A pragmatic approach to a backup is can they give you 50/50 or 2-2 in a 4 game stretch.  I don’t think we have that on our roster.  We had it with Keenum and Trubisky.

 

If I’m Beane, I’d quietly get in touch with Rivers and Ryan and see if we needed them, would they be willing to come back for a couple of games.  Covertly work then out, and keep as an insurance policy.

 

SF was looking at Rivers for the SB if they made it past Philly.  He doesn’t cost anything on the cap, but a gentleman agreement you’ll compensate handsomely if he’s needed.  You’re also motivating him to stay in shape.

 

There won’t be any real viable backups that shake loose tomorrow.  At least I don’t think so.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Josh Allen is like 85% of the offense. If he goes down, doesn’t matter who the backup QB is. 

It doesn’t have to be that way though. Obviously,  you can’t fully replace Allen but look at the 49ers last year. Or the Eagles winning a SB. jacoby Briskett was a statistically top 10 qb when he played last year. Bridgewater was out there. 
 

Barkley is one of the worst modern qbs of all time. Allen is just a JAg and there’s a reason he doesn’t last more than a year on any team. 
 

its bs to the rest of this roster to just say if Allen gets hurt, seasons over. Because if doesn’t have to be.

9 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I'm sure Fitz would sign with the Bills if they asked

I would have loved if they tried this.  He would have been one of the top backups in the league.  But Fitz has a really cushy gig. It’s gotta be tough to leave that. 

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

37 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Ehh, Kyle Allen ≠ John Allen ... Reading

 

____

 

I don't buy it!!

 

Josh Allen has looked very good.  Granted once in awhile he's struggled, but for the most part has done well.

 

1 hour ago, DJB said:

I have the game recorded and I’ll be watching today or tomorrow and ill

listen for it. Any rough idea what quarter this was said at?

It was after the INT at  3.07 in the first Q.  On the international DAZN feed.

[C.Biscuit97]

17 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

A pragmatic approach to a backup is can they give you 50/50 or 2-2 in a 4 game stretch.  I don’t think we have that on our roster.  We had it with Keenum and Trubisky.

 

If I’m Beane, I’d quietly get in touch with Rivers and Ryan and see if we needed them, would they be willing to come back for a couple of games.  Covertly work then out, and keep as an insurance policy.

 

SF was looking at Rivers for the SB if they made it past Philly.  He doesn’t cost anything on the cap, but a gentleman agreement you’ll compensate handsomely if he’s needed.  You’re also motivating him to stay in shape.

 

There won’t be any real viable backups that shake loose tomorrow.  At least I don’t think so.

Agreed with this but there is 0 chance Rivers comes back to ride the bench. Of course, he has 100 kids and might want to get away. 
 

ryan is interesting. He seemed like he wanted to keep playing but he was so bad last year. Still, he would be a big upgrade to what we have.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Who cares who the backup QB is. If Allen is out a significant amount of time it’s draft talk time.

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Who cares who the backup QB is. If Allen is out a significant amount of time it’s draft talk time.

I care because I know that some injuries won’t cause a player to miss significant time.  
 

our QB puts himself in harms way more than most.  I don’t see why we wouldn’t want a more capable backup

[Buffalo03]

36 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

There's a reason they brought in Kyle Allen instead of just elevating Matt Barkley to the active roster: Allen has been pretty standard backup QB quality. Barkley has been horrible.

 

Allen, career: 7-12, 82.2 QB rating, 26 TD, 21 INT

 

Barkley:  2-5, 66.6 QB rating, 11 TD, 22 INT

 

Heaven forbid Josh misses 5 games. Depending on the part of the schedule, I could see Kyle Allen winning 2 or 3, keeping us right in the thick of the race.

 

Barkley? No.

The bad thing is though, they could have still got a better backup than Allen. Minchew wad available at the time and to me, he's far better than both Kyle Allen and Barkley. Not sure why Beane didn't sign him

[Shaw66]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I mean whether he said it or not them being in on Lance kinda proves the point, right? 

