Cap space

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 hour ago, Toyo321 said:

We are at -41 million already for next year. Not good,  that is why they need to pull a LA Rams this year and get a STUD RB and what ever LB some way, somehow,  this year before the pieces to the puzzle all come apart for this team.  Von Miller's Contract killed this team.

I hated the Von signing when it happened due to age and the amount of money.  Hate it even worse now.

[TheWeatherMan]

If we really want to free up cap space, be like the Jets and pay salaries off the books.  Modify Josh’s contract to reduce his salary by $15M per year…good to go.  

[Beast]

4 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

At this point they need to generate space for guys they currently have.   No team has zero holes.

It’s amazing that people don’t get that. You are 100% correct.

[SCBills]

I may have issues with how Beane does some things, but managing the cap isn’t one of them.  
 

Im sure he’ll figure it out.  He’s lined up contracts for a reason and acquired a bunch of draft picks next year, also, for a reason. 
 

Could very well be the last go around for Hyde, Poyer and Morse this year. 
 

I don’t know that the Bills will want to stand pat on Dawkins and White cap-wise, so it may be a situation where one or both are extended at some point to create cap space next year  or potentially also playing their last season here. 
 

Those are the five question marks, imo, after the season. 
 

Also.. does anyone know what the effects of a Milano trade next year would be on the cap?  
 

Edited August 23, 2023 by SCBills

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I may have issues with how Beane does some things, but managing the cap isn’t one of them.  
 

Im sure he’ll figure it out.  He’s lined up contracts for a reason and acquired a bunch of draft picks next year, also, for a reason. 
 

Could very well be the last go around for Hyde, Poyer and Morse this year. 
 

I don’t know that the Bills will want to stand pat on Dawkins and White cap-wise, so it may be a situation where one or both are extended at some point to create cap space next year  or potentially also playing their last season here. 
 

Those are the five question marks, imo, after the season. 
 

Also.. does anyone know what the effects of a Milano trade next year would be on the cap?  
 

 

Milano has a huge amount of dead cap next year.  He's not going anywhere.  Your points about next year though have a lot of potential.

 

I'm a compromiser in life so I see one of Dawkins/White as a potential trade/cap casualty.  However, if they both play well it will be a great

problem to have.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The Bills have somewhere around 2.2M in cap space at this time with top 51.  After next week they need 53 plus IR guys, plus practice squad.  They also need 5-6M for in season moves.  There is room for some movement when they cut to 53 depending on who they cut but more than likely they will need to restructure or extend someone with decent base salary.  The top options are Dawkins (8.8M), Tre (8.6M), D Jones (6.75M), Morse, (6.64M) Taron Johnson (5.5M).   I bet they extend Dawkins but I would rather keep Jones and T Johnson longer, any other thoughts?

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

 

A few of those in the top 51 might not make the roster. 

 

If so, they would likely be replaced by cheaper guys.

 

The fewer of those chances to clear cap space are used this year, the better for the team's long-term cap viability.

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

A few of those in the top 51 might not make the roster. 

 

If so, they would likely be replaced by cheaper guys.

 

The fewer of those chances to clear cap space are used this year, the better for the team's long-term cap viability.

 

I always like to look at the Spotrac roster at the guys below the 51 cutoff and count how many are going to make the team in my view.

Of course, 2 will be the 52nd and 53rd roster guys.

 

As I see it those below the Top 51 are:  Hamlin, Williams, Shakir, Benford, and Morris.

Add to that list a good chance of some of these guys:  Isabella, Shorter, Van Demark and a couple of other maybes.

 

Then you got to look at the Top 51 and cut guys to make room for the below guys.

It's a fun thing to do.  I'm retired, so I got the time.  LOL.

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

 

that can wait till next offseason. I see no one on the team that must be extended now

 

the holes we have are large and no team thinking they are competing for SB should or could have. MLB and OL

 

 

 

They need space this year.  Something has to happen

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Also.. does anyone know what the effects of a Milano trade next year would be on the cap?

A Milano trade?

34 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I always like to look at the Spotrac roster at the guys below the 51 cutoff and count how many are going to make the team in my view.

Of course, 2 will be the 52nd and 53rd roster guys.

 

As I see it those below the Top 51 are:  Hamlin, Williams, Shakir, Benford, and Morris.

