Beane again showing why he is a top GM

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, mrags said:

Im simply saying I’ll wait and see before I claim it to be true. Like @NewEra said before, we will see what happens when they start playing. Until then it’s all speculation. 
 

I guess I’ll just have to live with the factual evidence that the players that have literally never done better than the ones they are replacing. 
 

I guess you and others will have to live in fairytale land where you wish and dream something to happen. 

 

You are the most confusing person to talk to.

Yep, those 6 more catches as a career high that McKenzie has over Harty is a big separator.

Last year Harty was injured.  So lets use Harty's 2021 and McKenzie's 2022 when they were both last healthy.

 

Harty - 36 catches, 570 yards, 15.9 yard average, 3 TD's/Starting QB's that year for the Saints (Trevor Siemian, Jamies Winston, Ian Book and Taysom Hill)

 

McKenzie - 42 catches, 423 yards, 10.1 yard average, 4 TD's/Starting QB's last year for the Bills (Josh Allen).

 

So yes, to predict that Harty can have better production than McKenzie is a fairy tale. Look at those numbers above....so lopsided in McKenzie's favor that it's not even close.  The QB situation cannot be used as an excuse because the talent level and stability is the same.  

 

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You are the most confusing person to talk to.

Yep, those 6 more catches as a career high that McKenzie has over Harty is a big separator.

Last year Harty was injured.  So lets use Harty's 2021 and McKenzie's 2022 when they were both last healthy.

 

Harty - 36 catches, 570 yards, 15.9 yard average, 3 TD's/Starting QB's that year for the Saints (Trevor Siemian, Jamies Winston, Ian Book and Taysom Hill)

 

McKenzie - 42 catches, 423 yards, 10.1 yard average, 4 TD's/Starting QB's last year for the Bills (Josh Allen).

 

So yes, to predict that Harty can have better production than McKenzie is a fairy tale. Look at those numbers above....so lopsided in McKenzie's favor that it's not even close.  The QB situation cannot be used as an excuse because the talent level and stability is the same.  

 

Just keep believing whatever you want man. Not sure why you keep bothering with me on this. 

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You are the most confusing person to talk to.

Yep, those 6 more catches as a career high that McKenzie has over Harty is a big separator.

Last year Harty was injured.  So lets use Harty's 2021 and McKenzie's 2022 when they were both last healthy.

 

Harty - 36 catches, 570 yards, 15.9 yard average, 3 TD's/Starting QB's that year for the Saints (Trevor Siemian, Jamies Winston, Ian Book and Taysom Hill)

 

McKenzie - 42 catches, 423 yards, 10.1 yard average, 4 TD's/Starting QB's last year for the Bills (Josh Allen).

 

So yes, to predict that Harty can have better production than McKenzie is a fairy tale. Look at those numbers above....so lopsided in McKenzie's favor that it's not even close.  The QB situation cannot be used as an excuse because the talent level and stability is the same.  

 

 

I will never understand why some people insist on making cases for players solely based on some stats they googled.  Literally lacks all the context needed to evaluate a player and is totally an unreliable way to analyze a player.  

 

There are so many things Harty does better than McKenzie, but just checking a stat sheet without context isn't going to give anyone that information.  Harty is a legit deep threat, a guy who can take the top off defenses.  McKenzie stunk as a deep threat because he really didn't play up to his speed, tracks the long ball poorly, can't make a contested catch, and had unreliable hands.  

 

[AuntieEm]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm not going to speak on others behalf.

 

I don't say facts unless they are legitimate facts and not opinions.  ,

 

There's two ways of looking at opinions on pretty much any subject in life...glass half full or half empty.  I'm not a pessimist in general.

 

  Indeed, the future holds good and bad things for everyone that's alive.  That's maybe the only fact I'd wager any big money on.  

Just now, AuntieEm said:

 

  Indeed, the future holds good and bad things for everyone that's alive.  That's maybe the only fact I'd wager any big money on. 

 

  However not everyone will see the good and bad in any event that happens.  I pretty much try to look at both the pros and cons to each event then decide if it was a good or bad thing.  

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Yes, consistent playoff football, putting us in a significantly greater position for a Super Bowl Championship for years to come. 

 

The real question is why you think replacing Beane will give you better results? Why are you so sure? Who is your replacement? 

 

Grass is always greener.

I just asked a question. I think Beane is a very good GM. He deserves lots of credit. Hands down.

 

Has he been flawless? No

 

Has he made mistakes? Yes

 

Have those mistake cost the Bills a chance to go further in the playoffs? Maybe

 

Can Beane make the right moves to get over the hump? Maybe

 

Are you ok with getting to the playoffs only to fizzle out? I'm not!

