Pressure is on McBeane - PFT discussion

[Thrivefourfive]

In free agency and the draft they will get offensive linemen and receiver(s). The question will be will they be the right players and will the staff coach them up properly.
 

 

[Thrivefourfive]

22 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

For 5 years since acquiring Josh, 60% of cap expenditure has gone to defense.  If Beane & Sean want to keep their jobs for the next 5 years those numbers need to flip immediately. Or they will divide and eventually lose the locker room. You know Josh & Stefon are already pissed.

It’s sad. You’re right, but this goes against every instinct they possess as football people. We might need to come to grips that the writing is already on the wall here. Diggs is already making more noise than any Brady WR ever did, INCLUDING RANDY FREAKING MOSS! I don’t think JA is going to be able to carry the defense first company line for McBeane like Brady did for Belichick for all those years. 

[uticaclub]

4 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

It’s sad. You’re right, but this goes against every instinct they possess as football people. We might need to come to grips that the writing is already on the wall here. Diggs is already making more noise than any Brady WR ever did, INCLUDING RANDY FREAKING MOSS! I don’t think JA is going to be able to carry the defense first company line for McBeane like Brady did for Belichick for all those years. 

Nor should he. Belichick never made the stupid in-game decision McDermott makes and while he missed on his fair share of picks in the draft in 20+ years, the team was in a position to have a winning record without Brady, without Allen we are bottom 5 team. Diggs & Allen should voice their displeasure to get some heat of Pegula to make changes. You don’t become a billionaire by settling for “good enough”

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, beebe said:

 

They said this about Bill Cowher. 

 

They said this about Tony Dungy.

 

They said this about Tom Coughlin.

 

They said it about these guys all at the exact same time!

 

Then Cowher broke through in 2005. Dungy broke through in 2006. Coughlin broke through in 2007. 

 

Then they moved on to Andy Reid. And now Andy has broken through twice.

 

The guys who experience super early success in getting their Super Bowl ring — the Sean McVays, the Mike McCarthys, the Doug Pedersons, the Sean Paytons — those guys are the outliers. The rest of the coaching world is subject to dealing with the odds, which are NEVER in their favor, bad variance and bad luck. 

 

Once again, those guys didn't have Allen.  If they had, they wouldn't have lasted nearly as long.  Reid would have won a SB with Allen in Philly.  Hell, a bunch of our teams from 2000 - 2016 would have at least "made the playoffs" with Allen, perhaps done better than we have therein.  

 

I don't think that Cowher, Dungy, or Coughlin were stupid enough to produce a "13 Seconds" or whatever kind of "defense" we were playing against Cinci.  IDK, maybe it was the Participation Ribbon Defense or something.  But can you imagine Coughlin having done that?  LOL, I can't, not ever, even as a rookie coach.  

 

When you post the #1 or #2 Defense, and then go into the  playoffs and do those things, it strongly suggests that you're out of your league in the playoffs.   When you allow that same defense to allow 27 points and 412 Yards to Cinci, 36 points and 488 Yards to KC in regulation, 24 points and 472 Yards to the Colts led by Rivers, and 38 points and 439 Yards to the Chiefs, etc., then it suggests that you're out of your league.  

 

The Cinci D allowed an average of fewer than 17 PPG in three playoff games this season.  

KC allowed an average of 20 PPG  against Jax & Cinci.  

 

The Bengals and their 6th and 17th ranked Defense this and last season have allowed an average of fewer than 19 PPG in their 7 playoff games the last two seasons.  

KC and their 16th and 8th ranked Defense this and last season have allowed an average of 26.5 PPG in their 6 playoff games.  

We and our 2nd and 1st ranked Defense have allowed an average of over 29 PPG in our four playoff games this and last season, including a 17 point game against NE which has no offense.  Then of course "13 Seconds" and our "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot D" against Cinci.  

 

Again, if Allen weren't here, we wouldn't have even made the playoffs under McD & Beane much less won the division or a single playoff game.  I mean LMAO, can you imagine what we'd have been like over the past five or six seasons with Peterman, Barkley, or Keenum.  LOL  What, an average of 6 wins/season?  

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

Bills fans massively overstate the offensive line issues.  The bigger issue is that Josh tends to be a slow decision maker.  The difference between how quickly Burrow got rid of the ball compared to Allen when they played was striking.

 

Singletary, Cook, and Moss all averaged over 4.5 YPC, so they can clearly run block.  They may not be great in pass protection, but they are much better than they're made out to be on here.  Anyone who thinks swapping out a few linemen is suddenly going to make a huge difference is delusional.

 

Which of our OL-men would you say are individually good?  

 

 

[B-Man]

 

[beebe]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

This is flat out wrong.

 

 

Since realignment in 2002, there's been 109 coaches hired. 

 

54 of them have NEVER made the playoffs.

 

Of the 55 that have made the playoffs, only 38 of them have won a playoff game. 

 

Only 16 of those who have made the playoffs have a winning playoff record. 

 

Doug Marrone (2-1) is one of the 16 coaches.

 

Rex Ryan (4-2) is another. 

 

Only eight of the 109 have won a Super Bowl. 

 

Most coaches are failures. 

 

Two coaches who aren't failures: Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. 

 

They've won eight of the last 20 Super Bowls. 

 

One coach is in Buffalo's division - and dominated with the greatest QB of all time. The other is in their conference - and is dominating with arguably the second greatest QB of all time. 

 

Let's stop acting like this is easy. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by beebe

[PBF81]

24 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Belichick never made the stupid in-game decision McDermott makes ... 

