QB Derek Carr to Saints on a 4 year $150 mil deal w/ $70 mil fully guaranteed

[Big Turk]

Just got the update on my phone...will post details when I find them

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Big Turk

[Special K]

The Saints are always in “cap hell”, yet they always seem to sign whoever they want.

[mushypeaches]

2 minutes ago, Special K said:

The Saints are always in “cap hell”, yet they always seem to sign whoever they want.

 

Well, they're welcome to Derek Carr and all of the underwhelming mediocrity that he's sure to bring...

 

If you don't have a Top 10 QB and you're not ready to win NOW, you as the GM are committing an ad of idiocy if you aren't just drafting a QB and/or playing the young QB that you have.  Signing a mid-level vet like Carr does nothing except kick the can down the road

 

 

[nucci]

6 minutes ago, Special K said:

The Saints are always in “cap hell”, yet they always seem to sign whoever they want.

because there is no such thing. Same with the Bills

Edited March 6, 2023 by nucci

[Special K]

Just now, nucci said:

because there is no such thing

 

That’s my point!

[NewEra]

Dam!!  Was hoping he’d sign with the jets and soak up all their salary 

[BuffaloBaumer]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Dam!!  Was hoping he’d sign with the jets and soak up all their salary 

You should be ecstatic with Carr going to the Saints. Rodgers will be 50 million and draft picks which will screw the Jets. Rodgers has a couple years left, if that.

[Gregg]

Just now, BuffaloBaumer said:

You should be ecstatic with Carr going to the Saints. Rodgers will be 50 million and draft picks which will screw the Jets. Rodgers has a couple years left, if that.

 

Have to figure GB's asking price went up bigtime now that Carr is off the market. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Special K said:

The Saints are always in “cap hell”, yet they always seem to sign whoever they want.

 

They have also lost players along the way.  They already had to restructure Davis and Hill and are going to have to cut, extend, or restructure these contracts at least...as well, and that is just to get under the cap.  

 

DE Jordan $25.7M

CB Lattimore $22.4M

LG Peat $18.3M

RB Kamara $16M

QB Winston $15.6M

 

Then you still have Michael Thomas at $13.3M, and because of his cap hit is expected by everyone to be released post June 1st.  Teams can use the Post June 1st designation twice ahead of June 1st, so the expectation is that the team will either use it for Peat or Winston.  

 

They probably won't restructure Davis as it will result in a massive dead money cap hit shortly down the road, so their only option there is an extension.  Lattimore will most likely be restructured, and probably Kamara too.  Both will bring some issues later, but they don't really have a choice because those issues are a little further down the road than the dead money issue Jordan restructure would cause.  

 

So yeah, the Saints are going to find a way to get Carr, but it still hurts the team now and in the future and the Saints will not have the cap room to further improve the team around Carr.  

 

The Saints are not the team that I would want our GM to pattern his cap strategy after.  They were way over the cap before paying Carr, now they got do all this just to get under the cap, then do more still to sign Carr.  And their cap situation isn't getting better anytime soon either, they will not be able to build the team up around Carr and will likely remain a middling team, which IMO is about the worst situation to be in.  I would rather tear it down and rebuild than be stuck as a middling team, getting middle to lower round draft picks, and no cap space to build outside the draft either.  

[MiltonWaddams]

Who dat? Oh, that’s just a mediocre quarterback, who won’t move the needle on a mediocre team. You can, however, learn some incredible eyeliner tips from him.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Dam!!  Was hoping he’d sign with the jets and soak up all their salary 

 

That will be Rodgers instead now.  That also eliminated one more good QB in AFC and specifically AFC East.  Not sure how much Rodgers really has left and how long he'll stay interested either.

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, nucci said:

because there is no such thing. Same with the Bills

 

11 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

That’s my point!

 

So a team who had a bad cap situation the last 2 years but found a way to sign players just to win 9 and 7 games respectfully is an example that the cap doesn't matter?  The Saints won 7 games this year and entered the offseason $30M over the cap, and they didn't even have a highly paid QB on the roster.

 

Not the example I would follow as a GM

[ngbills]

Good for Bills. Carr is a good player that would improve any team that does not have a qb like the jets or pats. 

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

So a team who had a bad cap situation the last 2 years but found a way to sign players just to win 9 and 7 games respectfully is an example that the cap doesn't matter?  The Saints won 7 games this year and entered the offseason $30M over the cap, and they didn't even have a highly paid QB on the roster.

 

Not the example I would follow as a GM

My point was that teams find a way to sign anyone they want. Didn't say they're good signings

[John from Riverside]

Derek Carr is a coach killer

[ColoradoBills]

25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

So a team who had a bad cap situation the last 2 years but found a way to sign players just to win 9 and 7 games respectfully is an example that the cap doesn't matter?  The Saints won 7 games this year and entered the offseason $30M over the cap, and they didn't even have a highly paid QB on the roster.

 

Not the example I would follow as a GM

 

The Saints had a great D last couple of years.  They got a lot of expensive UFAs they won't sign.

