Bears to trade #1 overall pick to Panthers

[Don Otreply]

13 hours ago, Chaos said:

Hurts, Lance/Purdy, Burrows all disagree. 

Again, “the majority of  teams”, four is not a majority by any measure, 

[PetermansRedemption]

7 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

Bears traded the #1 pick to the panthers!! I love it

 

Bears get:

DJ Moore 
#9 pick this year
2nd rounder this year
Next years 1st rounder 
2025 2nd rounder

and Panthers get their franchise QB

 

Good trade for both sides.

 

if I were the bears I would’ve traded Fields and drafted Young. You get a couple more years of a cheap franchise QB who is a better passer than Fields but I get it. I think this was the perfect trade for both sides since the bears were staying with fields. 
 

Panthers could easily win the division as soon as this year with Reich and mccown having a clean slate leading Young or even Stroud. 
 

Hopefully more of these young QBs start heading to the NFC from now on

If they hit on their lottery ticket they do. Still around 20% chance of they happening. Look at the great QB class of 2018. 

[BarleyNY]

8 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Anthony Richardson is a lot like Josh Allen as far as what he can do as a runner. He’s tall, he’s well built, he’s physical, he’s a load to bring down.

 

Would I trade multiple first round picks to move up and get him? NO. But if I’m a team picking in the top 10, I would take him in a heartbeat.

 

Basically Anthony Richardson is an extremely nice project if you’re a team that is patient and willing to develop a QB. He has a big arm and if he develops as a passer he’s easily in the upper echelon of starting QBs in the NFL.

 

Is he JaMarcus Russell? Or is he Josh Allen? Only time will tell.

Richardson will be very interesting to watch develop. So much depends on the team that takes him. Looking forward to seeing it. 

[mannc]

15 hours ago, Draconator said:

 

Wow, great trade for the Bears. Exactly what they needed.  IMO, none of these QBs is worth that much, but Carolina had to do something like this.

[mannc]

15 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That's the thought. Unless we get another "Baker Mayfield" genius type decision.

 

 

Compensation seems light to me. I guess since they are staying in the top 10 it isnt so bad, but all they got extra was another 1st, a 2nd, an equivalent 4th (2 yr 2nd), and WR Moore. Surprised they couldnt milk more from Indy.

 

Disagree.  I think it’s a really nice haul in a year where there’s no great QB prospects.  Excellent move for Chicago.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Has to be for Stroud. That dude is a boss

[C.Biscuit97]

15 hours ago, stevestojan said:

I’m admittedly not a big college football guy, but did I miss a generational QB coming up in this draft? 

People will tell you no and I kind agree but guess what? Most people have no idea what they are talking about. 2017 was supposed to be a bad qb draft. Well if produced pre-rapist Watson and Mahomes, who are top 5 qbs, who went after tribusky. Allen’s draft was supposed to be a legendary one and the lowest drafted ones - Allen and Jackson are the only good ones. No one thought Herbert was going to be this good. Despite people acting like they know, they don’t know anything. 😉

 

so if the panthers put this new guy in a good situation like the bills and chiefs (read about terrible of an idea it was trading up for Mahomes was during his draft!) did with their guys and he definitely be worth the price. The panthers have a really good defense and a bunch of cap room. 

 

I absolute love this deal for the Bears. Fields has dog crap talent around him.  They go from maybe the worst offensive talent do a very good receiving group. Now need to build up the o line. I think Fields will take a huge step forward and the bears might be the most improved team in the nfl. I’m hammering their over in wins. 

44 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Richardson will be very interesting to watch develop. So much depends on the team that takes him. Looking forward to seeing it. 

Agreed. He was the prospect like Allen that I absolutely loved in the later rounds but hated as a high pick because they should be more polished. But I think nfl thinking has changed. They used the dual threat and rpos so much more in the pros. Also, some nfl coaches just think they are probably better coaches than colleges ones.

 

 

[NeverOutNick]

23 minutes ago, mannc said:

Wow, great trade for the Bears. Exactly what they needed.  IMO, none of these QBs is worth that much, but Carolina had to do something like this.

I agree, but I also think the Bears will be finishing bottom third in the rankings again next year so at least having two first round picks, can get them in position to draft Maye next year. I’ll root for fields to do well, but if we’re being honest, he improved in his play this year and they still were the worst team in football. I don’t think his ceiling is much higher than what he did this year. But I hope I’m wrong.