 

Can you imagine Belichick doing what we did on the KO and the last couple of plays in the "13 Seconds" game.  

 

Or in our "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot D" game vs. Cinci this year.  

 

LOL  

 

I can't see any competent coach allowing any of that.  

 

It's great that we have a character-oriented chime monkey as a Head Coach, that's all fine and dandy, but when you conduct "13 Seconds" and "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot," you draw the kind of attention to yourself that is occurring now.  That's on you.  Also, not coming clean in press conferences, and then preaching accountability, BUT, when it's your own coordinators that need to be held to account you do nothing except fire some poor slob coach who was missing his starting players for much of the season, yet still had them playing well, ... I mean are we to take that seriously?   LOL  

 

But I have a hunch that he's got a lot more power than he should by design.  I mean name one other head coach in modern history that got to choose his own GM?  And it makes no sense that in being able to do so, that the GM you hire has the ability to fire you.  Why do we think that that GM also came from Carolina.  LOL   Maybe there is one, I don't know of any though.  Belichick kind of is as he's his own GM, but he's also won 6 SBs and it didn't take him 10 or 15 years of head coaching to do it.  

 

If there is one then I suspect that it was a coach that earned that privilege.  McD didn't earn that.  I suspect that it's going to take Pegula to make the appropriate changes, but I'm not sure he's up to the task these days.  

 

13 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

 

Since realignment in 2002, there's been 109 coaches hired. 

 

54 of them have NEVER made the playoffs.

 

Of the 55 that have made the playoffs, only 38 of them have won a playoff game. 

 

Only 16 of those who have made the playoffs have a winning playoff record. 

 

Doug Marrone (2-1) is one of the 16 coaches.

 

Rex Ryan (4-2) is another. 

 

Only eight of the 109 have won a Super Bowl. 

 

Most coaches are failures. 

 

Two coaches who aren't failures: Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. 

 

They've won eight of the last 20 Super Bowls. 

 

One coach is in Buffalo's division - and dominated with the greatest QB of all time. The other is in their conference - and is dominating with arguably the second greatest QB of all time. 

 

Let's stop acting like this is easy. 

 

That would make more sense in the context of this conversation if you listed the QBs that all of those coaches had.  

 

Allen is a generational talent.  Let's make that exercise easy.  Of those coaches inferred, how many had a QB Allen's caliber or even close?  

 

Let's start there.   

 

Belichick coincidentally made the playoffs and won a SB the very same season that Mo Lewis made his QB change for him, since he couldn't do it.  

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by PBF81

[LABILLBACKER]

26 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

It’s sad. You’re right, but this goes against every instinct they possess as football people. We might need to come to grips that the writing is already on the wall here. Diggs is already making more noise than any Brady WR ever did, INCLUDING RANDY FREAKING MOSS! I don’t think JA is going to be able to carry the defense first company line for McBeane like Brady did for Belichick for all those years. 

I don't care what their personal instincts are anymore.  What Brady did to cover up Bill's reluctance to surround him with amazing weapons was phenomenal. Josh is a great qb. Maybe the most athletic qb to ever come to Buffalo.  But as others have accurately said he is prone to the occassional brain fart. He can't absorb a HC hell bent on selecting mostly defensive people. This is where Beane has to step in and say enough. We're giving JA 60% of future assets. If you don't like that Sean then there's the door.

Edited February 24, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[78thealltimegreat]

7 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Didn't the Bengals get blown out by the Browns this past year.

Yes they were absolutely trucked by the Jacoby Brissette lead Browns right before their winning streak this belief the Bengals are some kind of juggernaut is ridiculous they are really good in close games. Heck they played a 1 score game with Malik Willis and Tennessee. 
The Bills just had a Murphys Law game at the absolute worst time.

52 minutes ago, Billl said:

 

Bills fans massively overstate the offensive line issues.  The bigger issue is that Josh tends to be a slow decision maker.  The difference between how quickly Burrow got rid of the ball compared to Allen when they played was striking.

 

Singletary, Cook, and Moss all averaged over 4.5 YPC, so they can clearly run block.  They may not be great in pass protection, but they are much better than they're made out to be on here.  Anyone who thinks swapping out a few linemen is suddenly going to make a huge difference is delusional.

So what you’re saying is you want Allen to just take a checkdown every play like Burrow does gotcha. 

[uticaclub]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I don't care what their personal instincts are anymore.  What Brady did to cover up Bill's reluctance to surround him with amazing weapons was phenomenal. Josh is a great qb. Maybe the most athletic qb to ever come to Buffalo.  But as others have accurately said he is prone to the occassional brain fart. He can't absorb a HC hell bent on selecting mostly defensive people. This is where Beane has to step in and say enough. We're giving JA 60% of future assets. If you don't like that Sean then there's the door.

while Walker, Amandola, Branch, etc where never phenomenal talents, they were productive & reliable in the offense. The same cant be said for McKenzie, Davis, Kumerow. Yes, thet flashed but thats it

[WideNine]

7 hours ago, FireChans said:

KC has also drafted majority defense.

Philly too, although in fairness I would not be focused on offense and OL help if I had Philly's OL.

 

It is not unique to the Bills to use early draft capital on defense, but striking out with those high end defensive picks where you have mainly found rotational talent or players that may be on a 4-5 year learning curve before they peak is not going to cut it.

 

High draft needs to equate to higher impact quickly while those guys are on cheap rookie deals.

 

Only OL investment I recall in the early rounds was Ford and we know how that went. Needs to be better when trading up like that.

 

Jury is still out on Brown and Doyle.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by WideNine

[Billl]

29 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

So what you’re saying is you want Allen to just take a checkdown every play like Burrow does gotcha.

