Culture and one year deals

[Pabstblueribbon]

Lots of really good points brought up in here to be celebrated. State of the art training facility, electrifying qb#1, HoF tier veteran leadership and the most loyal fans in the league. It's a good time to be us.

 

Now we just have one last dragon to slay.

[SydneyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I'm a McDermott skeptic but the Floyd signing made me think of how well the culture has been maintained year over year even with these one year rentals. 

McD has done a real solid job of building a culture that allows these guys to quickly acclimate to the club, produce, and for the most part not be a negative influence. 

With the notable exceptions of Benjamin and the CB that quit at halftime, I don’t think there is another guy that was brought in and caused any issues. Don't know the whole story on Spain year 2 but that was quickly handled. 

He has done it in a variety of ways too. He let Kyle Williams be the elder leader while Josh matured. He then let Josh lead, only to bring in Miller at a later time and let him take some of that burden too. The whole time he also has Morse as a reliable steady veteran influence in the background. 

No doubt Beane has some role in this as well selecting guys that should be a good fit, but this is where McDermott has been exceptional. 

 

 

 

Not sure why but when you mentioned Benjamin I instantly developed a lazy streak and my arse grew two sizes.

[WyoAZBillfan]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

What are there playoff percentages? How far do there teams advance in an average year. Regular season percentages have a lot to do with the division you play in, and the rest of your schedule. Also, McDermott has been blessed with a top QB for all but the first 1 1/2 years of his tenure.  Belichek had that in NE, and did much more with it. Reid never had that in Philadelphia. Once he has had that in KC, he has done much more with it.  

Belichek had Bernie in Cleveland also. People forget it took him a while before he won the big show too. Denver has Elway for a million years and all it took was a defense and HOF running back to get the chip. 

[hondo in seattle]

Beane deserves a lot of credit for putting this roster together but McD made it easier for him by making Buffalo a place where FAs want to play.

[Chicken Boo]

12 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Only one team wins them every year. It took Reid 20 years to win his first one. 

 

With his 2nd franchise.

[Mr. WEO]

how many stay for more than 1 year?

[Jerome007]

We all knew better teams tend to attract better FA, but still, I didn't think it was that good ha ha. JA17 as QB, being top SB contenders, all those prime time games, it really does quite a difference. But still, kudos to Beane to capitalize on it. 

[Jerome007]

11 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Beane deserves a lot of credit for putting this roster together but McD made it easier for him by making Buffalo a place where FAs want to play.

Plus players like Miller are active recruiters, Josh is an attraction magnet, etc. It is a team effort all around, but Beane deserves credit for sure.

[RenoNVBillsfan]

No question McD has built stability in a franchise that was considered laughable prior to his arrival.  Nice guy.  Cares about his players, team and community.  Produced solid winning record thus far.  All that withstanding, I believe this is a make or break year for McD.  The scapegoats have been removed.   The team fired the ST Coach after that horrendous kickoff decision vs the Chiefs in the divisional playoff game.  Frazier "excused" himself after an equally inept defensive gameplan vs the Bengals. This is the year the McD must produce and get the Bills over the hump.  Beane....this guy has literally served up the best roster (on paper) the Bills conceivably have ever had!  Offensive playmakers. OL help to protect JA and move the pocket.  Defensive stalwarts.  Resigned key FA's.  If McD does not get it done -barring a major injury to JA- then I believe his time has passed.  Elite HC's would be salivating at the mouth to try their hand at this talented infused roster.  

[Yantha]

21 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I'm a McDermott skeptic but the Floyd signing made me think of how well the culture has been maintained year over year even with these one year rentals. 

McD has done a real solid job of building a culture that allows these guys to quickly acclimate to the club, produce, and for the most part not be a negative influence. 

With the notable exceptions of Benjamin and the CB that quit at halftime, I don’t think there is another guy that was brought in and caused any issues. Don't know the whole story on Spain year 2 but that was quickly handled. 

He has done it in a variety of ways too. He let Kyle Williams be the elder leader while Josh matured. He then let Josh lead, only to bring in Miller at a later time and let him take some of that burden too. The whole time he also has Morse as a reliable steady veteran influence in the background. 

No doubt Beane has some role in this as well selecting guys that should be a good fit, but this is where McDermott has been exceptional. 

 

 

It's a win NOW mentality, and if a certain one year player turns out to be a major factor, they'd be considered for an extension.