Add to that list a good chance of some of these guys:  Isabella, Shorter, Van Demark and a couple of other maybes.

 

Then you got to look at the Top 51 and cut guys to make room for the below guys.

It's a fun thing to do.  I'm retired, so I got the time.  LOL.

That is definitely part of it....there are not a lot of target in the top 51 that result in big savings though....it gets better if you spread it over two years but that just makes next year a little worse

[ColoradoBills]

13 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

A Milano trade?

That is definitely part of it....there are not a lot of target in the top 51 that result in big savings though....it gets better if you spread it over two years but that just makes next year a little worse

 

No there isn't.  Beane doesn't need that much to stay under the cap though.

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

A Milano trade?

That is definitely part of it....there are not a lot of target in the top 51 that result in big savings though....it gets better if you spread it over two years but that just makes next year a little worse

If tough decisions have to be made, it’s a lot easier to move Milano for a pick and replace him with Williams/Bernard at their natural position than say LT or CB. 
 

It’s not ideal, but off-seasons are likely going to have an Edmunds like loss (at least) more often than not moving forward.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by SCBills

[Turk71]

Jones and Johnson are good restructure targets. 

[John from Riverside]

34 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If tough decisions have to be made, it’s a lot easier to move Milano for a pick and replace him with Williams/Bernard at their natural position than say LT or CB. 
 

It’s not ideal, but off-seasons are likely going to have an Edmunds like loss (at least) more often than not moving forward.

 

 

These things will have a way of working themselves out
 

I think it is far more likely that Dorian Williams is playing the mike next year then we move our star linebacker, Matt Milano

[Dr.Sack]

Extend Allen and modify contract. 

[BarleyNY]

10 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The Bills have somewhere around 2.2M in cap space at this time with top 51.  After next week they need 53 plus IR guys, plus practice squad.  They also need 5-6M for in season moves.  There is room for some movement when they cut to 53 depending on who they cut but more than likely they will need to restructure or extend someone with decent base salary.  The top options are Dawkins (8.8M), Tre (8.6M), D Jones (6.75M), Morse, (6.64M) Taron Johnson (5.5M).   I bet they extend Dawkins but I would rather keep Jones and T Johnson longer, any other thoughts?

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

Yes. It’s a good topic for discussion. I’ve been kicking the can down the road on It because there are not a lot of great options. Tre makes the most sense to me since he is signed through 2025, but the Bills need more than the $5M or so they can get from his contract.

 

All of the other players you mention are the logical places to look, but all are near the end of their deals. Johnson, Dawkins and Morse are signed through 2024 and Jones only for this season. Restructures with void years (Dawkins already has them) could be used or legitimate extensions would have to be done. I don’t know which contracts could be extended by the Bills without the player approval. No way to know without having access to it. If they have a say, then I’d think they’d want extensions rather than a restructure.

 

Which of those players would you extend? Morse is at the end. No way. Extending Dawkins scares me so I’d pass on that too unless I could get away with guaranteeing next year in exchange for cap relief. I doubt that would fly tho. I guess Johnson is a decent possibility. He just turned 27 so he should have some years left. Jones is tough due to his age. We’d have to guarantee money next season. I wouldn’t go further than that. That’s all I got unless they think they can get away with Bates at C and cut Morse. I would not do that at this point however. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by BarleyNY

[BarleyNY]

8 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I think Poona Ford gets cut and Boogie gets traded

That would actually lose us cap space due to guaranteed money (Ford, $1.5M), dead cap (Basham $362k) and the replacement salaries of players taking their roster spots. 

24 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Extend Allen and modify contract. 

That won’t work. It is already maxed out in that way. 

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, jahnyc said:

I would be surprised if they extended Tre or Dawkins.  I think there are reasons why they were not restructured this offseason, including to provide potential flexibility for compensation reductions or release next off season if they do not play well (or at least at their level of compensation).  

No way I'm extending Tre or Dion. I'm not even sure Dawkins will be here next year. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Morris retirement, Poyer cut and restructures to Deon and Trey and they are just fine. Von is really on the last year of his deal as his dead cap hit after 2024 is nonexistent 

Allen is now the tenth highest paid QB in the league.