Josh Allen AYA in 2023: 7.7

Joe Burrow AYA in 2023: 7.6

 

Josh Allen AYA in the divisional round: 5.21

Joe Burrow AYA in the divisional round: 7.83

 

So what you're saying is that you just make up whatever narrative fits your agenda, gotcha.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Billl

[PBF81]

17 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

 

Since realignment in 2002, there's been 109 coaches hired. 

 

54 of them have NEVER made the playoffs.

 

Of the 55 that have made the playoffs, only 38 of them have won a playoff game. 

 

Only 16 of those who have made the playoffs have a winning playoff record. 

 

Doug Marrone (2-1) is one of the 16 coaches.

 

Rex Ryan (4-2) is another. 

 

Only eight of the 109 have won a Super Bowl. 

 

Most coaches are failures. 

 

Two coaches who aren't failures: Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. 

 

They've won eight of the last 20 Super Bowls. 

 

One coach is in Buffalo's division - and dominated with the greatest QB of all time. The other is in their conference - and is dominating with arguably the second greatest QB of all time. 

 

Let's stop acting like this is easy. 

 

OK, so I took a few of the top TD producing career QB/Coach combos and here's what's up.  

 

Holmgren inherited a 4-12 team made the playoffs in seasons 2-5 going to the NFC CG in his 4th and winning a SB in his 5th, all with Favre.  

 

Belichick, who had been 5-13 with Bledsoe in NE and 36-44 over five seasons in Cleveland, 41-57 total, had his Asst. OC Mo Lewis bench Bledsoe and put Brady in, and won the SB immediately in his 7th season.  Before that he had no QB even approaching Allen's talents.  

 

Dungy made the playoffs in four of his first 6 seasons in Tampa with three different QBs.  Dilfer, Shaun King, and Brad Johnson.  Imagine if he had Allen.  Then he went to Indy, where he made the playoffs all 7 seasons that he was there, went to the AFC CG in his 2nd season there, and won the SB in his 5th season, with Manning.  He won the SB with the 23rd ranked D.  

 

Sean Payton won a SB with Brees as his QB in his 4th season as a Head Coach.  

 

Mike McCarthy inherited a 4-12 team with a well-past prime Favre, and with Rodgers starting his third season, McCarthy won the SB in his 5th season with Rodgers.  

 

People are comparing Reid with McNabb to these guys, but put any of those QBs or Allen on Reid's Eagles back then and he wins one or two.  As it was he inherited a 3-13 team, went to the playoffs 10 times, four times to the NFC CG and once to the SB, with McNabb and Vick.  Put Allen or any of the above on those five teams and I'd say he comes way with two or three SB wins.  

 

Did any of those coaches do something as egregious as "13 Seconds"?  Or leave their defense in the end zone sipping tea against the Bengals?  LOL 

 

McD has had 5 seasons, and unlike the above, he's now regressing, and, he's had top defenses.  

 

Whatever the situation is, he's created it.  His only notable playoff season was two years ago in 2020.  He's lost in the Divisional Round in the two seasons since.  Again, this is his and Beane's mess.  Firing the Safeties Coach who had Hyde out all season and Poyer between out and hobbled, LOL, is hardly ante-ing up on grabbing the bull by the horns in the accountability department.  

 

 

[PBF81]

32 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

What Brady did to cover up Bill's reluctance to surround him with amazing weapons was phenomenal. Josh is a great qb. Maybe the most athletic qb to ever come to Buffalo.  But as others have accurately said he is prone to the occassional brain fart. He can't absorb a HC hell bent on selecting mostly defensive people. This is where Beane has to step in and say enough. We're giving JA 60% of future assets. If you don't like that Sean then there's the door.

 

Allen's easily the most athletic QB to come to Buffalo, he may be the most athletic QB in NFL history.  He's definitely in the conversation.  Kelly wasn't as athletic, perhaps Kemp or another was close, but they weren't as good as Allen is otherwise. 

 

See my post above about Brady.  Belichick wouldn't have replaced Bledsoe with Brady if Mo Lewis hadn't made that decision for him.  Then on top of it he kicks us in the nuts by trading Bledsoe, one of the worst playoff QBs of all-time, to us.  Everyone said he was nuts to trade in the division, I said he was genius at the time.  LOL  

 

Here's my thing with Allen and his brain-farts as you put it, we don't know how he'd be playing if he had an offensive line that was better than a bunch of journeymen 1 and 2 year signees, changing significantly every single season since he's been here, or with decent overall direction otherwise.  I'd like to reserve final judgement on Allen's ultimate potential until I see him play with the same OL (for the most part) for at least two seasons, and with play-calling and competent coaching otherwise where he doesn't have to not only overcome the absence of a running game, but the defensive lapses of allowing 30-some points regularly in the playoffs either.  

 

 

[tuckan]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

Josh Allen AYA in 2023: 7.7

Joe Burrow AYA in 2023: 7.6

 

Josh Allen AYA in the divisional round: 5.21

Joe Burrow AYA in the divisional round: 7.83

 

So what you're saying is that you just make up whatever narrative fits your agenda, gotcha.

Why the difference between regular season and playoff game?  Could it be that the Bills defense stunk?  I saw Josh running for his life.  Not sure exactly what you saw.  The offensive line is substandard by any metric.

[boater]

Reading all the negative tripe in this thread causes nausea.

 

You wouldn't know the Bills finished 13-3.

 

My God.. how spoiled these fans have become.

[Dopey]

4 hours ago, beebe said:

 

 

Since realignment in 2002, there's been 109 coaches hired. 

