Poona Ford signing with the Bills

[Slack_in_MA]

 

What kind of name is Poon, anyway?

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Slack_in_MA

[Warriorspikes51]

6 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

We have 2 solid NT's now. Ford is every bit as good as Jones too. Neither is great, but still...

 

Jones is very good and should be extended immediately in my opinion 

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Sign him then. 

 

Beane said he has been talking to his people and he hopes to get it done. Whether that means before the season or after the season remains to be seen.

 

But this concept of "you have to get something for him before you lose him for nothing" is short sighted and not a real thing.

 

You don't see a rash of teams trading away players in the last year of their rookie deal because they haven't gotten an extension done before the season. The reasons for that are:

 

1.) When GM's draft a player, they do it with the expectation that they have them for *at least* 4-5 seasons under a cost controlled Rookie deal. GM's don't think "well, I may or may not be able to get him back, so let's cut this deal shorter"

 

2.) Teams aren't interested in making deals for people who are only under contract for 1 year. Why give up a pick when they'll be free to sign for nothing in a year? Why give up a pick when you don't know if you're going to have him longer than a year? If it were to happen, we'd get peanuts in return because of these reasons.

 

3.) If we cannot re-sign a player on a Rookie deal and he signs elsewhere for big money, you get a compensatory pick. And that pick is likely to be more than you'd get in a trade anyways.

 

It's all the rage to point to Edmunds and say "we didn't trade him and now we've lost him for nothing in return". But that's not true. We got that year out of him last season and we're getting a 3rd Round pick on top of it. Which is more than we'd have gotten trading him.

 

Long story short, Oliver was never going to be traded. And in the small chance it were to have happened, it would have been done by now.

 

Now it doesn't make any sense any way you look at it. Why would we make ourselves worse at starting 3T when we don't have to? There's no one out there that is better than him. 

 

Why would we need to at this point? Our roster is pretty much set at this point. Especially when it comes to starters. We've filled all of our needs already and just need some small finishing touches. We're going to give away a starter for some reserve players at other positions? How does that make sense?

Edited May 2, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Persistent about what? What exactly has changed? Trading Oliver has been a major discussion all offseason and they just signed a 5th DT that is a starter. What is the confusion?

I definitely recall folks suggesting that Oliver is best when he has a larger DT next to him. One could argue that signing Ford actually increases the likelihood that he stays, though I don't think Beane ever seriously entertained trading Oliver this year.

[DCbillsfan]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Persistent about what? What exactly has changed? Trading Oliver has been a major discussion all offseason and they just signed a 5th DT that is a starter. What is the confusion?

No confusion.  You want to trade Oliver who the Bills like to some extent and decided to do the 5th year option.  I don't think they're going to trade him.  Probably Edmunds scenario all over again.

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

$10 million in cap space.

 

So you would be OK with trading our starting 3-Tech Defensive Tackle for a late round draft pick, with the only benefit being that we gained some extra cap space?  This is also keeping in mind that:

1.  The only other 3-Tech DTs on our roster are Jordan Phillips (always hurt) and Tim Settle (below average)

2.  All the best free agents have been gone for months, and that $10 million would really only help sign veteran cap casualties.

 

In my opinion, our best bet is hoping Oliver plays great this season (similar to Tremaine Edmunds).  We reap the benefits of that great play for 2023.  If he wants to re-sign then great.  If not, we can get a 3rd-4th Round compensatory pick next season in return... which is higher than we would probably get trading him away right now.

 

[BuffaloRebound]

Looks like Settle will be inactive on game days unless there’s an injury.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, DCbillsfan said:

No confusion.  You want to trade Oliver who the Bills like to some extent and decided to do the 5th year option.  I don't think they're going to trade him.  Probably Edmunds scenario all over again.

I want to sign or trade Oliver. I don’t want to have him play out his contract and become a UFA.

 

I’m very clear about that.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Cannot wait for Highmark in unison to yell “Poooooooooooooo” when he makes a big play. 
 

Great signing. The off-season of big-n-nasty. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I want to sign or trade Oliver. I don’t want to have him play out his contract and become a UFA.

 

I’m very clear about that.

I think it's possible they extend him, especially if it helps facilitate bringing in a FA Edge this year. They're not trading him, so by your preferences that would be the best outcome.

[BillsFanForever19]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I want to sign or trade Oliver. I don’t want to have him play out his contract and become a UFA.

 

I’m very clear about that.

 

As I said above, you understand that if that happens and we can't afford him and lose him that we'd get a Comp pick in return right?

 

We're getting a 3rd for Edmunds. Which is more than we would have gotten trying to trade him last season.

 

Whatever we'd get for Oliver now would be the same or less than the comp pick we'd get. And we'd get this year out of him as well. 

[DC Greg]

4 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Beane said he has been talking to his people and he hopes to get it done. Whether that means before the season or after the season remains to be seen.

 

But this concept of "you have to get something for him before you lose him for nothing" is short sighted and not a real thing.