I can easily live with a bunch of draft picks on D since the Vets have a hard time with a QB with a pulse anyway. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat

[BarleyNY]

42 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Von is really on the last year of his deal as his dead cap hit after 2024 is nonexistent 

 

This is not even remotely correct. Miller is not his last year. Due to his contract guarantees and structure the Bills have to keep him through next year, 2024. Most of his salary that season is guaranteed anyway. They can release him before the 2025 season, but he will have a large dead cap hit of $15.4M. I expect that they will designate him a 6/1 cut to kick some of that into 2025. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/von-miller-7717/

Edited August 24, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Matt_In_NH]

10 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

That would actually lose us cap space due to guaranteed money (Ford, $1.5M), dead cap (Basham $362k) and the replacement salaries of players taking their roster spots. 

That won’t work. It is already maxed out in that way. 

This is exactly my point of making the thread....the Bills have some knobs to turn but not as many as years past and ones you may not want to turn.

[BarleyNY]

2 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

This is exactly my point of making the thread....the Bills have some knobs to turn but not as many as years past and ones you may not want to turn.

Totally agree. They have made all of the easy moves available to create cap space. Now it gets dicier. 

[Solomon Grundy]

16 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I’m thinking this is Morse’s last season.  They’re grooming Bates as the team’s next center. 

Morse, IMO, is the elephant in the room... And I'm not speaking literally 😎

[BarleyNY]

11 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Morse, IMO, is the elephant in the room... And I'm not speaking literally 😎

Yup. I think if Bates was playing better Morse would be out the door next week. Morse’s play has been steadily declining over the last few years, but I don’t see Bates really stepping up either. The Bills brass probably won’t want to change up Allen’s center just prior to such an important season. I think he stays one more season, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he didn’t. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by BarleyNY

[78thealltimegreat]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

This is not even remotely correct. Miller is not his last year. Due to his contract guarantees and structure the Bills have to keep him through next year, 2024. Most of his salary that season is guaranteed anyway. They can release him before the 2025 season, but he will have a large dead cap hit of $15.4M. I expect that they will designate him a 6/1 cut to kick some of that into 2025. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/von-miller-7717/

That’s what I meant even though I worded it wrong 2024 is basically his last year and his dead cap hit is literally nothing compared to what the cap will be come that time in addition Diggs ironically is around 2025 very tradeable if they wanted as well. They have 10 picks next year so replacing these guys isn’t that difficult if Beane hits on his picks  

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Yup. I think if Bates was playing better Morse would be out the door next week. Morse’s play has been steadily declining over the last few years, but I don’t see Bates really stepping up either. The Bills brass probably won’t want to change up Allen’s center just prior to such an important season. I think he stays one more season, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he didn’t. 

If you want to solve the cap problem this year without taking from future cap, Morse is a cut target...I floated that a while back and got lambasted even though like you I figure he sticks this year.   If he was to get cut we know why.....I do wonder if they opt to keep some surprise guys over some who are schedule for a couple million to save here and there a little bit.  They don't have to and probably won't.

[BarleyNY]

13 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

That’s what I meant even though I worded it wrong 2024 is basically his last year and his dead cap hit is literally nothing compared to what the cap will be come that time in addition Diggs ironically is around 2025 very tradeable if they wanted as well. They have 10 picks next year so replacing these guys isn’t that difficult if Beane hits on his picks  

 

$15.4M is still a lot of dead cap. Currently the Bills only have $5.2M total dead cap for this season, although that will probably grow a little after the cut down. $15.4M should be around 6.5% of the 2024 cap allowance, which should be around $240M. To put that into perspective, only 4 Bills players account for more than 5% of this year’s cap. That is why I think they’ll designate him a 6/1 cut. 

[YattaOkasan]

This thread is weird.  Not looking through it all.  Over the cap has a very different number with 6 mil available.   Beane likely has different number.  Also were very unlikely to cut guys with big dead cap like Poona Ford or Mitch Morse.  What are we doing here?  They may extend Jones but I think they dont need to do much.  

[Logic]

[ColoradoBills]

31 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

This thread is weird.  Not looking through it all.  Over the cap has a very different number with 6 mil available.   Beane likely has different number.  Also were very unlikely to cut guys with big dead cap like Poona Ford or Mitch Morse.  What are we doing here?  They may extend Jones but I think they dont need to do much.  

 

I will agree with the bolded.  Both Spotrac and OTC are "unofficial" numbers.  Although, OTC does not add money to the Top 51 that Spotrac does.