 

What is SO great is that players who are free agents right now all WANT to be in Buffalo to be part of a serious superbowl push.   Especially the older vets with something left in the tank.  

 

Not sure if Hopkins is affordable after the Oliver and Floyd signings, but there's another example of a solid vet who wants a potential ring with Buffalo.  There's no reason why Buffalo can't be the next great "dynasty team", like we saw with New England.  That team just knew how to keep it going year in and year out.  The Bills can too.....  with smart cap management, and the right FA acquisitions.  Draft is important too, but IMO not much of a factor in New England during the dynasty years.  Personally I think we've had better drafts comparatively.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

how many stay for more than 1 year?

A few. Williams and Spain on the o-line signed long term deals after 1 year. Feliciano signed a two year deal and then signed a second deal.  More recently Lawson and Phillips.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Ethan in Cleveland

[Mr. WEO]

44 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

A few. Williams and Spain on the o-line signed long term deals after 1 year. Feliciano signed a two year deal and  then signed a second deal. 

 

most come and go without much imprint.  1 year doesn't add much to the culture--or alter it.

[MarlinTheMagician]

I didn't want OBJ and I don't really want Hopkins - though it would be fun.  I kind of like our receiver room.  I think one of the non-Diggs guys can develop into a 2 for the future.  With Stefon's age I don't really want to get older at wideout.  And I am not sure (don't really know, must admit), that DHop would be good for the culture.  I am good with our wideouts plus Knox and Kincaid.  Plus I think Damien Harriss will be a very good signing.  We have not had that type of back for a while.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

most come and go without much imprint.  1 year doesn't add much to the culture--or alter it.

I agree.  My point was the stability of the organization allows these guys to come in, contribute, and mostly do well. 

[Chaos]

18 hours ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

Belichek had Bernie in Cleveland also. People forget it took him a while before he won the big show too. Denver has Elway for a million years and all it took was a defense and HOF running back to get the chip. 

Denver had a bad coach (playoff failure reeves) Bernie was not an elite QB , so I don't get your point.  

[Nextmanup]

8 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

With his 2nd franchise.

Are we already in McDermott apologist mode?

 

 

 

[WyoAZBillfan]

5 hours ago, Chaos said:

Denver had a bad coach (playoff failure reeves) Bernie was not an elite QB , so I don't get your point.  

Bernie was considered elite…so was that defense. Look at the numbers BK put up for that time. Your either too young to remember out unwilling to admit BB was not an instant HOF coach

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

Hard to disagree on McBeane having done a rather decent job on the "culture" side of things (although with a tad too much blame deflection on a few occasions).

 

Yet, there still is that evil side of me that would be totally fine with having a couple of players who serve some minor jail time if that came with winning a Superbowl.

[freddyjj]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:57 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Good catch. I thought they had a year overlap! Dam I'm usually better than that. 

@AuntieEm too.  Kyle did in fact play the 2018 season which was Josh's rookie year.  

[Punching Bag]

On 6/5/2023 at 9:21 PM, Pabstblueribbon said:

Lots of really good points brought up in here to be celebrated. State of the art training facility, electrifying qb#1, HoF tier veteran leadership and the most loyal fans in the league. It's a good time to be us.

 

Now we just have one last dragon to slay.

 

I would not call them "most loyal fans".  I do not see some of other teams constantly taking shots at GM and HC while they are winning.  

Some fans have equivalent of PTSD.

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, freddyjj said:

@AuntieEm too.  Kyle did in fact play the 2018 season which was Josh's rookie year.  

Your are right.  For some reason I thought Kyle retired after the drought ending playoff game.  And I do remember them playing Kyle on offense to have him catch a pass.  And how ì thought it was great that horrible Harry got to learn a year from Kyle às he seemed to have the similar motor Kyle had.  

 

 

Anyone know how Harrison looks playing on the Vikings defense?  Just curious if he would be playing better than Oliver has. 

 

 

 

 

[Tanoros]

On 6/5/2023 at 5:57 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Good catch. I thought they had a year overlap! Dam I'm usually better than that. 

I could be wrong, but I thought Kyle came back for one more year after the playoff drought? 

[nedboy7]

Then why are you a skeptic? 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 6/7/2023 at 5:05 AM, AuntieEm said:

Your are right.  For some reason I thought Kyle retired after the drought ending playoff game.  And I do remember them playing Kyle on offense to have him catch a pass.  And how ì thought it was great that horrible Harry got to learn a year from Kyle às he seemed to have the similar motor Kyle had.  

