Will the dual role be too much for McD?

[FilthyBeast]

As bad as this team looked against the Steelers it's still just a preseason game.

 

With that said, when you are fundamentally bad in just about every position/aspect of the game that is direct indictment on the head coach and the concerns from critics (like myself) that forsee a major regression and 'owned and exposed' type of season incoming for the Bills aren't going away anytime soon.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

one of the things I noticed was a 3rd and 3.....and the DB's were lined up 7-10 yards off the line

 

I know it's preseason.....but seriously?????  AGAIN???? 

 

I have mentioned this throughout the offseason, but the defense we have witnessed under Frazier for the past several seasons is Sean McDermott's defense.

 

Perhaps it becomes slightly more aggressive, but fans are not going to see the change that many believe is coming.

 

A buddy of mine is  a Panthers fan and told me bluntly not to expect much difference. The defense we had in Buffalo under Frazier is very similar to what they had in Carolina under McDermott.

 

These two pictures say a thousand words. The first is the famous 3rd & 4 from the Bengals game where "Frazier" had our defensive backs play several yards back. The next picture is McDermott's defense from Carolina, in a similar situation, in the redzone, on 3rd and 2. Notice the defense...

 

 

 

 

[dickleyjones]

lots of negatives posted so far. fair enough.

 

but we should also consider the positives of the dual role. for one thing, when McD is making decisions be they head coach decisions or DC decisions, being in the dual role can help him make better decisions.

 

for example. a decision to go for it on 4th and 7 may be complimented by his knowledge of which plays he has in mind for the defense should the attempt fail. he may not need to call one of his famous "see what the offense is doing" time outs having complete knowledge of the current playcall on defense. defensive playcalls might be made with more "total game" context in mind.

 

i'm sure there are more ways being both DC and HC is complimentary rather than burdensome.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I thought he was "excited" about it?

 

🤷‍♂️

[DCofNC]

He’s had trouble making in the moment decisions/ getting it relayed to the team in the past.  Adding more to his plate, terrible idea IMHO.  Time will tell, but I kind of expect a train wreck of a year at this point.

[Toyo321]

McD's multitasking skills trying to coach and run the defense at the same time!!

 

 

Then the response from everyone at TBD who saw this coming!!

 

Priceless!!

 

 

[Billever76]

On 8/20/2023 at 1:20 PM, AuntieEm said:

 

  I like McDermott but I think he gives the players too much leeway on being self disciplined when they show they are not very self disciplined.   

 

  I remember many critical of Marv Levy's Clubbed approach at his camps but he at least read the self discipline of his star players correctly.  Bruce was famous for skipping preseason but when the real game began he was all in.  Of these guys maybe Diggs is the only guy that has been consistent throughout.  Josh doesn't seem to be totally focused on football as he claims to be.  I don't even think he needs to be 100% football all the time.   I do expect him to take it more seriously than he seems to.   The video of them pranking Josh irks me in how casually he is taking what he thinks is doing a promo shot for his employer NFL and he's walking about barefoot as if he's at home.  Not a very professional look.  I've had workplaces where we'd donate a few dollars to have a casual Friday as a change up and that still didn't mean we could show up barefoot as if we were at home.  Just thought it was a bad look. 

 

 I want my well paid stars to show up to work and nor feel like they are relaxing at home on their own time. Particularly when they get massive time off each year to do as they please.  

 

  Basically I do think there is a process that they need to adhere to and trust. But I'm finding it hard to believe most of these guys understand it as they aren't doing more than just mouthing the phrase.  If they lip sync to  Whitney Houston's star spangled banner it doesn't make them singers that are as good as Whitney was.

 

 

  Basically I put at least 75% on the players.

  

 

 

I've seen too many bone headed coaching decisions to put it 75% on the players 😂....I'm actually leaning 75% coaching staff

[Freddie's Dead]

Since coaching the team is too much for him, yes.

[AuntieEm]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

I've seen too many bone headed coaching decisions to put it 75% on the players 😂....I'm actually leaning 75% coaching staff

 

Nah as Josh says they are grown men if they need someone to tell them how to keep in shape than I don't think that player is very coachable to begin with.  

[HappyCat]

On 8/20/2023 at 1:30 PM, NewEra said:

Maybe.  Maybe not.

 

I think our OL will determine the answer.  

I agree about the OL and what it will mean to the overall Bills season

[maddenboy]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:43 PM, bmur66 said:

I’d say he is all in

part of the problem with this is that he shoulda been 'all in' last year. 