 

Do you think it's time for the Bills to take the next logical step? AFC championship game, SB appearence, SB win? Yes yes and yes. Two consecutive years of wasted opportunity.

 

At what point do you look to make organizational and coaching changes if the Bills falter? How many years?

 

For now, Beane deserves more time. Clearly, the goal is a SB. They haven't reached their goal. Part of that has to fall on Beane. He had 5 years of Allen and his rookie contract to get it done. Wasn't that the optimal time? He even mentioned this with the Bengals. 

 

In short, Beane is very good but he's fallen short thus far. Could he get it done soon. Yes and yes. His moves this off season indicate he's moving forward to win and win big. I like his aggressive moves. However, he put himself in a difficult position for the upcoming years.  At some point, I want more than what Beane had produced. Don't you? 

[Billz4ever]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

Being listed as a TE doesn’t change anything in my eyes.  What matters is what he will be for our offense. Capable of playing x, y and x. He’s going to line up everywhere. 

 

And he's a matchup nightmare, so in that sense, he brings more to the table than most WRs do.  He was listed on some boards as the best hands in this entire draft.  Higher than any of the WRs people here were drooling over.  If you watch his film, he also seems to have that knack of finding the holes in a zone, which is very difficult to learn and even more difficult to do consistently.  Some receivers never learn how to do it well.  Beasley was good at it, but he got older and slower.  

 

I don't know if Kincaid is going to be lights out, but we don't know that anyone else would be either.  But you look at the receiving corps this year compared to last, I don't know how anyone could possibly come away with the idea that it's not better than last year.  

 

Factor in the improvements made on the line, and I think we have a much more complete passing game.  The only wildcard to me is Dorsey.  I hope he's able to harness the weapons we have.

 

 

[Augie]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm not going to speak on others behalf.

 

 I don't say facts unless they are legitimate facts and not opinions.  ,

 

There's two ways of looking at opinions on pretty much any subject in life...glass half full or half empty.  I'm not a pessimist in general.

 

Well, that rules it out. You are definitely NOT my sister-in-law.  

[Nextmanup]

30 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Are you ok with getting to the playoffs only to fizzle out? I'm not!

I think MOST around here would say "YES!"

 

 

 

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Effort is commendable. It's a results orientated league. Has Beane done enough? Are you happy with the results?

His results are demonstrably better than 90% of the league.

[Success]

35 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I just asked a question. I think Beane is a very good GM. He deserves lots of credit. Hands down.

 

Has he been flawless? No

 

Has he made mistakes? Yes

 

Have those mistake cost the Bills a chance to go further in the playoffs? Maybe

 

Can Beane make the right moves to get over the hump? Maybe

 

Are you ok with getting to the playoffs only to fizzle out? I'm not!

 

Do you think it's time for the Bills to take the next logical step? AFC championship game, SB appearence, SB win? Yes yes and yes. Two consecutive years of wasted opportunity.

 

At what point do you look to make organizational and coaching changes if the Bills falter? How many years?

 

For now, Beane deserves more time. Clearly, the goal is a SB. They haven't reached their goal. Part of that has to fall on Beane. He had 5 years of Allen and his rookie contract to get it done. Wasn't that the optimal time? He even mentioned this with the Bengals. 

 

In short, Beane is very good but he's fallen short thus far. Could he get it done soon. Yes and yes. His moves this off season indicate he's moving forward to win and win big. I like his aggressive moves. However, he put himself in a difficult position for the upcoming years.  At some point, I want more than what Beane had produced. Don't you? 

 

Not unfair points.

 

But the GM can't control everything.  He can build a team that's capable of winning a championship - but then things fall to the players, coaches and circumstances.  Last year - at least to me - it was the last one.  The Bills were the best team in the league for long stretches, especially in the 1st few months.  Then, injury & a series of pretty tough circumstances followed.  

 

In the Cincy game, we looked like a team that was emotionally drained.  Some can call that an excuse, or say that a team should be able to rise above and all that - but that's all out of the scope of what a GM can do.  He put a team together that was capable of winning the SB - that can be said of the last 2 seasons, and I believe it can be said about the '23 team.  

 

 

[jkeerie]

14 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Not unfair points.

 

But the GM can't control everything.  He can build a team that's capable of winning a championship - but then things fall to the players, coaches and circumstances.  Last year - at least to me - it was the last one.  The Bills were the best team in the league for long stretches, especially in the 1st few months.  Then, injury & a series of pretty tough circumstances followed.  