 

Another way to look at it. Joe Burrow went to an inept Bengals team and although a torn ACL his rookie year got them the #4 pick and Chase, they haven’t sniffed the NFLs gutter since. It’s hard to find these Franchise QBs but I don’t think teams should settle for what they have when in a position to keep swinging until they hit on one. 
 

This is the make or break year for Fields. He has Moore and Claypool and I’m sure the bears will invest more (no pun intended) around him to give him every opportunity to be successful. 
 

Panthers get, according to vegas, CJ stroud. He throws the prettiest most catchable ball in this class. I love the way he drops it in to his WRs on intermediate routes. I question his decision making and deep ball accuracy but he’s got Frank Reich and Josh Mccown. He also seems to have a good head on his shoulders from listening to him talk. I don’t love any of these QBs but I think he’s going to be set up for really good success early on in. That garbage division. 
 

Great trade now let’s hope the bills can trade a couple orders of Duffs wings for Deandre Hopkins and sign Lavonte David before this draft

[C.Biscuit97]

10 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

its a roll of the dice you want to take. most werent exactly drooling over Hurts or Herbert.... or josh lol instinct is to say i like the bears side better but teams have been wrong about this kinda thing a lot

2 - 1 = 1 huh?  is that pick this year or next year lol

Yup. It’s hilarious watching people dismiss qb prospects so early. I didn’t believe in Allen and couldn’t have been more wrong. I still tend to favor guys who weren’t playing with a ton of talent (Alabama) and were productive players. But Allen’s success broke me brain so I can’t dismiss anyone with any certainty.

4 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

I agree, but I also think the Bears will be finishing bottom third in the rankings again next year so at least having two first round picks, can get them in position to draft Maye next year. I’ll root for fields to do well, but if we’re being honest, he improved in his play this year and they still were the worst team in football. I don’t think his ceiling is much higher than what he did this year. But I hope I’m wrong.

 

Another way to look at it. Joe Burrow went to an inept Bengals team and although a torn ACL his rookie year got them the #4 pick and Chase, they haven’t sniffed the NFLs gutter since. It’s hard to find these Franchise QBs but I don’t think teams should settle for what they have when in a position to keep swinging until they hit on one. 
 

This is the make or break year for Fields. He has Moore and Claypool and I’m sure the bears will invest more (no pun intended) around him to give him every opportunity to be successful. 
 

Panthers get, according to vegas, CJ stroud. He throws the prettiest most catchable ball in this class. I love the way he drops it in to his WRs on intermediate routes. I question his decision making and deep ball accuracy but he’s got Frank Reich and Josh Mccown. He also seems to have a good head on his shoulders from listening to him talk. I don’t love any of these QBs but I think he’s going to be set up for really good success early on in. That garbage division. 
 

Great trade now let’s hope the bills can trade a couple orders of Duffs wings for Deandre Hopkins and sign Lavonte David before this draft

That’s a great point too. That outdated idea of drafting a wrong qb setting franchise back like 10 years is dumb. The bears get to see what fields, who’s one of the most physically talented qbs in the nfl, gets to do with legit talent around him. And if he’s not good enough, they have a ton of ammo to get a new guy. Great job by them.

 

also, awesome FU by Lovie to the Texans.

Edited March 11, 2023 by C.Biscuit97

[Sestak4ever]

It’s an odd trade. Based on what I’ve read the Panthers like a few of the quarterbacks and are not focused on just one. It’s not like there is an Andrew Luck or Elway out there where everyone sees them as a can’t miss prospect, head and shoulders above everyone else. Reich got tired of coaching without a reliable qb. Hope they pick the right guy. At the combine I was impressed with Levis from Kentucky. Nice compact throwing motion and a strong arm. We’ll see.

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

It’s an odd trade. Based on what I’ve read the Panthers like a few of the quarterbacks and are not focused on just one. It’s not like there is an Andrew Luck or Elway out there where everyone sees them as a can’t miss prospect, head and shoulders above everyone else. Reich got tired of coaching without a reliable qb. Hope they pick the right guy. At the combine I was impressed with Levis from Kentucky. Nice compact throwing motion and a strong arm. We’ll see.