 

 

Anyone know how Harrison looks playing on the Vikings defense?  Just curious if he would be playing better than Oliver has. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah he played very well last year and his play was notable in their win over the Bills.

 

PFF recently had a story about their top 32 interior defenders for 2023......and Harrison is on there.    The Bills project to have 3 of the top 32.   So we like PFF in this article.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-interior-defender-rankings-2023-nfl-season

[PBF81]

On 6/5/2023 at 1:36 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I'm a McDermott skeptic but the Floyd signing made me think of how well the culture has been maintained year over year even with these one year rentals. 

McD has done a real solid job of building a culture that allows these guys to quickly acclimate to the club, produce, and for the most part not be a negative influence. 

With the notable exceptions of Benjamin and the CB that quit at halftime, I don’t think there is another guy that was brought in and caused any issues. Don't know the whole story on Spain year 2 but that was quickly handled. 

He has done it in a variety of ways too. He let Kyle Williams be the elder leader while Josh matured. He then let Josh lead, only to bring in Miller at a later time and let him take some of that burden too. The whole time he also has Morse as a reliable steady veteran influence in the background. 

No doubt Beane has some role in this as well selecting guys that should be a good fit, but this is where McDermott has been exceptional. 

 

What are all the 1-year deals of players that actually contributed to above-average levels?  

 

Stocking our OL has been a clinic on 1-year deals and I can't think of one OL-man we brought in on a 1-year deal that played to above-average levels.  Most haven't even done that.  

 

Anyway, just curious which ones you considered that prompted you to start the thread?  

 

 

[GreggTX]

We see an article about a player with a big head shooting his mouth off or getting in trouble and we forget all the dumb stuff we did at that age. Maybe we think that many professional athletes are spoiled, but the truth is that most of them are high character guys who worked hard to get where they are. It's probably not as difficult as you might think to find guys that fit our culture and want to come here because they've heard about it.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by GreggTX

[newcam2012]

On 6/5/2023 at 10:39 AM, MrEpsYtown said:

I think the biggest thing is that 5-6 years ago none of these dudes would have signed here. The fact that vets want to come here to win and are taking very little money to do so is remarkable and not something I had experienced with our beloved Bills up to this point.  

 

On 6/5/2023 at 10:57 AM, Big Turk said:

So you are a skeptic of the winningest coach in franchise history. Got it. Makes perfect sense.

 

Maybe you should root for the Browns? More your style

 

I'm skeptical and will remain skeptical. Glad you asked why? As a Bills coach:

 

How about 4-5 in post season games in the playoffs. That's a 44% win rate. 

 

How about 1 AFC championship conference game which resulted in a loss. 

 

How about literally blowing the KC game in 13 seconds. Ripping the hearts out of Allen, Diggs, and the Buffalo fans. 

 

How about having his team unprepared to play vs Cinci last year. Getting whipped at every facet of the game. 

 

How about no SB appearances or wins. 

 

He wins regular season games. Fantastic. He losses playoff games more than he wins. 

 

Do the math. McD shouldn't go without criticism. 

 

Your attack is unwarranted and frankly disgusting. The skepticism is more than warranted. 

 

On 6/5/2023 at 8:24 PM, hondo in seattle said:

Beane deserves a lot of credit for putting this roster together but McD made it easier for him by making Buffalo a place where FAs want to play.

Let's keep things in perspective. It's not Beane nor McD that attract players to Buffalo. It is Josh Allen all day all night. 

 

Now, if you wanna give Beane credit for getting Allen that's another story. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by newcam2012

[Chaos]

On 6/6/2023 at 11:32 PM, WyoAZBillfan said:

Bernie was considered elite…so was that defense. Look at the numbers BK put up for that time. Your either too young to remember out unwilling to admit BB was not an instant HOF coach

I am pretty old. Kosar was simply not elite.  He was fun.  But no one expected championships because Kosar was your QB. No one is instantly a HOF coach.  So again, you seem to have no point.  Other than Joe Gibbs most HOF coaches are paired with HOF QBs during their championship runs.  Reid was not a sure fire HOF coach prior to Mahomes. Now he is. Bellichek may never have one any championships without Tom Brady.  Marv Levy was not a HOF coach without Jim Kelly. Josh Allen is on a level similar to Dan Marino.  If Allen never wins a superbowl his place in football history will be headlined by discussions of whether Allen or Marino was the best QB to never win a superbowl.  No one will ever put Bernie Kosar into that discussion.    

