Cap space

[Matt_In_NH]

The Bills have somewhere around 2.2M in cap space at this time with top 51.  After next week they need 53 plus IR guys, plus practice squad.  They also need 5-6M for in season moves.  There is room for some movement when they cut to 53 depending on who they cut but more than likely they will need to restructure or extend someone with decent base salary.  The top options are Dawkins (8.8M), Tre (8.6M), D Jones (6.75M), Morse, (6.64M) Taron Johnson (5.5M).   I bet they extend Dawkins but I would rather keep Jones and T Johnson longer, any other thoughts?

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

[NewEra]

Agreed. I’d extend daquan 1st, then Taron.  I don’t think I I’d tough Tre or dion at this stage.  Let’s see how they perform this year

[ddaryl]

32 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The Bills have somewhere around 2.2M in cap space at this time with top 51.  After next week they need 53 plus IR guys, plus practice squad.  They also need 5-6M for in season moves.  There is room for some movement when they cut to 53 depending on who they cut but more than likely they will need to restructure or extend someone with decent base salary.  The top options are Dawkins (8.8M), Tre (8.6M), D Jones (6.75M), Morse, (6.64M) Taron Johnson (5.5M).   I bet they extend Dawkins but I would rather keep Jones and T Johnson longer, any other thoughts?

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

 

At this point all Salary cap space should be used to bring in solid players at MLB and OL when teams start cutting down.

[SCBills]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

 

At this point all Salary cap space should be used to bring in solid players at MLB and OL when teams start cutting down.

 

Solid players, especially at OT, aren't going to be available for us via waivers - and teams don't just cut quality OL.

 

If I were Beane, I'd be making Shakir, Boogie (or) Epenesa available for player swaps.  

 

In terms of creating cap space, I'd do the least we can do to get cap compliant with some wiggle room.  Outside of Jones/Johnson, I don't have much of an appetite to restructure anyone else given our future cap reality relative to their play on the field (White/Dawkins). 

[warrior9]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Solid players, especially at OT, aren't going to be available for us via waivers - and teams don't just cut quality OL.

 

If I were Beane, I'd be making Shakir, Boogie (or) Epenesa available for player swaps.  

 

In terms of creating cap space, I'd do the least we can do to get cap compliant with some wiggle room.  Outside of Jones/Johnson, I don't have much of an appetite to restructure anyone else given our future cap reality relative to their play on the field (White/Dawkins). 

What value do you think a guy with 10 catches and 161 yards in his career has? 

Edited August 23, 2023 by warrior9

[Matt_In_NH]

12 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

At this point all Salary cap space should be used to bring in solid players at MLB and OL when teams start cutting down.

At this point they need to generate space for guys they currently have.   No team has zero holes.

[SCBills]

Just now, warrior9 said:

What value do you think a guy with 10 catches and 161 yards in his career has? 

 

6/7 Rd Pick or player swap for a fringe starter/quality backup level player 

[juno999]

Extending T. Johnson seems the safest move to create cap space.  Probably need an additional move though.  I like Jones but it may be Dawkins who they extend.  

[warrior9]

14 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

6/7 Rd Pick or player swap for a fringe starter/quality backup level player 

Ok, you said play swap. 

 

So to your logic: a 6/7 rd pick = a fringe starter / quality back up? interesting. Especially for a guy that has *potential* and was a 5th round pick a year ago. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by warrior9

[jahnyc]

I would be surprised if they extended Tre or Dawkins.  I think there are reasons why they were not restructured this offseason, including to provide potential flexibility for compensation reductions or release next off season if they do not play well (or at least at their level of compensation).  

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

Ok, you said play swap. 

 

So to your logic: a 6/7 rd pick = a fringe starter / quality back up? interesting. Especially for a guy that has *potential* and was a 5th round pick a year ago. 

 

Are you a Shakir hater or defender... not sure what your angle is by getting defensive over this.

 

Yes, I think Khalil Shakir could be used in a player swap for for a WR needy team that could have a backup who is an upgrade for what we have at a position of weakness.   If we flip him for a pick, recent 5th rounder with one year under his belt.. flashed a bit, but is still an unknown.. 6th/7th round pick.  

 

I also think we could flip Day 3 picks for players as well.. but I, personally, would rather player swaps of players in positions we're crowded in than sending away picks. 

[DCofNC]

5 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

I would be surprised if they extended Tre or Dawkins.  I think there are reasons why they were not restructured this offseason, including to provide potential flexibility for compensation reductions or release next off season if they do not play well (or at least at their level of compensation).  