 

You don't see a rash of teams trading away players in the last year of their rookie deal because they haven't gotten an extension done before the season. The reasons for that are:

 

1.) When GM's draft a player, they do it with the expectation that they have them for *at least* 4-5 seasons under a cost controlled Rookie deal. GM's don't think "well, I may or may not be able to get him back, so let's cut this deal shorter"

 

2.) Teams aren't interested in making deals for people who are only under contract for 1 year. Why give up a pick when they'll be free to sign for nothing in a year? Why give up a pick when you don't know if you're going to have him longer than a year? If it were to happen, we'd get peanuts in return because of these reasons.

 

3.) If we cannot re-sign a player on a Rookie deal and he signs elsewhere for big money, you get a compensatory pick. And that pick is more likely to be more than you'd get in a trade anyways.

 

It's all the rage to point to Edmunds and say "we didn't trade him and now we've lost him for nothing in return". But that's not true. We got that year out of him last season and we're getting a 3rd Round pick on top of it. Which is more than we'd have gotten trading him.

 

Long story short, Oliver was never going to be traded. And in the small chance it were to have happened, it would have been done by now.

 

Now it doesn't make any sense any way you look at it. Why would we make ourselves worse at starting 3T when we don't have to? There's no one out there that is better than him. 

 

Why would we need to? Our roster is pretty much set at this point. Especially when it comes to starters. We're going to give away a starter for some reserve players at other positions? How does that make sense?

 

Very well said here. People seem to be a little confused about the value that players (especially mediocre ones) have in the final year of their deals. This isn't MLB/NHL. No one wants rentals. Ed Oliver has much more value to us playing this year for the Bills and seeing what happens.

[mjt328]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Persistent about what? What exactly has changed? Trading Oliver has been a major discussion all offseason and they just signed a 5th DT that is a starter. What is the confusion?

 

In our defensive scheme, the two starting Defensive Tackles have different roles.

 

Poona Ford was signed to backup DaQuan Jones at the 1-Tech spot.  This was the position that Star Lotulelei manned for a few years, and is more about occupying blockers than getting penetration.

 

Ed Oliver plays the 3-Tech spot.  His backups are Jordan Phillips and Tim Settle.

 

[Big Blitz]

36 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Melvin Ingram is violent.  Beane must be tired of seeing him on the other team causing havoc.....right?

He would have ended the Divisional at KC by himself if the QB wasn't Allen.  He was constantly in the backfield.  He was also a major reason we lost at Miami last season
 

 

 

Unless he was abusing 70 percent health Spencer Brown.  
 

But yea, he still has enough left in the tank to give us pass rush downs.  Rotate with Shaq and Groot.   

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I think it's possible they extend him, especially if it helps facilitate bringing in a FA Edge this year. They're not trading him, so by your preferences that would be the best outcome.

Whatever helps improve edge. Can’t rely on Von Miller again.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Whatever helps improve edge. Can’t rely on Von Miller again.

You're kind of gloomy. I think there's a reasonable chance Miller comes back earlier rather than later and returns to form. Whether that's true or not, it's a good idea to add an edge to augment the DL. Epenesa and Basham are Jags at best.

[Nitro]

Beane is having a great off season.  The FA talents and the draft is making the Bills stronger than ever.

[Warriorspikes51]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

You're kind of gloomy. I think there's a reasonable chance Miller comes back earlier rather than later and returns to form. Whether that's true or not, it's a good idea to add an edge to augment the DL. Epenesa and Basham are Jags at best.

 

Yes. in 2013, Von tore his ACL after 9 games. He then played all 16 games in 2014, had 14 sacks, 2nd team All-Pro

[frostbitmic]

515 defense time ...

 

Rousseau ... Daquan ... Poooooona ... Oliver ... Von

 

                                       Mint Milano

 

Elam                                                                             Tre'

                 Jonson

                                   Hyde        Poyer

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, mathja said:

 

 

You can take the question mark out of the title.  The Bills have reported this themselves

 

 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

You can take the question mark out of the title.  The Bills have reported this themselves

 

 

Big poon!

 

beane is bringing in the beef!

[Irv]

Varmint Pooona Tang

[Warriorspikes51]

3 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

515 defense time ...

 

Rousseau ... Daquan ... Poooooona ... Oliver ... Von

 

                                       Mint Milano

 

Elam                                                                             Tre'

                 Jonson

                                   Hyde        Poyer

I would actually like to see that formation sometimes. 

Especially if we sign a veteran Edge. Put the Edge in for Oliver, overload the 1 side next to Von

Also, sub Rapp in for Johnson and move him down to the box

Edited May 2, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[stlbills13]

I'm not a huge Oliver believer but contract years are a real thing and if he has a great season, we could be holding the Lombardi. If he prices himself out and we get a 3rd round pick, then that's perfectly fine with me. The Hopkins dream is dead so the cap space doesn't matter much to me

[Kornfed]

33 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Phillips was a beast until he was injured. Gotta hope he's in better shape this year. ..  ...Oliver has always struck me as not being overly bright but we should see the best of him in a contract year. 