[Ethan in Cleveland]

19 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

What are all the 1-year deals of players that actually contributed to above-average levels?  

 

Stocking our OL has been a clinic on 1-year deals and I can't think of one OL-man we brought in on a 1-year deal that played to above-average levels.  Most haven't even done that.  

 

Anyway, just curious which ones you considered that prompted you to start the thread?  

 

 

Again it was about the culture that McD and Beane have built that allows these 1 yr guys to come in and contribute and not upset the culture either. Perhaps I'm making a bit too much of it but there have been some nice success stories..

Williams at Rt

Spain at OG 

Remember both were good enough in year 1 to earn second contracts

Lawson came back and started over two 2nd round picks

Sanders contributed nicely

Heck you can even throw in Sam Martin. 

Others like Gore came in played their role and did so without causing disruption.

 

[newcam2012]

19 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Again it was about the culture that McD and Beane have built that allows these 1 yr guys to come in and contribute and not upset the culture either. Perhaps I'm making a bit too much of it but there have been some nice success stories..

Williams at Rt

Spain at OG 

Remember both were good enough in year 1 to earn second contracts

Lawson came back and started over two 2nd round picks

Sanders contributed nicely

Heck you can even throw in Sam Martin. 

Others like Gore came in played their role and did so without causing disruption.

 

What does "culture" even mean as far as football goes? 

 

I want nasty, physical, and mean players that have an attitude. Seems like the Bills lack these types of players. Maybe that has something to do with early playoff exits? Maybe it doesn't? 

[C.Biscuit97]

Culture is the most overrated word in all of sports. Know what makes your culture good? Winning and having an awesome qb. There was some garbage and low esteem narrative that the Bills couldn’t get free agents because no one wanted to come to Buffalo years ago. 
 

the bills have a good culture because they are winning and Josh Allen. If we didn’t win and have Allen, the culture won’t be good. 
 

 

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

What does "culture" even mean as far as football goes? 

 

I want nasty, physical, and mean players that have an attitude. Seems like the Bills lack these types of players. Maybe that has something to do with early playoff exits? Maybe it doesn't? 

I’ve often said the same thing while screaming at the television. But…there is a difference between culture and the nasty streak you and I would both like to see more of. Culture is about playing for the name on the front of your jersey, not the one on the back…as Tommy Lasorda famously said. Nasty comes from your attitude towards your opponent. I’m hopeful we’ll see a tad more nasty from the defensive side with Frazier gone. 

[C.Biscuit97]

10 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

What does "culture" even mean as far as football goes? 

 

I want nasty, physical, and mean players that have an attitude. Seems like the Bills lack these types of players. Maybe that has something to do with early playoff exits? Maybe it doesn't? 

You’re living in different era. Who was the nasty guy on the chiefs? Or the Rams? 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

I’ve often said the same thing while screaming at the television. But…there is a difference between culture and the nasty streak you and I would both like to see more of. Culture is about playing for the name on the front of your jersey, not the one on the back…as Tommy Lasorda famously said. Nasty comes from your attitude towards your opponent. I’m hopeful we’ll see a tad more nasty from the defensive side with Frazier gone. 

Yes, all the nastiness in baseball! 

3 hours ago, GreggTX said:

We see an article about a player with a big head shooting his mouth off or getting in trouble and we forget all the dumb stuff we did at that age. Maybe we think that many professional athletes are spoiled, but the truth is that most of them are high character guys who worked hard to get where they are. It's probably not as difficult as you might think to find guys that fit our culture and want to come here because they've heard about it.

 

 

Good post. Most athletes are million times more mature than the 35+ year old people who love to criticism them.

On 6/5/2023 at 11:24 PM, hondo in seattle said:

Beane deserves a lot of credit for putting this roster together but McD made it easier for him by making Buffalo a place where FAs want to play.

Honestly, when we’re free agents a problem for the bills? I think this is such a giant misconception. If you put this Allen on the the 2014 team, the might have won a SB. We never had problems getting free agents during the TD years. 
 

I think McDermott is the second best bills coach of my lifetime. But the way people talk about the bills before him and Beane is like they were 1 and 2 win teams. They averaged 7-8 wins for like 5 years. Then they hit on a legit top 5 qb (which they deserve a ton of credit for) and everything else is gravy.