Example:  Dorian Williams is not in the Top 51 but Spotrac adds $228k in Top 51 cap hit for his 2023 cap hit IF CUT.

We all know Dorian Williams will make the team and between what I just mentioned and him replacing a higher paid Top 51 player Beane is

not as bad off as some think.  I tried talking about this in a post earlier in this thread.

 

I do think that Beane is closer to having only do some small moves, after all the dust settles, than some fans think he has to do.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Man, now I’m depressed.

 

The future is NOW

[Tuco]

5 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I will agree with the bolded.  Both Spotrac and OTC are "unofficial" numbers.  Although, OTC does not add money to the Top 51 that Spotrac does.

Example:  Dorian Williams is not in the Top 51 but Spotrac adds $228k in Top 51 cap hit for his 2023 cap hit IF CUT.

We all know Dorian Williams will make the team and between what I just mentioned and him replacing a higher paid Top 51 player Beane is

not as bad off as some think.  I tried talking about this in a post earlier in this thread.

 

I do think that Beane is closer to having only do some small moves, after all the dust settles, than some fans think he has to do.

Agreed. We may need a little more space but it's not as much as a lot of people think.

[Simon]

10 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I think if Bates was playing better Morse would be out the door next week. Morse’s play has been steadily declining over the last few years,

 

I'm sorry, but this is 100% hogwash.

[Punching Bag]

14 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I'm sorry, but this is 100% hogwash.

 

I agree with Simon.  Bates was resigned by Bills matching Bears contract to be 6th lineman so there was one less lineman needed to be active.

Morse’s play has degraded due to trying to trying to compensate for guard play.

[Simon]

51 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Morse’s play has degraded due to trying to trying to compensate for guard play.

 

Morse is the same guy guy he was when he signed with the Bills, his play has not degraded at all, imo.

 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

I'm sorry, but this is 100% hogwash.

Nah. If Bates was up to Morse’s level of play at this time, they’d move on from Morse. Matching the Bears offer for Bates was a mistake. He isn’t worth the contract he’s on. As for Morse, he has slipped a bit and he is already 31. I think he sticks this year but that’s probably it. Remember, it is always better to move on from a a player a year early than a year late. But his contract was front loaded so he’s not getting all that much cash. Still, they need to make cap room and moving on from him would certainly help. 

[Simon]

5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

As for Morse, he has slipped a bit and he is already 31..... Still, they need to make cap room and moving on from him would certainly help. 

 

Morse hasn't slipped a bit and has been the Bills most consistently good player on the OLine since he arrived here.

Cutting a guy like that to save money is the best way to make your team worse.

[newcam2012]

What's all this talk about?

 

The Bills roster is solid. Beane has built a great team surrounded by a great coach and assistants. 

 

Folks no need to make drastic changes. No panic, concern, or worries. 

 

Beane and McD have built a helluva team. Top 5 in the league. Many here are are concern mode. Sure I get it but I also have 6 years of greatness in Beane and McD. They know more than the fans. 

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

Morse hasn't slipped a bit and has been the Bills most consistently good player on the OLine since he arrived here.

Cutting a guy like that to save money is the best way to make your team worse.

Morse is solid. He is a nice piece to the already strong Buffalo oline. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

Morse hasn't slipped a bit and has been the Bills most consistently good player on the OLine since he arrived here.

Cutting a guy like that to save money is the best way to make your team worse.

Dawkins has been the best OL on the Bills for years. He’s been above average, which is sadly the best we’ve had. Morse has been a very average C, but he brought stability to the interior OL when we desperately needed it. That’s why the Bills overpaid for him at the time and why that was okay. He is not overpaid at today’s MV, but he has seen his best days. I’m not advocating for moving on from him now. We have no better option.

[Orlando Tim]

The position with some talent that might shake loose that we need is MLB. There are not 64 good OTs on planet so getting one later is unlikely. 

[Matt_In_NH]

10 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I agree with Simon.  Bates was resigned by Bills matching Bears contract to be 6th lineman so there was one less lineman needed to be active.

Morse’s play has degraded due to trying to trying to compensate for guard play.

I agree Morse is staying on the team but I don't understand the bolded.  Every NFL team gets to have a 48 active player if its an 8th OL which most teams including the Bills take full advantage of.  Bates is a versatile backup but it does not change how many OL the Bills carry or activate on gameday