 

In the Cincy game, we looked like a team that was emotionally drained.  Some can call that an excuse, or say that a team should be able to rise above and all that - but that's all out of the scope of what a GM can do.  He put a team together that was capable of winning the SB - that can be said of the last 2 seasons, and I believe it can be said about the '23 team.  

 

 

I totally agree with this.  Another thing that has impacted this team in the playoffs the last couple of years as been the defensive scheme.  One thing I noted about Frasier in Buffalo and when he was in Minnesota was that he became less agressive as the season wore on.  I think he saw the margin of error becoming less and less as the season went on, and thus coached more passively.  He coached not to lose, rather than to win.  I think of it as coaching scared.  I'm hoping we see a less conservative approach with McD calling the defensive shots.  We'll see.

[Chaos]

18 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Love to see the universal praise/support for McClappy slowly eroding from this forum.

 

More will follow after another failed campaign this year.

 

 

McDermott has done enough that if he makes it to the Super Bowl this year, his fans are entitled to say "I told you so".  If the Bills bow out at the divisional round or earlier, his critics are entitled to say "I told you so".  Its a pretty clear line. 

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, mrags said:

And I want to be shown proof before I get all giddy about things. 

Honestly, I think this is fair

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Last year Harty was injured.

 

According to Saints fans who openly mocked us on their forum for signing him, Harty is always injured.

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

According to Saints fans who openly mocked us on their forum for signing him, Harty is always injured.

I don't know if he will work out. I do know there was apparently competition for him, so GMs around the league thought differently. Your pessimism is tiresome, but at least you spelled the fella's name correctly.

[Einstein]

33 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

His results are demonstrably better than 90% of the league.

 

His results are the exact same as 96.875% of the league.

The one and only reason to play the season is to win a Super Bowl. Nothing else matters. There are no prizes for making the playoffs, only negatives (lower drafting spot).

 

It's Super Bowl or bust. 

So far, McBeane has busted. 

 

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I will never understand why some people insist on making cases for players solely based on some stats they googled.  Literally lacks all the context needed to evaluate a player and is totally an unreliable way to analyze a player. 

 

I completely agree and this is why I visit the forum of a new signing previous team to get an inside look at how that player really is. 

No one knows a players skills, flaws, annoyances, etc more intimately than the fans of the team that he has thrilled/bothered for the past however many years.

 

When you visit a forum and the general feeling is "thank goodness X player is gone", I know it's likely not going to be good. But when you visit their forum and the general consensus is "bummer, really wish we could have kept him", I start to feel really good about what we got.

[mrags]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

According to Saints fans who openly mocked us on their forum for signing him, Harty is always injured.

He’s missed 26 games over 4 years. He’s a poster boy for missing time. 

4 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't know if he will work out. I do know there was apparently competition for him, so GMs around the league thought differently. Your pessimism is tiresome, but at least you spelled the fella's name correctly.

When you do all this on your cell phone and it doesn’t recognize Harty and always corrects it to hardy it’s tough. And honestly, people should just relax about spelling, punctuation and grammar. It’s a freaking message board not a letter to the senate. 

[teef]

15 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

According to Saints fans who openly mocked us on their forum for signing him, Harty is always injured.

Show me. 

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't know if he will work out. I do know there was apparently competition for him, so GMs around the league thought differently.

 

Is this a fact? Do you have a source link or tweet for this info? If so, it would definitely make me feel better about the player.

 

3 minutes ago, teef said:

Show me. 

 

Here you go:

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/246447-possible-mckenzie-replacement-bills-sign-deonte-harty-formally-deonte-harris/?do=findComment&comment=8315245

 

[newcam2012]

33 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Not unfair points.

 

But the GM can't control everything.  He can build a team that's capable of winning a championship - but then things fall to the players, coaches and circumstances.  Last year - at least to me - it was the last one.  The Bills were the best team in the league for long stretches, especially in the 1st few months.  Then, injury & a series of pretty tough circumstances followed.  

 

In the Cincy game, we looked like a team that was emotionally drained.  Some can call that an excuse, or say that a team should be able to rise above and all that - but that's all out of the scope of what a GM can do.  He put a team together that was capable of winning the SB - that can be said of the last 2 seasons, and I believe it can be said about the '23 team.  

 

 

That's more than fair. It's not all on Beane. The coaches and the players certainly have to better as well.

 

I think it's safe to say the Bills coaching staff has been out coached in many playoff games. Fraizer's defense couldn't get it done! Really nothing more to say there. Dorsey was learning on the job. McD and 13 seconds. No need to elaborate. 