 

I expect someone else to be on the Bills roster by the end of the week as a backup QB. Kyle Allen on the PS but possibly with him elevated week 1 to serve as the backup giving the new guy 2 full weeks to learn the offense.

 

Just reading this thread.  I think you're right.  I was stunned that they were looking at Lance; he just doesn't seem like a fit, although I suppose he's sort of like the Trubisky case.  But the fact that they were looking is what is telling.  

 

Still, I'd think that they don't want to give up on Kyle as the long-term backup.  He has the basic skills, and as has been said, Keenum didn't jump right in and pick it all up at once, either.  

 

We'll know in a day or two.  

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

Don't worry, maybe he was just referring to Josh Allen.

Probably Allen Schwartz, the 19 year old assistant to the Stabuck’s runner for the front office.  The boss needs his coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[machine gun kelly]

21 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed with this but there is 0 chance Rivers comes back to ride the bench. Of course, he has 100 kids and might want to get away. 
 

ryan is interesting. He seemed like he wanted to keep playing but he was so bad last year. Still, he would be a big upgrade to what we have.

Biscuit, sorry maybe I was ambiguous.  Work him out quietly, and if Allen goes down, we know he’s interested, and ark is fresh, so we activate him at that point.  Not riding a bench.

 
Sorry about that.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I care because I know that some injuries won’t cause a player to miss significant time.  
 

our QB puts himself in harms way more than most.  I don’t see why we wouldn’t want a more capable backup

If Josh goes down we’re done. Josh isn’t going to sit with some minor injuries. So if he’s out it’s likely months. We’re done.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If Josh goes down we’re done. Josh isn’t going to sit with some minor injuries. So if he’s out it’s likely months. We’re done.

 

There are injuries that won't keep you out long but that mean you can't play. 

 

The whole "backup QBs don't matter" thing is so tiresome. Of course it matters. 

[LabattBlue]

Doesn’t have “it”?  What does that mean?  Can’t be a starter full time?  Can’t fill in for a few games if Josh gets hurt?  Can’t be a backup even if never stepping on the field?

 

None of these doubts could have been discovered when he was playing in the NFL?

Edited August 28, 2023 by LabattBlue

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There are injuries that won't keep you out long but that mean you can't play. 

 

The whole "backup QBs don't matter" thing is so tiresome. Of course it matters. 

It actually doesn't matter for season ending injuries on a team like Buffalo. It matters for SF, which isn't so dependent on QB1. For a four-week separated shoulder or MCL sprain, it absolutely matters. But if Allen tears his ACL in week three, then the best thing that could happen would be for the Bills to Bengalize the season and get next year's version of Chase (Harrison). The entire offense revolves around Allen, just like Indy's offense revolved around Payton.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If Josh goes down we’re done. Josh isn’t going to sit with some minor injuries. So if he’s out it’s likely months. We’re done.

Some injuries may require him to miss a handful of games.  You can pretend to know that that’s not possible…. That he’ll just play through every injury that isn’t season ending…. But it’s not true.  It happened his rookie year and can happen any year.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

It actually doesn't matter for season ending injuries on a team like Buffalo. It matters for SF, which isn't so dependent on QB1. For a four-week separated shoulder or MCL sprain, it absolutely matters. But if Allen tears his ACL in week three, then the best thing that could happen would be for the Bills to Bengalize the season and get next year's version of Chase (Harrison). The entire offense revolves around Allen, just like Indy's offense revolved around Payton.

 

Nobody is disputing if Allen goes down for the season we are done. But what if he breaks a finger on his throwing hand? That is a "you can't just play with it you are going to miss at least 2 or 3 games" you want a guy who can get you through.

[DCofNC]

24 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Just reading this thread.  I think you're right.  I was stunned that they were looking at Lance; he just doesn't seem like a fit, although I suppose he's sort of like the Trubisky case.  But the fact that they were looking is what is telling.  

 

Still, I'd think that they don't want to give up on Kyle as the long-term backup.  He has the basic skills, and as has been said, Keenum didn't jump right in and pick it all up at once, either.  