Mahomes wasn’t a can’t miss prospect like luck and KC got laughed at for trading up. Imagine how that looks now. The bills should have gotten 5 1st rounds pick at least. 
 

the panthers have a pretty solid team. They have a sneaky good defense and before he went wirh all retread qbs, reich was one of the better qb coaches in the league.  They can draft a guy and put him in an Allen type situation where he doesn’t have to carry the team and grow. I like this move for them and love it for the bears. 

[Ya Digg?]

I think it’s hilarious reading through the comments and the amount of people saying the Panthers got hosed and then there is just as many people saying the Bears got hosed! Guess that means it’s actually probably a pretty even trade 

[Airseven]

12 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

It’s an odd trade. Based on what I’ve read the Panthers like a few of the quarterbacks and are not focused on just one. It’s not like there is an Andrew Luck or Elway out there where everyone sees them as a can’t miss prospect, head and shoulders above everyone else. Reich got tired of coaching without a reliable qb. Hope they pick the right guy. At the combine I was impressed with Levis from Kentucky. Nice compact throwing motion and a strong arm. We’ll see.

I like the trade for both teams.

 

Panthers could still trade down (Indy?), recoup assets (‘24 1st?), and still get a top 3 QB if they aren’t enamored with Stroud. Essentially it’d be a means to move into the top 4 for a top 3 QB prospect and not having to be without a 1st next year.

[DrDawkinstein]

16 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

2 1sts (at least 1 inside the top 10 still)

2 2nds

& DJ Moore (25 years old) who would fetch a first rounder as well.  

 

Great deal for the Bears!

 

16 hours ago, Virgil said:

I just checked the trade chart.  If you think that DJ Moore is worth a late first round pick, then it’s fair.  

 

I feel like teams usually have overpay to get into the top 5.  I don’t think Moore would fetch a late first round pick, so it seems like the Panthers paid under value.  
 

With so many teams wanting a QB, I expected more competition

 

Exactly how the Bears valued Moore since they pushed for him over a 2025 1st.

 

 

 

 

57 minutes ago, mannc said:

Disagree.  I think it’s a really nice haul in a year where there’s no great QB prospects.  Excellent move for Chicago.

 

I think its a great move for the Bears and said as much in another post. I was just surprised at the compensation after a couple of crazy years of big hauls to move up. I'm thinking like what Philly gave up to get Wentz, Rams to get Goff, type of deals. To get up to #1, I expected a big pile of 1sts and 2nds. But good for both teams. Chicago gets a great WR for Fields and a handful of decent picks to work with. Better than just that #1 overall in a weak draft.

[BBFL]

2 minutes ago, Airseven said:

I like the trade for both teams.

 

Panthers could still trade down (Indy?), recoup assets (‘24 1st?), and still get a top 3 QB if they aren’t enamored with Stroud. Essentially it’d be a means to move into the top 4 for a top 3 QB prospect and not having to be without a 1st next year.

There is absolutely no way they trade out of that spot now they are there. You need a QB. Whether you get the wrong or right one @ 4/5/6/7 etc. is at the decision of other teams and how the draft falls. 
 

They are guaranteed to have the pick for franchise QB in their own control. 
 

If, idiotically, they trade out of that just for assets then why trade to 1 to begin with just to have a potential crapshoot? You’ve given up one of the few proven “assets” the team actually had in Moore…

[Process]

Moore would absolutely go for a first round pick if not more. If it wasn't for the cap I'd give 27 for him in a heartbeat.

 

Great trade for the bears.

[DrDawkinstein]

15 hours ago, Chaos said:

Hurts, Lance/Purdy, Burrows all disagree. 

 

Why is Burrow mentioned in this group?

[Buffalo03]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Yup.  If you do the draft pick chart value calculation it would've been close to an even trade without DJ Moore.  The Panthers were desperate and the Bears took advantage.  If Carolina gets a franchise QB though it's a win/win trade.

Yeah, a franchise QB with who to throw to? Dj Moore? Nope. Christian McCaffrey? Nope. They have no 1st or 2nd this year now, no 1st round pick next year, no 2nd round pick the year after, they better have a GM that knows what he's doing because with 2 sides of the team to build, it's gonna be hard without all that draft capital to do things. I personally don't believe giving up 4 draft picks and a premier player for one player. I don't care about what a chart says

[T master]

Frank is ecstatic !!!!

[Chaos]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Why is Burrow mentioned in this group?

Successful QB on a rookie contract

Edited March 11, 2023 by Chaos

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Successful QB on a rookie contract

 

Oh, I thought you were talking about teams that picked another QB while they had one on the roster already.