 

No need to call out players. Just saying they need to improve and execute at a higher level.

 

In concluding, the Bills are a very good team. A team that is more than capable of representing the AFC. A team that can hoist a Lombardi. Fact remains they haven't and that's what frustrates me as a fan.

 

It's one thing getting beat by a better team. I can totally tip my hand to the opponent. It's another getting beat because your coaches were out coached, out schemed, players didn't execute, etc. 

 

I have a difficult time believing KC was a better team 2 years ago. I have a hard time thinking Cinci was better than us last year. Maybe I'm wrong...

[teef]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Is this a fact? Do you have a source link or tweet for this info? If so, it would definitely make me feel better about the player.

 

 

Here you go:

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/246447-possible-mckenzie-replacement-bills-sign-deonte-harty-formally-deonte-harris/?do=findComment&comment=8315245

 

You feel like this is being mocked?   The last time you thought someone mocked us, it was because someone on twitter used a laughing emoji. 

[WotAGuy]

10 minutes ago, mrags said:

And honestly, people should just relax about spelling, punctuation and grammar. 

No and Hell No!

Once we relax about spelling, punctuation and grammar, we’ll be reduced to nothing more than animals. Next thing you know there will be legalized gambling and weed. I’m not living in THAT world, mister. 

[newcam2012]

57 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

His results are demonstrably better than 90% of the league.

Marty Schottomheimer says hi.

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I think MOST around here would say "YES!"

 

 

 

I think you are correct. For me it's a "NO!" 

 

Agree to disagree.

[teef]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I think MOST around here would say "YES!"

 

 

 

Oh sure!   People would be ok with this!   You have such high standards that no one else has.  Thank god you are here. 

[newcam2012]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't know if he will work out. I do know there was apparently competition for him, so GMs around the league thought differently. Your pessimism is tiresome, but at least you spelled the fella's name correctly.

Pessimism is a needed element on this forum. One can with validity make the opposite claim. A balance of the two would be optimal in my eyes. 

 

Imho, there are plenty of reasons to feel optimistic or pessimistic. 

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Pessimism is a needed element on this forum. One can with validity make the opposite claim. A balance of the two would be optimal in my eyes. 

 

Imho, there are plenty of reasons to feel optimistic or pessimistic. 

Well, it's good to know you are here for the general optimization of the board.

[Eastport bills]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Effort is commendable. It's a results orientated league. Has Beane done enough? Are you happy with the results?

Results started counting 2 years ago when Diggs was acquired. In 2021 most objective observers would have said the Bills should have gotten to the AFC championship if not for Sean’s soul crushing “13 seconds “ choke job. With a potential championship game in Buffalo, against an upstart Cinn. team, getting to a SB would have been  feasible. Last year a 13 and 3 season spiraled out of control in the playoffs. Many factors contributed to the meltdown. Frazier was the wrong DC for our defensive personnel. With the loss of Miller, Hyde and an injury  riddled White, our defense got manhandled and looked like a beaten club in the 1st Qtr. The emotional roller coaster with Hamlin and record breaking storms didn’t help. Our rookie OC was a work in progress and made tactical errors in game planning. Having listed all the  excuses, any fan of any NFL team other than KC, would give their house for those results.

[machine gun kelly]

41 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

That's more than fair. It's not all on Beane. The coaches and the players certainly have to better as well.

 

I think it's safe to say the Bills coaching staff has been out coached in many playoff games. Fraizer's defense couldn't get it done! Really nothing more to say there. Dorsey was learning on the job. McD and 13 seconds. No need to elaborate. 

 

No need to call out players. Just saying they need to improve and execute at a higher level.

 

In concluding, the Bills are a very good team. A team that is more than capable of representing the AFC. A team that can hoist a Lombardi. Fact remains they haven't and that's what frustrates me as a fan.

 

It's one thing getting beat by a better team. I can totally tip my hand to the opponent. It's another getting beat because your coaches were out coached, out schemed, players didn't execute, etc. 

 

I have a difficult time believing KC was a better team 2 years ago. I have a hard time thinking Cinci was better than us last year. Maybe I'm wrong...

That was an incredibly honest and pragmatic answer.  Thanks newcam.

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, it's good to know you are here for the general optimization of the board.