 

So if he wasnt saving anything at all last year, what more can he give this year?

 

and even if he finds a teeny bit more in a crack somewhere, how will that teeny bit be enough to be the entire Defensive Coordinator?  in additon to the entire Head Coach?

 

and, the team will be better with him as both jobs? 

 

I mean, its posible that his 'teeny bit' is honestly better than the entirety of anybody else he could have found for the job.  Maybe so, since all the bright young minds seem to wanna work on the Offensive side.   But there's still only 24 hours in a day

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by maddenboy

[bmur66]

40 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

part of the problem with this is that he shoulda been 'all in' last year. 

 

So if he wasnt saving anything at all last year, what more can he give this year?

 

and even if he finds a teeny bit more in a crack somewhere, how will that teeny bit be enough to be the entire Defensive Coordinator?  in additon to the entire Head Coach?

 

and, the team will be better with him as both jobs? 

 

I mean, its posible that his 'teeny bit' is honestly better than the entirety of anybody else he could have found for the job.  Maybe so, since all the bright young minds seem to wanna work on the Offensive side.   But there's still only 24 hours in a day

 

What I mean by "all in" is that McD now has nobody to blame for defensive shortcomings and if the defense fails in the playoffs, (assuming they get there) this time it will be squarely on his shoulders

[maddenboy]

i see.  I thought you were saying "dont worry.  he Got this."

[Drew21PA]

I’m probably too positive bud feel history shows that when McDermott took over things - our defense was stout and excited in ways that or DC couldn’t get done.

 

ivalso think McDermott May over think as hc at times and lose games that way 

 

 

[newcam2012]

On 8/20/2023 at 10:50 AM, LeGOATski said:

 

For McDermott detractors here, I don't see why you wouldn't want McD taking ultimate responsibility for this defense.

 

In his 7th year (?) and with such a veteran-infused roster that knows the process, a lot of the head coaching responsibilities are more automatic then ever for McD and the staff. If there was any doubt, I don't think McD would've taken on the DC role.

 

Ultimately though, I feel like detractors of McD should be happy he's putting it on his shoulders. Because if he didn't, you'd be complaining that he uses his DC as a scapegoat.

 

Which way do you want it?

I'm glad he's taking over the defense! He can't hide anymore. He and the fan base can't use Frazier  as the scapegoat. It's put up or shut up time. That's a great thing. 

[newcam2012]

On 8/20/2023 at 12:16 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

So for you, it's a given he can handle both jobs equally well?  How have you already concluded this?

13 seconds is a good measuring stick...

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Time will tell … in any business, if someone hasn’t mastered the skills required at their present position, would you decide to add another extremely important task to their plate?  If an important decision is botched in a critical moment of an important game, well, we know how that will be received 

[newcam2012]

On 8/20/2023 at 12:55 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

I would like to believe that McD calling defensive plays will be at the very least a slight upgrade over Frazier. We should see more man press and aggressive blitzing. We have to assume Von won't be ready early. So Floyd & Groot will have to get off to a good start. Obviously the MLB situation is still bad and unknown. Milano must call the plays. This isn't even debatable. If we can't disrupt Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts and Lawrence it's not going to be a 13 win season. 

Agree but I'd add in Tua and Rodgers too. 

On 8/20/2023 at 3:46 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

Listen dude, if you aren't able to tell the difference between someone being absolute with fact and someone answering a "yes/no" question on a written forum....that's on you. IN MY OPINION.

 

You read way to much into a simple statement IN MY OPINION.

 

Really don't need a lecture on "the best way to convince someone that McD is absolutely, without question, one of them." as I feel like you have missed the point entirely. IN MY OPINION.

 

*Note the above stated is only AN OPINION of someone on a football message board. 

 

 

It was an absolute opinion. 

[PBF81]

17 hours ago, dickleyjones said:

lots of negatives posted so far. fair enough.

 

but we should also consider the positives of the dual role. for one thing, when McD is making decisions be they head coach decisions or DC decisions, being in the dual role can help him make better decisions.

 

for example. a decision to go for it on 4th and 7 may be complimented by his knowledge of which plays he has in mind for the defense should the attempt fail. he may not need to call one of his famous "see what the offense is doing" time outs having complete knowledge of the current playcall on defense. defensive playcalls might be made with more "total game" context in mind.