 

We'll know in a day or two.  

I have a feeling we will be trading for one of the Texans back ups, to make sure we get that 3rd round comp choice.  Mills makes a lot of sense as he feels he should be able to compete against their rookie, wasn’t allowed to and probably is still pissed.  Keenan can’t be cut or they let a 3rd round pick walk away for nothing.   
 

Lance was worth a flier for a developmental project, he is basically what Allen was when he walked in, super raw athlete, all the tools, needs refinement.  McClappy probably thinks he is the reason Josh turned great, so he could do it again.   Not worth paying though.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody is disputing if Allen goes down for the season we are done. But what if he breaks a finger on his throwing hand? That is a "you can't just play with it you are going to miss at least 2 or 3 games" you want a guy who can get you through.

And that's exactly what I said! I agree with you. Kyle Allen gets you to 0-3 over a three-game stretch, pretty much, unless the Bills get lucky with ST plays and defensive TDs.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Some injuries may require him to miss a handful of games.  You can pretend to know that that’s not possible…. That he’ll just play through every injury that isn’t season ending…. But it’s not true.  It happened his rookie year and can happen any year.  

Rather invest in better start OL and depth OL then pay a good backup QB. 

[The Frankish Reich]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

And that's exactly what I said! I agree with you. Kyle Allen gets you to 0-3 over a three-game stretch, pretty much, unless the Bills get lucky with ST plays and defensive TDs.

Kyle Allen isn't totally incompetent. You'd hope to go 2-1, might go 1-2. But the reason he has a job is because you really want to avoid bringing in the total replacement level guy who is likely to go 0-3.

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 Kyle Allen gets you to 0-3 over a three-game stretch

I just don't buy this.  The reality is that as soon as McDermott is addressing the team following a J Allen injury, McDermott is telling everyone on the team they have to step it.   He's telling Dorsey, "you MUST have a game plan that protects Kyle Allen.  He needs easy reads, easy throws, etc.  You MUST have a running game."   He's telling the DC (hah!), "you CANNOT give up more than 15 points this week."   And all of those messages are getting passed down through the lines of communication. 

 

His message is "complementary football," and when one guy goes down, someone else has to step up.   He has built his team to respond to challenges.   Josh is down for three weeks, McDermott is preparing his team to win three games, and his team will respond.  May not win three, but they will not roll over.  

 

So, I just don't think the world will end if Kyle Allen is playing QB.  Guys have to step up.   

 

J Allen out for 6-8 games, it's a different story.  But chances are very slim that any backup is replacing Josh for half a season and the team keeps winning.

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

Ooops!

I wish they’d make a move.  I’ll take PJ Walker over these guys.  Hell, I’d take a chad Kelly over these bums 

The Chad Kelly hate is real on this forum!! He may have personal issues, but the guy can play football. Maybe he's exorcised his personal demons🤷

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It doesn’t have to be that way though. Obviously,  you can’t fully replace Allen but look at the 49ers last year. Or the Eagles winning a SB. jacoby Briskett was a statistically top 10 qb when he played last year. Bridgewater was out there. 
 

Barkley is one of the worst modern qbs of all time. Allen is just a JAg and there’s a reason he doesn’t last more than a year on any team. 
 

its bs to the rest of this roster to just say if Allen gets hurt, seasons over. Because if doesn’t have to be.

I would have loved if they tried this.  He would have been one of the top backups in the league.  But Fitz has a really cushy gig. It’s gotta be tough to leave that. 

the problem is how our team and offense is built. It’s not like we are the Niners, where they can plug in a semi-competent scrub, since their offense is entirely run-based with playaction. 
 

I just don’t think it is worth fretting over backup QB’s. Outside of a few, they are all going to be in the same boat. For us to win some games with a backup, we would have to win with defense and a strong run game. 

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Rather invest in better start OL and depth OL then pay a good backup QB. 

You’ve moved the goalposts of our conversation while putting words in my mouth.  I’m not talking about paying a backup QB anymore than Kyle Allen.  