Thanks Doc. I can feel your love. Xoxoxo

3 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Results started counting 2 years ago when Diggs was acquired. In 2021 most objective observers would have said the Bills should have gotten to the AFC championship if not for Sean’s soul crushing “13 seconds “ choke job. With a potential championship game in Buffalo, against an upstart Cinn. team, getting to a SB would have been  feasible. Last year a 13 and 3 season spiraled out of control in the playoffs. Many factors contributed to the meltdown. Frazier was the wrong DC for our defensive personnel. With the loss of Miller, Hyde and an injury  riddled White, our defense got manhandled and looked like a beaten club in the 1st Qtr. The emotional roller coaster with Hamlin and record breaking storms didn’t help. Our rookie OC was a work in progress and made tactical errors in game planning. Having listed all the  excuses, any fan of any NFL team other than KC, would give their house for those results.

Very fair post. I don't disagree with a lot of what you said. 

[Einstein]

57 minutes ago, teef said:

You feel like this is being mocked?   The last time you thought someone mocked us, it was because someone on twitter used a laughing emoji. 

 

Yeah i’d say posts like “massive overpay”, “Buffalo did us a favor”, and “That is an expensive addition to their Tub Club” are mocking.

 

And if you were being honest, you would admit it as well.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yeah i’d say posts like “massive overpay”, “Buffalo did us a favor”, and “That is an expensive addition to their Tub Club” are mocking.

 

And if you were being honest, you would admit it as well.

You went through and cherry picked a number of random comments from another teams message board.  That’s who you are.  It’s not an accurate representation of anything, yet you took the time and effort to it that post together.   You try so hard to be the contrarian.  Someone from a bears message board could have done the same thing after edmunds was signed.   

[Dr. Who]

23 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Thanks Doc. I can feel your love. Xoxoxo

Very fair post. I don't disagree with a lot of what you said. 

From now on I am going to think of you as Broccoli. I'm told it is supposed to be good for you.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

You went through and cherry picked a number of random comments from another teams message board. 

 

If you’re going to lie, you might as well make up something even more outlandish. How about “Einstein tortured the responses out of the Saints fans!”

 

If you had bothered to be an honest poster and read all the quotes, you would have seen I posted a mix of both positive and negative. 

 

But you couldn’t help yourself. Because you’d rather be dishonest and continue your narrative.

[teef]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

If you’re going to lie, you might as well make up something even more outlandish. How about “Einstein tortured the responses out of the Saints fans!”

 

If you had bothered to be an honest poster and read all the quotes, you would have seen I posted a mix of both positive and negative. 

 

But you couldn’t help yourself. Because you’d rather be dishonest and continue your narrative.

What in the world did I lie about? 

[Einstein]

Just now, teef said:

What in the world did I lie about? 

 

Way to not read the post that talked about you not reading posts.

 

I literally said what you lied about IN the post you quoted.

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

 

I have a difficult time believing KC was a better team 2 years ago. I have a hard time thinking Cinci was better than us last year. Maybe I'm wrong...

I don't believe KC was.  Bills and KC were pretty even.  By the end of the year Cinci was better.  It would have been a better gauge had we played them at the beginning of the season, when the Bills were healthy.

[teef]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Way to not read the post that talked about you not reading posts.

 

I literally said what you lied about IN the post you quoted.

You’re getting upset for a reason. Why pick and choose specific quotes?   Why not link the entire thread?   Listen…post how you want to.  You’re officially now  the guy who claims if the bills haven’t won the Super Bowl yet, there’s nothing good to be said.  Be that poster.  If it give you meaning and makes you feel better in some way, I support you. 

[Einstein]

14 minutes ago, teef said:

You’re getting upset for a reason.

 

Im not upset, i’m just calling you out on your BS.

 

14 minutes ago, teef said:

Why pick and choose specific quotes?   Why not link the entire thread?  

 

Oh, look, another lie. The link to the Saints forum thread is literally in the post with all the quotes. Ya know, the post you didn’t actually read but continue to talk about as if you did.

[teef]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Im not upset, i’m just calling you out on your BS.

 

 

Oh, look, another lie. The link to the Saints forum thread is literally in the post with all the quotes. Ya know, the post you didn’t actually read but continue to talk about as if you did.

Fair enough, but there’s nothing in there at all “mocking” the bills.  At all. You look for the negative.  That fine.  This team won 13 games last year.  Not the Super Bowl, but a ton of games.  It’s not good enough, but it’s good.  You can consistently look for the negative in an effort to seem intelligent, or you can have a solid discussion, (not saying I’m a part of anything constructive).   You’ve taken the Super Bowl or this staff sucks approach.  It’s basic and simple.  I get it.  You may not be wrong at the end of the day, but it’s football and should be fun. If you need a message board to feel smart…good luck 

[newcam2012]

36 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

From now on I am going to think of you as Broccoli. I'm told it is supposed to be good for you.

I'll take that!