 

i'm sure there are more ways being both DC and HC is complimentary rather than burdensome.

 

This season will reveal much, including whether or not this unfolds positively.  

 

 

[newcam2012]

On 8/21/2023 at 7:48 AM, Logic said:

Legitimate question. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just genuinely curious: Upon what evidence do you base this suspicion?

I really question if players have a little negative thought process after the 13 sec coach McD disaster. If they question in the back of their mind can he get it done. 

 

I get the feeling that Diggs feels this way. Gotta believe others do too. 

[newcam2012]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:14 AM, Einstein said:

 

I have mentioned this throughout the offseason, but the defense we have witnessed under Frazier for the past several seasons is Sean McDermott's defense.

 

Perhaps it becomes slightly more aggressive, but fans are not going to see the change that many believe is coming.

 

A buddy of mine is  a Panthers fan and told me bluntly not to expect much difference. The defense we had in Buffalo under Frazier is very similar to what they had in Carolina under McDermott.

 

These two pictures say a thousand words. The first is the famous 3rd & 4 from the Bengals game where "Frazier" had our defensive backs play several yards back. The next picture is McDermott's defense from Carolina, in a similar situation, in the redzone, on 3rd and 2. Notice the defense...

 

 

 

 

Agree! Coach McD clearly gave Fraizer his stamp of approval. It certainly was coach McD defense. 

 

However, the little tweeks might be effective. Might be the difference from winning and losing or getting that crucial stop. 

 

Personally, I don't have much faith in McD. I certainly don't see him as a savior or the answer. 

 

Let's see how it plays out. Either way, McD will be front and center. He will get blame or praise based on his performance. Who can bicker about that?

[ToGoGo]

It’s a trade off. Something will be lost as a HC with the time spent as DC. 
 

Will it be enough to negatively affect the season? That’s the real question. 

[dickleyjones]

6 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

This season will reveal much, including whether or not this unfolds positively.  

 

 

obviously.

 

but there are positives that haven't been discussed much or at all.  i'm interested in discussing those.

 

whether it's net positive we shall see.

[wppete]

He looked a little overwhelmed especially in the Pittsburg game. 

[Andysplaylist]

6 minutes ago, dickleyjones said:

obviously.

 

but there are positives that haven't been discussed much or at all.  i'm interested in discussing those.

 

whether it's net positive we shall see.

I think there could be a positive here - when has McD gotten in trouble as a head coach?

When he is overthinking in big spots, getting too smart for his own good. 13 seconds shell defense a prime example. Conservative offensive play calling in big spots, which I am sure he has a hand in at the end of big games. 

 

If calling defensive plays gets him out of his head and into his gut or even lower regions (going for it on 4th down as much as he can!), this could be a good thing for him and the team in big games. 
 

When this team is aggressive and plays with fire and doesn’t overthink, it’s one of the best in the league. 

[LeGOATski]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I'm glad he's taking over the defense! He can't hide anymore. He and the fan base can't use Frazier  as the scapegoat. It's put up or shut up time. That's a great thing. 

I bet he wishes he could just coach the team from the safety and comfort of his own basement.

 

That rat-faced coward.

[C.Biscuit97]

I was told that once we lost the DC and MLB of our crappy number 2 defense, everything was going to be fine! 

[Gunsgoodtime]

Come playoff time "The single role" seems to be too much as it is, much less the dual role.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, dickleyjones said:

obviously.

 

but there are positives that haven't been discussed much or at all.  i'm interested in discussing those.

 

whether it's net positive we shall see.

 

Well, I wouldn't say "obviously" in every instance.  It's amazing how quite often a majority opinion overlooks quite a few things.  I guess I should have clarified a little better, but IMO it's going to be glaringly obvious.  LOL 

 

Without assuming what you're viewing as the 'positives', I'll ask directly, what do you see as "positives" in our MLB situation?  Asking for a friend.   

 

Frankly I'm not sure I see any.  I've been told by some here that the MLB position is going away in the NFL, and not knowing the depth charts of the 31 other teams, I went and looked, and on paper at least, all have either a MLB or ILBs in a 3-4.  So it does not appear to be the case that the position is disappearing.  I also think that that proposition is ridiculous since teams still run the ball, and if the position were to be "going away" in favor of smaller LBs that can cover better than they can play the run, then I'd fully expect teams to run the ball UTM more, which only makes sense at that point.  