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yes, all the nastiness in baseball! 

 

Huh? I didn’t say there was nastiness in baseball. I used the baseball reference in relation to the idea of culture. (The reference is a famous one.)

[C.Biscuit97]

33 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Huh? I didn’t say there was nastiness in baseball. I used the baseball reference in relation to the idea of culture. (The reference is a famous one.)

It’s a different world. These guys know each other since high school, make a lot of money, switch teams too much to have that hatred. It might last for a year or 2 but guys aren’t going to hate guys the way they used to. Unless it’s Taylor Lewan. Everyone hates him. 

[uticaclub]

While Floyd will only play here for one year, we will have him on the cap for three. But again, Josh is the culture, if he gets picked before 7 McBeane is gone. We win the division because of our QB, not because of clapping.

[newcam2012]

59 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re living in different era. Who was the nasty guy on the chiefs? Or the Rams? 

Kelce!!!!Talks a lot of ***** too. 

 

Donald plays with a huge chip on his shoulder. Plays with a dominant attitude. 

 

Football is still football. The Bills have long been know as being a finesse team. Their weaknesses for quite awhile has been in the trenches. 

 

Sign me up for a guy like Suh or Conrad Cobbler. The Bills are lacking that. I suppose it doesn't fit the culture they have built. 

 

It's football not choir service. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Again it was about the culture that McD and Beane have built that allows these 1 yr guys to come in and contribute and not upset the culture either. Perhaps I'm making a bit too much of it but there have been some nice success stories..

Williams at Rt

Spain at OG 

Remember both were good enough in year 1 to earn second contracts

Lawson came back and started over two 2nd round picks

Sanders contributed nicely

Heck you can even throw in Sam Martin. 

Others like Gore came in played their role and did so without causing disruption.

 

Whether you're making too much of it really depends upon the perspective.  If it's a human rights story so to speak, then sure, it is what it is. 

 

I always look at things from the performance perspective.  Insofar as that goes, we've had well too many 1-year signees coming in here in key roles, most notably the OL, next up Front-7.  IMO the culture thing is overrated.  At some point competence and doing the job properly takes precedence.  The two are not mutually exclusive which is my angle.  To start, most players in the NFL aren't "bad culture" types, there are only a handful of those.  And BTW, Diggs pending.  We don't know how that's going to unfold, but we cannot say that we weren't warned.  But that's another issue although culture related.  

 

1-year signees know that they can be easily released as they typically don't have significant signing bonuses associated with them, they're typically more what I refer to as expense bonuses.  

 

At the end of the day culture is good, but getting good players in key positions, which for us should have been the OL since Allen's been here, takes priority over culture, especially since both can easily be done.  Back to my original point, our 1-year signees, and there's a long string of them, typically have offered nothing but below-average play.  In other words, JAGs.  Very few have offered average and I can't think of one that's provided above average.  Beane has relied on them as fixes for five years now.  That's not good, from a performance angle, no matter the culture.  

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

15 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Whether you're making too much of it really depends upon the perspective.  If it's a human rights story so to speak, then sure, it is what it is. 

 

I always look at things from the performance perspective.  Insofar as that goes, we've had well too many 1-year signees coming in here in key roles, most notably the OL, next up Front-7.  IMO the culture thing is overrated.  At some point competence and doing the job properly takes precedence.  The two are not mutually exclusive which is my angle.  To start, most players in the NFL aren't "bad culture" types, there are only a handful of those.  And BTW, Diggs pending.  We don't know how that's going to unfold, but we cannot say that we weren't warned.  But that's another issue although culture related.  

 

1-year signees know that they can be easily released as they typically don't have significant signing bonuses associated with them, they're typically more what I refer to as expense bonuses.  

 

At the end of the day culture is good, but getting good players in key positions, which for us should have been the OL since Allen's been here, takes priority over culture, especially since both can easily be done.  Back to my original point, our 1-year signees, and there's a long string of them, typically have offered nothing but below-average play.  In other words, JAGs.  Very few have offered average and I can't think of one that's provided above average.  Beane has relied on them as fixes for five years now.  That's not good, from a performance angle, no matter the culture.  

 

 

Excellent point. I think with the cap dollars allocated to star QB and several star players you are going to need to sign some key free agents to 1 and 2 year deals to fill out your starting squads. You can only draft so many guys.