Agreed, both need to be looked at very hard to determine if they do in fact justify bringing back.  I expect this to be the last year of Tre and Dawkins is questionable, his appetite for the game seems to be less than his actual appetite.

[warrior9]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Are you a Shakir hater or defender... not sure what your angle is by getting defensive over this.

 

Yes, I think Khalil Shakir could be used in a player swap for for a WR needy team that could have a backup who is an upgrade for what we have at a position of weakness.   If we flip him for a pick, recent 5th rounder with one year under his belt.. flashed a bit, but is still an unknown.. 6th/7th round pick.  

 

I also think we could flip Day 3 picks for players as well.. but I, personally, would rather player swaps of players in positions we're crowded in than sending away picks. 

I like Shakir. I think your logic is way off. People just throw players out that they think are good and assume they have value. 

I'm not getting defensive, your point is illogical. No NFL team is trading a "fringe starting OL" for a second year WR that was a 5th round pick with 10 catches. 

[Airseven]

Extending Jones at this stage makes sense. Committing to Dawkins does not, unless the structuring still allows the Bills to cut him next year for substantial cap savings.

[Simon Says]

38 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Solid players, especially at OT, aren't going to be available for us via waivers - and teams don't just cut quality OL.

 

If I were Beane, I'd be making Shakir, Boogie (or) Epenesa available for player swaps.  

 

In terms of creating cap space, I'd do the least we can do to get cap compliant with some wiggle room.  Outside of Jones/Johnson, I don't have much of an appetite to restructure anyone else given our future cap reality relative to their play on the field (White/Dawkins). 

How about trading Lawson?

[Process]

Would extending Jones free up cap? I'm surprised that hasn't been done already, thought it was a given this off-season just based on play, regardless of cap. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The Bills have somewhere around 2.2M in cap space at this time with top 51.  After next week they need 53 plus IR guys, plus practice squad.  They also need 5-6M for in season moves.  There is room for some movement when they cut to 53 depending on who they cut but more than likely they will need to restructure or extend someone with decent base salary.  The top options are Dawkins (8.8M), Tre (8.6M), D Jones (6.75M), Morse, (6.64M) Taron Johnson (5.5M).   I bet they extend Dawkins but I would rather keep Jones and T Johnson longer, any other thoughts?

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

All the players on IR are already included in the Cap Space on Spotrac.

This means what's left is the 53 (2 added low $ players) and the PS (which will be somewhere around $3.7M).

 

First, adding the 2 players will most likely be offset by releasing players now included in the "top 51" with rookies and others not included

in the top 51.  There also is dead money for some of these Top 51 players but typically it kind of offsets each other.

 

What I'm getting at is that the $2.2M cap space minus the $3.7M PS cap hit leaves Beane over the cap by around $2M when all the dust settles.

A couple of small "restructures" can easily be made to get under.  As for how much he needs to get through the season, other small moves

can be done when needed.  So, I don't see any "big moves" necessarily being needed.  Not saying there won't be one, just saying it is not

mandatory.

 

I do believe there could be a cut/trade (or even 2) that may surprise some fans.  Beane knows he is tight this year (and next), so it will be

interesting (for those of us who follow this stuff) as to how he handles things by next week.

[Manther]

29 minutes ago, Process said:

Would extending Jones free up cap? I'm surprised that hasn't been done already, thought it was a given this off-season just based on play, regardless of cap. 

I believe it is the last year of Jones' contract.  He originally signed a two year deal.  I am surprised they didn't extend him "to keep" him longer.  There must be reason or it would have already been done.  Maybe he does not want to extend his deal.  Also, the Bills MAY think they can resign him this offseason (if they want to) for less money.  Less money at that position at his age is a possibility.  

 

IMO Jones is very good and very important to our team, fyi.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, juno999 said:

Extending T. Johnson seems the safest move to create cap space.  Probably need an additional move though.  I like Jones but it may be Dawkins who they extend.  

 

I am a big Taron Johnson fan and was going to get jersey before number changed.  Had an order which I was able to cancel.

 

Defense is going to change with Edmunds gone and would make sense to wait until they see how well he performs in it.

[SoonerBillsFan]

55 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

All the players on IR are already included in the Cap Space on Spotrac.

This means what's left is the 53 (2 added low $ players) and the PS (which will be somewhere around $3.7M).

 

First, adding the 2 players will most likely be offset by releasing players now included in the "top 51" with rookies and others not included

in the top 51.  There also is dead money for some of these Top 51 players but typically it kind of offsets each other.

 

What I'm getting at is that the $2.2M cap space minus the $3.7M PS cap hit leaves Beane over the cap by around $2M when all the dust settles.