What people don't watch is the players they let walk every year, they only see the "signed" players.

 

Glad Carr went there and not to an AFC team.  I don't expect them to have a great team but in that weak division they will have a chance.

 

Agree, I would not use their model as a smart one.

[DrDawkinstein]

Makes me think Falcons trading for Jackson is even more definite now.

[NewEra]

32 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

You should be ecstatic with Carr going to the Saints. Rodgers will be 50 million and draft picks which will screw the Jets. Rodgers has a couple years left, if that.

Carr is Andy Dalton minus the legs-  he’s like a scared little boy playing a man’s game.  I’d rather they pay a crappy QB 40M+ than an all time great.  
 

That said- I don’t think they’ll give up that much for AR if they do pull the trigger.  Imo, Carr gives them zero chance to win a SB while Rodgers puts them in the conversation.  

32 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

That will be Rodgers instead now.  That also eliminated one more good QB in AFC and specifically AFC East.  Not sure how much Rodgers really has left and how long he'll stay interested either.

“Good” qb. 
 

I have higher standards I suppose

[The Jokeman]

19 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Derek Carr is a coach killer

I can't even name the Saints' HC without googling it, so does it matter?

[Ghs24mike]

19 minutes ago, nucci said:

My point was that teams find a way to sign anyone they want. Didn't say they're good signings

Exactly. Cap is “real” in the same way Santa is real.

 

kids/ casual fans think it’s real, you see him in movies and at the mall, but GM’s (parents) know the truth. 
 

Spend a little cash over the cap to buy nice presents for your kids in full, if it’s “too expensive” maybe you throw it on a credit card to pay it down (extensions). 
 

All while knowing 100% that your income (salary cap, tv deals) are all going up in the future. 
 

ALWAYS a way to make any deal they want happen. 

[Captain Hindsight]

50 minutes ago, mushypeaches said:

 

Well, they're welcome to Derek Carr and all of the underwhelming mediocrity that he's sure to bring...

 

If you don't have a Top 10 QB and you're not ready to win NOW, you as the GM are committing an ad of idiocy if you aren't just drafting a QB and/or playing the young QB that you have.  Signing a mid-level vet like Carr does nothing except kick the can down the road

 

 

I mean, they are probably division favorites now since they have a mid level starter.

 

Carolina and Tampa are about to trot out warm bodies and Atlanta has Riddler  

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, nucci said:

My point was that teams find a way to sign anyone they want. Didn't say they're good signings

 

But you are only looking at that specific signing...you aren't looking at the players they lose as a result that same year or the next year or two.  You are not looking at all the other holes they don't fill because they had no room to improve the team after making all these cap maneuvers to sign one or two players.

 

The signing of that player is such a tiny part of the whole equation and does not mean that the cap has no impact elsewhere after they sign that player.  

[Albany,n.y.]

29 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I can't even name the Saints' HC without googling it, so does it matter?

It matters because it may have been a huge reason Carr signed with NO.  Dennis Allen was Carr's coach when he was a rookie and gave him his 1st starting job as a rookie.  For the record, the Raiders fired Allen after 4 games, but he may have left a positive impression on Carr. 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

It matters because it may have been a huge reason Carr signed with NO.  Dennis Allen was Carr's coach when he was a rookie and gave him his 1st starting job as a rookie.  For the record, the Raiders fired Allen after 4 games, but he may have left a positive impression on Carr. 

 

Not only that but Dennis Allen's entire pro career was with?!..... The Buffalo Bills.

[Low Positive]

34 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But you are only looking at that specific signing...you aren't looking at the players they lose as a result that same year or the next year or two.  You are not looking at all the other holes they don't fill because they had no room to improve the team after making all these cap maneuvers to sign one or two players.

 

The signing of that player is such a tiny part of the whole equation and does not mean that the cap has no impact elsewhere after they sign that player.  

This is a good point. The Bills signed Von Miller when that seemed impossible. The cost of Von Miller was losing Jerry Hughes. Then when Von went down, the Bills not only were missing him but also the production that Jerry Hughes gave them in 2021. It really showed against the Bengals (both times). 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

This is a good point. The Bills signed Von Miller when that seemed impossible. The cost of Von Miller was losing Jerry Hughes. Then when Von went down, the Bills not only were missing him but also the production that Jerry Hughes gave them in 2021. It really showed against the Bengals (both times). 

 

As much as I love Jerry, and was happy to see him have success in Houston, AJ Epenesa had more sacks last year (6.5) than Hughes had his last 3 seasons here (2, 4.5, 4.5). I agree we missed Jerry's heart and fire, but stats were whatever.

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, mushypeaches said:

 

Well, they're welcome to Derek Carr and all of the underwhelming mediocrity that he's sure to bring...

 

If you don't have a Top 10 QB and you're not ready to win NOW, you as the GM are committing an ad of idiocy if you aren't just drafting a QB and/or playing the young QB that you have.  Signing a mid-level vet like Carr does nothing except kick the can down the road

 

 

A bird in the hand...