 

54 of them have NEVER made the playoffs.

 

Of the 55 that have made the playoffs, only 38 of them have won a playoff game. 

 

Only 16 of those who have made the playoffs have a winning playoff record. 

 

Doug Marrone (2-1) is one of the 16 coaches.

 

Rex Ryan (4-2) is another. 

 

Only eight of the 109 have won a Super Bowl. 

 

Most coaches are failures. 

 

Two coaches who aren't failures: Bill Belichick and Andy Reid. 

 

They've won eight of the last 20 Super Bowls. 

 

One coach is in Buffalo's division - and dominated with the greatest QB of all time. The other is in their conference - and is dominating with arguably the second greatest QB of all time. 

 

Let's stop acting like this is easy. 

And it took Reid 2 decades to get his first. 

[Dopey]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Tomlin has 2 rings to keep secure. Who knows if clappy will ever snif one.

Tomlin has 2 SB rings? 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think there is less pressure than the media claims.

 

Top 5 GM, top 5 coach. Won’t be easy to replace. 

[Dopey]

11 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

Do you think Mcd is still too slow to adapt mid season or  this braint trust has gone too far with the belief of having our players grow and get better..Maybe just another trait of being too safe?

 

I was thinking about the Hines trade. He was traded for on November 1 and saw little to no action in his first few games.  Meanwhile  McCaffrey was on a plane learning the playbook and involved right away. I know they are not on the same level of talent  but it seemed like a  awfully long time to figure out a way to get Hines involved. 

 

Maybe Sims is right and we need to be more open to brining guys in like a K Toney. We always find some reason to say nah we don’t need a guy like that but on the flip side the Chiefs are saying yeah another weapon for Mahomes. Anytime I hear a Wr is available you can bet the Chiefs are seriously looking into them. 
 

Veach right now is taking Beanes lunch money. Maybe time to get a bit more out of the comfort zone? I don’t know I’m just spitballing thoughts.. this off-season still feels about as depressing as Beanes PC. 
 

I want a SB! 

 

 

When I read your he bolded, my first thought was we lost to Minny at the halfway point and went on to win 8 in a row. Including a playoff win. We’re 4-3 in the playoffs the past three seasons. He hasn’t won a SB, I get it, but damn. 

 

[chongli]

12 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

who?

 

 

12 hours ago, bobobonators said:

Which “better” coaches have achieved  more with less and been fired. Im dying to see this list you come up with. 

 

12 hours ago, colin said:

 

brian billick, marty shotty, reid in philly, many more if you include coordinators who got sacrificed.

 

Also Art Shell, who was fired from the Oakland Raiders after the '94 season after two consecutive winning seasons, and after having 4 of 6 winning seasons and 3 playoff seasons total, including an AFCCG appearance in 1990.

Edited February 25, 2023 by chongli

[Nihilarian]

27 minutes ago, boater said:

Reading all the negative tripe in this thread causes nausea.

 

You wouldn't know the Bills finished 13-3.

 

My God.. how spoiled these fans have become.

Seriously! It is ridiculous to think that some Bills fans think that a wave of the hand finds a new HC like an offensive genius in Andy Reid.

 

Buffalo has a tough task to beat the Chiefs to get homefield and now the Bengals are up there too. The 2022 Buffalo Bills faced many difficulties this season. snowstorms that caused a home game to be played in Detroit...Bills players needing help to be dug out of snow just to get to the airport...having to wait to be able to go home because of all the snow...a Buffalo Bills player having literal heart attack on the field during a game...so many injuries during the season. 
 

Losing their top pass rusher in Von Miller was a huge letdown for the defense and it really showed up in their last game against the Bengals. Needing to start a rookie corner who was in and out of the lineups due to injuries. So many variations of DBs playing in different games and yet that Buffalo defense still came in 2nd in points allowed, #6 in yards allowed against some very good teams while losing only 3 games all season. 

 

For the love of god doesn't anyone recall what it was like with the likes Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Saint Doug, Wrex Ryan, Mike Mularky, Gregg Williams...so much losing! 

 

Buffalo finally found a GM / HC that are as good as (if not better) then Marv Levy, Bill Polian and it seems like so many Bills fans are constantly complaining. Only difference is McD and Beane didn't inherit a HoF QB in Kelly, HoF pass rusher in Bruce Smith. They have needed to draft players late in the draft. These men are first timers at their respective jobs and I have no problem in allowing them time to build the team. 

 

McD has been the Buffalo HC and the Bills have been in the playoffs 5 of those 6 seasons. Won the division 3 years in a row now. Yes, the 2022 Buffalo Bills were preseason favorites to win the SB. Ya know what? STUFF happens and those were things that the GM, HC can't control. McD was 4th in the coach of the year voting for a real reason. 

 

Bills fans need to stop thinking about changing the best HC/GM this franchise has seen since the 1990's. Start thinking about who they can draft, find free agents to help the team for 2023.  JMO

[WyoAZBillfan]

13 hours ago, colin said:

only the real extra positive people are still not openly questioning our FO and coaches (cover 1 guys are pretty pollyanna, but i bet they come around).

 

all im gonna say is better coaches have been fired from less stacked teams for better results.

Which coaches? Out of curiosity? I want to think TB for Gruden, but time is showing that to be a lucky fluke. Who are others? 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Seriously! It is ridiculous to think that some Bills fans think that a wave of the hand finds a new HC like an offensive genius in Andy Reid.