 

But to the point of success with a QB on a rookie contract, how many/which teams have won a Super Bowl with a QB on a rookie contract in the last 20 years?

[Chaos]

24 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Oh, I thought you were talking about teams that picked another QB while they had one on the roster already.

 

But to the point of success with a QB on a rookie contract, how many/which teams have won a Super Bowl with a QB on a rookie contract in the last 20 years?

Since 2012, Russell Wilson (2013), Nick Foles (2017) and Patrick Mahomes (2019).

  Since 2012 3 QBS on Rookie QBs won Super Bowls. Tom Brady won 4 Super Bowls.  All other QBs combined 3 Super Bowls. 

[Mr. WEO]

18 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Panthers made a good deal. 
 

They obviously found someone they like and are swinging hard to find a QB at the top of the draft. It’s worth a shot to take your pick of the draft when the time is right.
 

 

Bears made out pretty well considering there wasn’t anyone that would be worth a #1 pick that was not a QB given the compensation received. 

 

 

Everyone knew the Bears were looking to get rid of #1 .....but That's a massive haul Carolina gave up to pick from one of the more mediocre QB classes in a while.

 

lol, Panthers.

[WotAGuy]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Everyone knew the Bears were looking to get rid of #1 .....but That's a massive haul Carolina gave up to pick from one of the more mediocre QB classes in a while.

 

lol, Panthers.

Hey, at least they are giving it a shot. If the guy they select works out, it’s a home run. The 2018 draft was supposed to be a good one for QBs and most of them are stiffs. So while you say it’s a mediocre class, all they need is one guy to pan out - the one they pick. 

[HappyDays]

 

[Sestak4ever]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes wasn’t a can’t miss prospect like luck and KC got laughed at for trading up. Imagine how that looks now. The bills should have gotten 5 1st rounds pick at least. 
 

the panthers have a pretty solid team. They have a sneaky good defense and before he went wirh all retread qbs, reich was one of the better qb coaches in the league.  They can draft a guy and put him in an Allen type situation where he doesn’t have to carry the team and grow. I like this move for them and love it for the bears. 

Can say the same for a few qb's, however there are more JaMarcus Russells, Brady Quinns, David Carrs, Ryan Leafs, Harringtons, etc.  You just never know, especially how quickly they can process what is happening on the field. I wish Reich the best of luck as I think he is a very good head coach. The success of the trade is strictly based on how well all the draft picks perform in the pros. As always, time will tell.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Since 2012, Russell Wilson (2013), Nick Foles (2017) and Patrick Mahomes (2019).

  Since 2012 3 QBS on Rookie QBs won Super Bowls. Tom Brady won 4 Super Bowls.  All other QBs combined 3 Super Bowls. 

 

Foles wasnt on a rookie contract in 2017. It was already his 6th season and he was back to Philly on a FA contract.

 

But that is 2 QBs (Wilson '13, Mahomes '19) who won the Super Bowl while still on their rookie contract in the last 20 years. I guess if we said 25 years, that gets Brady in there for 3. But 3 in 25 years isnt much better.

 

Doesnt seem to be a big correlation between QBs on rookie deals and winning Super Bowls.

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by DrDawkinstein
typo

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Foles wasnt on a rookie contract in 2017. It was already his 7th season and he was back to Philly on a FA contract.

 

But that is 2 QBs (Wilson '13, Mahomes '19) who won the Super Bowl while still on their rookie contract in the last 20 years. I guess if we said 25 years, that gets Brady in there for 3. But 3 in 25 years isnt much better.

 

Doesnt seem to be a big correlation between QBs on rookie deals and winning Super Bowls.

Yes because 25 years ago is a relevent to today's salary cap and free agent rules as the last 10 years. 

[Alphadawg7]

19 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Tepper was desperate.

What a massive gift the Texans gave the Bears.  That trade haul was a massive home run for the Bears.  I am surprised the Panthers included More who would have been a valuable piece for the new QB.  Especially since they could have probably just traded Moore on his own somewhere else and regained one of those premium draft picks.  
 

Agree this wreaks of desperation by the Panthers

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Yes because 25 years ago is a relevent to today's salary cap and free agent rules as the last 10 years. 

 

25 years ago had all the same modern FA structure. You'd have to go to the mid-90s to get past when the Salary Cap and FA modernized.