 

I've been bringing this up since last season assuming that would not keep Edmunds, which we haven't, and how we'd better get on the stick in terms of planning a replacement after his departure.  That obviously hasn't happened.  

 

 

[dickleyjones]

15 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, I wouldn't say "obviously" in every instance.  It's amazing how quite often a majority opinion overlooks quite a few things.  I guess I should have clarified a little better, but IMO it's going to be glaringly obvious.  LOL 

 

Without assuming what you're viewing as the 'positives', I'll ask directly, what do you see as "positives" in our MLB situation?  Asking for a friend.   

 

Frankly I'm not sure I see any.  I've been told by some here that the MLB position is going away in the NFL, and not knowing the depth charts of the 31 other teams, I went and looked, and on paper at least, all have either a MLB or ILBs in a 3-4.  So it does not appear to be the case that the position is disappearing.  I also think that that proposition is ridiculous since teams still run the ball, and if the position were to be "going away" in favor of smaller LBs that can cover better than they can play the run, then I'd fully expect teams to run the ball UTM more, which only makes sense at that point.  

 

I've been bringing this up since last season assuming that would not keep Edmunds, which we haven't, and how we'd better get on the stick in terms of planning a replacement after his departure.  That obviously hasn't happened.  

 

 

Oh i see very little positive in the MLB situation, only that given where we are at i'm glad we have a relatively competent defensive mind to help mask that weakness.

 

But this thread is about mcd being dc and hc. I already listed some positives i can think of. Andysplaylist has another thought which is interesting.

 

There must be a reason why some very good head coaches have done the same (or in reid's case hc and oc but you get the idea). They won the superbowl multiple times doing so, if being hc and dc/oc was so full of negatives it likely wouldn't have worked out that way.

 

 

 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

17 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I bet he wishes he could just coach the team from the safety and comfort of his own basement.

 

That rat-faced coward.

the resident llort obviously didn't get the sarcasm in your post.

 

 

 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, dickleyjones said:

Oh i see very little positive in the MLB situation, only that given where we are at i'm glad we have a relatively competent defensive mind to help mask that weakness.

 

But this thread is about mcd being dc and hc. I already listed some positives i can think of. Andysplaylist has another thought which is interesting.

 

There must be a reason why some very good head coaches have done the same (or in reid's case hc and oc but you get the idea). They won the superbowl multiple times doing so, if being hc and dc/oc was so full of negatives it likely wouldn't have worked out that way.

 

Andysplaylist's thought is interesting, but here's the issue that I have with it.  If that's true, it's suggesting that distractions will bring out competence, which is a stretch.  LOL  The other part of it is that McD has never come out and taken credit for it.  Quite the opposite in fact, it's been implied, at least as I see it, based on veiled statements and press comments, that it was not his fault.  Either way, we don't really know who made those decisions.  

 

The other thing I have an issue with is comparing McD to Reid, and more specifically when you said "relatively competent defensive mind."   I'd ask for a definition of that before I comment further, but there's been a very inaccurate narrative since McD was hired, that somehow he was ever anything but a very average DC, which the data strongly suggests is the case.  

 

I recently made a post detailing that, I forget which thread I posted it in, but I'm happy to post it again.  It paints the opposite picture, which I've maintained all along.  There was never anything special about Carolina's D, and the talent he had there is comparable to what he's got to work with here, perhaps even a little better there.  I mean when you have Kuechly anchoring your D ...

 

IMO we're headed for a similar very average D ranked season here.  I am expecting the offense to be the best Bills offense ever however, and IMO that's far more important in today's NFL.  If this were the '80s or '90s I'd disagree, but in today's pass-happy offensively skewed league, much better to have a top-ranked O and an average D than the other way around.  

 

 

[schoolhouserock]

I think it is entirely fair to speculate that McD felt he himself was the team’s best option at D coordinator. He had been successful in that roll before and, as a person with a lot of self confidence, that belief is natural.

 

However, I wonder at the possibility that the true nexus for McD’s decision to take on defensive play calling was something a little more base. It is not unusual to miss some of the ‘grunt work’ as one progresses to higher level positions. That ‘grunt work’ can seem more pure, more fun. I wonder if McD feels he has lost a bit of the enjoyment he may have once known in earlier coaching gigs. This may all simply be a bid to recapture a bit of that mojo.

 

The dual role for McD may be too much for him from the team’s perspective, but it could also be just right from his own point of view.
 

From my point of view, it’s a gamble. Even so, I tend to like people that gamble on themselves.