 

Buffalo has a tough task to beat the Chiefs to get homefield and now the Bengals are up there too. The 2022 Buffalo Bills faced many difficulties this season. snowstorms that caused a home game to be played in Detroit...Bills players needing help to be dug out of snow just to get to the airport...having to wait to be able to go home because of all the snow...a Buffalo Bills player having literal heart attack on the field during a game...so many injuries during the season. 
 

Losing their top pass rusher in Von Miller was a huge letdown for the defense and it really showed up in their last game against the Bengals. Needing to start a rookie corner who was in and out of the lineups due to injuries. So many variations of DBs playing in different games and yet that Buffalo defense still came in 2nd in points allowed, #6 in yards allowed against some very good teams while losing only 3 games all season. 

 

For the love of god doesn't anyone recall what it was like with the likes Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Saint Doug, Wrex Ryan, Mike Mularky, Gregg Williams...so much losing! 

 

Buffalo finally found a GM / HC that are as good as (if not better) then Marv Levy, Bill Polian and it seems like so many Bills fans are constantly complaining. Only difference is McD and Beane didn't inherit a HoF QB in Kelly, HoF pass rusher in Bruce Smith. They have needed to draft players late in the draft. These men are first timers at their respective jobs and I have no problem in allowing them time to build the team. 

 

McD has been the Buffalo HC and the Bills have been in the playoffs 5 of those 6 seasons. Won the division 3 years in a row now. Yes, the 2022 Buffalo Bills were preseason favorites to win the SB. Ya know what? STUFF happens and those were things that the GM, HC can't control. McD was 4th in the coach of the year voting for a real reason. 

 

Bills fans need to stop thinking about changing the best HC/GM this franchise has seen since the 1990's. Start thinking about who they can draft, find free agents to help the team for 2023.  JMO

This is a fair post. Let me add my perspective to it.

 

I don't think anyone is really saying McD or Beane are bad. Of course, they deserve credit for building a winning culture and consecutive playoffs appearences/division titles.

 

Comparing the previous coaches and past Bills failures vs the present isn't the logic or path I want to go down. It's really fruitless and kind of gives an impression of hey be satisfied with the winning. Be happy about making the playoffs. Of course, there is a kernel of truth to that thinking.

 

I myself was very happy with the early success and turnaround of the Bills team. Beane and McD were excellent at rebuilding and molding a winning culture. They absolutely deserve accolades for this. 

 

However, at some point the goalposts have moved. Maybe 2 or 3 years ago? Wouldn't you agree.

 

The Bills have their franchise QB whose developed into one of the best in the league. The last few years were absolutely windows to smell and or hoist that Lombardi Trophy. The winning the division and making the playoffs just weren't enough. Frankly, shouldn't be enough. This is where division amoung the fans start to arise. Be happy with its nice regular season record, winning the division, and one playoff win or wanting to make that Super Bowl appearance and or win it all. 

 

Imho, it's clear McD and Beane have turned around the franchise primarily because of Allen. Once again, they deserve high praise for this.

 

On the other hand, they have failed to progress the team. Many mistakes along the way has lead to many playoffs failures and early exits. Expectations weren't met.

 

Now we go into this year with several question marks. I think it's perfectly rational to start questioning and criticising McD and Beane. Imho, it's called accountability and as a fan I want more from this team. That doesn't mean I'm a troll or any less of a loyal fan. 

 

In short, McD and Beane deserve much credit as well as much criticism.

 

At some point, change can be a positive thing. Personally, I would have very much liked to see Fraizer gone. An upgrade to Dorsey certainly could have been on the table.

 

Coach McD probably deserves more time but honestly I'm losing my confidence that he can get it done. 

 

Hope that gives you a little different perspective. Thanks. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by newcam2012

[78thealltimegreat]

15 hours ago, balln said:

Blown out ? nah- just a one of those games against a div opp. They at least looked like they belong 

No they got their butt kicked 

[78thealltimegreat]

12 hours ago, beebe said:

 

Josh Allen's talent is not in dispute. But he's not the "generational" quarterback you think he is. Mahomes has outplayed him statistically every single season. Burrow has been a more consistent QB the last few years. Allen is obviously a great QB. But he's still error prone and has plenty of holes in his game that need work (mainly the turnovers).

 

the AFC QB tiers are: 

 

Tier 1 

Mahomes (maybe the greatest QB ever)

 

Tier 2 

Burrow

Allen 

 

Tier 3

Herbert

Watson 

Lawrence

Tua

Lamar

 

It's not crazy to think a few of the names in Tier 3 can advance to Tier 2 with continued imrpovement, a better supporting cast, or in the case of Lamar and Tua, better health.

 

Even aside from all that, the reason Josh Allen/Bills haven't broken through yet is because: 

 

2018 - josh allen stunk, the bills weren't good 

 

2019 - josh allen improved, but the bills were merely an above average team 

 

2020 - they ran into a superior Chiefs team led by a better QB, got outplayed badly in afc title game

 

2021 - they lost to an inferior Chiefs team due to bad luck, coaching meltdown 

 

2022 - they lost to an equal-ish Bengals team, but Bills never reached full potential due to bad health

 

I don’t know what more you want Allen to do the guy is responsible for 180 touchdowns in 5 years and he’s basically the Bills running game and short yardage offense. As for Patrick the turnover he had in the AFC championship game that allowed the Bengals to tie the game Allen would have gotten killed for from people like yourself. 
These comments make me wish after the Jets game when he suffered his UCL Sprain he should have just shut it down for the year and you would have seen the utter crap not named Diggs he plays with week to week.  

[Gunsgoodtime]

16 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Didn't the Bengals get blown out by the Browns this past year.

Further representation of the current state of the Buffalo Bills

4 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Seriously! It is ridiculous to think that some Bills fans think that a wave of the hand finds a new HC like an offensive genius in Andy Reid.