 

But sure, I'll give you just the last 10 years. That's 2. Again, not quite a strong argument with just 20%.

 

It makes sense that it should be easier for teams ith QBs on rookie contracts. The logic is clear. But it doesnt seem to play out that way when it comes to results.

[Chaos]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

25 years ago had all the same modern FA structure. You'd have to go to the mid-90s to get past when the Salary Cap and FA modernized.

 

But sure, I'll give you just the last 10 years. That's 2. Again, not quite a strong argument with just 20%.

 

It makes sense that it should be easier for teams ith QBs on rookie contracts. The logic is clear. But it doesnt seem to play out that way when it comes to results.

You really don't seem to get the point.  The best strategy in the last 25 years was to have Tom Brady as QB.  The next best strategy was to have one of the other top 5 QBs.  By definition, 26  teams don't get to use the strategy of having a top 6 QB.  The remaining choices are to go with mid tier QBs, ie the Kirk Cousins, Derek Carrs of the world, or try to build around a future star QB on a rookie contract.    This last choise is why the Panthers traded up.  Literally no one is arguing it is the best or the only way to go.  I am sure Reich would rather have Mahomes or Allen.   Simply not choice. Among the available choices, this is what the Panthers chose to do. Unless they don't draft a QB in the draft, this is simply a fact, not an opinion or discussion point. 

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Chaos said:

You really don't seem to get the point.  The best strategy in the last 25 years was to have Tom Brady as QB.  The next best strategy was to have one of the other top 5 QBs.  By definition, 26  teams don't get to use the strategy of having a top 6 QB.  The remaining choices are to go with mid tier QBs, ie the Kirk Cousins, Derek Carrs of the world, or try to build around a future star QB on a rookie contract.    This last choise is why the Panthers traded up.  Literally no one is arguing it is the best or the only way to go.  I am sure Reich would rather have Mahomes or Allen.   Simply not choice. Among the available choices, this is what the Panthers chose to do. Unless they don't draft a QB in the draft, this is simply a fact, not an opinion or discussion point. 

 

Ah, word. Completely agree with the bold. I'd rather roll the dice on a rookie with a rookie contract than pay big money to the mid tier guys.

 

[mannc]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

What a massive gift the Texans gave the Bears.  That trade haul was a massive home run for the Bears.  I am surprised the Panthers included More who would have been a valuable piece for the new QB.  Especially since they could have probably just traded Moore on his own somewhere else and regained one of those premium draft picks.  
 

Agree this wreaks of desperation by the Panthers

What did the Texans give the Bears?

 

Yep, it's a huge haul, but you have to assume there were other teams bidding for the pick, probably Indy, Washington, and maybe others.  This was just what the market dictated.  If Fields can take a step forward, which I think he definitely can, the Bears have set themselves up very nicely.

[chongli]

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by chongli

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

What did the Texans give the Bears?

 

Yep, it's a huge haul, but you have to assume there were other teams bidding for the pick, probably Indy, Washington, and maybe others.  This was just what the market dictated.  If Fields can take a step forward, which I think he definitely can, the Bears have set themselves up very nicely.

Bears only got the first pick because Houston won their last game of the season or Houston would have had the top pick.  

[mannc]

22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Bears only got the first pick because Houston won their last game of the season or Houston would have had the top pick.  

True, but I assume the Texans would have kept the first pick and taken a QB, and the Bears still could have gotten a nice haul for the second overall pick. 

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

True, but I assume the Texans would have kept the first pick and taken a QB, and the Bears still could have gotten a nice haul for the second overall pick. 

I doubt Carolina gives them this same package to take the second QB in the draft though if Houston had the top pick

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I doubt Carolina gives them this same package to take the second QB in the draft though if Houston had the top pick

Yeah, no question the haul would have been lighter, and they might have had to wait until draft day to finalize the trade, but the Bears still would have come out of it very nicely.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

Yeah, no question the haul would have been lighter, and they might have had to wait until draft day to finalize the trade, but the Bears still would have come out of it very nicely.

Yeah, agree they likely still make a trade and get a nice haul.  My original comment was that Texans gave them a gift of getting even more by just having won their last game and giving them the top pick.  

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yeah, agree they likely still make a trade and get a nice haul.  My original comment was that Texans gave them a gift of getting even more by just having won their last game and giving them the top pick.  

Thanks, Lovie!