A couple of small "restructures" can easily be made to get under.  As for how much he needs to get through the season, other small moves

can be done when needed.  So, I don't see any "big moves" necessarily being needed.  Not saying there won't be one, just saying it is not

mandatory.

 

I do believe there could be a cut/trade (or even 2) that may surprise some fans.  Beane knows he is tight this year (and next), so it will be

interesting (for those of us who follow this stuff) as to how he handles things by next week.

I think Poona Ford gets cut and Boogie gets traded

[Toyo321]

Our cap outlook next year is even worse.

[ColoradoBills]

14 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I think Poona Ford gets cut and Boogie gets traded

 

As roster moves for talent, that could happen.  Both moves (after replacing the roster spot with another player) don't net any real cap savings though.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Airseven said:

Extending Jones at this stage makes sense. Committing to Dawkins does not, unless the structuring still allows the Bills to cut him next year for substantial cap savings.

I agree....however they have to agree on a contract.....look at what DT's are getting.  If they cant get to a reasonable number you may be stuck dealing with Tre or Dawkins which most in this thread don't like.   I agree with them, I would not want to extend either right now.

[Airseven]

25 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

Our cap outlook next year is even worse.

 

Could be an off-season of upheaval. Cutting White, Dawkins, Morse, Poyer, and Harty would clear $31M+.

[Toyo321]

5 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

Could be an off-season of upheaval. Cutting White, Dawkins, Morse, Poyer, and Harty would clear $31M+.

We are at -41 million already for next year. Not good,  that is why they need to pull a LA Rams this year and get a STUD RB and what ever LB some way, somehow,  this year before the pieces to the puzzle all come apart for this team.  Von Miller's Contract killed this team.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Toyo321

[Airseven]

2 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

We are at -41 million already for next year. Not good,  that is why they need to pull a LA Rams this year and get a STUD RB and what ever LB some way, somehow,  this year before the pieces to the puzzle all come apart for this team.  Von Miller's Contract killed this team.

 

It did, in part. And he can't be cut until after next season. A Diggs trade next spring becomes more realistic though if it all gets blown up. 

[LabattBlue]

The huge cap increases for Allen, Miller & Diggs is going to make for an interesting off-season next year. BB has his work cut out for him. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by LabattBlue

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

I am a big Taron Johnson fan and was going to get jersey before number changed.  Had an order which I was able to cancel.

 

Defense is going to change with Edmunds gone and would make sense to wait until they see how well he performs in it.

Lime, that and we’ll most likely see more Rapp inserted vs. heavy run and TE set teams as he would compliment Taron.  Keep Taron out there for obvious passing downs.

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Are you a Shakir hater or defender... not sure what your angle is by getting defensive over this.

 

Yes, I think Khalil Shakir could be used in a player swap for for a WR needy team that could have a backup who is an upgrade for what we have at a position of weakness.   If we flip him for a pick, recent 5th rounder with one year under his belt.. flashed a bit, but is still an unknown.. 6th/7th round pick.  

 

I also think we could flip Day 3 picks for players as well.. but I, personally, would rather player swaps of players in positions we're crowded in than sending away picks. 

Think Epenesa has more value on the streets. Would be willing to part with him, and a pick to sweeten it if the right OT was out there (seems like ARZ has two with Beachum and Josh Jones)... we also have communicated with them a decent amount this past offseason (DHop) so hopefully theres some mutual rapport/respect there. Either one of those would be real nice additions

2 hours ago, Herb Nightly said:

How about trading Lawson?

For whaaaat? Older guy who hit his (low) ceiling already? 

[AuntieEm]

2 hours ago, juno999 said:

Extending T. Johnson seems the safest move to create cap space.  Probably need an additional move though.  I like Jones but it may be Dawkins who they extend.  

If they rèstructure Dawkins it better be with an easy cut if he doesn't regain his form as he plays his way into shape.  And maybe add in some kind of workout clause tied to any money they will pay him so we see if that motivates him.

[BillsShredder83]

55 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

Our cap outlook next year is even worse.

Cap didnt grow as much as normal from the covid year... the next 2 years were modest bumps, I think next season really jumps to finally catch up to where it was trending pre-covid

3 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

If they rèstructure Dawkins it better be with an easy cut if he doesn't regain his form as he plays his way into shape.  And maybe add in some kind of workout clause tied to any money they will pay him so we see if that motivates him.