 

Buffalo has a tough task to beat the Chiefs to get homefield and now the Bengals are up there too. The 2022 Buffalo Bills faced many difficulties this season. snowstorms that caused a home game to be played in Detroit...Bills players needing help to be dug out of snow just to get to the airport...having to wait to be able to go home because of all the snow...a Buffalo Bills player having literal heart attack on the field during a game...so many injuries during the season. 
 

Losing their top pass rusher in Von Miller was a huge letdown for the defense and it really showed up in their last game against the Bengals. Needing to start a rookie corner who was in and out of the lineups due to injuries. So many variations of DBs playing in different games and yet that Buffalo defense still came in 2nd in points allowed, #6 in yards allowed against some very good teams while losing only 3 games all season. 

 

For the love of god doesn't anyone recall what it was like with the likes Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Saint Doug, Wrex Ryan, Mike Mularky, Gregg Williams...so much losing! 

 

Buffalo finally found a GM / HC that are as good as (if not better) then Marv Levy, Bill Polian and it seems like so many Bills fans are constantly complaining. Only difference is McD and Beane didn't inherit a HoF QB in Kelly, HoF pass rusher in Bruce Smith. They have needed to draft players late in the draft. These men are first timers at their respective jobs and I have no problem in allowing them time to build the team. 

 

McD has been the Buffalo HC and the Bills have been in the playoffs 5 of those 6 seasons. Won the division 3 years in a row now. Yes, the 2022 Buffalo Bills were preseason favorites to win the SB. Ya know what? STUFF happens and those were things that the GM, HC can't control. McD was 4th in the coach of the year voting for a real reason. 

 

Bills fans need to stop thinking about changing the best HC/GM this franchise has seen since the 1990's. Start thinking about who they can draft, find free agents to help the team for 2023.  JMO

The best they had since the 90s is not good enough.  The goal is to win the SB and there has been no indication that Beane and McDermott are capable of that.  In fact, it's quite the opposite.  If I told you Beane and McDermott could not take this team to a SB with Josh Allen as your QB and a top 5 defense would you hire them?  Absolutely not.  You would fire them and try to find someone who can.

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

This is a fair post. Let me add my perspective to it.

 

I don't think anyone is really saying McD or Beane are bad. Of course, they deserve credit for building a winning culture and consecutive playoffs appearences/division titles.

 

Comparing the previous coaches and past Bills failures vs the present isn't the logic or path I want to go down. It's really fruitless and kind of gives an impression of hey be satisfied with the winning. Be happy about making the playoffs. Of course, there is a kernel of truth to that thinking.

 

I myself was very happy with the early success and turnaround of the Bills team. Beane and McD were excellent at rebuilding and molding a winning culture. They absolutely deserve accolades for this. 

 

However, at some point the goalposts have moved. Maybe 2 or 3 years ago? Wouldn't you agree.

 

The Bills have their franchise QB whose developed into one of the best in the league. The last few years were absolutely windows to smell and or hoist that Lombardi Trophy. The winning the division and making the playoffs just weren't enough. Frankly, shouldn't be enough. This is where division amoung the fans start to arise. Be happy with its nice regular season record, winning the division, and one playoff win or wanting to make that Super Bowl appearance and or win it all. 

 

Imho, it's clear McD and Beane have turned around the franchise primarily because of Allen. Once again, they deserve high praise for this.

 

On the other hand, they have failed to progress the team. Many mistakes along the way has lead to many playoffs failures and early exits. Expectations weren't met.

 

Now we go into this year with several question marks. I think it's perfectly rational to start questioning and criticising McD and Beane. Imho, it's called accountability and as a fan I want more from this team. That doesn't mean I'm a troll or any less of a loyal fan. 

 

In short, McD and Beane deserve much credit as well as much criticism.

 

At some point, change can be a positive thing. Personally, I would have very much liked to see Fraizer gone. An upgrade to Dorsey certainly could have been on the table.

 

Coach McD probably deserves more time but honestly I'm losing my confidence that he can get it done. 

 

Hope that gives you a little different perspective. Thanks. 

Here is the thing. 

 

Point one! Now, think about what the 2022 season would have been like had OC Brian Daboll had stayed. That offense that allowed Allen to be perfect in the playoffs last year, destroying the Patriots 47-17. So awesome to see that!

 

(I wanted Frazier gone also. Alas, so many Bills fans just can't seem to let that 13 seconds go.) Look at what the team did this season with so many injuries, amazing job. 

 

Point two! Now, think if Von Miller hadn't suffered a season ending injury as did Micha Hyde. Plus, all the various injuries to so many players throughout the season. Losing the new slot WR Crowder so early in the season. Von Miller was brought in to be a closer and he still had 8 sacks in 11 games. Imagine what havoc he would have brought had he stayed healthy! 

 

Point three! The snowstorms! A Buffalo player having a heart attack on the field during a game and the HC knowing exactly the right thing to do in that situation.

 

Lastly, the players seem to lose focus for that Bengals game. I don't know why? Both the lines played poorly in the biggest home game of the season. Again, I don't know why?  

 

With... all... those... troubles the team still went 13-3!  The Buffalo offense that was #2 overall in the league only scored 10 points against the Bengals. A rookie OC? 

 

I look at this HC and GM and I know that they know what to do to fix the team.  I have faith that these men are the right men for the job in Buffalo. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

16 hours ago, Negan said:

Florio is right, another season of not making a Super Bowl and McDermott should be fired, probably Beane too

Will be a two years past due imo

[Gunsgoodtime]

13 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Florio said, and Simms said he didn't disagree, that if the Bills don't make a deep playoff run this season that there's a good chance Pegula cleans house with management and coaching.