If you're drafting a young QB, you are taking a chance at getting a bust, Carr is better than anyone the Saints could get at pick 29 (Philly has their original, higher pick).  

You can turn a team around in the 4 years Carr is signed for.  

It's a lot worse hoping to get a better QB than Carr at pick 29 and putting your job & the HC's job on the line with a guy 28 teams passed on.  

[BillsFan4]

It was reported that Carr was actually leaning toward the Jets but the Jets wanted to wait and see what happens with Rodgers.

 

Hopefully Rodgers just stays in Green Bay now! Or retires.

[DrDawkinstein]

22 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

A bird in the hand...

If you're drafting a young QB, you are taking a chance at getting a bust, Carr is better than anyone the Saints could get at pick 29 (Philly has their original, higher pick).  

You can turn a team around in the 4 years Carr is signed for.  

It's a lot worse hoping to get a better QB than Carr at pick 29 and putting your job & the HC's job on the line with a guy 28 teams passed on.  

 

All this, especially in that Division where Carr is now the best QB out of the 4 teams.

[Alphadawg7]

33 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

This is a good point. The Bills signed Von Miller when that seemed impossible. The cost of Von Miller was losing Jerry Hughes. Then when Von went down, the Bills not only were missing him but also the production that Jerry Hughes gave them in 2021. It really showed against the Bengals (both times). 

 

Jerry Hughes also had 9 sacks this year for Houston after we cut him.  

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Jerry Hughes also had 9 sacks this year for Houston after we cut him.  

 

His best year, by far, since 2014. Wonder what the difference was.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, Special K said:

 

That’s my point!

Go to Spotrac and look at their future years void money.....they wont have as much cap as other teams unless they use more void money.  Also, they don't do whatever they want they have let a lot of good players, all pro players go at various times.  Its true you can manipulate but it is not true there is not such thing as the cap.   You can take from future years for today.  How much of that you do is the question.

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

His best year, by far, since 2014. Wonder what the difference was.

 

 

 

I can answer that:  No Frazier.  Since joining the Bills, Hughes has played 10 seasons, 4 before Frazier, then 5 with Frazier, then 1 this past year in Houston.  In the 5 seasons not with Frazier Hughes averaged 8 sacks a season (including 3 with 9 or more).  In 5 seasons with Frazier, he averaged 4 sacks a season, only getting over 5 once (7 in 2018).    

[Matt_In_NH]

25 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

It was reported that Carr was actually leaning toward the Jets but the Jets wanted to wait and see what happens with Rodgers.

 

Hopefully Rodgers just stays in Green Bay now! Or retires.

Or Carr's agent put that out there while negotiating with New Orleans.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I can answer that:  No Frazier.  Since joining the Bills, Hughes has played 10 seasons, 4 before Frazier, then 5 with Frazier, then 1 this past year in Houston.  In the 5 seasons not with Frazier Hughes averaged 8 sacks a season (including 3 with 9 or more).  In 5 seasons with Frazier, he averaged 4 sacks a season, only getting over 5 once (7 in 2018).    

 

I knew you were gonna say that! And tough to argue with.

[Gregg]

Ian Rapoport on Twitter: "The #Saints & Derek Carr agreed on a 4-yr deal for $150M with $100M in total guarantees, per me & @MikeGarafolo. He gets $70M effectively fully guaranteed ($60M at signing, another $10M in Year 3 vesting after Year 1). Carr structures his deal to accommodate Saints’ cap issues. https://t.co/vs6qaBh7rg" / Twitter

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

 

Well, they're welcome to Derek Carr and all of the underwhelming mediocrity that he's sure to bring...

 

If you don't have a Top 10 QB and you're not ready to win NOW, you as the GM are committing an ad of idiocy if you aren't just drafting a QB and/or playing the young QB that you have.  Signing a mid-level vet like Carr does nothing except kick the can down the road

 

 

Idk. I’d like to see what a QB like Carr can do away from the dumpster fire called the Raiders to a team w/ decent weapons.

[US Egg]

The Saints winning their division now looks more promising.

 

Were he to have landed with the Jets, the same would be said for them.

 

That kind of talk wasn’t expected so soon looking back before 2022 season started.

 

 

[colin]

40 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I can answer that:  No Frazier.  Since joining the Bills, Hughes has played 10 seasons, 4 before Frazier, then 5 with Frazier, then 1 this past year in Houston.  In the 5 seasons not with Frazier Hughes averaged 8 sacks a season (including 3 with 9 or more).  In 5 seasons with Frazier, he averaged 4 sacks a season, only getting over 5 once (7 in 2018).    

 

he also averaged those bad numbers w frazier while posting up big pass rush win rate numbers.

 

obv, w miller getting all kinds of sacks in teh same bills scheme (albeit not the whole season), it shows houghs could be better, but ya our coaches were simply not getting max production out of our players.

 

really hope mcd feels huge heat to show out on d as a coach next year.

[Virgil]

I just read 100 mil guaranteed, with 60 being given to him at signing.  

 

This has to set the bar for any other QB contract, including Jones and Geno.  I would argue they both performed better with less surrounding talent than Carr.