Agreed, but cant see why he would sign that lol he has all the leverage in any extension talk. If we come to the table to extend its because we need the cap room, not because we're overly worried about adding years.  Hes not getting cut, so from his perspective, why would he sign anything that moves backwards, when its BUFF needing the favor. 

 

He'd just say nah, and leave the table (*never thought id type that sentence)

[AuntieEm]

2 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Cap didnt grow as much as normal from the covid year... the next 2 years were modest bumps, I think next season really jumps to finally catch up to where it was trending pre-covid

 

  That would help but it helps all teams.  So then u get idiots like Cleveland giving Watson fully guaranteed contracts.  Would that still be true if Watson were to get into more legal issues  and perhaps even be caught and sentenced to jail?   I'm sure that nullifies the contract, and it certainly bears watching if he plays badly....  Could very well see him get setup, but by a disgruntled Browns fan, so  the evidence in the tape she provides is enough to send him to prison for a number of years.  

 

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

14 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

If they rèstructure Dawkins it better be with an easy cut if he doesn't regain his form as he plays his way into shape.  And maybe add in some kind of workout clause tied to any money they will pay him so we see if that motivates him.

A restructure would just move money from this year to next year and maybe one more if they do they void year thing.   You can’t just make it an easy cut the guy has an agent and they know that game and he has certain guarantees already.  If you want something from the player they want a committment.  
 

 

 

46 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

Could be an off-season of upheaval. Cutting White, Dawkins, Morse, Poyer, and Harty would clear $31M+.

Yeah I noticed that too.  At some point you have to get younger and cheaper. I think this should happen. It will be easy if they win the Super Bowl.   Otherwise this place will be all chicken littles. 

[AuntieEm]

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

A restructure would just move money from this year to next year and maybe one more if they do they void year thing.   You can’t just make it an easy cut the guy has an agent and they know that game and he has certain guarantees already.  If you want something from the player they want a committment.  
 

 

 

Which is why I hope they don't extend Dawkins.  Heck I'd even love his agent asking for a restructure to help the Bills and they just laugh and say no thanks.  Dawkins deserves the same commitment he shows to being in best shape in order to keep Josh and our offense in best shape.  

[AuntieEm]

5 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

A restructure would just move money from this year to next year and maybe one more if they do they void year thing.   You can’t just make it an easy cut the guy has an agent and they know that game and he has certain guarantees already.  If you want something from the player they want a committment.  
 

 

 

Yeah I noticed that too.  At some point you have to get younger and cheaper. I think this should happen. It will be easy if they win the Super Bowl.   Otherwise this place will be all chicken littles. 

   

  No I'd welcome it if it's based on performance.  If White is not able to regain his ability that his contract was based on then if he refuses to restructure to a more fair rate then that's on him and lack of honest awareness of decline in ability doesn't inspire confidence that that player is gonna improve going forward.  Though to be fair Tre White is pretty highly self motivated.  I'd see him taking a lower contract to stay in Buffalo.  Morse I think he is aware he is on borrowed time and with his concussion history I think he would retire anyway.  Have to see how others play þhis season as well.   

[Mark Vader]

49 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

The huge cap increases for Allen, Miller & Diggs is going to make for an interesting off-season next year. BB has his work cut out for him. 

I'm sure Beane will be up to the task.

[ddaryl]

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

At this point they need to generate space for guys they currently have.   No team has zero holes.

 

 

 

that can wait till next offseason. I see no one on the team that must be extended now

 

the holes we have are large and no team thinking they are competing for SB should or could have. MLB and OL

 

 

 

[AuntieEm]

7 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

 

that can wait till next offseason. I see no one on the team that must be extended now

 

the holes we have are large and no team thinking they are competing for SB should or could have. MLB and OL

 

 

 

Any player that could be a surprise cut this year based on savings and being expendable?

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by AuntieEm

[strive_for_five_guy]

20 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

   

  No I'd welcome it if it's based on performance.  If White is not able to regain his ability that his contract was based on then if he refuses to restructure to a more fair rate then that's on him and lack of honest awareness of decline in ability doesn't inspire confidence that that player is gonna improve going forward.  Though to be fair Tre White is pretty highly self motivated.  I'd see him taking a lower contract to stay in Buffalo.  Morse I think he is aware he is on borrowed time and with his concussion history I think he would retire anyway.  Have to see how others play þhis season as well.   

I’m thinking this is Morse’s last season.  They’re grooming Bates as the team’s next center. 

[AuntieEm]

1 minute ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I’m thinking this is Morse’s last season.  They’re grooming Bates as the team’s next center. 

I agree and I think Morse has planned that too.  Gets a shot at a ring which I'd like to see him get this year then he can retire for his family.