We have a generational QB but we've only been the conference championship once. 

People actually disagree with this take? Really? I'm genuinely interested in hearing why many people don't agree with that. 

Evidently there is a large portion of the fan base that is happy with just making the playoffs, something that almost half of the teams in the league achieve every year

[newcam2012]

11 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Here is the thing. 

 

Point one! Now, think about what the 2022 season would have been like had OC Brian Daboll had stayed. That offense that allowed Allen to be perfect in the playoffs last year, destroying the Patriots 47-17. So awesome to see that!

 

(I wanted Frazier gone also. Alas, so many Bills fans just can't seem to let that 13 seconds go.) Look at what the team did this season with so many injuries, amazing job. 

 

Point two! Now, think if Von Miller hadn't suffered a season ending injury as did Micha Hyde. Plus, all the various injuries to so many players throughout the season. Losing the new slot WR Crowder so early in the season. Von Miller was brought in to be a closer and he still had 8 sacks in 11 games. Imagine what havoc he would have brought had he stayed healthy! 

 

Point three! The snowstorms! A Buffalo player having a heart attack on the field during a game and the HC knowing exactly the right thing to do in that situation.

 

Lastly, the players seem to lose focus for that Bengals game. I don't know why? Both the lines played poorly in the biggest home game of the season. Again, I don't know why?  

 

With... all... those... troubles the team still went 13-3!  The Buffalo offense that was #2 overall in the league only scored 10 points against the Bengals. A rookie OC? 

 

I look at this HC and GM and I know that they know what to do to fix the team.  I have faith that these men are the right men for the job in Buffalo. 

I hear you. I get your line of thinking. Much of your opinions can be justified and validated. 

 

I think my previous post addresses mostly what I wanted to say. 

 

I'd ask you to reflect and ask yourself this now that the season has ended.

 

Are you disappointed in the season?

 

Do you feel let down in anyway?

 

Was the season a success in your mind?

 

Did the team meet or exceed your expectations? 

29 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Further representation of the current state of the Buffalo Bills

The best they had since the 90s is not good enough.  The goal is to win the SB and there has been no indication that Beane and McDermott are capable of that.  In fact, it's quite the opposite.  If I told you Beane and McDermott could not take this team to a SB with Josh Allen as your QB and a top 5 defense would you hire them?  Absolutely not.  You would fire them and try to find someone who can.

Great response. 

11 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Evidently there is a large portion of the fan base that is happy with just making the playoffs, something that almost half of the teams in the league achieve every year

Bingo! 

[BobbyC81]

17 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

Do you think Mcd is still too slow to adapt mid season or  this braint trust has gone too far with the belief of having our players grow and get better..Maybe just another trait of being too safe?

 

I was thinking about the Hines trade. He was traded for on November 1 and saw little to no action in his first few games.  Meanwhile  McCaffrey was on a plane learning the playbook and involved right away. I know they are not on the same level of talent  but it seemed like a  awfully long time to figure out a way to get Hines involved. 

 

Maybe Sims is right and we need to be more open to brining guys in like a K Toney. We always find some reason to say nah we don’t need a guy like that but on the flip side the Chiefs are saying yeah another weapon for Mahomes. Anytime I hear a Wr is available you can bet the Chiefs are seriously looking into them. 
 

Veach right now is taking Beanes lunch money. Maybe time to get a bit more out of the comfort zone? I don’t know I’m just spitballing thoughts.. this off-season still feels about as depressing as Beanes PC. 
 

I want a SB! 

 

 

 

In my opinion, it makes little sense to implement offensive and defensive schemes that are difficult for your players to pick up.  You’re supposed to be making it difficult for the opponents.  If you can’t bring in a rookie or a vet from another team, and get him ready to play in a reasonable amount of time, something is wrong with your approach.

 

This is similar to the Golden State Warriors.  They have complicated offensive and defensive schemes.  After winning the title last season, due to salary cap issues, they let veteran players leave in free agency and expected recent draftees to fill the void.  It has failed miserably as they hover around a .500 record.  

[Nihilarian]

I'm not happy with just making the playoffs or just going 13-3. Which BTW is pretty damn good.

 

Look at the season. The Chiefs just won the super bowl for the 2nd time in 4 years and have been to the SB in 3 of the last 4. they are the ELITE cream of the AFC and NFL this season. That fearsome Eagles front four on their defense wrecked havoc all season and led the NFL in defensive sacks and takeaways. 

Yet, The Eagles sacked Patrick Mahomes 0 times in the SB!  yes...zero sacks! and managed only 5 QB hits on a hobbled Mahomes.

 

The Buffalo Bills played the Kansas City Chiefs in week 6 of the 2022 season, AT KC. Buffalo won the game, Sacked him 3x, hit him 9x and intercepted a non hobbled Mahomes 2x. 

 

A healthy Von Miller would have made a huge difference in that Cincy game and perhaps Buffalo is in the SB instead.  A rookie OC, Now think back to how Daboll looked in his first year as Bills OC. He had Peterman out there over Allen. 

 

My point here is the HC and GM are taking the blame for how the season ended and yet they can't control the injuries. The changes, distractions, trials, tribulations of the entire season. So many bad things happened over the course of this season and yet...13-3...and a shot.

 

 

[balln]

5 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I'm not happy with just making the playoffs or just going 13-3. Which BTW is pretty damn good.