 

You asked who cares about the backup QB and are operating under the assumption that if Allen gets hurt, the season is over.  It’s a very flawed way of thinking.  I would hope that our GM doesn’t share the same shortsighted view.  
 

I didn’t say we had to pay a good backup.  I think there are other minimum salary QBs that can help us win games better than Kyle Allen can.  I think that just about any mobile QB would give us a better chance to win than Kyle Allen.  Maybe I’m being harsh, but I think he’s terrible
 

[krf139]

Was he talking about Josh or Kyle?

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I just don't buy this.  The reality is that as soon as McDermott is addressing the team following a J Allen injury, McDermott is telling everyone on the team they have to step it.   He's telling Dorsey, "you MUST have a game plan that protects Kyle Allen.  He needs easy reads, easy throws, etc.  You MUST have a running game."   He's telling the DC (hah!), "you CANNOT give up more than 15 points this week."   And all of those messages are getting passed down through the lines of communication. 

 

His message is "complementary football," and when one guy goes down, someone else has to step up.   He has built his team to respond to challenges.   Josh is down for three weeks, McDermott is preparing his team to win three games, and his team will respond.  May not win three, but they will not roll over.  

 

So, I just don't think the world will end if Kyle Allen is playing QB.  Guys have to step up.   

 

J Allen out for 6-8 games, it's a different story.  But chances are very slim that any backup is replacing Josh for half a season and the team keeps winning.

EVERY game is going to matter this year.  If another backup could win ONE game that Kyle Allen couldn’t, it could save the entire season.   
 

I think there’s a better chance of Kyle Allen going 0-3 than winning a game. we saw how he looked playing with many starters vs the vaunted Colt defense

[Don Otreply]

Imo, Beane very likely never said this to the guy on the record, and by chance he did off the record mention this, I suspect the guy broke trust with Beane by saying on air.  Beane has never openly demeaned any of his rostered players, he either cut or traded players that haven’t made the measure for whatever reason, Beane doesn’t trash his guys publicly. 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I just don't buy this.  The reality is that as soon as McDermott is addressing the team following a J Allen injury, McDermott is telling everyone on the team they have to step it.   He's telling Dorsey, "you MUST have a game plan that protects Kyle Allen.  He needs easy reads, easy throws, etc.  You MUST have a running game."   He's telling the DC (hah!), "you CANNOT give up more than 15 points this week."   And all of those messages are getting passed down through the lines of communication. 

 

His message is "complementary football," and when one guy goes down, someone else has to step up.   He has built his team to respond to challenges.   Josh is down for three weeks, McDermott is preparing his team to win three games, and his team will respond.  May not win three, but they will not roll over.  

 

So, I just don't think the world will end if Kyle Allen is playing QB.  Guys have to step up.   

 

J Allen out for 6-8 games, it's a different story.  But chances are very slim that any backup is replacing Josh for half a season and the team keeps winning.

Agreed.

A while back I took a look at how teams do when they have to bring in the classic "emergency QB." The guy signed off the street who has a week to learn the offense. We've seen a few of those here: Derek Anderson (horrid, but on a horrid offense), Thad Lewis (better than expected) come to mind. Overall, even these emergency/almost no preparation time guys actually win about a third of the time. My conclusions were:

- there's a lot of randomness in the NFL. Any given Sunday and all that. 

- we tend to overrate the value of a backup QB. There's a huge chasm between Josh Allen and Kyle Allen. Not much of a gap between Kyle Allen and another journeyman, Jordan Allen, who came into Niners camp this year as QB #4 - basically freely available talent. (I guess he'll now be their #3 with Lance traded).

 

A few teams every year are lucky enough (or stupid enough to commit serious money to a backup QB? It's a good question) to have an unusually good backup. Mostly you are looking at the revolving door of Kyle Allens and Jordan Allens. And if you look closely at results over the course of a game or three, you won't find any significant difference between the guys you pay a little more (Kyle) vs. a little less (Jordan)

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think there are other minimum salary QBs that can help us win games better than Kyle Allen can.

Yep. My point, but you said it with a lot fewer words!