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Big poon!

 

beane is bringing in the beef!

 

Waita minnut pro football reference has him at 5'11", 310 lbs - isn't he UNDERSIZED?

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Can you sell me on Oliver?  I really want to think his production is good, minus the stat sheet.  I was jumping for joy when we drafted him and now I'm just meh on him.

Is it inconsistency?  Lack of a good big man next to him?

 

My take on Oliver is that he was a great disruptor when healthy last year. His short arms are a problem for him as a finisher which is why his sack numbers tend to be low, but he at least has the ability to regularly get into the pocket and get the QB off his spot. The problem is he was injured for so much of the year that he lost his disruption.

 

I don't think it makes any sense to trade Oliver unless we're doing it as a means to get Hopkins. Just getting a mid round draft pick for him is not a good reason to get rid of him. He could still be a force for us this year if he stays healthy. The value he has on the team is greater than the value he has in a trade.

[Irv]

25 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

 

What kind of name is Poon, anyway?

 

 

It's Comanche Indian.  

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Floyd / Ingram / Ngakoue / Houston / Quinn
 

Is it too greedy that I want 2 of the above players (Ingram for sure)

Perfect now just trade AJ Epinesa and Boogie Basham

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

One could argue that Ford is/was one of the top five or so free agents left at ANY position.

He isn't like some of the edge rushers left, who are long in the tooth and whose best days are probably behind them. 

Ford is 27 and, theoretically, should be in the prime of his career. 

I'm trying to avoid saying that his addition to the Bills' d-line could pay HUGE dividends, but, well...

 

Well, that's certainly what the hope is....although the Dline did improve some last season (which is great and in the right direction), but also struggled a bit more than you'd want to see. 

 

Obviously the importance of this trickles down to the LBers. We saw how Edmunds improved last season and the Dline improvement certainly played a factor in that. Now we are between Dodson, Spector etc as of now and if that's the same when season starts then even greater the importance because the LBers may need all the help they can get.

 

[colin]

we got bigger on both lines over the past two offseasons.  we ran w rbs more consistently last year, and our run d was better than prior.  I think this is the final form for what mcd wants, the ability to go toe to toe as well as razzle dazzle.

[SCBills]

I’d entertain trading Oliver if it means being able to afford our choice of FA EDGE or a Hopkins trade, but other than that, I’ve come around to seeing what Oliver can do in a contract year now that we’ve got Jones & Ford for him to pair with.  
 

Im not even sure how we’re affording Poona Ford, but maybe he’s truly taking a one year prove it deal that doesn’t require all kinds of void year nonsense. 

[BUFFALOTONE]

39 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

Sometimes when you find yourself in a hole, you should stop digging. 

 

Your assertion that a bad defense can't have any good players is utterly moronic. All of your 'witty' comebacks don't make it any better. 

 

You even admitted that you didn't know anything about the player. So yes, you'll never achieve the level of acumen that a potato has, but keep on living in a world where you're truly 'special'. 

I asked a question, you had an arrogant response. I treated you like the simpleton you probably are, now go have a great day. 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Waita minnut pro football reference has him at 5'11", 310 lbs - isn't he UNDERSIZED?

 

I’d say that’s short … not small 

 

He’s definitely a penetrating  DT with some beef… as a DT 4 it’s money 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Buffalo716

[frostbitmic]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Waita minnut pro football reference has him at 5'11", 310 lbs - isn't he UNDERSIZED?

 

Sounds like he's as wide as he is tall

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I have to say that Beane clearly recognizes the same deficiencies that most fans do. He might not get it done in the exact order everyone on here wants him to…but he definitely has a plan. No telling whether it all works but it’s clearly not random. 
Go Bills 

 

I still worry about our lack of top end talent, especially if Von takes a while to get back to form and Tre never finds his old self, but with Allen at QB no question in my mind this is a championship caliber roster from top to bottom. If once again we suffer an uncompetitive playoff loss I'm pointing the finger at the coaches, not Beane. The talent is good enough. Figure out a way to make it work or I'll remain unconvinced that these coaches will ever make it work.

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, frostbitmic said:

Sounds like he's as wide as he is tall

Wonder if they call him Cube.

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Settle underwhelmed LY, and Phillips is a high injury risk each year.

 

Ed is their best 3-T, I'd be shocked if they are looking to shop him.

Settle is such an odd case because when Buffalo signed him countless Washington fans said how underrated he was.  He gets in Buffalo and proceeds to hardly do anything.  I’m not sure if he reaped the benefits of playing on a stacked DL in Washington or if he’s just not very good 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Who said Poona Ford was going to be the backup 1 tech?  Beane?   

 

Poona Ford has played his best football over the outside shoulder of the guard..........which is Ed Oliver's position in the Bills D.......3T.

 

I've always viewed him as a penetrating 3T.

 

 

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I’d say that’s short … not small 

 

He’s definitely a penetrating  DT with some beef… as a DT 4 it’s money 

 

Is he 3TDT then?  I was thinking 1T