 

Look at the season. The Chiefs just won the super bowl for the 2nd time in 4 years and have been to the SB in 3 of the last 4. they are the ELITE cream of the AFC and NFL this season. That fearsome Eagles front four on their defense wrecked havoc all season and led the NFL in defensive sacks and takeaways. 

Yet, The Eagles sacked Patrick Mahomes 0 times in the SB!  yes...zero sacks! and managed only 5 QB hits on a hobbled Mahomes.

 

The Buffalo Bills played the Kansas City Chiefs in week 6 of the 2022 season, AT KC. Buffalo won the game, Sacked him 3x, hit him 9x and intercepted a non hobbled Mahomes 2x. 

 

A healthy Von Miller would have made a huge difference in that Cincy game and perhaps Buffalo is in the SB instead.  A rookie OC, Now think back to how Daboll looked in his first year as Bills OC. He had Peterman out there over Allen. 

 

My point here is the HC and GM are taking the blame for how the season ended and yet they can't control the injuries. The changes, distractions, trials, tribulations of the entire season. So many bad things happened over the course of this season and yet...13-3...and a shot.

 

 

You put way too much stock on a week 5/6 game. Both teams are completely different down the stretch. KC was rolling and improving. Buffalo - and jerrry Sullivan was dead right - didn’t look like a Super Bowl offense. Even with Von Miller - cincy game doesn’t change. For the love of god - we play 10 yards off the ball - Burrow throws the ball within 1.5 seconds

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think there is less pressure than the media claims.

 

Top 5 GM, top 5 coach. Won’t be easy to replace. 

 

Internal pressure (as in chances Pegs fires them) I think you are correct. 

 

They'd have to miss the playoffs without Josh getting seriously hurt. And that isn't happening.

[Thrivefourfive]

21 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I don't care what their personal instincts are anymore.  What Brady did to cover up Bill's reluctance to surround him with amazing weapons was phenomenal. Josh is a great qb. Maybe the most athletic qb to ever come to Buffalo.  But as others have accurately said he is prone to the occassional brain fart. He can't absorb a HC hell bent on selecting mostly defensive people. This is where Beane has to step in and say enough. We're giving JA 60% of future assets. If you don't like that Sean then there's the door.

… I don’t think Beane can show McDermott the door. Do you think what you describe is going to happen?

[TheFunPolice]

Get ready for this kind of talk.

 

2022 was all about the run to the Super Bowl. 2023 is going to be (locally and nationally) about whether McDermott is good enough to take the Bills where they want to go. It has already started. 

 

It's the price of having a top 3 QB. You're supposed to win, and the spotlight gets brighter.

 

We said the same things about other coaches and teams for years. Now it's our team. 

 

The Bills have nothing to show for having 3 seasons of top 3 QB play. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jahnyc]

Hard to be critical when the team goes 13-3 with the injuries, weather related difficulties and the near tragic situation with Hamlin, but misjudgments by McBeane also contributed to our early exit in the playoffs.  I think McBeane overestimated the quality of our depth and when Miller, Hyde and D. Jones were injured, the defense struggled.  McBeane also counted on improvement and further development from Davis, Brown, Basham and Oliver.  It did not happen, and Brown seemed to regress.  Regarding free agency, Settle, Crowder and Saffold did not contribute at the hoped for levels.and it wouldn't be unreasonable to have a discussion about whether the money spent on Miller could have been allocated differently to address other team needs.

 

In hindsight, last year's offseason was a bit of a miss and I hope this offseason will prove to be more of a success.

[KOKBILLS]

17 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think there is less pressure than the media claims.

 

Top 5 GM, top 5 coach. Won’t be easy to replace. 

 

I hope most of the pressure is coming from inside both of them. Beane and McDermott have never come across as unintelligent to me. Ever...There's a needed gut check, and that's the big question right now IMHO. Can they be humble and self-scout to see the most obvious things? Because as good as they are, they got a lot wrong, and squandered some amazing Draft opportunities along the way. They have to get that fixed. They have to improve tactically on both sides of the ball...They have talent...They have plenty of talent if the holes are upgraded.

 

The top 5 HC and GM have to prove they are top 5 this off-season if they want to win a SB...They have to get the formula right...We'll see...

Edited February 25, 2023 by KOKBILLS

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:58 AM, H2o said:

I'm not saying McDermott is the coach we need long term, but look at Andy Reid in Philly. He won 6 division titles, 10 Playoff games overall, made 5 NFCC games, lost 3 NFCC games in a row, won the 4th of those NFCC games, and lost to the Pats in his only SB appearance. He then goes to KC, has a very talented group from FO to players, now has two Lombardi's, and is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time. 

 

The pressure is squarely on the FO and coaching staff to get this right though. Everyone on the outside looking in says the exact same things. Sports media, fans, everyone sees the Bills need OL help and more weapons for Josh. No QB in the NFL has achieved more with less. 

 

Completely agree with the example of Reid.  Who are you going to replace him with?  This isn't college where you can buy out some other coaches existing contract.  So your choice is another retread who recently got fired like was done with Rex Ryan, McCarthy, etc.  Or you take a flyer on a new and upcoming OC or DC and it were a DC again this board would likely blow up.  But more of these up and comers don't exceed as a HC than succeed.  Look at he ones in Carolina and AZ.  Even McVay the boy wonder is a bit questionable as has been up and down a bit.

 

Maybe every ten years or so a situation comes around where a guy like Sean Payton becomes available, but Denver had to give up draft picks to get him and his record other than one SB win his record isn't much better than McDermott's.  Will be interesting to see how Payton does in Denver as very limited draft picks the next two seasons . By the time they can get young guys up to speed, Wilson even if Payton can straighten him out, may be too old.